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[pixellated_man]

It's a big blow to the Xbox line up. Honestly there's a serious lack of single player story driven games. Well, exclusive ones at least. Everything is literally MP focused. Forza 7, State of Decay, Sea of Thieves, Crackdown...(and I've heard Crackdown isn't going too hot either, though nothing as bad as this).

Unless they have a bunch of first party studios secretly tucked away somewhere (which they don't that I know of), I genuinely struggle to think of what surprises they could have at E3 *as of right now*. Halo 6 is to be expected, and I don't see publishers playing ball much anymore with 3rd party exclusives unless Microsoft gives the Xbox division a huge budget to throw cash around, which I highly doubt. Their major first party IP are on a decline with Halo doing less than before and Gears 4 not selling that well at all relatively speaking (not good enough to sustain a huge studio with that many workers and budget).

What's happening now is the exact opposite of what Xbox fans seemed to want out of a Phil spencer leadership.

I remember when he became head of Xbox and everyone was saying how there'll be tons of new games, but they're still coasting on announcements from 2013-2014 and in that time, games have been cancelled, multiple studios closed including Lionhead...

As a big Xbox fan since day one, I'm not very hopeful for the future. Scorpio won't do anything without software to push it heavily.

Good post as usual, Shinobi.

 

[CrispyBoar]

Sakaguchi had some words to say about PlayStation being hard to develop for and he didn't really like ken that goes back to PlayStation being more difficult to develop for

It's ironic that 3rd party publishers develop games for PS2 & PS3 despite not being developer friendly, yet ignores Wii U for the same thing.

Honestly though, what's stopping Platinum from going to Sony next?

Activision is done with their licensed games, for Nintendo they released two sales flops and now they're gonna have bad blood with Microsoft. Seems like their only three options here for publishers are Ubisoft, EA or Sony and I imagine Sony would let them have the most creative freedom out of those.

Edit: I guess I hadn't considered Japanese publishers like Square, Atlus etc. but I won't pretend to know anything about them cause I only care about Eidos.

They should've went to Sony to begin with.

 

[Psychoward]

To the MS fans sitting here defending MS & trying to throw this at Platinum's feet - i'd really refrain from doing so if I were you. When the smoke clears & the articles about what really happened here get written, MS is gonna look even worse. This aint on Platinum.

Hello from the future.

I'm not doubting that Microsoft screwed up somewhat and their lineup is sparse going forward, I don't even own an X1 so I'm not invested in them at all. I just find it silly that they'd can it for no reason after funding it for 4 years.

 

[Dark Cloud]

How can anybody defend MS? Do you not see the type of company they are? I can never support them for how they treat Platinum and other studios.

 

[Laughing Banana]

This is why you don't buy a console/game platform for a game that's not even out yet, people.

 

[Pathfinder]

To the MS fans sitting here defending MS & trying to throw this at Platinum's feet - i'd really refrain from doing so if I were you. When the smoke clears & the articles about what really happened here get written, MS is gonna look even worse. This aint on Platinum.

We don't know exactly what went down. People are free to speculate until then.

 

[Kyoufu]

It's ironic that 3rd party publishers develop games for PS2 & PS3, yet ignores Wii U for the same thing.

???

3rd party publishers made money on PS2 and PS3. They didn't make money on Wii U, hence why it's a dead platform.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Eurogamer reported the game still had engine issues in the fall.

I mean, yeah, that's not unheard of in game development. But those issues can be ironed out by the time of release.

 

[Coreda]

Must have always confused Scalebound with Starbound so I hadn't clicked on anything about it before.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Kamiya had issues with the PS3 days, but it wasn't as bad as Mikami for sure.

Mikami said he would cut off his head with a chainsaw if RE4 ever came out on PS2.

So a bit of a gap of hatred, for sure.

Oh, I hadn't heard of that. Although that sounds more like an issue with the hardware as opposed to him having a specific issue with Sony. It's definitely not like with Mikami. Although that was a lot more funny when you look back on it. I remember him being extremely pissed about Kingdom Hearts outselling REmake.

