I don't doubt that there'll be new games, but based on what's apparently being localised right now, there'll be a lot of ports. But well, that's only bad for Wii U owners, of which there aren't many.
If Nintendo went 3rd party, would the quality of their games drop?
- Thread starter Doosi
- Start date
I don't doubt that there'll be new games, but based on what's apparently being localised right now, there'll be a lot of ports. But well, that's only bad for Wii U owners, of which there aren't many.
LordRaptor
Member
Its amusing how people are happy to believe that upwards of 100 million Wii / DS owners will just leave console gaming entirely rather than move to X1 / Ps4, but that 10 million WiiU owners aren't already on PS4 / X1 and would definitely go buy a PS4 / X1 instead of move elsewhere or just stop console gaming.
Norse
Member
Only if they licensed out to other software developers. If they made the games themselves then I think quality would continue.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
I find it extremely hard to believe that the Wii U is the only console in the Wii U owner household.
Fox Mulder
Member
I'm pretty sure every company that went third party has suffered in some way.
Even if their games stay great, they'll release fewer titles and have less reasons to justify more niche games to help build a console library. No reason to fund stuff like Bayonetta 2.
Even if their games stay great, they'll release fewer titles and have less reasons to justify more niche games to help build a console library. No reason to fund stuff like Bayonetta 2.
Perhaps, but they're going to be severely enhanced ports, so that's not bad at all. If they were direct, then I'd agree.
However, this shouldn't be a point of contention. They need to fill the initial lineup while they work on the new titles. Every new device has a myriad of ports at the start of their life.
Linkstrikesback
Member
From sonys output? Uh, yeah, it definitely would. Come on now.
https://www.reddit.com/r/vita/comments/41cf1k/first_party_vita_game_list/
Presuming that's accurate - 11 titles, total. That's even fewer than I thought. Surely there are some others they missed on that Reddit page?
PdotMichael
Banned
It's pretty simple.
If Nintendo is stuck in their walled garden business model and only become third party because there is no money left for new hardware then, of course, the software output will suffer quite a lot. There isn't much to discuss.
But Nintendo shows that they aren't that stuck in that business model and I think Nintendo would abandon their old business model faster than some people would expect it. And the quality of their software output would be more releated to the people in charge of Nintendo than the fact that they went third party.
If Nintendo is stuck in their walled garden business model and only become third party because there is no money left for new hardware then, of course, the software output will suffer quite a lot. There isn't much to discuss.
But Nintendo shows that they aren't that stuck in that business model and I think Nintendo would abandon their old business model faster than some people would expect it. And the quality of their software output would be more releated to the people in charge of Nintendo than the fact that they went third party.
Schopenhauerian
Member
Also, for those who have been reading GAF longer than I have: in your estimation, among those who want Nintendo to go 3rd party, are there a lot of folks with 'skin in the game'?
Are there a lot of folks who have at least, on occasion or with at least some 'minimal' amount of regularity actually mentioned their positive opinions of one or more Nintendo games/franchises, outside of this Nintendo games are great, but they should go 3rd party frame?
Curious about impressions, from those who have been keeping up with these discussions over the years.
I can certainly understand this.
I can imagine that there are some folks who like Nintendo's games somewhat -- maybe even a great deal -- but for whom some other console (manufactured by Sony or Microsoft, perhaps) is simply indispensable.
Naturally those folks would prefer not to have to buy an additional, Nintendo-manufactured console, if at all possible.
Since all three companies have dabbled in third party moves, I don't think the quality has dropped. I do know that some of their more niche games will be exclusive to Japan or Asia.
Quality depends on skills and critical thinking, if Nintendo those qualities, it will serve them well.
Quality depends on skills and critical thinking, if Nintendo those qualities, it will serve them well.
Storm Kyleis
Member
As of now, about half of Nintendo's earnings come from hardware.
And game development costs money.
And game development costs money.
archreaper93
Member
You say that as if those are bad games.
But it also means no Pikmin, Star Fox, F-Zero, Metroid, Punch-Out, Sin & Punishment, Bayonetta, Wave Race, Advance Wars, Fire Emblem...
wonderful103
Member
Receipts.jpg
A third party Nintendo is a mobile Nintendo. Their investors would make sure of that.
