Scalebound cancelled [Platinum Games and Kamiya have commented]

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LewieP said:
Owning the IP is not the same as owning the assets. This question cannot be fully answered without seeing the contract and probably speaking to a lawyer.

It's entirely possible that MS own the name "Scalebound" and other related properties, but the actual assets could be repurposed into a similar but legally distinct game. It's plausible that they'd need funding from someone else to actually finish it though.
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This is theoretically true, but that's very unlikely unless there's some signal otherwise. If a financier and publisher has the ability to cancel a project, it's most likely the output is considered work-for-hire. That's true for most contracted work, and even more so when it's the publisher's own IP.

That1BlackGuy said:
Obviously speculating, but I kind of feel like if Scalebound had more positive buzz Microsoft would've been more lenient. Outside a contingent of Xbox owners, the community was hard on the game from the get go. Just like Fable Legends, It's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy; everyone said the game would bomb, and so Microsoft went "yeah you're right" and canceled it and people got angry anyway. Some folks have drawn correlations to Sony's properties but you have to remember games like The Last Guardian had and maintained enough consistent positive buzz to justify Sony not canning the product. Scalebound, Fable Legends (or any MS property for that matter, especially this generation) generally doesn't get that luxury.
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Game cancellations so far into development aren't that arbitrary a decision.
 
Lima said:
Just for the reason why the 360 sold so well. To play the best looking and performing version of 3rd party games. You know the games people play most of the year.
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Problem with that theory is that the 360 has a ton of strong exclusives while it was building it's base up, then it coasted on third party once it was already in the lead.
 
SilentRob said:
During gamescom 2016 year they showed Scalebound in private showings.

They showed off something called "Dragon Link", something that they, as far as I know, haven't shown to the public ever and now possibly never will. Up until that point they only showed fairly basic combat that looked great but more in the vein of Dragon's Dogma and less like Devil May Cry or Bayonetta. That's why many people used to Kamiya's games were pretty disappointed. And then they showed Dragon Link. It's a button you hold and then the camera switched into First Person Mode...and you controlled the dragon. So then you controlled the Dragon from Drew's perspective, which still looks HUGE because the camera doesn't zoom out but goes into first person and you fight against another huge Monster. And then they started comboing. They fluidly switched from Drew to the Dragon to Drew by holding or not holding the Dragon Link button.

Think the weapon system of DmC but instead of holding a button to switch to a certain weapon you hold a button to switch to a fucking dragon. So these two characters juggled that huge monkey enemy into the air with all the usual attacks and combos you know from Platinum Games only it was A HUGE GODDAMN DRAGON DOING THE COMBOS. There was a combo counter and a rating and everything. It was their direct answer to the "Where is the Platinum action?" question.

It looked fucking great and as far as I'm aware they have never released that footage, just as they never showed the HUGE array of customising options and RPG features.

I'm so mad about this cancellation. Goddamnit.
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Gomorrah fully controllable in Bayonetta 3 confirmed!
 
Lima said:
Just for the reason why the 360 sold so well. To play the best looking and performing version of 3rd party games. You know the games people play most of the year.
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But why would Scorpio patches be a priority for 3rd party publishers exactly?
 
formasymphonic said:
I really want to read the comments from people here who are insiders or know people closer to the situation... but 149 pages is tough to dig through man....
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I think i read yesterday that there will be a scoop on this story. i forgot who mentioned it before the actual news broke but they insisted that this story will be heard on what happened.
 
J4g3r said:
I just noticed the slight edit on JP's Twitter profile :(

5kwuDK3.png


Hoping Platinum aren't hit too hard by this :/
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damn, thats sad

Hope him and Kamiya can jump on something new quick (if they want it of course)
 
Pachael said:
Can't help but think that this is related to Tatsuya Minami leaving as CEO after a decade at PG as founder and the 'no comment' nature of the resignation.