 

[Astral Dog]

Yeah...but then Bayo 2 did not do well either. I'm rooting for Platinum as much as anyone (hell, I bought a Wii U just for Bayo), but I wish there was some actual indication that Nintendo was interested in working with them again.

Their name on their Switch partner list. (And Star Fox Zero)

It would be a very safe bet for some Platinum goodness coming to Switch

 

[bman94]

TMS was done from the ground up with nintendo.

I thought Atlus co-developed?

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Because MS had the leverage in that situation. If Kamiya demanded IP ownership they probably would have told him to go fly a kite and find funding somewhere else.

He agreed because no one else would even give him a chance to make his dream game. I would acept too quite frankly. I don't think he expected to get fucked over like this if the rumors are true.

Sure, of course, as I said, the funding to make the project come to life. But again, even if the game came out and was universally acclaimed, Microsoft would own the IP, effectively owning his baby/dream project. What I'm saying is that it was a Kobayashi Maru scenario for him. I'm not blaming Kamiya, of course, but he should have shopped the project around until he got a better deal. This *is* Microsoft after all; they have a... history of these types of deals.

 

[Net]

Well the reports are that they were missing deadlines and milestones, which absolutely have to do with the quality of the product.

These are what the reports say actually.

And read this post for a breakdown of what happened in a similar situation to Phantom Dust:

Maybe consider that MS presents a contract where they say they can introduce new milestones, then introduce a very short term milestone with very high requirements and say that they will provide a very small budget to do so, technically the contractor agreed to that but is it really their fault at that point if requirements change unrealistically?

Microsoft did exactly that:

How A Small Studio's Chance At The Big Time Died At Microsoft's Doorstep

 

[Psychoward]

I mean, yeah, that's not unheard of in game development. But those issues can be ironed out by the time of release.

It was in development for over 4 years at that point. Large technical issues combined with a largely unfinished game from a developer who isn't known for commercial hits isn't reassuring.

 

[He1nekenP1ss]

That's usually what happens when a game is released with a terrible frame rate... bad reviews.

And yes, there is plenty of evidence to suggest the game had a bad frame rate, just look at the E3 and Gamescom demos.

In the state that was shown at Gamescom, the game would indeed have had harsh reviews on the technical side.

But it was last summer, and optimization for framerate is not a priority until the last months of development. Platinum Games is known for their technical skills, and it's not like the Xbox One is a weak console.

 

[SneakersSO]

We don't know exactly what went down. People are free to speculate until then.

Feel free. Just know that the people sitting here with the rigorous MS defense are gonna have to do the same afterwards too.

 

[Veelk]

These are what the reports say actually.



And read this post for a breakdown of what happened in a similar situation to Phantom Dust.

I dearly hope this is true and makes headlines.

We are at a time where there is nothing the industry loves more than comeback stories. Kojima from capcom, The Last Guardian finally being released, Doom being great, Shenmue being crowd funded, even the unfortunately failed megaman successor Mighty No. 9 is an example of the fact that people want things to come back right now.

Sony: "Oh my, Kamiya, MS did WHAT do you?! Why, come here. We'll get you fed, cleaned up, get some you some new clothes, and set you up right. You can make scalebound with us."

 

[Cru]

.

Nice input lol.

 

[x Maiku x]

Really, really disappointing.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

Yeah...but then Bayo 2 did not do well either. I'm rooting for Platinum as much as anyone (hell, I bought a Wii U just for Bayo), but I wish there was some actual indication that Nintendo was interested in working with them again.

They teamed up with Platinum again to assist with Star Fox Zero and Guard, put Bayonetta in Smash Bros, and Platinum are listed among the Switch partners. Nintendo has been Platinum's most stable partner in the past while and they have a history of working with smaller developers (e.g. Skip, Genius Sorority, Alpha Dream etc.)