Coffee Dog
Banned
There's no reason to think the various online shooters and open world games a third party Nintendo would be developing would be bad.
Stuff like pikmin would be dead as a doornail, however
Games like splatoon are all that would happen. Online multiplayer shooters are big sellers, and splatoon sold big.
Stuff like pikmin would be dead as a doornail, however
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
On the other hand, they'd have a much larger potential audience as a third party. How many gamers were interested in Bayonetta 2, but never bought it because they didn't want to buy a Wii U?
BTW, games like Bayonetta 2 utterly failed to bring gamers to Wii U, so I highly doubt Nintendo will take that sort of risk again regardless whether they're first party.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
I dont think thats accurate at all, they are probably in the red this gen from hardware.
CouchMaster
Member
Like I said, drop in quality is a result of them going bankrupt, not because they went third party. Of course no one would willingly give up hardware business if they're in good shape financially.
wonderful103
Member
Info is 3 years behind but it most certainly includes the first batch of wii u tanking. Good place to start:
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=740455
Edit: ah fuck it, people don't tend to pay attention unless you post charts sometimes. From that thread:
Nintendo did take that risk, yes. And correct, they wouldn't take that risk as thirdparty.
3Ds didn't do that bad.
Coffee Dog
Banned
There's a reason Bayo 2 for 360/PS3 got cancelled.
Schopenhauerian
Member
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
w101 is pretty 1st party my man
archreaper93
Member
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Considering we're talking about niche games, yes?
Sony published more then 50 games on the Vita. Out of those I would say 18 of those are niche games outside of rerelease.
I don't think the WiiU would be above that.
Honestly I don't think these "ports" will be bad for Wii U owners in the slightest.
archreaper93
Member
You're gonna use Bayo as an example? The game that was Nintendo exclusive BECAUSE it didn't do well as a third party game?
FarFromAnyGame
Banned
How is it possible to have even less variety than current Nintendo?
Only by being uninformed on what Nintendo outputs and then making a post about it on said lack of information...
Simple : Look at all the others third-party publishers.
They stopped taking losses on the Wii U almost two years ago. Every Wii U they've sold since, no matter how few, has been profit for them. That why they never dropped the price.
They'll still come out profitable this generation because they've been so conservative. The majority of their losses came from their massive internal expansion in Japan and Europe.
Hitman, Tomb Raider, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts rehashes, and Final Fantasy is not exactly variety. Only very recently did they add Neir, Star Ocean, and smaller games like I am Setsuna.
Neoleo2143
Member
Square-Enix's variety is pretty good.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Published isn't what I was talking about when I said it though- I would wonder how many of those Sony actually had a significant hand in development? Anywhere I can see the list of those titles sony published? I can only see just over 30 on the Wikipedia page under the "Sony Computer Entertainment" publishing brand, so I guess this is missing some if there are 50+, or there's another brand they use that I'm not seeing (admittedly, I've not looked at all).
That said, Nintendo published over 50 games on Wii U too.
Nintendo has built its entire company around exclusivity... Going 3rd party would be a huge change in its entire business model.
Investors are already disappointed that Nintendo isn't on mobile anyway.
You forgot pachislots and pachinkos! :^)
Investors are already disappointed that Nintendo isn't on mobile anyway.
LordRaptor
Member
The actual formula people still clinging to "Oh, they should go third party now as a choice, rather than if things got so bad that they have to" would be something like:
(gross software MSRP revenue * units sold) * (80% physical split * 50% physical retail publisher return) * (20% digital split * 70% digital return) > (net hardware revenue) + (licence fee revenue) + (80% physical split * 70% physical retail return) + (20% digital split * 100% digital return)
or with real numbers, 1 million first party software units sold as a platform owner, with an 80-20 physical retail to digital split of a $60 game:
Platform owner: ($33.6m physical sales) + ($12m digital sales) = $45.6 million
Non-platform owner = ($24m physical sales) + ($8.4m digital sales) = $32.4 million.
