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[shanafan]

Is it better to be cancelled now or to come out and not be a very good game?

The latter.

Do you think Sean Murray would agree with that? People surely are going to think twice before they commit to his next project.

After Mighty No. 9, even Keiji Inafune's rep has taken a hit, too.

 

[family_guy]

Then why even fund it and dump millions into the project in the first place? Just to back out and fuck them over on a potentially great game, lol? I don't buy that. Even Eurogamer said that Platinum were missing deadlines, etc. Not to mention the rough as hell footage we have all seen. The game was a mess that was no longer worth the investment... period.

Well I think of something like the Last Guardian, which always looked rough and still did through launch which turned out well overall as a game despite technical issues. So some games that don't look good at first turn out great. This was also the case with DOOM, and also the case with FFXV.

 

[semiconscious]

Those games were both multiplatform though? I dont think they "stole" anything. This thread, the cancellation, and the specualtion about what happened just seems to be pissing people off more than anything. I havent seen gaf this negative in a while. Im ready to belive that microsoft was at fault here, especially after phantom dust but we should wait until we have the full story before jumping to conclusions

bah! we'd never have any fun if everyone thought like this! ...

don't even own an xbone, & i'm disappointed to hear this. &, yeah, i will refrain from playing the blame game until more info is available...

 

[Gbraga]

Of course not, it is just obvious that the game was having major issues. Even Eurogamer said as much. Which would cause Microsoft (or anyone else) to meddle and be pig-headed because they are funding it to the tune of millions. It was too ambitious and was in development hell, so Microsoft found a way to pull out of what they thought was a bad deal. That is simply what I am seeing here and nothing more.

Right, but you can't forget that Microsoft is also to blame for the game being too ambitious.

Kamiya:

But trying to make a game this big, you need someone that really believes in it and is going to support it and Microsoft sat up and did that for us. Both making the bet on the game, but also support where we don’t have the technical knowledge or get stuck. They have such a breadth of resources at their disposal that they’re able to support us.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gaming/w...ya-talks-scalebound---the-biggest-game-of-my/

He's straight up saying that Platinum is not equipped to make this game on their own, and that such an ambitious project is only possible because of Microsoft promising technical support.

Then they lack technical knowledge and get stuck, just as they predicted they would and made clear, and Microsoft doesn't pay them for a year and cancels the project?

I mean, I'm not gonna judge because I don't know the full context, but blaming Platinum because of technical issues when Microsoft's part of the deal also had to do with solving technical issues is complicated.

You can't insist they make a game this big, after they tell you they can't make a game this big, and then blame them when they can't make a game this big. That's just insanity.

 

[Peroroncino]

Is it better to be cancelled now or to come out and not be a very good game?

So far Kamiya didn't make a game I didn't like, I believe that when he'd finally decide it's ready, it'd be an awesome game.

btw. I wonder if Sony is gonna jump on this to get some easy PR, because at least one Playstation division already made a jab at MS using this mess.

There really wasn't. The one Scalebound info dump thread from last January only had about 250 posts. I wouldn't call that lots of hype.

Most people even had it as one of their predicted failures for 2017.

Not me though: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=226510014&postcount=712

 

[labx]

So, Microsoft is to blame in this one, right? Don't worry Platinum, Nier will be the Bomb...

 

[New002]

Google.com

"scalebound site:neogaf.com"

Tons of threads. Scalebound was also consistently referenced as one of the big games to look forward to on XB1.

There was lots of hype.

As someone that was hyped for Scalebound, I honestly don't think there was a lot of hype around here, and I feel like there was even less out in the normal world, outside of a gaming enthusiast website. I also feel like Scalebound was referenced as one of the big games to look forward to because Microsoft didn't seem to have much going on in 2017 as far as 1st party heavy hitters. Scalebound didn't really have to compete against a whole lot. And again, I say this all as someone that was hyped for Scalebound and is pissed about it being cancelled.

 

[Nightengale]

btw. I wonder if Sony is gonna jump on this to get some easy PR, because at least one Playstation division already made a jab at MS using this mess.

Link?

Sounds pretty unclassy to do so.

 

[TheYanger]

So far Kamiya didn't make a game I didn't like, I believe that when he'd finally decide it's ready, it'd be an awesome game.

btw. I wonder if Sony is gonna jump on this to get some easy PR, because at least one Playstation division already made a jab at MS using this mess.

