Rogue One: A Star Wars Story |OT| They rebel - SPOILERS
- Thread starter Quick
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Nah fam, we good.
I liked how they set it up to jump right into ANH.
That said, they should have made it an epilogue that plays after the credit roll. I'm guessing they did not because it's a good 5-10 min scene and that be unprecedented long. Fine by me.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
oh it's going to happen at some point
Crimsonlink
Member
I'm gonna be hella pissed if we don't get a standalone Luke movie. Han, Luke, Leia and Vader all need their own movies.
Lifejumper
Member
I hope we move on from mining OT characters after the Han Solo movie. Im more excited for the latter than I was for Rogue One, mainly because of the talent involved.
Glass Rebel
Member
Vader is an obstacle to their mission, namely getting the plans to the Rebel Alliance.
They're gonna make an entire movie about Vader and his Inquisitors hunting the remaining Jedi, set somewhere between Ep 3 and 4. Optionally with an Obi-Wan appearance.
theCalamity
Member
Then put Vader in direct confrontation with the main characters. At that moment in the movie, the climax is done. None of the main characters can do anything about Vader. They don't even know he's up there so he can't be an obstacle for them to overcome. All of that was just fan service.
The movie could have ended with the white screen shot at the moment of Jyn and Cassian's deaths. The 5-10 minutes afterwards was filling in the gap of how the transmission reached leia. Without it, there is a very small, but awkward and significant gap between ANH and R1. I did just watch the movie, but I like how they did it - the transition is seamless.
Glass Rebel
Member
The entire point of the movie is to show how the little people contributed to the events directly leading into A New Hope. It takes like what, 5 minutes for him to appear in ANH? He's literally part of the story. It makes no sense for Vader to appear against Jyn and co. when he's out there trying to intercept the message they sent.
you dont remember JYN JYN JYN JYN JYN JYN JYN JYN JYN JYN JYN
they only repeated JYNs name every single line so you wouldn't forget JYN
JYN!!
I didn't even know the pilot's name because the characters rudely just kept calling him "the pilot" so he became Chris G
theCalamity
Member
I know, but then you have this action scene at the end that is completely detached from them AFTER they completed their climax.
eot
Banned
If they do some kind of re-release of this I think they should cut the scene with Vader on the lava planet. Completely pointless scene.
Having only watched it once I'm not sure if I like it more than TFA or not. I feel like TFA has higher highs, but lower lows. The scene aboard Han's freighter with that stupid monster sucks, and I feel like it's paced kinda strangely overall; the Jakku stuff is the highlight.
RO has a better climax, kind of, but having Cassian come up and shoot Krennic felt cheap. Speaking of him, I didn't like Cassian at all, he was really flat despite having a lot of screen time and I don't like the actor who played him. I think the cast was alright though, even the droid grew on me despite being annoying in the beginning.
I'd probably say:
Tier 1:
Empire Strikes Back
Tier 2:
A New Hope
The Force Awakens
Rogue One
Tier 3:
Return of the Jedi (Endor SUCKS)
Tier 4:
The Phantom Menace
Revenge of the Sith
Tier 5:
Attack of the Clones
Having only watched it once I'm not sure if I like it more than TFA or not. I feel like TFA has higher highs, but lower lows. The scene aboard Han's freighter with that stupid monster sucks, and I feel like it's paced kinda strangely overall; the Jakku stuff is the highlight.
RO has a better climax, kind of, but having Cassian come up and shoot Krennic felt cheap. Speaking of him, I didn't like Cassian at all, he was really flat despite having a lot of screen time and I don't like the actor who played him. I think the cast was alright though, even the droid grew on me despite being annoying in the beginning.
I'd probably say:
Tier 1:
Empire Strikes Back
Tier 2:
A New Hope
The Force Awakens
Rogue One
Tier 3:
Return of the Jedi (Endor SUCKS)
Tier 4:
The Phantom Menace
Revenge of the Sith
Tier 5:
Attack of the Clones
Monocle
Member
Somebody needs to make a fan film of this, like yesterday.
