• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Rogue One: A Star Wars Story |OT| They rebel - SPOILERS

Status
Not open for further replies.
watershed said:
You seem to have a problem with people holding a different opinion than you about movies. Why do you take it personally? Not everyone is gonna like Rogue One. Why be a dick about it?
Click to expand...

He's not commenting on the differentiating opinion, but at how it's expressed. (Edit: as Bobby says in his reply above.)

I'll cheerfully admit that I'm not well versed in the language of cinema, so I totally relate to people who struggle at articulating why certain things worked and don't in their film criticism. I really struggle with it (even more so when it comes to music). Everything I know I got from my community college intro to film class, 15 years ago.

I try to be careful tossing out terminology, though, specifically because I know I don't know what I'm talking about if I try to. B-grade / b-movie means something pretty specific, and it's not a bad thing, so it's reasonable that a film critic who is versed in both the language of film and film criticism would take exception to it being used to mean something it doesn't. (Though I do suggest taking your foot of the gas just a touch Bobby. :p )
 
brandonh83 said:
I didn't really notice, so I suppose ignorance is bliss. Vader seemed great to me in this movie, like Edwards was like oh god can't fuck Vader up, if I fuck everything else up whatever but I gotta do Vader justice.
Click to expand...
And I might be completely wrong about his helmet. I can't wait for this to be out on video so I can re-watch that scene and try to pinpoint what about his suit bugged me. There might not be any difference at all to what we've seen prior, and I'm just being weird.

brandonh83 said:
I think he's just having a conversation and agreeing/disagreeing like the rest of us :p

Some are just outspoken! I've been downright negative on this movie since I've seen it, but I keep coming back to see why others are liking it so much. And I still mostly disagree with the praise. At least after listening to the soundtrack I've warmed up to THAT, so that's something.
Click to expand...
Same boat. I truly don't understand why people enjoyed this movie, so I'm in here trying to discern and understand.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
I don't have a problem with people having a different opinion at all. There's tons of examples up in here of me not having problems. Hell, it's pretty easy to discern as such mostly because the wide array of opinions opposite of mine don't even go addressed!

I do however, respond to dumb shit when it's coughed up. That was (legitly) dumb shit.

It's not PERSONAL.
Click to expand...
Its not unreasonable to say Rogue One is a b-tier SW. Its a non-saga film with an overall creative team that is b-tier or at least not the cream of the crop team they put together for TFA. Its a stand alone film to tell a side story and some aspects of the movie reflect this very much.
 
Man that was phenomenal.

Characters were all great and we got a god's honest thrill ride space battle in Star Wars that makes me want to go play Rogue Squadron again.

Only thing I could have wanted more of was perhaps another few moments of Vader wrecking shit. Perhaps in his TIE on the way to the ship or something like that.

Honestly no part of that movie I didn't like. Like even in TFA I would probably fast-forward through that tentacle monster chase scene on the freighter but everything about Rogue One I would watch again.
 
GhaleonEB said:
He's not commenting on the differentiating opinion, but at how it's expressed. (Edit: as Bobby says in his reply above.)

I'll cheerfully admit that I'm not well versed in the language of cinema, so I totally relate to people who struggle at articulating why certain things worked and don't in their film criticism. I really struggle with it (even more so when it comes to music). Everything I know I got from my community college intro to film class, 15 years ago.

I try to be careful tossing out terminology, though, specifically because I know I don't know what I'm talking about if I try to. B-grade / b-movie means something pretty specific, and it's not a bad thing, so it's reasonable that a film critic who is versed in both the language of film and film criticism would take exception to it being used to mean something it doesn't. (Though I do suggest taking your foot of the gas just a touch Bobby. :p )
Click to expand...

Better-Call-Saul-Mike-Ehrmantraut-Yes-Nodding-Reaction-Jonathan-Banks.gif


watershed said:
Its not unreasonable to say Rogue One is a b-tier SW. Its a non-saga film with an overall creative team that is b-tier or at least not the cream of the crop team they put together for TFA. Its a stand alone film to tell a side story and some aspects of the movie reflect this very much.
Click to expand...

