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[golem]

Like what? We got new storm troopers, new ships, new planets, new vehicles, new bases, new weapons, new characters.

I'd argue the only time the old cannibalizes the new is with Tarkin and Krennic. Seemed like they were afraid of making Krennic too powerful and intimidating of a villain because it might diminish Tarkin and Vader's presence/role.

I never felt this "encroaching" that supposedly happened in this film.

This is what I mean by the old overshadowing the new:

Forest Whittaker does nothing in this movie. He is just there to make the 10 viewers of Clone Wars nerd out. He literally just stands there, hits play on a USB stick, and dies in this movie. What would have been different if the pilot went straight to Cassian, a character that actually matters in the whole movie and we could have gotten further insight into? They still would have needed Jyn to verify the message.

The scene on Mustafar. I know TPS reports are important but this isn't office space and I don't need to see Krennic go weeping to Vader about office politics. What was the point of that even? To find out Vader has a butler? Lol. It didn't affect anything in the story at all.

Cut those two scenes (and others) and add actual scenes with the new characters. Maybe then I would have cared when Jyn and Cassian caught the worst sun burn ever.

 

[matrix-cat]

I thought it was decent, though not something I'll be rushing to see again. I was cringing really hard at the first Darth Vader scene ("choke on your aspirations" isn't even a phrase; it's like they mixed up the movie's script with the one for the SNL skit next week or something), and I hated everything to do with Donnie Yen's character. He's not a Jedi, but he pulls off shit you'd call BS on even if an actual Jedi had done it. I liked Book of Eli as much as the next guy, but Star Wars doesn't need a plotpoint where believing in The Force super hard means you can kung fu two dozen Stormtroopers to death with a stick. When Tarkin showed up I thought they were going to show some restraint and only show him from behind, with his vague reflection in the Star Destroyer window, but then he did the big dramatic turn around to put his ridiculous cartoon face on display for all the world to see. Just awful.

But then the big climax was strong, so I came out of it feeling pretty positive. Didn't give a single shit about any of the paper thin main characters (honestly didn't even catch half their names), but, y'know, decent movie all up.

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

Speaking of Episode 3, did anyone else think it was a huge missed opportunity that Vader didn't go "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" like in Ep3, when he was standing at the empty cargo hold watching the ship take off with the plans?





......

no one?

Speaking of Episode 3 why didn't they throw cash at Ian Mcdiarmid to chew scenery for five minutes?

 

[Ishida]

They should CG in an older Hayden Christensen for the special edition.

Ooooh shiiiiet. That's even better.

Add some CGI dance scenes with sexy aliens on Saw's hideout.

 

[brandonh83]

It seems hypocritical to rag on Rogue One for fan service and elements from the Original Trilogy, but then forgive Force Awakens for having a "CLAP" moment every fifteen minutes (Falcon, Han and Chewie, Leia, Threepio, Artoo, Luke, etc.) Honestly Force Awakens was waaaay more guilty of this, Rogue One at least takes place immediately before A New Hope, so the classic elements aren't just expected, they HAVE to be there.

TFA was episode 7 of a so far 9 episode series. I look at it like a TV series. 7 having the "classic elements" is just as acceptable. It's not just that they're older things but that they're continuing the story. It's Episode 7, not a completely different thing.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

(Also if you want to call out RLM criticizing Rogue One for nostalgia pandering as hypocritical, a better example is Mike loving fucking Jurassic World, a film that spends half of its film time lubing up its dick and jacking off on screen with a poster of the first movie, has a pointless scene of finding literal merchandise from the first film and cumming over it, and then solves its major conflict by unleashing a walking incarnation of the first movie out of nowhere as a magical problem solver while it ejaculates)

 

[Lifejumper]

So was Vaders head in the Bacta Tank modeled after Hayden Christensen?

 

[brandonh83]

I can agree with Mike on Jurassic World at least.

 

[duckroll]

(Also if you want to call out RLM criticizing Rogue One for nostalgia pandering as hypocritical, a better example is Mike loving fucking Jurassic World, a film that spends half of its film time lubing up its dick and jacking off on screen with a poster of the first movie, has a pointless scene of finding literal merchandise from the first film and cumming over it, and then solves its major conflict by unleashing a walking incarnation of the first movie out of nowhere as a magical problem solver while it ejaculates)

Hey I enjoyed Jurassic World.

 

[Ishida]

So was Vaders head in the Bacta Tank modeled after Hayden Christensen?

Highly doubt it. We barely see anything, really...

 

[brandonh83]

Hey I enjoyed Jurassic World.

But it shows stuff from the first movie so it's terrible.