PeskyToaster
Member
Darth Vader is in a movie about the plans he is tasked with retrieving. Fan service. They use a lightsaber in a Star Wars movie. Fan service. There's an enjoyable scene in the movie. Fan service. Fan service. Fan service. We get it.
I've probably made similar posts before but I keep seeing people talking about fan service. Fan service is almost exclusively used in the anime world and it's pretty egregious when it happens. I don't watch anime so I don't really know but I read the article on Wikipedia.
I've probably made similar posts before but I keep seeing people talking about fan service. Fan service is almost exclusively used in the anime world and it's pretty egregious when it happens. I don't watch anime so I don't really know but I read the article on Wikipedia.
Monocle
Member
Did you notice that the Death Star was in this movie? I was so appalled by the blatant fan service that I slapped the popcorn out of my friend's grandma's mouth.
Dude, come on.
You know Disney either already has Vader: A Star Wars Story pencilled in for like 2020, or has a big glass box with "Smash in case of emergency" written on the side and a script marked VADER sat in the middle.
eot
Banned
I guess this movie was supposed to be a bit dark, what with the entire cast dying and stuff, but somehow I don't think the tone really reflects that. I can't say what, if anything, they should've done different, but they all die and seem kinda okay with it, you know? I just never felt that desperate to me.
Unknown Fighter Type II
Member
I saw it opening weekend. I thought overall it was a good movie, but plagued with a number of issues already mentioned by a number of posters. The biggest being that I didn't care for the characters (aside from K2SO, I felt a twinge of saddness at his death). If you're gonna kill everyone at the end, you gotta earn it.
1. Not enough character development
-At a bare minimum, they needed to focus on Jyn, and give her character more solid motivation, and deliver it with the right scenes/story. If I could re-write her part, I'd open the movie with her father and her escaping the empire with the help of Saw Guerera, followed by scenes showing Saw being an uncle/raising her and training her in the rebel life. She gets arrested as a teen during a mission etc.
Ditch the mind reading monster and pilot being sent by Gael Erso. Have it that Saw broke her out, and she wants to find her father. Saw puts her in contact with an agent he knows (Cassian), and she uses the rebels to find her father.
Chirrut (aka Donnie Yen) - A better way to introduce him would be to have Jyn and Co find their Jedi(ish) temple on Jedah, and they fight Empire troops there, and then have a scene talking about what the temple represents, and who they are etc.
-Forest Whittaker's character was wasted.
2. First half of the movie
-its all over the place. It was cool showing us familiar planets/moons, this is where some of that character development should have taken place.
Big Moments
-This movie needed BIG moments, pivotal scenes that you remember vividly, peppered throughout the film. For instance, in Force Awakens, seeing the falcon, seeing Han and Chewy, Han's Death, any of the fights etc. Not saying Rogue One didn't have any, but some that were present fell flat, due to the above issues dragging them down. Again, if you want some of these scenes to have impact with most of your audience, you have to deliver it in the character development/story.
Last thing I'll comment on is the comparisons to The Force Awakens. In some ways, its unfair to hold Rogue One up to it, as Rogue is just one self contained movie. They get one shot with these characters, there's no follow up sequel.
I'd stay that TFA's main cast (ie Rey and Finn) were developed enough for what the film needed, but its 1 of 3 movies! They have a lot more time to flesh them out/develop them further.
1. Not enough character development
-At a bare minimum, they needed to focus on Jyn, and give her character more solid motivation, and deliver it with the right scenes/story. If I could re-write her part, I'd open the movie with her father and her escaping the empire with the help of Saw Guerera, followed by scenes showing Saw being an uncle/raising her and training her in the rebel life. She gets arrested as a teen during a mission etc.
Ditch the mind reading monster and pilot being sent by Gael Erso. Have it that Saw broke her out, and she wants to find her father. Saw puts her in contact with an agent he knows (Cassian), and she uses the rebels to find her father.
Chirrut (aka Donnie Yen) - A better way to introduce him would be to have Jyn and Co find their Jedi(ish) temple on Jedah, and they fight Empire troops there, and then have a scene talking about what the temple represents, and who they are etc.