If he had actually said any of that, in a manner even half as thoughtfully as you just did, I wouldn't have mocked him, just like I'm honestly having a good-faith back & forth with you. But he didn't, not even close. Again, it's not personal. I'm mocking how ridiculous that shit sounds trying to read it.
 
Vincent Alexander said:
And I might be completely wrong about his helmet. I can't wait for this to be out on video so I can re-watch that scene and try to pinpoint what about his suit bugged me. There might not be any difference at all to what we've seen prior, and I'm just being weird.
Click to expand...

What I liked most despite the events chronologically occurring right before IV was that I truly felt "HaydenVader" from the execution. I liked seeing him without the helmet in the scene ala V, like he's still receiving some sort of treatment, and he felt more nimble and energetic in that brutal attack scene than any scene in the OT. The closest thing being the best moment in V during the jump scare when he goes fuckin ham on Luke.
 
opoth said:
You know that after Episode IX is done and Thrawn has been properly re-inserted into canon, they are going to shoehorn the plot of the Zahn trilogy as best as they can into the new canon using CGI for the leads once the technology progresses further. All of Lucas' dreams come true.
Click to expand...
During the production of the prequel trilogy, didn't Lucas say he would never use CGI to replace (human) actors? I may be misremembering ...
 
Man Chirrut is like one of my favorite Star Wars characters now and normally I really hate that archetype.
(especially for a character with little development.)
 
Crosseyes said:
Man that was phenomenal.

Characters were all great and we got a god's honest thrill ride space battle in Star Wars that makes me want to go play Rogue Squadron again.

Only thing I could have wanted more of was perhaps another few moments of Vader wrecking shit. Perhaps in his TIE on the way to the ship or something like that.

Honestly no part of that movie I didn't like. Like even in TFA I would probably fast-forward through that tentacle monster chase scene on the freighter but everything about Rogue One I would watch again.
Click to expand...

I was afraid they were going to lean on Vader too much as a crutch and he'd have way too many scenes...I thought he was portrayed perfectly in that regard.

That's one of the things I love about it....Vader and the Death Star were menacing as fuck and it was great to see that again.
 
Watched it again. I dont think vader's "arnold" line was that goofy. In fact it was made a lot less goofy by the awesome force choke sound effects and music being used.
 
Vincent Alexander said:
And I might be completely wrong about his helmet. I can't wait for this to be out on video so I can re-watch that scene and try to pinpoint what about his suit bugged me. There might not be any difference at all to what we've seen prior, and I'm just being weird.
Click to expand...

The helmet is ANH style but he's wearing the inner robes under his breastplate rather than over like he does in ESB.
 
brandonh83 said:
lol, try the score out on its own. It's really great, seriously. It did nothing for me during the film but I think it was implemented poorly.
Click to expand...
All the talk about this film's score really reminds me of this YouTube video on music in Marvel movies. There might have been a thread on this on GAF already, but very accurate video. In this particular instance, A Rogue One falls into the category of a film with a good score that wasn't well utilized.

sphagnum said:
The helmet is ANH style but he's wearing the inner robes under his breastplate rather than over like he does in ESB.
Click to expand...
Thank you. This was driving me nuts. I was wondering why it seemed so long at the end, and at one point I did wonder if it just wasn't tucked in. Couldn't be certain though. Been driving me nuts.
 
I thought the Jyn and Krennic confrontation left A LOT to be desired. She's just like I'M JYN ERSO DAUGHTER OF GALEN ERSO AND I WILL HAVE MY VENGEANCE IN THIS LIFE OR--

Then Cassian blasts him or whatever and that's that. They were both pretty badass characters so some kind of shootout or something would have been great. It just felt so limp to me. And what the fuck happened to the TIE rising up in the background when she's out on the railing? The trailer promised some kind of crazy Jyn vs TIE thing but it didn't happen.