"When he'd decide" - ok, so they should just throw money into a pit forever?

As someone that was hyped for Scalebound, I honestly don't think there was a lot of hype around here, and I feel like there was even less out in the normal world, outside of a gaming enthusiast website. I also feel like Scalebound was referenced as one of the big games to look forward to because Microsoft didn't seem to have much going on in 2017 as far as 1st party heavy hitters. Scalebound didn't really have to compete against a whole lot. And again, I say this all as someone that was hyped for Scalebound and is pissed about it being cancelled.

There wasn't, every time it got shown it was like "Oh, that looks really bad" - suddenly because it's a chance to make MS sound bad? Now we've got 7600 posts about a game that likely has had less than half that total in every other mention of it combined.

So? Horizon was on a ton of people's lists as well. You think people wouldn't care if it got canned?

You can't honestly think the hype for Horizon and Scalebound are even in the same league.

 

[Uno Venova]

I am not shutting down anything, lol. I am only stating what I think is the logical explanation. As I cannot believe that they would waste millions with no intention of making a great game. I simply think that they decided to stop funding what they no longer thought was worth it because it was not progressing as it should. This is just what makes sense to me. That's all.

Okay, though when you classify the very real speculation going on as people thinking Microsoft are just being spiteful dicks in favor of your own theory so it's hard to believe you think any other explanation has merit, but fair enough.

 

[Aceofspades]

Hindsight is 20/20, but I remember starkly two moments in history regarding Scalebound from Phil and Ken.

http://www.polygon.com/2014/3/24/55...x-one-exclusive-from-a-wonderful-japanese-dev



http://www.dualshockers.com/2015/01...game-ken-lobb-hypes-platinums-xbox-one-title/



Ken Lobb pls.

"the game of all time"

all time in the garbage bin maybe..

 

[wvnative]

I think it is clear there is some screwyness going on at Microsoft. First Phantom Dust now this.

I see some negativity from the game but I thought it looked dope...

To the point that it was like 40% the reason I got an Xbox One ;_;

 

[Pennywise]

This lone tweet on almost every page in this thread. Is that it? This is the confirmation that solves the mystery?

I think we will never know. Microsoft and PT probably have a strong NDA, so the truth will never come out anytime soon. Both companies will learn from this project, and move on.

Obviously not.
There will be more details sooner or later, especially since alot of people seem to know a few more interesting details.

NDA or not, there are plenty of things that will always be leaked.
Just take a look how the whole story about the cancellation even appeared.

 

[ironcreed]

Well I think of something like the Last Guardian, which always looked rough and still did through launch which turned out well overall as a game despite technical issues. So some games that don't look good at first turn out great. This was also the case with DOOM, and also the case with FFXV.

This can be true, but these are also exceptions. I suppose the one holding the purse strings ultimately has to decide if further funding is worth it or not. And unfortunately here, they decided it was not. I guess we will never know.

 

[chadskin]

Hindsight is 20/20, but I remember starkly two moments in history regarding Scalebound from Phil and Ken.

http://www.polygon.com/2014/3/24/55...x-one-exclusive-from-a-wonderful-japanese-dev



http://www.dualshockers.com/2015/01...game-ken-lobb-hypes-platinums-xbox-one-title/



Ken Lobb pls.

Seems like that's Ken Lobb's shtick:

One particularly strange moment for Darkside happened around then, when Microsoft’s Ken Lobb said on a podcast that Phantom Dust would be “about a 30-hour JRPG.” The developers were baffled. That was never part of their plan. “Nobody knew he was gonna say that,” said one Darkside staffer. “We were told by people at Microsoft that Ken just does things like that.”

http://kotaku.com/how-a-small-game-studio-almost-made-it-big-1696997142

 

[Peroroncino]

Link?

Sounds pretty unclassy to do so.

The official Playstation Poland facebook page just uploaded this:

The text roughly translates to: The dragons are already extinct, so get ready to fight the machines!

And here's the source: https://www.facebook.com/PlayStatio...2993.205010466233119/1302575019809986/?type=3

"When he'd decide" - ok, so they should just throw money into a pit forever?