-Forest Whittaker's character was wasted.
2. First half of the movie
-its all over the place. It was cool showing us familiar planets/moons, this is where some of that character development should have taken place.
Big Moments
-This movie needed BIG moments, pivotal scenes that you remember vividly, peppered throughout the film. For instance, in Force Awakens, seeing the falcon, seeing Han and Chewy, Han's Death, any of the fights etc. Not saying Rogue One didn't have any, but some that were present fell flat, due to the above issues dragging them down. Again, if you want some of these scenes to have impact with most of your audience, you have to deliver it in the character development/story.
Last thing I'll comment on is the comparisons to The Force Awakens. In some ways, its unfair to hold Rogue One up to it, as Rogue is just one self contained movie. They get one shot with these characters, there's no follow up sequel.
I'd stay that TFA's main cast (ie Rey and Finn) were developed enough for what the film needed, but its 1 of 3 movies! They have a lot more time to flesh them out/develop them further.
Vader was all about fan service but it also pretty much had to be handled how it was to keep the flow of the original movies and their "impact" moments. Storywise it is one of those moments of arrogance that end up costing the empire dearly.
Instead of seizing victory and the end of the rebellion its all pushed aside so Vader can fumble the ball and cost the empire the Death Star.
Instead of seizing victory and the end of the rebellion its all pushed aside so Vader can fumble the ball and cost the empire the Death Star.
Someone get in contact with Lucasfilm for an extended cut...!
Jack Scofield
Member
I loved the film. It's probably been brought up a million times, but Rogue One makes Leia's alibi of "we're on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan" look ridiculous in retrospect. Vader should be like, "bruh, we literally SAW your ship at Scarif. We've been following you since then."
not even sure why she was on that ship in the first place, seems kind of dangerous to keep her on the ship being sent to war with the imperial fleet over an imperial planet
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
James Earl Jones can't live forever. He was already starting to sound rough in Rogue One.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
The film begins with both ships trading shots. Both parties know that it's a ridiculous excuse to begin with.
The One and Done
Member
Yeah Vader doesn't buy it for a minute.
Was it really vader who fumbled everything? Seemed to me more like Director Krennic, who was a subordinate to Tarkin, messed everything up, and Vader came to clean up his mess.
Jack Scofield
Member
Also, I loved Vader's castle. I believe that was part of the original concept art for A New Hope. Great to see it finally realized on screen.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Vader fumbles a lot during A New Hope. Like seriously, the degree of Imperial incompetence during that movie is spectacular compared to Rogue One.
This wins Post of the Year for me. Thank you.
She was an insider for the Alliance, as a member of the Imperial Senate. We already knew that in ANH - Her ship received a coded rebel transmission containing the death star plans, blowing her cover.
Tarkin blew up Alderaan because Leia, its princess, and her adoptive father, Bail Organa, were found to be conspiring with the rebels, because the death star plans were tracked to her ship. None of that information is new.
LegalEagleMike
Member
Imperial arrogance is a consistent part of Star Wars so yeah.
I don't think he realized they were trying to transmit the Death Star plans until Jyn told him her plans, literally moments before he is shot and killed. And of course why should he blow up the entire satellite when the planetary shield is up?
Not to mention that destroying the satellite building would also destroy all the Imperial archives housed below it.
He knew that someone had broken into the archives way before that.
And I didn't say blow up the entire building, just the satellite dish.
Edit: And he obviously witnessed Gyn steal something from the archives firsthand and escape toward the roof.
right but the new information here was that she was actually at the battle over scarif where they stole the plans
the ship she escaped fled from the larger ship that was disabled in the fight
what the fuck was she doing there instead of that being a handoff from the escaped vessel to princess leia
I mean its only a fumble in the sense he was trusted with the final play and didn't do it.
Tarkin could have wiped out the rebellion himself instead of relying on a foot soldier but of course plot armor etc. meant Vader had to be in play.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
I liked this movie more than TFA, but yeah I'll be in the camp of characters not developed enough, and didn't really feel for them. Maybe a little, but not much.