I dunno, maybe the trailers just put my expectations in one place and decided to frequently go into other places that felt lackluster to me.
 
brandonh83 said:
lol, try the score out on its own. It's really great, seriously. It did nothing for me during the film but I think it was implemented poorly.
Click to expand...
I think it really depends how much one loves JW's particular sound. For me this score is serviceable but with very few highlights and a number of disappointing cues and themes. In particular I found Jyn's Theme to be pretty standard Giacchino emotional writing with no standout melody. The new Imperial Theme is a terrible pastiche of the actual Imperial March. Its almost as if they wanted a parody of the Imperial March so that they didn't have to pay royalties to someone. The best theme was the one for Donny Yen. It had real emotional weight and had a Star Wars-esque sound to it. The score is in the ballpark of Star Wars while not quite hitting the right notes.
 
Razgriz-Specter said:
Man Chirrut is like one of my favorite Star Wars characters now and normally I really hate that archetype.
(especially for a character with little development.)
Click to expand...
He was great.
I was already disappointed that the U-Wing expansion for the X-Wing Minis game didn't come with a Chirrut crew card (it has three unique pilots in Heff Tobber, Bodhi Rook, Cassian Andor, and unique crew cards in Jyn Erso, Cassian Andor, Baze Malbus, Bistan, and Bodhi Rook), but now after seeing the character on screen, I am REALLY disappointed that there is no Chirrut crew card.
 
brandonh83 said:
I thought the Jyn and Krennic confrontation left A LOT to be desired. She's just like I'M JYN ERSO DAUGHTER OF GALEN ERSO AND I WILL HAVE MY VENGEANCE IN THIS LIFE OR--

Then Cassian blasts him or whatever and that's that. They were both pretty badass characters so some kind of shootout or something would have been great. It just felt so limp to me. And what the fuck happened to the TIE rising up in the background when she's out on the railing? The trailer promised some kind of crazy Jyn vs TIE thing but it didn't happen.

I dunno, maybe the trailers just put my expectations in one place and decided to frequently go into other places that felt lackluster to me.
Click to expand...
Their final confrontation really bugged me. Mostly because Jyn coughed up the fact that her father put a flaw in the plans. Like "Damn, Jyn! You're confident you're about to win!" Because if he lived and told everyone, rebels about to be fucked by her big mouth. There was no need for her to talk shit that stupidly.
 
Just saw it. I thought it was great and the X wings destroying those ATATs and the Star Destroyers crashing into each other was awesome, but outside of that the space battles didn't do much for me. Vader fucking everyone up at the end was sick too.
 
watershed said:
I think it really depends how much one loves JW's particular sound. For me this score is serviceable but with very few highlights and a number of disappointing cues and themes. In particular I found Jyn's Theme to be pretty standard Giacchino emotional writing with no standout melody. The new Imperial Theme is a terrible pastiche of the actual Imperial March. Its almost as if they wanted a parody of the Imperial March so that they didn't have to pay royalties to someone. The best theme was the one for Donny Yen. It had real emotional weight and had a Star Wars-esque sound to it. The score is in the ballpark of Star Wars while not quite hitting the right notes.
Click to expand...

There is a standout melody and I think Michael does a lot of standout melodies. Completely disagree about the new Imperial motif though... damn.
 
sphagnum said:
The helmet is ANH style but he's wearing the inner robes under his breastplate rather than over like he does in ESB.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure that's incorrect. They went to great lengths to make sure it was identical to the ANH costume. The photos of the costume that were released ahead of time definitely had the inner robes over the top.
 
Vincent Alexander said:
Their final confrontation really bugged me. Mostly because Jyn coughed up the fact that her father put a flaw in the plans. Like "Damn, Jyn! You're confident you're about to win!" Because if he lived and told everyone, rebels about to be fucked by her big mouth. There was no need for her to talk shit that stupidly.
Click to expand...

Glad you brought that up, I had forgotten, like why would she say that to him? Made zero sense.
 
brandonh83 said:
I thought the Jyn and Krennic confrontation left A LOT to be desired. She's just like I'M JYN ERSO DAUGHTER OF GALEN ERSO AND I WILL HAVE MY VENGEANCE IN THIS LIFE OR--

Then Cassian blasts him or whatever and that's that. They were both pretty badass characters so some kind of shootout or something would have been great. It just felt so limp to me. And what the fuck happened to the TIE rising up in the background when she's out on the railing? The trailer promised some kind of crazy Jyn vs TIE thing but it didn't happen.