I doubt it really was a PIT per se, maybe it wouldn't make much money, or it would be a total loss, but at least it'd show that MS is willing to diversify their [currently really poor imo] portfolio a bit while taking some risks, after all, their competitor is doing it. I mean it's a company that bought minecraft for 2.5 billion dollars, it's not like they can't take it.

 

[timlot]

This lone tweet on almost every page in this thread. Is that it? This is the confirmation that solves the mystery?

I think we will never know. Microsoft and PT probably have a strong NDA, so the truth will never come out anytime soon. Both companies will learn from this project, and move on.

I think we do know. Microsoft was paying for a game to be developed. Game wasn't meeting the expectations that Microsoft was paying for. Call me crazy, but if a company is spending their money developing something that isn't working out shouldn't they be able cut their losses?

 

[Weltall Zero]

You know, duckroll probably won't say it, but I absolutely will. Your position absolutely merits personal insults because your position is being a detached asshole. This is to say nothing of you as a person in any other aspect, way, shape, or form. Clearly you are not a complete asshole as we all know what complete assholes look like, where they're likely to flock, and their survival rate in an argument with a moderator. Were you a complete asshole, we'd all have a short chuckle at some snarky Kenshiro .jpg or humorous .gif. But for this one particular, narrow thread of conversation, you are an asshole. Allow me to elaborate.

You make the claim that if no one wanted to buy PG, then clearly that's because there's not enough value in their work. Yet many of their high profiles games are critical darlings among both the press and the public. Said games have traditionally sold well enough to keep their heads above water with some level of comfort, albeit with a few glaring exceptions. The industry as a whole, though, has gotten to the point where any low selling title is not just a stinging loss, but a potentially fatal blow, in part because the exact Hollywood blockbuster behavior you're suggesting. The public is too fickle and demands have risen too high for the industry standards to be sustainable. Even big names aren't immune, they simply have more resources to withstand the blow.

It is, however, a tremendously good environment for sharks to be out on the prowl for companies exactly like Platinum. PG knows they can't do the Hollywood blockbuster, they don't have the resources to soak up a failure if the whim of the public turns against it. So they temper their expectations and try to stake out a small corner of the market for themselves, which they have traditionally been quite successful at managing. But enough recent efforts have sold poorly enough that they could use an infusion of profit. Not necessarily a dying company, but ill. So when a big name like Microsoft comes along and offers the chance at getting exactly that AND sharing some of the financial burden, who wouldn't snap up the opportunity when the industry as a whole is generally scared shitless of extinction?

The problem is, Microsoft is a known shark. It has happened time and again to numerous other companies. I would say most of the time they act in 100% good faith, they're not mustache-twirling villains. But they have been proven to occasionally stab someone in the back and occasionally purchase the corpse afterwards. What option do you have, though? You either enter the contract and pray for the best, pass it up and pray someone else comes along, or pass and then lay off a quarter of your staff that trust you to put bread on their table.

This is where you're an asshole, because that last one can be just as deadly to an independent company as going bankrupt. These are not simply resources where one "re-evaluates their position in the gaming industry," these are human beings with human jobs being led by human directors. The strength of that bond is what independent companies leverage themselves on. Of course we all know the realities of any business, tough decisions have to be made now and then. But there's a reason why the comic of EA shooting Bioware in the back of the head against the backdrop of a pile of dead companies exists. When you inflate the size of something, it's much easier to distance yourself from cause and effect. And sure enough, in many instances when a company is taken over by a larger one, very little of what made the original company loved will remain. Just look at Rare for evidence there.

So while I can understand you having little sympathy for people who sign bad contracts, it's that very lack of sympathy that helps perpetuate monopolization and poor standards in an industry. And has been said before, the industry is having enough trouble as it is. But sure, maybe they should just start hunting for a buyer. Certainly the company will be the same under another company's control as it was before.

And if people are let go, why worry about that? After all, are there no workhouses? Are there no prisons? And if they would rather die, then let them, and decrease the surplus population.

Quoted for telling it how it is. Bravo.

 

[wild wild rice]

Hindsight is 20/20, but I remember starkly two moments in history regarding Scalebound from Phil and Ken.

http://www.polygon.com/2014/3/24/55...x-one-exclusive-from-a-wonderful-japanese-dev



http://www.dualshockers.com/2015/01...game-ken-lobb-hypes-platinums-xbox-one-title/



Ken Lobb pls.