So excluding all hardware revenue and excluding all licencing fees, every game would need to sell ~ 40% more as a multiplatform just to match software revenue
(gross software MSRP revenue * units sold) * (80% physical split * 50% physical retail publisher return) * (20% digital split * 70% digital return) > (net hardware revenue) + (licence fee revenue) + (80% physical split * 70% physical retail return) + (20% digital split * 100% digital return)
or with real numbers, 1 million first party software units sold as a platform owner, with an 80-20 physical retail to digital split of a $60 game:
Platform owner: ($33.6m physical sales) + ($12m digital sales) = $45.6 million
Non-platform owner = ($24m physical sales) + ($8.4m digital sales) = $32.4 million.
So excluding all hardware revenue and excluding all licencing fees, every game would need to sell ~ 40% more as a multiplatform just to match software revenue
What was the last century you paid attention to Nintendo?
Linkstrikesback
Member
Also excludes the fact that a big advantage of being a hardware manufacturer is that other people also pay you to get their games on your system. Admittedly, not such a boon for Wii U, but I'm sure the 3DS third party sales were/are also still worth a lot to Nintendo.
LordRaptor
Member
Yes, "excluding licence fees and hardware revenue" is a huge chunk of cash that would need to be explained away.
A third party selling 'only' 500k on a Nintendo console equates to $9m revenue for Nintendo without them lifting a finger.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
I don't see why you're making the distinction between published and developed since it doesn't really matter. The conversation wasn't even about raw numbers but the variety of the WiiU first party games compared to The Vita's.
But here's the list of Sony developed games from the top of my head:
-Everybody's Golf 6
-Gravity Rush
-Uncharted Golden Abyss
-Unit 13
-Wipeout 2048
-Killzone Mercenaries
-Tearaway
-Soul Sacrifice
-Soul Sacrifice Delta
-Playstation All Star Battle Royale
-Little Deviants
-LittleBigPlanet Vita
-Motorstorm RC
-Sounds Shapes
-Oreshika Tainted Bloodlines
-Uncharted For for Fortune
-When Vikings attack
-Freedom Wars
-Destiny of Spirits
-Entwinned
-Honokun
And then there's the yearly MLB, some other digital games and the games they funded and published.
That's still at least less than half the first party Wii U output.
pretty done
Member
None of us are from the future so no one knows. If I had to guess the quality would probably go up because there wouldn't be gimmicks in the hardware they're developing for, inherently making the games better. Less gimmicks = better games.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Alright where did I say Sony developed more games for the Vita then Nintendo for the WiiU?
If you actually read my post you would know that it was never the argument.
What you're saying isn't even true since based on Linkstrikesback, published games aren't being counted so Bayonetta 2, Smash Bros, Hyrule Warriors, Mario and Sonic, Fatal Frame or Tokyo Mirrage aren't being counted.
I would like to see those 40 games Nintendo developed for the Wii U.
Well, you said that it wouldn't compare favourably. I would say that having more than the double of the opponent is more than favorable.
Not really, the whole reason for this discussion is flopping hardware e.g. WiiU.
No one with a brain would run around and suggest them to go 3rd party if their current console were the ps4.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Splatoon and Mario Maker.
MisterHero
Super Member
Another thread asked whether Nintendo was losing money by not exploiting F2P with their mobile games.
You are asking them to give up benefits of being able to define their market for conforming to another version of the market.
All I see are gamers digging their own graves by asking for 3rd party Nintendo. My outlook on 3rd-parties isn't positive either. The ones that want to survive will not jump to Xbox/PS like you want. It will be to mobile and mayyyybe PC.
You are asking them to give up benefits of being able to define their market for conforming to another version of the market.
All I see are gamers digging their own graves by asking for 3rd party Nintendo. My outlook on 3rd-parties isn't positive either. The ones that want to survive will not jump to Xbox/PS like you want. It will be to mobile and mayyyybe PC.
SporeCrawler
Member
Star Ocean is not a recent franchise
Info is 3 years behind but it most certainly includes the first batch of wii u tanking. Good place to start:
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=740455
Edit: ah fuck it, people don't tend to pay attention unless you post charts sometimes. From that thread:
I am going to quote this user because you seem to be ignoring them. Even in 2012 with the bomb of the Wii U, hardware sales still outdid software. It's an important part of Nintendo's business.
FarFromAnyGame
Banned
All of them have more variety than Nintendo...