The eventual expose of this should be substantive but will probably be heartbreaking.
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I had forgotten about this. Even without knowing the details of what happened with Scalebound, the CEO is going to be the most influential person dealing with Microsoft to shepard the game. Wonder if the outcome would have been different if Minami (as a 10-year Platinum vet) were handling this vs. the new CEO who's been in role <1 year.
 
shanafan said:
Like any major company, he has to report to a board of directors and senior leaders, especially a CFO. If they feel the game will not be profitable and will be a loss for the company, they can tell him to scrap it.

Phil is not the end all, be all of Xbox.

Take a look at Microsoft's senior leaders, Phil is nowhere to be found:
http://news.microsoft.com/microsoft...dzlsvcpxxe6trua2ii1kqkdnv#Wg5SoVIEHMIL3zz7.97
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That's exactly what I said.

The board of directors aren't not going to be looking at which individual games are or aren't going to be profitable for the Xbox team and Microsoft as a whole, that's Phil Spencer's job.

OtisInf said:
Heh, no.

XBox isn't a separate division within MS. This means a lot: it's part of a bigger division which has a bigger view/goal-set.Within this division (It's part of Windows & Devices) it's just a small part and sadly for xbox, it is part of the Devices segment where other devices are part of too, which are a little bit more vital for MS' survival.

It also doesn't operate with an infinite budget, but a budget that comes from its parent, and the cancellation of this large project shows to me there are issues with keeping within that budget: investing more money to complete the project would mean the total amount of money invested in the project would become too large for them to hit their estimated revenue from this project. With a situation where there's no problem with their own budget, they would likely have taken the hit and released it because the cancellation for a high profile exclusive is bad for sales of the console and consumer perception of the brand (e.g. 'what to expect in the future? is it safe to invest my money in this console or will there be no good exclusives coming out?')

If 'scorpio' (or whatever they'll call it) won't deliver what they've promised and won't win over the customers they've lost to sony, it's game over for xbox, I'm pretty sure of it: MS doesn't need it for their survival, so any $ spend on it has to come back as a profit.
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Again I didn't say that Xbox was a separate division within MS, I said that Phil Spencer is the head of Xbox. All I said was that Phil will have goals, guidelines and objectives set by the people above him hierarchically and that they won't be looking at which specific games needs to be canceled or which should be greenlighted, that's what Spencer is supposed to do.
 
Pie and Beans said:
Oh gee, I wonder who would have pushed for such a thing.

Huh, just noticed we have millions of these Xbox Live subscriptions to sell. Whats that you say, you're making a single player game? Well...
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Yep, it's all about XBL subscriptions. They exclusively want every game they publish to sell XBL subs. If they publish one game only and it sells a lot of XBL subs and keeps players coming back all year, then that's a successful year. Anything else is a mysterious, dangerous money pit in the eyes of MS. They aren't building a games platform like Sony does or Phil Spencer might want to do. They are selling a Minecraft and online multiplayer box. If the game doesn't take full advantage of XBL features and sell subs, it had better be extremely cheap to make or else they aren't doing it.

So they tried to make Scalebound fit into that direction, but of course it's not suited for that. Platinum doesn't make the kind of games MS executives are comfortable with. The current decision makers at Xbox (excluding Phil Spencer and maybe a few others that want a traditional platform like the PS4) view the success of Xbox as having a handful of XBL titles that dedicated players keep coming back to all year, like Minecraft or whatever online multiplayer shooter has the ability to be marketed on Monster energy drink cans.

We already get that's the case for the most part, but with the cancellation of Scalebound, now we know in no uncertain terms. Platinum was desperate for a publisher and MS likely sold them a bill of goods when they contracted them. As soon as the current Xbox leadership- who understand success in the their business primarily by subscriber count- realized that they couldn't make Scalebound sell subs, Platinum was on borrowed time. That probably happened early last year. Throw in the fact that Scalebound ran like shit and likely had a long testing and polishing phase ahead, there was no way MS was staying on the hook for it.
 
Lima said:
Just for the reason why the 360 sold so well. To play the best looking and performing version of 3rd party games. You know the games people play most of the year.
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The year headstart and Sony falling flat on their face with a high price helped more than better 3rd party (or exclusives). Price and what your friends have will beat raw power everytime, especially price, just look at the PS4 Slim vs PS4 Pro as the most recent example.
 