I dunno, maybe the trailers just put my expectations in one place and decided to frequently go into other places that felt lackluster to me.
Click to expand...
The biggest problem to me is that Jyn gets robbed of her revenge upon him. He killed both her mother and father and in the end seems to defeat her as well until Cassian intervenes. That should have been her victory but the script took it away from her. I would have been fine with them working together to defeat Krennic but just to hand it to Cassian felt wrong.
 
Underwhelming. Lack of Jedi hurt this even more than I thought it would. CGI characters looked terribad. Really hated the lack of a crawling intro and lack of traditional Star Wars theme song. I get that this is a side story but I don't give a fuck.

I was left with the same empty feeling of disappointment I had after episode I.
 
Just got home. Drive home wasn't bad despite DOT saying to stay off the roads lol.
Enjoyed it, liked the action, Vader, and the end. Don't have a big desire to rewatch soon though like I did TFA. Would rewatch next time I watch a New Hope probably.

Also I might have missed a couple lines and thought they were looking to get a Jedi when Jimmy Smitz organa went to get Leia and almost thought he was going to find Ahsoka lol.
 
golem said:
The biggest problem to me is that Jyn gets robbed of her revenge upon him. He killed both her mother and father and in the end seems to defeat her as well until Cassian intervenes. That should have been her victory but the script took it away from her. I would have been fine with them working together to defeat Krennic but just to hand it to Cassian felt wrong.
Click to expand...

You know, especially where she and the rest die. Her victory was getting the plans, granted. But the emotional level of her involvement revolved around her father and revenge against Krennic. It just played out, again, so limp. And for anyone that's going to argue "well not everything needs some kind of fight scene," fuck that. It's Star Wars. I like Star Wars because of things like heroes versus villains. And this was completely pathetic. Compare it to Rey pulling the saber away from the snow and Kylo and proceeding to kick his ass in one of the best saber duels in the series.
 
golem said:
The biggest problem to me is that Jyn gets robbed of her revenge upon him. He killed both her mother and father and in the end seems to defeat her as well until Cassian intervenes. That should have been her victory but the script took it away from her. I would have been fine with them working together to defeat Krennic but just to hand it to Cassian felt wrong.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying but this wasn't a revenge flick. It was about Jyn finding herself.
brandonh83 said:
You know, especially where she and the rest die. Her victory was getting the plans, granted. But the emotional level of her involvement revolved around her father and revenge against Krennic.
Click to expand...
This is a deliberate, fundamental misreading of the movie. The emotional crux of the movie is her finding herself and completing her father's work by stealing the plans to the death star. Not revenge against Krennic.
 
brandonh83 said:
There is a standout melody and I think Michael does a lot of standout melodies. Completely disagree about the new Imperial motif though... damn.
Click to expand...
If I understand it correctly the new Imperial Theme is partly Krennic's theme which accounts for why it is not quite the Imperial March. But I think the score would have been better had the real Imperial Theme been used in those moments. On Jyn's theme, it has a really predictable chord progression, so similar to Giacchino's theme for Yorktown in Star Trek Beyond and the musical textures in the suite arrangement on the OST are all over the place. The 4 week writing schedule probably hurt the quality of the score but this is more a standard Giacchino score than a great Star Wars score. I wish we could hear what Desplat wrote for Rogue One.
 
golem said:
The biggest problem to me is that Jyn gets robbed of her revenge upon him. He killed both her mother and father and in the end seems to defeat her as well until Cassian intervenes. That should have been her victory but the script took it away from her. I would have been fine with them working together to defeat Krennic but just to hand it to Cassian felt wrong.
Click to expand...

Agreed, though everything about Krennic felt wrong as if his character went through a lot of changes. The entire third act he has nothing to do, he just stands in the control room shouting orders and then is like, "fuck it, I'll handle this personally even though its never been established I'm a physical threat to anyone." It's as if the film couldn't decide if Krennic was this cold tactician, who achieved results and power through fear and manipulation ala Tarkin or some badass Imperial Agent like a Boba Fett. Thus, he ends up switching between both as the plot demands.
 