One thing to note as well is it's hard to know whether Bayonetta 2, W101, and SF0 actually "bombed" from a technical standpoint because we're not sure what their sales expectations were relative to the results. Plus the fact that they were all on Wii U didn't help and Nintendo probably realizes that.

 

[Psychoward]

Feel free. Just know that the people sitting here with the rigorous MS defense are gonna have to do the same afterwards too.

Or people are going to change their opinions once concrete info comes out? Shocking.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Seriously, fuck this shit very hard. I just hope we get another Kamiya game this gen.

 

[kurahador]

Well the reports are that they were missing deadlines and milestones, which absolutely have to do with the quality of the product.

MS had a lot invested in this game. They funded it for 4 years and who knows how many millions of dollars. They showcased it multiple times at trade shows. I doubt they just canned it on a whim. They had a lot to lose here and this likely happened as a last resort. Things had to have been going pretty wrong in their eyes, and consider that they didn't have a problem sending out games like ReCore to tepid critical and commercial response, I doubt the problem is simply that MS' vision or standards are too high for a developer to reach.

Or it could be MS unrealistic milestones expectation. In comparison, ReCore isn't an open world game or features any kind of mutiplayer mode -- 2 of the biggest technical nightmare to get right when developing games.

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

Yeah...but then Bayo 2 did not do well either. I'm rooting for Platinum as much as anyone (hell, I bought a Wii U just for Bayo), but I wish there was some actual indication that Nintendo was interested in working with them again.

Platinum had been very busy lately with Scalebound and other known projects. I don't think they work right now on a Nintendo project, but who knows...

 

[Obliterator]

You know, this is something I don't get. I thought this was supposed to be Kamiya's baby/dream project, why would he agree on giving MS ownership of the IP? I mean, obviously money (the funding for the project to ever see the light of day, ironically enough), but even if the project did great, Microsoft would still own the IP and thus be able to determine what happened with it in the future.

Hindsight is 20/20 and all that but I feel like that was a bad call.

Because word is he was shopping the game to publishers for years and kept being turned down.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Sure, of course, as I said, the funding to make the project come to life. But again, even if the game came out and was universally acclaimed, Microsoft would own the IP, effectively owning his baby/dream project. What I'm saying is that it was a Kobayashi Maru scenario for him. I'm not blaming Kamiya, of course, but he should have shopped the project around until he got a better deal. This *is* Microsoft after all; they have a... history of these types of deals.

From my understanding, they shopped the project several times. There are just a few publishers that can or want to publish an AAA japanese project.

They went to MS, because they were the only ones willing to do so.

 

[OnionPowder]

Kamiya had issues with the PS3 days, but it wasn't as bad as Mikami for sure.

Mikami said he would cut off his head with a chainsaw if RE4 ever came out on PS2.

So a bit of a gap of hatred, for sure.

To be fair to his point, the ps2 version of re4 is garbage

 

[The Mad Draklor]

To the MS fans sitting here defending MS & trying to throw this at Platinum's feet - i'd really refrain from doing so if I were you. When the smoke clears & the articles about what really happened here get written, MS is gonna look even worse. This aint on Platinum.

Oh boy... Part of me is kinda afraid to find out what has happened behind the scenes.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

I just hope Platinum can survive this. Like Nirolak said, they've only got NieR and that mobile game and this cancellation is sure to be a huge hit for the studio. I've played a few Platinum Games but only Devil May Cry from Kamiya. I want to play them all one day but I was relatively excited for Scalebound, even if it looked rough, the co-op was something I was looking forward to. I really just hope that someone scoops Kamiya up like Sony did for Kojima. People are looking for who to blame but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. That will all come to light. What's important is whether these guys are able to make it through this rocky situation and bounce back from it.

 

[FuturusX]

Well the reports are that they were missing deadlines and milestones, which absolutely have to do with the quality of the product.