Phil sounds like Trump here.

 

[sonicmj1]

Of course not, it is just obvious that the game was having major issues. Even Eurogamer said as much. Which would cause Microsoft (or anyone else) to meddle and be pig-headed because they are funding it to the tune of millions. It was too ambitious and was in development hell, so Microsoft found a way to pull out of what they thought was a bad deal. That is simply what I am seeing here and nothing more.

On multiple occasions, Bethesda has used their control over milestones and subjective quality assessments to starve independent development studios of money and attempt to buy them out for a lower price. That's how they allegedly got control over Arkane during the development of Dishonored, and that's why Human Head's Prey 2 got canceled after its impressive E3 presentation.

I'm not saying that's what happened here (Platinum is more established and more diversified than those studios), just that there can be reasons for publishers to mess with a game's development beyond concerns about quality.

 

[Hedon]

So, Microsoft is to blame in this one, right? Don't worry Platinum, Nier will be the Bomb...

Sounds like Platinum is to blame according to sources.

 

[jjasso21]

It's too bad. Most games on the XBox One don't interest me. I was waiting for titles I like to arrive before I but one. Right now I'm only interested in Horizon, Forza and the Rare titles. Cuphead also looks like a fun game.

 

[onemanasylum]

The official Playstation Poland facebook page just uploaded this:


The text roughly translates to: The dragons are already extinct, so get ready to fight the machines!

And here's the source: https://www.facebook.com/PlayStatio...2993.205010466233119/1302575019809986/?type=3



I doubt it really was a PIT per se, maybe it wouldn't make much money, or it would be a total loss, but at least it'd show that MS is willing to diversify their [currently really poor imo] portfolio a bit while taking some risks, after all, their competitor is doing it. I mean it's a company that bought minecraft for 2 billion dollars, it's not like they can't take it.

I think you are massively reaching, that was already most like;y written awhile ago, I doubt it has anything to do with scalebound.

 

[shanafan]

I think we do know. Microsoft was paying for a game to be developed. Game wasn't meeting the expectations that Microsoft was paying for. Call me crazy, but if a company is spending their money developing something that isn't working out shouldn't they be able cut their losses?

That is my opinion on this, but the other side of the argument is that Microsoft set unachievable milestones for this game and basically set this game up for failure to cut their losses.

 

[Lionel Richie]

You can't honestly think the hype for Horizon and Scalebound are even in the same league.

Scalebound was being done by the guy who created Devil May Cry, Okami and Bayonetta. Horizon from the dudes that brought you fucking Killzone. I'll take the developer's history over nonsensical hype and I'm sure so do a lot of people.

 

[TimeEffect]

I think we do know. Microsoft was paying for a game to be developed. Game wasn't meeting the expectations that Microsoft was paying for. Call me crazy, but if a company is spending their money developing something that isn't working out shouldn't they be able cut their losses?

Seems like this thread is running in circles.

Did MS cancel because devs weren't delivering, or did the devs not deliver because MS was getting involved and making things worse?

 

[Peroroncino]

I think you are massively reaching, that was already most like;y written awhile ago, I doubt it has anything to do with scalebound.

It says right there in the link: "post made 1hr ago"

But yeah, let's say it's a coincidence and I'm reaching, right.

 

[onemanasylum]

Scalebound was being done by the guy who created Devil May Cry, Okami and Bayonetta. Horizon from the dudes that brought you fucking Killzone. I'll take the developer's history over nonsensical hype and I'm sure so do a lot of people.

There is nothing nonsensical about Horizon, from all intents and purposes that games hype is legit, from people who have played it including the press. Also Killzone 2 was amazing, what's wrong with it? You act like Bayonetta and Okami are large ip's or something. Horizon is among the most looked for games of 2017, including multiplats for a reason.

It says right there in the link: "post made 1hr ago"

But yeah, let's say it's a coincidence, right.

Yes, scalebound never invented dragons.....They are referring to drakengard lol. You are jumping to conclusions.

 

[ironcreed]

Okay, though when you classify the very real speculation going on as people thinking Microsoft are just being spiteful dicks in favor of your own theory so it's hard to believe you think any other explanation has merit, but fair enough.