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

(Also if you want to call out RLM criticizing Rogue One for nostalgia pandering as hypocritical, a better example is Mike loving fucking Jurassic World, a film that spends half of its film time lubing up its dick and jacking off on screen with a poster of the first movie, has a pointless scene of finding literal merchandise from the first film and cumming over it, and then solves its major conflict by unleashing a walking incarnation of the first movie out of nowhere as a magical problem solver while it ejaculates)

To this day I think Mike was on drugs or more drunk than usual when he made that episode. That disgusted look from Jay when he says it was a GREAT! movie is hilarious.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I can agree with Mike on Jurassic World at least.

Hey I enjoyed Jurassic World.

I walked out of Jurassic World thinking, "Hey, that had some fun action scenes and I guess I liked it more than 2 and 3," and then proceeded to get angrier about how smugly stupid it was the more I thought about it, to the point that the second time I watched it I was in disbelief that I ignored so much crap in it.

But it shows stuff from the first movie so it's terrible.

It's not even just that, it's that the plot and writing is so... stupid, characters do nonsensical shit for no reason other than to make the dinosaur plot go forward, the devilsaurus is a stupid thing, and the whole time it's trying to have its cake and eat it too by acknowledging "Well GOLLY this sure is a bad or silly idea! *wink wink*" but then they do it straight faced anyway.

 

[btrboyev]

A lot of people seem to hate the Leia scene.

The last two minutes was the Vader scene with Leia.

 

[duckroll]

I walked out of Jurassic World thinking, "Hey, that had some fun action scenes and I guess I liked it more than 2 and 3," and then proceeded to get angrier about how smugly stupid it was the more I thought about it, to the point that the second time I watched it I was in disbelief that I ignored so much crap in it.

I came out of Jurassic World thinking "they promised dinosaurs terrorizing humans in a park and that's exactly what I got, fun times!" and proceeded not to think about it much ever again and never watched it again. So it's still good to me!

 

[Rydeen]

TFA was episode 7 of a so far 9 episode series. I look at it like a TV series. 7 having the "classic elements" is just as acceptable. It's not just that they're older things but that they're continuing the story. It's Episode 7, not a completely different thing.

More time passed between Return of the Jedi and Force Awakens than between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope, and even less had changed. Hell, they reverted to the status-quo of a "new" Empire and "new" Rebellion even with the Republic existing just so they could throw Storm Troopers, Tie Fighters and X-Wings in when those vehicles should've been scrapped decades ago and progress should've been made. Didn't see a lot of Naboo Starfighters and Republic shuttles in the Original Trilogy, why should the next movie set 30 years later still be using the same vehicles? I know the real reason why, but in-universe it makes no sense.

 

[Sanjuro]

I cared more about Jimmy Buffett dying than most characters in Rogue One.

 

[Skux]

People are mad about it referencing other parts of the series? That's kind of the whole point of the film. A prequel can't exist without a sequel. If this film was the first Star Wars movie ever released it would be completely incoherent.

 

[brandonh83]

More time passed between Return of the Jedi and Force Awakens than between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope, and even less had changed. Hell, they reverted to the status-quo of a "new" Empire and "new" Rebellion even with the Republic existing just so they could throw Storm Troopers, Tie Fighters and X-Wings in when those vehicles should've been scrapped decades ago and progress should've been made. Didn't see a lot of Naboo Starfighters and Republic shuttles in the Original Trilogy, why should the next movie set 30 years later still be using the same vehicles? I know the real reason why, but in-universe it makes no sense.

That doesn't change the fact that it's called Star Wars Episode 7. They started a new trilogy carrying from the sixth episode but it's not a completely separate entity.

Like how the prequels ended setting up 4 directly. This is the reverse. It's continuing the story while introducing new elements.

 

[LionPride]

Honestly, how are people on the internet(and only on the internet) upset at the Vader joke? Shit was A1

 

[Burt]

I walked out of Jurassic World thinking, "Hey, that had some fun action scenes and I guess I liked it more than 2 and 3," and then proceeded to get angrier about how smugly stupid it was the more I thought about it, to the point that the second time I watched it I was in disbelief that I ignored so much crap in it.

This is exactly how I felt about The Force Awakens

Except my terminus was realizing that it was just JJ's Star Trek: Into Darkness algorithm tweaked and applied to Star Wars, which helped me notch down my expectations and enjoy it for the blithe popcorn flick it is.

 

[zeemumu]

Speaking of Episode 3, did anyone else think it was a huge missed opportunity that Vader didn't go "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" like in Ep3, when he was standing at the empty cargo hold watching the ship take off with the plans?