The Librarian said:
I get what you're saying but this wasn't a revenge flick. It was about Jyn finding herself.

This is a deliberate, fundamental misreading of the movie. The emotional crux of the movie is her finding herself and completing her father's work by stealing the plans to the death star. Not revenge against Krennic.
Click to expand...
No one said this was a revenge flick. However, that doesn't mean she isn't allowed some revenge.
 
watershed said:
If I understand it correctly the new Imperial Theme is partly Krennic's theme which accounts for why it is not quite the Imperial March. But I think the score would have been better had the real Imperial Theme been used in those moments. On Jyn's theme, it has a really predictable chord progression, so similar to Giacchino's theme for Yorktown in Star Trek Beyond and the musical textures in the suite arrangement on the OST are all over the place. The 4 week writing schedule probably hurt the quality of the score but this is more a standard Giacchino score than a great Star Wars score. I wish we could hear what Desplat wrote for Rogue One.
Click to expand...

There is definitely a hint of Yorktown in Jyn's theme, but it wasn't enough to dominate it and the theme is beautiful. I was down on the score when I saw the movie but after I got the soundtrack I feel way better about it. You're right too about the new Imperial theme, I guess it's meant to be more of a Krennic theme. But I think it's very powerful and memorable.
 
Back-In-Black said:
Agreed, though everything about Krennic felt wrong as if his character went through a lot of changes. The entire third act he has nothing to do, he just stands in the control room shouting orders and then is like, "fuck it, I'll handle this personally even though its never been established I'm a physical threat to anyone." It's as if the film couldn't decide if Krennic was this cold tactician, who achieved results and power through fear and manipulation ala Tarkin or some badass Imperial Agent like a Boba Fett. Thus, he ends up switching between both as the plot demands.
Click to expand...

Which is a shame because the film had a very easy justification for this. Throughout the film, he's constantly abused and disrespected, so if this culminated in a sense of "I need to do something, ANYTHING, to stop whats going on", it would have been easy to justify it as his breakdown as shit just keeps getting thrown in his face. Instead, it's like you said, he just felt exasperated with the incompetence going on in the control room, only to meet a random girl who he finds out is the daughter of the guy he abused, before he gets shot in the back by someone completely random and unrelated to him.

It's anticlimactic as fuck.
 
Veelk said:
Which is a shame because the film had a very easy justification for this. Throughout the film, he's constantly abused and disrespected, so if this culminated in a sense of "I need to do something, ANYTHING, to stop whats going on", it would have been easy to justify it as his breakdown as shit just keeps getting thrown in his face. Instead, it's like you said, he just felt exasperated with the incompetence going on in the control room, only to meet a random girl who he finds out is the daughter of the guy he abused, before he gets shot in the back by someone completely random and unrelated to him.

It's anticlimactic as fuck.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure it can be called anticlimactic when that wasn't the focus of the movie; the movie wasn't building to any sort of confrontation between the two. It portrayed their final meeting as a happenstance, basically, which is why I wasn't too bothered that Cassian shot him in the end.
 
Rawr Its Ry said:
Keep hearing meh opinions on 3d, do see it in imax or rpx tho, saw it last night on non 3d rpx and gonna see it again like that in a few hours
Click to expand...

Oh sorry lol, I framed the question wrong. It was just aimed at people that thought Tarkin looked like shit.

I saw it on IMAX 3d, looked great, but I don't remember anything in 3d that stood out compared to the opening Star Destroyer shot from TFA.

So IMAX def. The 3d, not required.

One or two theatres here have it in 4dx though lol. I guess you can smell Jyn and the rebel scum.
 
Holy shit that last act though.

So well done. You can tell someone really put time in to figure out how a battle in space with shields would go down. and that damn Hammerhead Ship! It's one of those odd one offs in warfare that probably isn't practical in most scenarios, but finds itself in use in the odd battle.

Seeing that one Star Destroyer slice through the other is still repeating in my mind. So great! Just seeing beloved Star Wars ships rendered in current movie technology was worth it for me alone.
 