Exactly, she shouldn't be at the battle. Why put her in such danger? It makes no sense from what they showed us in the movie. Apparently in the novelization the reason is that her ship was undergoing repairs when they needed to get to Scarif, so they weren't able to drop her off. But we shouldn't need to rely on stuff not in the movie for something that important. As it stands it looks like they just shoe-horned her in at the end just to make the transition to ANH.
You know, after sitting back and thinking on the film for a really damn long time, I have to realize one main thing.
Why in the fuck is Tarkin in this?
Here's the deal: Krennic is a wannabe villain. It's not that he's weak as in he's uncompelling (though you could argue that he is, but I think he's alright). This is in the same manner as Loki or Kylo Ren, where they are the archtype of Smug Snake, the kind of villain who can certainly be dangerous, but he vastly overstates the value of his power. Loki is ultimately a middleman that is only a threat because of Thanos backing him that virtually every avenger bitchslaps in some way at one point in the film, while Kylo Ren is indeed depicted as a discount, Vader wanna-be. Similarly, Krennic is introduced into the film that talking down and condescendingly to Galen, only for his wife to shoot him when he grew overconfident in the idea that she wouldn't pull the trigger. After that, he literally doesn't have any scene wherein he's not beaten and humiliated.
And it all comes down to the fact that Tarkin is in this movie. Other than the fact that he's clad in continuity armor (he has to be in charge of the death star as of The New Hope), his only purpose in the film seems to be to belittle Krennic. And while this is a narrative that could have certainly worked, it has no significant end point. The key difference is that Loki's character arc ends with him being knocked down from on high by the heroes he thought himself above, culminating in the scene where he tries to hold on to one last scrap of dignity only to be literally pounded into the ground by the big green rage machine. Similarly, Kylo Ren looks down on Finn and Rey, believing in the inherent superiority of the dark side, only for both Finn and Rey to take him down by fighting using the light side of the force. It's thematic, their arrogance and false sense of superiority are refuted by the protagonists of the film themselves. In both cases, the idea isn't that the villains aren't a threat...they totally are. Loki still has his alien army and scepter and Kylo Ren still has the force. But their threat is because of some kind of external force not inherent to them, and by tying their self esteem to those external forces, they are not empowered by their own strength, which the heroes, by contrast, are. The Avengers didn't win because of external forces backing them, but because they were the avengers. Rey only starts winning once she accepts her inherent connection to the force that has nothing to do with her wanting to be like Luke, while Kylo Ren identity is based around trying to recreate Vader's image in himself.
Using this archtype up against Tarkin makes very little sense, atleast the way they did it. Tarkin is antagonistic to Krennic from scene one and since Tarkin both outranks him and Krennic doesn't have any superior attributes (being smarter than him in how to manage the Death Star, just as a potential example) to him, Krennic just kind of has to take it. As a result, the narrative breaks away from the typical set up and Krennic doesn't have even the illusion of power provided by external forces. He's just outpowered, which makes his arrogance not simply wrong, but foolish. I mean, The Avengers kept that scene that Loki has with Thanos henchmen (who is a colleague of Loki, rather than superior) short for a reason, because running it too long would overemphasize how little power Loki actually has.
Yet here, Krennic has more scenes with Tarkin and Vader knocking him down than he does being successful at...anything. You could argue that he throws his power around with Galen, who is tricking him with the death star plans. Only problem is that Galen isn't the protagonist. Which circles back around to my complaint that Jyn only exists as a surrogate for Galen, but in just simple terms, usually a significant point of catharsis of the movie is that the villains false sense of confidence is shattered by the protagonist, rather than the side character. So when you get it set up the way it is, it's got too many barriers of separation here to be truly satisfying. Jyn gets to tell Krennic on behalf of her father that there is a flaw in the death star that he will only be able to imagine will be exploited in the next movie which Tarkin and the rest of the empire suffer for because he is going to die there on the orders of a superior that he hated for being superior to him. When you look at the film, Krennic's motivations and goals seem to revolve around appeasing his superiors than the enemy he is actually fighting.