......

no one?

He should've done his "No...No!" from RotJ special edition

 

[brandonh83]

You guys just hate movies

 

[Ether_Snake]

Honestly, how are people on the internet(and only on the internet) upset at the Vader joke? Shit was A1

Probably people who saw too much Star Wars outside the OT movies. That line was typical Vader.

 

[Rydeen]

That doesn't change the fact that it's called Star Wars Episode 7. They started a new trilogy carrying from the sixth episode but it's not a completely separate entity.

Like how the prequels ended setting up 4 directly. This is the reverse. It's continuing the story while introducing new elements.

I get that, my point is that why RLM feels the need to complain about Rogue One having the classic elements when it ends immediately before A New Hope starts, but Force Awakens gets a pass? I'm not saying the movies are wrong, I'm saying their criticism is wrong.

 

[Sanjuro]

I think Jurassic World is probably a good comparison to Rogue One. I kind of left with the same reaction, but more disappointed in Rogue One due to attachment/higher bar to the franchise.

 

[AfroLuffy]

RLM is completely wrong on this film. They called the last two minutes of this film embarrassing which is mind blowingly bad as far as opinions go.

It comes down to ones tolerance for pandering. Some fans really love seeing those old characters again. Others feel insulted that references and callbacks are constantly fed as a cheap emotional appeal to nostalgia in place of creating new, memorable characters with unique stories of their own. For the later type of fan, myself included, the final sequence was just the shitty cherry on top. I mean, I love Darth Vader, but isn't his story done? When he showed up in the RO trailer, I actually shook my head -- isn't it time for Star Wars fans to put away their old toys and get some new ones? The RLM guys were absolutely right about how limited the SW universe really is.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

This is what I mean by the old overshadowing the new:

Forest Whittaker does nothing in this movie. He is just there to make the 10 viewers of Clone Wars nerd out. He literally just stands there, hits play on a USB stick, and dies in this movie. What would have been different if the pilot went straight to Cassian, a character that actually matters in the whole movie and we could have gotten further insight into? They still would have needed Jyn to verify the message.

The scene on Mustafar. I know TPS reports are important but this isn't office space and I don't need to see Krennic go weeping to Vader about office politics. What was the point of that even? To find out Vader has a butler? Lol. It didn't affect anything in the story at all.

Cut those two scenes (and others) and add actual scenes with the new characters. Maybe then I would have cared when Jyn and Cassian caught the worst sun burn ever.

Hey I would watch the shit out of a 3 hour cut of Rogue One with more character scenes. But the movie we got in theaters was still fantastic.

Also the Vader scene was to show what pushes Krennic to take his giant death ball and go home.

I came out of Jurassic World thinking "they promised dinosaurs terrorizing humans in a park and that's exactly what I got, fun times!" and proceeded not to think about it much ever again and never watched it again. So it's still good to me!

The terror wasn't entertaining enough for me. That one lady had asshole birds fucking with her before getting chomped by the crocodile which was cool. But I would have liked more horror movie style terror like when the security dudes get picked off by the chimera. I wanted more people hiding from dinosaurs and getting picked off like it's Aliens. Having comrade raptors was a mistake and I hope Blue turns on Chris Pratt in the next movie.

 

[Theslammer]

Like what? We got new storm troopers, new ships, new planets, new vehicles, new bases, new weapons, new characters.

I'd argue the only time the old cannibalizes the new is with Tarkin and Krennic. Seemed like they were afraid of making Krennic too powerful and intimidating of a villain because it might diminish Tarkin and Vader's presence/role.

Eh, I thought Krennic more than held his own. And the way they wrapped it up was great considering Tarkin taking over his work and killing him in the blast explains why he's never mentioned in the OT.

Yeah, he can't be mentioned because he wasn't thought of at the time, but the movie created a story that perfectly explained why.

It's really cringey/eyerolley. It's as bad as the last minutes of Episode 3 where everyone is conveniently shipped off to the planets that they'll live on for the next 18 years.

No, it's not even close. There's nothing convenient about how it wrapped up as it ends shortly before Episode 4 begins. However, Episode 3 starting to throw stuff that looks like the OT at the end, 20 years before the OT starts, is what's convenient. Leia didn't take the plans and sit on them for 18 years; it's a completely different scenario.

Plus, it actually enhances Episode 4 as Vader is noticeably more pissed at the beginning of ANH than at most points of any of the OT ("COMMANDER, TEAR THIS SHIP APART UNTIL YOU'VE FOUND THOSE PLANS!"). It's a louder, less contained version of himself, whereas later in the film and especially in 5, he's more of a calm badass who internalizes the anger more, at least verbally (obviously, he isn't above force choking someone to death). Watching Leia's ship slip away at the last second after annihilating the rebels on the ship is a very cool way of showing why he was audibly more irritated.