MS had a lot invested in this game. They funded it for 4 years and who knows how many millions of dollars. They showcased it multiple times at trade shows. I doubt they just canned it on a whim. They had a lot to lose here and this likely happened as a last resort. Things had to have been going pretty wrong in their eyes, and consider that they didn't have a problem sending out games like ReCore to tepid critical and commercial response, I doubt the problem is simply that MS' vision or standards are too high for a developer to reach.

I agree that if they missed reasonable milestones and the objectives for the project didn't shift dramatically on a whim - then sure I can buy that. There are couple of journos on twitter whom are suggesting that MS shifted those milestones and created an unreasonable environment to succeed. So I'll wait until the dust settles before I'm willing to throw PG under the bus on this one. I don't know what happened. But I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that either party could have been key in the relationship falling apart.

That's usually what happens when a game is released with a terrible frame rate... bad reviews.

And yes, there is plenty of evidence to suggest the game had a bad frame rate, just look at the E3 and Gamescom demos.

The game was unreleased and thus any analysis of performance should be taken with caution....frame rate issues could have been resolved before final release right? So not sure why the frame rate of unreleased state was key here. Unless you are privy to information that we don't know about.

 

[Japanmanx3]

These are what the reports say actually.



And read this post for a breakdown of what happened in a similar situation to Phantom Dust.

I didn't need another reason to sell my Xbox but man. I can't wait to put it towards the Switch now.


Stay up Kamiya!

Smh...unbelievable....well, actually, not so unbelievable...*sigh*

Microsoft...

 

[RiccochetJ]

You know, this is something I don't get. I thought this was supposed to be Kamiya's baby/dream project, why would he agree on giving MS ownership of the IP? I mean, obviously money (the funding for the project to ever see the light of day, ironically enough), but even if the project did great, Microsoft would still own the IP and thus be able to determine what happened with it in the future.

Hindsight is 20/20 and all that but I feel like that was a bad call.

Platinum themselves shelved the game twice. They pitched the game and there were no takers until MS.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-one-exclusive-scalebound-was-shelved-twice-or/1100-6431046/

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

These are what the reports say actually.



And read this post for a breakdown of what happened in a similar situation to Phantom Dust:

Oh shit. New thread for new news? (even though it's twitter).

 

[icespide]

I will feel better if Bayonetta 3 is announced on Thursday

 

[renzolama]

They teamed up with Platinum again to assist with Star Fox Zero and Guard, put Bayonetta in Smash Bros, and Platinum are listed among the Switch partners. Nintendo has been Platinum's most stable partner in the past while and they have a history of working with smaller developers (e.g. Skip, Genius Sorority, Alpha Dream etc.)

One thing to note as well is it's hard to know whether Bayonetta 2, W101, and SF0 actually "bombed" from a technical standpoint because we're not sure what their sales expectations were relative to the results. Plus the fact that they were all on Wii U didn't help and Nintendo probably realizes that.

Their name on their Switch partner list. (And Star Fox Zero)

It would be a very safe bet for some Platinum goodness coming to Switch

Well, if they're listed among Switch partners then I guess that's a positive sign. Thanks for the info.

 

[Astral Dog]

This is why you don't buy a console/game platform for a game that's not even out yet, people.

In this case it was actually announced and shown. Very common for people to buy consoles for announced games

 

[Psychoward]

Oh boy... Part of me is kinda afraid to find out what has happened behind the scenes.

He doesn't know anymore than you or I do about what happened, just speculation with a combination of smugness and superiority.

 

[Oersted]

It's ironic that 3rd party publishers develop games for PS2 & PS3, yet ignores Wii U for the same thing.

Sakaguchi founded Mistwalker and they made the Wii exclusive The Last Story.

They are now a mobile developer.

 

[TheYanger]

To the MS fans sitting here defending MS & trying to throw this at Platinum's feet - i'd really refrain from doing so if I were you. When the smoke clears & the articles about what really happened here get written, MS is gonna look even worse. This aint on Platinum.