And this could basically be solved by removing Tarkin. Make it so the challenge to his power and authority come from the protagonist, not a secondary antagonist. The most significant relationship Krennic ought to have is with Jyn, not Tarkin or even Galen. It's Jyn that should be pulling the rug from underneath his feet as he tries to maintain his dignity. There is actual uncertainty to whether Jyn can successfully undermine him because of the backing he has and her being the protagonist and having backstory intertwined with him personally, undermining him has some actual significance. Like, in comparison, I doubt that Tarkin and Vader even remember Krennic's name by the time ANH starts. I would only include Vader as is because I do think that, the same way Jyn is just a rando who shouldn't be remembered, Vader can be there to remind the audience that Krennic is fundamentally an Imperial Redshirt. But that's fine because Vader has one scene with Krennic in a tangential plot point. It's significant to giving Krennic's place in the broad scheme, but as a film that's about the small and intimate relationships, his relationship with Jyn should be the forefront of his character. Instead, Krennic literally does know who Jyn is until the very last second of the film, while Jyn's attacks and interactions with the empire have no regard for Krennic being there.
It's highly unsatisfying because false arrogance has nowhere to go when the people who challenge it are explicitly his superiors. It's the perceived inferiors, like a random girl on the other side fighting with no resources to her name in enemy territory, that'd make breaking his illusion of superiority cathartic.
Why in the fuck is Tarkin in this?
Here's the deal: Krennic is a wannabe villain. It's not that he's weak as in he's uncompelling (though you could argue that he is, but I think he's alright). This is in the same manner as Loki or Kylo Ren, where they are the archtype of Smug Snake, the kind of villain who can certainly be dangerous, but he vastly overstates the value of his power. Loki is ultimately a middleman that is only a threat because of Thanos backing him that virtually every avenger bitchslaps in some way at one point in the film, while Kylo Ren is indeed depicted as a discount, Vader wanna-be. Similarly, Krennic is introduced into the film that talking down and condescendingly to Galen, only for his wife to shoot him when he grew overconfident in the idea that she wouldn't pull the trigger. After that, he literally doesn't have any scene wherein he's not beaten and humiliated.
And it all comes down to the fact that Tarkin is in this movie. Other than the fact that he's clad in continuity armor (he has to be in charge of the death star as of The New Hope), his only purpose in the film seems to be to belittle Krennic. And while this is a narrative that could have certainly worked, it has no significant end point. The key difference is that Loki's character arc ends with him being knocked down from on high by the heroes he thought himself above, culminating in the scene where he tries to hold on to one last scrap of dignity only to be literally pounded into the ground by the big green rage machine. Similarly, Kylo Ren looks down on Finn and Rey, believing in the inherent superiority of the dark side, only for both Finn and Rey to take him down by fighting using the light side of the force. It's thematic, their arrogance and false sense of superiority are refuted by the protagonists of the film themselves. In both cases, the idea isn't that the villains aren't a threat...they totally are. Loki still has his alien army and scepter and Kylo Ren still has the force. But their threat is because of some kind of external force not inherent to them, and by tying their self esteem to those external forces, they are not empowered by their own strength, which the heroes, by contrast, are. The Avengers didn't win because of external forces backing them, but because they were the avengers. Rey only starts winning once she accepts her inherent connection to the force that has nothing to do with her wanting to be like Luke, while Kylo Ren identity is based around trying to recreate Vader's image in himself.
Using this archtype up against Tarkin makes very little sense, atleast the way they did it. Tarkin is antagonistic to Krennic from scene one and since Tarkin both outranks him and Krennic doesn't have any superior attributes (being smarter than him in how to manage the Death Star, just as a potential example) to him, Krennic just kind of has to take it. As a result, the narrative breaks away from the typical set up and Krennic doesn't have even the illusion of power provided by external forces. He's just outpowered, which makes his arrogance not simply wrong, but foolish. I mean, The Avengers kept that scene that Loki has with Thanos henchmen (who is a colleague of Loki, rather than superior) short for a reason, because running it too long would overemphasize how little power Loki actually has.