 

[brandonh83]

I get that, my point is that why RLM feels the need to complain about Rogue One having the classic elements when it ends immediately before A New Hope starts, but Force Awakens gets a pass? I'm not saying the movies are wrong, I'm saying their criticism is wrong.

Okay I can get behind that and totally agree. I think they're in the wrong complaining about Rogue leading right into 4, I mean I haven't seen their "review" so I'm just assuming they're fanboy whining about familiar element pandering. Rogue is entirely about what happened leading into 4.

 

[brandonh83]

I hope Blue turns on Chris Pratt in the next movie.

You secure that shit Hudson

 

[many places]

Honestly, how are people on the internet(and only on the internet) upset at the Vader joke? Shit was A1

Yeah, at my office, there are a shit ton of Star Wars fans and none of them had anything negative to say about Vader. He was kick-fucking-ass in this movie.

 

[Ezalc]

Saw this tonight and loved it. Liked it much more than ep 7 because of the fact that for a Star Wars movie it does it's own thing instead of relying on beats from past movies like how 7 did with 4.

 

[GentlemanCrow]

I also agree with Mike from RLM that early on they should have taken more time to establish a relation between Jyn and her father.

How? No, really how?

Their relationship is established. The opening, the hologram, the flashback to when Galen were cosy with Krennic and their goodbye.

The goodbye and hologram scene in particular stood out to me as very effective, driving moments - not to mention both are impressively acted by Jones.

The characters in this get as much character development as, say, Han in episode 4. Some get more. I'd say Cassian is a more interesting and developed character than Han is in episode 4.

But in general RLM were right on the money about the prequels but they have lost perspective here. This is actually the kind of film they seemed to desire instead of the prequel trilogy. Instead of being outlandishly weird (like the prequels), it toes the line with the original trilogy which is what the prequels should have done. A prequel is supposed to tastefully add texture to the film it precedes. This film does so. Probably better than any prequel film I've seen. But now that's too safe?

I thank them for the prequel blasting but they are being just plan incorrect here.

Edit: and while I'm here, that they can hold any Marvel film to this film and say it's not as good is laughable. Talk about a series of films with reheated leftovers for ideas. Don't get me wrong I like the majority of the MCU but it gets away with some Of the most basic, safe plots in the business. Everything is mostly wrapped up each film safety packed away for the next one. No balls.

 

[brandonh83]

Vader was perfect and his lines were fine. People just wanna bitch.

 

[Sanjuro]

I just learned Gold & Red Leader weren't CGI. Woah.

 

[brandonh83]

I just learned Gold & Red Leader weren't CGI. Woah.

Same actors?

 

[Sanjuro]

Same actors?

Archive footage only.

 

[brandonh83]

Archive footage only.

Oh wow that's neat.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Vader was perfect and his lines were fine. People just wanna bitch.

Nah, his voice sounded a little weird in his scene with Krennic. But that's pretty much the only flaw I could find. He was excellent and sparingly used to great effect.

 

[Ether_Snake]

How? No, really how?

Their relationship is established. The opening, the hologram, the flashback to when Galen were cosy with Krennic and their goodbye.

The goodbye and hologram scene in particular stood out to me as very effective, driving moments - not to mention both are impressively acted by Jones.

The characters in this get as much character development as, say, Han in episode 4. Some get more. I'd say Cassian is a more interesting and developed character than Han is in episode 4.

But in general RLM were right on the money about the prequels but they have lost perspective here. This is actually the kind of film they seemed to desire instead of the prequel trilogy. Instead of being outlandishly weird (like the prequels), it toes the line with the original trilogy which is what the prequels should have done. A prequel is supposed to tastefully add texture to the film it precedes. This film does so. Probably better than any prequel film I've seen. But now that's too safe?

I thank them for the prequel blasting but they are being just plan incorrect here.

Just because we didn't need to know more about her relationship to her father doesn't mean the movie shouldn't have spent more time on it. Like they said, it's about making you care about the character. By speeding through that first scene, just to tell us "she was girl, mom dead, dad gone" (another Star Wars orphan btw, AGAIN), it basically said "we don't care, you got it, moving on". Just showing her interacting with her dad, building her character (not personality; building the character in the viewer's mind), would have been great. If not that, then at least build up her character before she gets "freed" by the rebels. Her dad teaching her something, her being hard-headed, whatever, build her up as a person.