The Librarian said:
I'm not sure it can be called anticlimactic when that wasn't the focus of the movie; the movie wasn't building to any sort of confrontation between the two. It portrayed their final meeting as a happenstance, basically, which is why I wasn't too bothered that Cassian shot him in the end.
Click to expand...

You mean like how at the very beginning of the movie when he murders her mother, kidnaps her father, and tells his troops to find the stupid girl? Or when Jyn recalls a flashback of her dad working with Krennic, his figure ever present in the background? Or when she calls out, "Papa!" on Edou only for him to get blown up beside Krennic and then as Krennic gets into his shuttle he pauses and looks back at the corpse of Arso and Jyn whilst silhouetted in red? Or when it appeared he killed Cassian, the dude she was forming a connection with?
 
brandonh83 said:
You know, especially where she and the rest die. Her victory was getting the plans, granted. But the emotional level of her involvement revolved around her father and revenge against Krennic. It just played out, again, so limp. And for anyone that's going to argue "well not everything needs some kind of fight scene," fuck that. It's Star Wars. I like Star Wars because of things like heroes versus villains. And this was completely pathetic. Compare it to Rey pulling the saber away from the snow and Kylo and proceeding to kick his ass in one of the best saber duels in the series.
Click to expand...
I enjoyed Rogue One a lot more than TFA, but I can see how some would find it a bit light on adventure... But light on action? The action in this blows anything in TFA away completely.
 
The Librarian said:
I'm not sure it can be called anticlimactic when that wasn't the focus of the movie; the movie wasn't building to any sort of confrontation between the two. It portrayed their final meeting as a happenstance, basically, which is why I wasn't too bothered that Cassian shot him in the end.
Click to expand...

Jyn's motivation for being part of the rebellion is for retribution for how her family has suffered. Krennic killed her mother and kidnapped her father. I feel that this is already a problematic storyline because Jyn's motivations are all by proxy. She wants to fight the empire based on how they've made her family suffer, rather than her. Her utility to the Rebellion is based on her connection to her father. Even the death star plans, their all just a product of her father whose work she's trying to carry to fruition.

I would have rather had her have more direct involvement in the story, but for what it is, it isn't badly written. However, when you have the climax of the film and you place her in front of the architect of all her life's pain...the murderer of her mother, the taker of her father, the catalyst for the death star that destroyed the city with her old mentor in it, there ought to be some closure to her character for that.

Instead, she just tells him her name and while he's looking stupid at her, he gets shot in the back by the whole "only mostly dead" cliche. I may not have even caught this if I hadn't watched Moana recently, where they talk about how in their first draft,
Maui was the one who returned the stone to the goddess. The writers eventually realized how this robbed moana of her narrative arc's climax, since this was her movie
. ANd more than anyone else, this was supposed to be Jyn's story. So when she doesn't get to close the book on the guy who made her life hell, yeah, I feel it's anticlimactic.
 
I'm personally having a hard time getting into Jyn Erso's theme beyond the "Your Father Would Be Proud" track. I don't know what it is, perhaps the melody isn't as strong as it could be?

"Hope" is probably my favorite track in the score, right next to "Guardians of the Whills Suite".

The Librarian said:
I'm not sure it can be called anticlimactic when that wasn't the focus of the movie; the movie wasn't building to any sort of confrontation between the two. It portrayed their final meeting as a happenstance, basically, which is why I wasn't too bothered that Cassian shot him in the end.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if the film had consistently pit them against each other throughout the movie and had them personally antagonize each other, then I would've felt cheated out of the way Cassian shot Krennic.

While I would've liked to see Jyn stomp on him, regardless... it works well as it is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

George Lucas and James Cameron on Star Wars Rebels and Terrorists
2
56
1K
kevboard replied
Star Wars: Eyes Like Stars announced
2
75
1K
AJUMP23 replied
Star Wars: Visions Volume 3
5
333
RagnarokIV replied
Andor S2 |OT| Remember Star Wars?
2 3 4 5
206
7K
AJUMP23 replied
George Lucas told an impossible story in Star Wars
2
79
3K
Randall365 replied
Top Bottom