Wolfgunblood Garopa said:
Yep, it's all about XBL subscriptions. They exclusively want every game they publish to sell XBL subs. If they publish one game only and it sells a lot of XBL subs and keeps players coming back all year, then that's a successful year. Anything else is a mysterious, dangerous money pit in the eyes of MS. They aren't building a games platform like Sony does or Phil Spencer might want to do. They are selling a Minecraft and online multiplayer box. If the game doesn't take full advantage of XBL features and sell subs, it had better be extremely cheap to make or else they aren't doing it.

So they tried to make Scalebound fit into that direction, but of course it's not suited for that. Platinum doesn't make the kind of games MS executives are comfortable with. The current decision makers at Xbox (excluding Phil Spencer and maybe a few others that want a traditional platform like the PS4) view the success of Xbox as having a handful of XBL titles that dedicated players keep coming back to all year, like Minecraft or whatever online multiplayer shooter has the ability to be marketed on Monster energy drink cans.

We already get that's the case for the most part, but with the cancellation of Scalebound, now we know in no uncertain terms. Platinum was desperate for a publisher and MS likely sold them a bill of goods when they contracted them. As soon as the current Xbox leadership- who understand success in the their business primarily by subscriber count- realized that they couldn't make Scalebound sell subs, Platinum was on borrowed time. That probably happened early last year. Throw in the fact that Scalebound ran like shit and likely had a long testing and polishing phase ahead, there was no way MS was staying on the hook for it.
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The baseless corporate fan-fiction is now reaching a crescendo. There's a story here, but writing it before hearing it is just a bad idea.
 
nekkid said:
If the only reasons you bought an XB1 were two unreleased games, what were you going to do with it before they were released? Why wouldn't you have waited?
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To be frank nothing it was collecting dust until Halo 5 and Forza H3 came out. Also MS E3s made it seem like these fucking games were right over the horizon, that is the main point here. When they took these games to the biggest gaming stage and made it look like these games are close, expect them in the next year. Why the fuck would you show a game you KNOW (this is the key word) is 4-5 years off. Yes games get pushed back but that's never the intention.
 
MisterR said:
Problem with that theory is that the 360 has a ton of strong exclusives while it was building it's base up, then it coasted on third party once it was already in the lead.
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Yes, and they were busy stealing big exclusives away from Sony as well, early in that gen. It was very much about the balance of exclusives. I don't think relative power had much to do with 360's lead. It was more about early release/mindshare, the sense that Sony really screwed up, and positive momentum.

Not that I think the theory being referred to is completely busted. I think plenty of people will pay premium dollar in order to play the best multiplatform games.
 
Leyasu said:
I must have missed that tacked on multiplayer in quantum break.
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That was more of a product of their TV TV TV push.

It's not just Live subscriptions that MS want games to push, it's their variety of broader corporate goals, regardless of how well they fit the game in question.

They have done similar for Kinect, Cloud computing, UWP, and other stuff.
 
Honestly, IF we are ever to see Scalebound (as it exists now, and that is a Giant IF), I don't see Sony swooping in to buy the IP/ Assets from MS with PG's blessing and continuous efforts tbh.
They have no relation to Kamiya or PG that I know of, and have a metric ton of exclusives (to varying degree, from temp to console to full) titles in the pipeline, both 1st and 3rd party.

I don't see Nintendo getting in either, as I think they'd prefer something developped specifically for the Switch at this point, if they're going to fund it, even partially.

Now, what I think is in the realm of possibilities is seeing Square-Enix offering a deal to MS and pay a portion of the sunken dev cost on the dollar (say 25cents on the dollar) to get the IP and assests, give the game another year in dev and make it a XB1/ PC/ PS4 title (PS4 probably delayed at least 6 months, MS would probably demand that).

The way I see it, S-E already has a relation with both parties, and could potentially make it work for both MS and PG.
 