It's basic story-telling and they failed doing that. They did the same with Rey in TFA. It's poor story-telling, done to speed through the checklist and leave it to merchandise and such to fill the gaps.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

Eh, I thought Krennic more than held his own. And the way they wrapped it up was great considering Tarkin taking over his work and killing him in the blast explains why he's never mentioned in the OT.

Yeah, he can't be mentioned because he wasn't thought of at the time, but the movie created a story that perfectly explained why.

Just my impression of him from the reveal trailer is so much different than how he actually is in the movie. I had the feeling he was a lot more of a composed and smart tactician rather than a failing security director on the edge of demotion.

You secure that shit Hudson

Hey man, you see any Blue merchandise out there? He's as good as dead.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

Vader's voice in ANH sounds different to ESB and RotJ. Maybe they were trying to capture that (in addition to James Earl Jones being old)?

 

[firehawk12]

No, it's not even close. There's nothing convenient about how it wrapped up as it ends shortly before Episode 4 begins. However, Episode 3 starting to throw stuff that looks like the OT at the end, 20 years before the OT starts, is what's convenient. Leia didn't take the plans and sit on them for 18 years; it's a completely different scenario.

Plus, it actually enhances Episode 4 as Vader is noticeably more pissed at the beginning of ANH than at most points of any of the OT ("COMMANDER, TEAR THIS SHIP APART UNTIL YOU'VE FOUND THOSE PLANS!"). It's a louder, less contained version of himself, whereas later in the film and especially in 5, he's more of a calm badass who internalizes the anger more, at least verbally (obviously, he isn't above force choking someone to death). Watching Leia's ship slip away at the last second after annihilating the rebels on the ship is a very cool way of showing why he was audibly more irritated.

I understand, but I don't know if any of that motivation is really needed. It adds to that "fan film" feeling, where fans think it'd be cool to do a film about some behind the scenes minutiae that isn't that important in the grand scheme of things (presumably if it did matter, it would have been a part of the original Episode 4).

Like, the film could have ended without showing Vader or Leia at all and would have been the same. I half expected to see Luke peer into the Tattooine sky and notice a small explosion as he's off moisture farming.

 

[Sanjuro]

The Sandlot is still the best Vader vocal performance. I don't care about the new canon!

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

I understand, but I don't know if any of that motivation is really needed. It adds to that "fan film" feeling, where fans think it'd be cool to do a film about some behind the scenes minutiae that isn't that important in the grand scheme of things (presumably if it did matter, it would have been a part of the original Episode 4).

Like, the film could have ended without showing Vader or Leia at all and would have been the same. I half expected to see Luke peer into the Tattooine sky and notice a small explosion as he's off moisture farming.

I don't really get this "needed" argument. A story doesn't need to be important in the grand scheme of things.

 

[RareFantasy64]

Just saw the movie. Really liked it. I got chills when the Rebel Alliance showed up for the beach battle and when we saw Leia. This movie has heart ❤️

 

[Theslammer]

I understand, but I don't know if any of that motivation is really needed. It adds to that "fan film" feeling, where fans think it'd be cool to do a film about some behind the scenes minutiae that isn't that important in the grand scheme of things (presumably if it did matter, it would have been a part of the original Episode 4).

Like, the film could have ended without showing Vader or Leia at all and would have been the same. I half expected to see Luke peer into the Tattooine sky and notice a small explosion as he's off moisture farming.

But Luke isn't part of this rebellion/Empire conflict, while Vader and Leia are. She eventually is the one to get the plans, so finally giving them to her in the film is a logical end to the Rogue One mission, and cool on top of it. You may have been able to not have the Vader scene, but I don't agree it would have made anything better. The scene was fantastic, Vader's a great character who didn't get great treatment in his last film 11 years ago, and going from just missing the ship to the seething man we see at the beginning of ANH is just awesome.

At the end of the day, all those sacrifices ended with Leia getting the plans. And her giving the plans to R2, R2 going to Obi-Wan (and Luke) is what ultimately contributed the biggest rebel victory in the Death Star's destruction. So for me, Leia was not just a welcome surprise, but a logical end to the movie.

 

[Ezalc]

Vader ripping those rebels a new asshole was so fucking good to watch though I do lament the lack of him killing anybody in the main cast.

 

[firehawk12]

I don't really get this "needed" argument. A story doesn't need to be important in the grand scheme of things.

If people think it feels extraneous/gratuitous, then certainly it becomes an argument. Like having Benedict Cabbagepatch be Khan in that Star Trek movie just because everyone recognises the Khan scream.