Yet here, Krennic has more scenes with Tarkin and Vader knocking him down than he does being successful at...anything. You could argue that he throws his power around with Galen, who is tricking him with the death star plans. Only problem is that Galen isn't the protagonist. Which circles back around to my complaint that Jyn only exists as a surrogate for Galen, but in just simple terms, usually a significant point of catharsis of the movie is that the villains false sense of confidence is shattered by the protagonist, rather than the side character. So when you get it set up the way it is, it's got too many barriers of separation here to be truly satisfying. Jyn gets to tell Krennic on behalf of her father that there is a flaw in the death star that he will only be able to imagine will be exploited in the next movie which Tarkin and the rest of the empire suffer for because he is going to die there on the orders of a superior that he hated for being superior to him. When you look at the film, Krennic's motivations and goals seem to revolve around appeasing his superiors than the enemy he is actually fighting.
And this could basically be solved by removing Tarkin. Make it so the challenge to his power and authority come from the protagonist, not a secondary antagonist. The most significant relationship Krennic ought to have is with Jyn, not Tarkin or even Galen. It's Jyn that should be pulling the rug from underneath his feet as he tries to maintain his dignity. There is actual uncertainty to whether Jyn can successfully undermine him because of the backing he has and her being the protagonist and having backstory intertwined with him personally, undermining him has some actual significance. Like, in comparison, I doubt that Tarkin and Vader even remember Krennic's name by the time ANH starts. I would only include Vader as is because I do think that, the same way Jyn is just a rando who shouldn't be remembered, Vader can be there to remind the audience that Krennic is fundamentally an Imperial Redshirt. But that's fine because Vader has one scene with Krennic in a tangential plot point. It's significant to giving Krennic's place in the broad scheme, but as a film that's about the small and intimate relationships, his relationship with Jyn should be the forefront of his character. Instead, Krennic literally does know who Jyn is until the very last second of the film, while Jyn's attacks and interactions with the empire have no regard for Krennic being there.
It's highly unsatisfying because false arrogance has nowhere to go when the people who challenge it are explicitly his superiors. It's the perceived inferiors, like a random girl on the other side fighting with no resources to her name in enemy territory, that'd make breaking his illusion of superiority cathartic.
I'm skimming through the soundtrack trying to find the Rogue One theme in full, as it played when the title popped up on screen. I can't seem to find it.
Small thing I caught on my first viewing that I'm not sure is intentional or not: when the opening scene starts up in space, and the camera pans down, and on the top left corner, the ring of the planet looks like the opening crawl zipping along while the movie starts up "under" it.
Small thing I caught on my first viewing that I'm not sure is intentional or not: when the opening scene starts up in space, and the camera pans down, and on the top left corner, the ring of the planet looks like the opening crawl zipping along while the movie starts up "under" it.
General Calamari, who clearly and explicitly wanted to take the entire fleet to Scarif, heard that a bunch of people had gone rogue (har har) and assaulted the Imperial Archive, so he dropped everything and immediately went there.
"What does [General Calamari] think?"
"He's already en route to Scarif" - aka, he disregarded everything else and immediately diverted course.
His ship gets disabled. It opens up, Leia's ship pops out.
I think it's pretty clear in the movie that General Calamari dove in without concern for anything else, and even if he had been courteous enough to ask Leia what she wanted to do, she absolutely, 100%, no chance in hell, no way don't even argue it, would never say "Oh, well drop me off before you go fight the Empire."
As for why her ship was there in the first place, you can easily explain that by the fact that General Calamari was leaving a meeting of all of the biggest leaders of the Rebel Alliance, which her father founded and she was one of. But, if you want to talk about it sans nerdery, well, that's just the story, and how all stories work. You might as well argue why Han Solo was in that particular cantina in that particular city on that particular planet the exact day Luke and Obi-wan walked in. I'm sure in that hive of scum and villainy there was a cantina just as good across the street.
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