Wolfgunblood Garopa said:
Yep, it's all about XBL subscriptions. They exclusively want every game they publish to sell XBL subs. If they publish one game only and it sells a lot of XBL subs and keeps players coming back all year, then that's a successful year. Anything else is a mysterious, dangerous money pit in the eyes of MS. They aren't building a games platform like Sony does or Phil Spencer might want to do. They are selling a Minecraft and online multiplayer box. If the game doesn't take full advantage of XBL features and sell subs, it had better be extremely cheap to make or else they aren't doing it.
Click to expand...

If you think Sony isn't in the business to encourage subscriptions or games-as-a-service type games you're sorely mistaken. DriveClub, GT Sport and even New Everybody's Golf are all first party games that have transitioned towards interconnected online experiences and are lesser games without the sub. There's a reason why they went specifically for marketing deals for titles like Destiny and Call of Duty - in game purchases for Destiny in particular would be netting them a 30% cut over the lifetime of that title.

But yes, Sony's lineup of first party titles is more diverse, and Sony also has the upper hand at this point in the generation in that they can justify a few loss leaders and it's more likely their exclusives will sell (Uncharted 4 wouldn't have sold as much as it did on Xbox One's install base) and thus be sustainable.
 
Leyasu said:
I must have missed that tacked on multiplayer in quantum break.
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QB got the weird tacked on TV show instead as that was the current "project". Now, post-Minecraft its all about multiplayer co-op and games as services. Keeping up with the politics of "whats so hot right now" is an impossible task for pretty much all games studios.
 
LewieP said:
That was more of a product of their TV TV TV push.

It's not just Live subscriptions that MS want games to push, it's their variety of broader corporate goals, regardless of how well they fit the game in question.

They have done similar for Kinect, Cloud computing, UWP, and other stuff.
Click to expand...

Not singling you out, but we are almost approaching conspiracy theory territory now.


OrbitalBeard said:
Ahhh Destiny. The one that got away.

I wonder if the concept of Destiny was pitched to MS while they still owned Bungie.
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If so, I bet that they are still kicking themselves.
 
Elandyll said:
Honestly, IF we are ever to see Scalebound (as it exists now, and that is a Giant IF), I don't see Sony swooping in to buy the IP/ Assets from MS with PG's blessing and continuous efforts tbh.
They have no relation to Kamiya or PG that I know of, and have a metric ton of exclusives (to varying degree, from temp to console to full) titles in the pipeline, both 1st and 3rd party.

I don't see Nintendo getting in either, as I think they'd prefer something developped specifically for the Switch at this point, if they're going to fund it, even partially.

Now, what I think is in the realm of possibilities is seeing Square-Enix offering a deal to MS and pay a portion of the sunken dev cost on the dollar (say 25cents on the dollar) to get the IP and assests, give the game another year in dev and make it a XB1/ PC/ PS4 title (PS4 probably delayed at least 6 months, MS would probably demand that).

The way I see it, S-E already has a relation with both parties, and could potentially make it work for both MS and PG.
Click to expand...

I think Square Enix could have potentially picked it up if it wasn't an Xbox game. That kills all commercial viability for this option.
 
A bit off topic but after digging around yesterday, all is ok in Crackdown land, though development *has* been tough (but that's game development in general).
 
Pie and Beans said:
QB got the weird tacked on TV show instead as that was the current "project". Now, post-Minecraft its all about multiplayer co-op and games as services. Keeping up with the politics of "whats so hot right now" is an impossible task for pretty much all games studios.
Click to expand...

It was about games-as-a-service from the beginning. Fable Legends was greenlit long before anyone knew how Xbox One would fare on the market, and the initial lineup of titles all included microtransactions, from Crimson Dragon to Ryse.
 
Leyasu said:
Not singling you out, but we are almost approaching conspiracy theory territory now.
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Where is the conspiracy?

I'm not arguing that this is some dastardly underhand scheme, it's just business, but I think it's not a hugely successful strategy, and it's not a strategy aligned with consistently making games be the best that they can possibly be.

You think it's just a massive coincidence that MS are a big player in cloud servers and then they had a big push for them with Xbox games? None of their execs connected those dots?
 