So, if you actually know something, you could post it? otherwise you know how hollow your post rings.

 

[Net]

Oh shit. New thread for new news? (even though it's twitter).

My sense of outrage is great enough that I would make the thread if I could.

Feel free to take it all if you want.

 

[Ivory Samoan]

This is disappointing to say the least, looked like a fun game...hope it doesn't hurt PG too much.

Does anyone know if Platinum is good with Sony? Surely they would love to grab them as an exclusive action dev (I would say Nintendo, but after Bayonetta 2 bomba, probably not).

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

It was in development for over 4 years at that point. Large technical issues combined with a largely unfinished game from a developer who isn't known for commercial hits isn't reassuring.

And FFXV was in development for 10 years, with a problematic engine and had public demos in which the game ran pretty bad.

When it was released the game framerate was pretty stable.

I mean, engine problems and performance struggles are not unheard off, actually, framerate is one of the things that get ironed out the last in game development.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Because word is he was shopping the game to publishers for years and kept being turned down.

From my understanding, they shopped the project several times. There are just a few publishers that can or want to publish an AAA japanese project.

They went to MS, because they were the only ones willing to do so.

Platinum themselves shelved the game twice. They pitched the game and there were no takers until MS.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-one-exclusive-scalebound-was-shelved-twice-or/1100-6431046/

so sad. Hopefully Kamiya recovers. His games are usually too hard for my puny skills but I can't deny he's a great game director.

 

[Psychoward]

And FFXV was in development for 10 years, with a problematic engine and had public demos in which the game ran pretty bad.

When it was released the game framerate was pretty stable.

Yeah and if it wasn't being published by Square it probably would have been cancelled.

Edit: it also had the final fantasy name attached to it

 

[AAK]

These are what the reports say actually.



And read this post for a breakdown of what happened in a similar situation to Phantom Dust:

All this drama is freiking annoying.... just speak up already or say nothing. All this does is stir up shit without even saying anything factual & concrete.

 

[CrispyBoar]

nvm

 

[Primethius]

Some of the tweets make it sound like the Phantom Dust situation.

I'm inclined to believe then because of that.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

This is bad. I honestly think this is worse than a lot of people might think even for those that might not have been interested in the game. MS was already climbing a steep hill to regain a lot of peoples trust or just to gain it at all and seeing projects that they touted as huge AAA exclusives only to cancel it like this... This is going to set a whole bunch of peoples backs up against the wall and make them not trust anything you say MS.

You picked up the project and advertised it in order to champion your line up and I can guarantee you that since then many picked up an xbox because they wanted to play this game and now one of the biggest reasons they decided to jump in is gone.

MS you saw what you did of the game and you decided to show it to the public at that stage in the hopes of bolstering your image. You interviewed the team and knew who you where working with and if you didn't you should have. There have been other companies that Kamiya and co have worked with that haven't had problems like this. My point is that you should have stuck with it. You decided to get people emotionally involved in this IP on one of the biggest video game stages in the world and you should have seen it through IMO even if it meant that it would take much more time while you take a minute to re-gather yourselves and your vision and get on the same page. Even if PG was more at fault than you, you are the leader here, you own the IP and are funding the game and you chose to start this. You don't just quit after coming this far and showing so much. You put your pride behind you and work things out and get through it.

Now people including myself are going to have very little faith in anything that you show from now on.

 

[He1nekenP1ss]

Yeah...but then Bayo 2 did not do well either. I'm rooting for Platinum as much as anyone (hell, I bought a Wii U just for Bayo), but I wish there was some actual indication that Nintendo was interested in working with them again.

I hope so. As you, I bought a Wii U for Bayoneta 2 first (and later on a few other games). So even is the game didn't sell plenty, it had drived certain gamers toward the Nintendo console. It's important for a plateform to have a diverse portfolio. Just for that, I'd like Nintendo and Sony to work with Platinum Games in the future, even if it means to take risk.