Honestly, I thought the game looked a bit rough, but I did plan on buying it with friends. It really sucks when any game is cancelled and it did sound like Kamiya was actually excited about the title. I hope we can get more behind the curtains info about how and why this all went down.
 
Wow, this sucks. Scalebound was looking a bit rough around the edges, but I had faith in Kamiya and Platinum to make something great, and this was probably the Xbox exclusive I was looking forward to the most. What a damn shame. :(
 
Toadthemushroom said:
If you think Sony isn't in the business to encourage games-as-a-service type games you're sorely mistaken. DriveClub, GT Sport and even New Everybody's Golf are all first party games that have transitioned towards interconnected online experiences and are lesser games without the sub.
Click to expand...

I didn't say Sony doesn't care about PS+ subs.
 
LewieP said:
Where is the conspiracy?

I'm not arguing that this is some dastardly underhand scheme, it's just business, but I think it's not a hugely successful strategy, and it's not a strategy aligned with consistently making games be the best that they can possibly be.

You think it's just a massive coincidence that MS are a big player in cloud servers and then they had a big push for them with Xbox games? None of their execs connected those dots?
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?? Online multiplayer has always been a selling point of Xbox since the og. I'm not getting how azure is now influencing something that has always been there.
 
shinobi602 said:
A bit off topic but after digging around yesterday, all is ok in Crackdown land, though development *has* been tough (but that's game development in general).
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Thanks for scooping man.

Its been pretty clear that development has been tough tho, there was supposed to be a beta in 2015...
 
I read this news yesterday and I've only just had a chance now to post about it.

I'm depressed. I legit bought my Xbone with the express purpose of playing Scalebound. I'm honestly not depressed that the game was canceled
(ok maybe a little bit)
but I'm more depressed for what this means for Microsoft's first party games.

With Scalebound being cancelled I can honestly say there isn't a single game that Microsoft has announced that I give the slightest shit about. Not a single game first party game they've shown off in the past two years (that hasn't been cancelled) has piqued my interest at all. Its like Microsoft only gives a shit about a game if its a shooter or some kind of sport/racing game.

Like, I played Gears 4 and Halo 5 (the former being better than the latter) but those games are sequels to franchises over a decade old. I'm personally more interested in new stuff. Things that aren't the same old shit we're all used to. Beyond Sunset Overdrive I can't think of a single other first party game on Xbone that's fits that description. Sunset Overdrive is also the only first party game I have on my Xbone that I've spent more than ten hours on as apposed to games like Halo and Gears with far less time put into them.

Sunset Overdrive isn't even the game I've played most on my Xbone. I've been playing more Skyrim Remastered than any other game on my Xbone (I only even got Skyrim on my Xbone is because of Sony's stupid policy on mods, otherwise I would have gotten it for my PS4). It's also been the only reason I've had to turn on the damn console in MONTHS. I can honestly count on my hands the number of times I've sat down and played a game on my Xbone. and significantly more than half of that time has been playing backwards-compatible games. Now that I thinnk about it I've probably played m WiiU more than my Xbone.

Microsoft just hasn't given me a good reason to buy anything on their console. Nothing they produce appeals to me anymore and I can't imagine that's going to change anytime soon. I'd really like for them to prove me wrong but I just can't shake the feeling that Microsoft just doesn't to leave their metaphoric comfort-zone as it were.

It's sad. I'd like my Xbone not to be just a glorified 360 emulator but it looks like its going to occupy the same place the Wii did for me last gen were it just sat on my shelf and collected dust until I wanted to play a GameCube game.

I could go on about MS's mismanaging of its projects this gen but I imagine people with more insight into that have probably already done a better job than I could.

On a happier note for Platinum fans, at least we're still getting Nier: Automata, which is looking fantastic!
 
no way Platinum survive this, right?


Star Fox Zero Bomb, Wonderful 101 Bomb, his small games (Korra, TMNT, Transformers) bomb, Bayonneta sells like what? 1 million
Nier is one of my candidate for GOTY 2017, but probably is gonna sell badly too
and now this


i feel bad for them, They are very talented
 
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