I actually think there is probably a lot of truth there somewhere... only with sound business reasoning behind their actions. As I refuse to believe that the game's obvious troubles were all on Microsoft making them reach for unreachable stars. Somewhere along the line, Platinum fucked up and the game was not progressing as it should and it was all downhill from there. That is just what makes sense to me.

 

[TheYanger]

Scalebound was being done by the guy who created Devil May Cry, Okami and Bayonetta. Horizon from the dudes that brought you fucking Killzone. I'll take the developer's history over nonsensical hype and I'm sure so do a lot of people.

Your point being? Scalebound has relatively low hype, has shown poorly repeatedly, Horizon has an insane amount of hype and looks awesome every time they show it. If good devs couldn't make bad games the world would be a lot different.

So many people in here acting like MS looked at the game went "Yknow, it's almost TOO good" and decided to cancel it for fear that it would ruin them somehow because of how awesome it was.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

People here on GAF were secretly curious about Scalebound despite it not showing well.

 

[Nightengale]

Scalebound was being done by the guy who created Devil May Cry, Okami and Bayonetta. Horizon from the dudes that brought you fucking Killzone. I'll take the developer's history over nonsensical hype and I'm sure so do a lot of people.

The difference for both those games is that Horizon's 2 E3 demo blew people away with demonstration of gameplay and concepts shown, in terms of polish and quality. Whereas Scalebound's demo fell flat in terms of excitement and interest.

I'm pretty sure if they showed those demos and didn't attach any developer logo to them no one would believe Horizon was made by Guerilla. Or that a Kamiya game would have such poorly designed combat in Scalebound.

Heck, a large part of why Horizon has a lot of concern is because of what you said. Despite the game having shown well, the reality that it's made by Guerilla is a looming presence that maybe it won't be good, even though it's looked good so far.

The opposite is true for Scalebound. Game has demoed poorly, but developer history of Platinum having made top-class games like Bayonetta are what makes people hopeful there'll be a turnaround before release.

 

[_Legacy_]

You can't honestly think the hype for Horizon and Scalebound are even in the same league.

I actually think they were in the same league, what makes you think otherwise?

 

[The Mad Draklor]

The official Playstation Poland facebook page just uploaded this:


The text roughly translates to: The dragons are already extinct, so get ready to fight the machines!

And here's the source: https://www.facebook.com/PlayStatio...2993.205010466233119/1302575019809986/?type=3

I doubt it really was a PIT per se, maybe it wouldn't make much money, or it would be a total loss, but at least it'd show that MS is willing to diversify their [currently really poor imo] portfolio a bit while taking some risks, after all, their competitor is doing it. I mean it's a company that bought minecraft for 2.5 billion dollars, it's not like they can't take it.

I think it's referring to the dragons from Drakengard.

 

[ironcreed]

People here on GAF were secretly curious about Scalebound despite it not showing well.

I was damn sure excited for it and never hid that fact. It had a killer concept and look.

 

[labx]

Sounds like Platinum is to blame according to sources.

I see, I still do not understand what happen.

 

[Glass Rebel]

The official Playstation Poland facebook page just uploaded this:


The text roughly translates to: The dragons are already extinct, so get ready to fight the machines!

And here's the source: https://www.facebook.com/PlayStatio...2993.205010466233119/1302575019809986/?type=3

Most likely a reference to Drakengard, which NieR is a spiritual successor of.

 

[UrbanRats]

Sounds like Platinum is to blame according to sources.

How do you figure?

 

[Peroroncino]

Most likely a reference to Drakengard, which NieR is a spiritual successor of.

I think it's referring to the dragons from Drakengard.

Judging by comments and the timing of the post (they didn't really market Nier earlier on their FB), it doesn't seem like it.

 

[Hopeford]

Man, I almost got an Xbox just for this game. Only reason I didn't is because I told myself I'd wait until it came out for a bundle haha. Guess it was a good thing I didn't get it.

 

[Calibos]

Press reporting things like that maybe ?

Of course Platinum is going to report that it was MS's fault and that they have impossible deadlines and shifting goals...every publisher ever probably has this to some degree. You don't know what you have until you actually see it and that immediately creates new ideas in your mind about what else it could be. If your Platinum and you had a falling out with MS over all of this, you are not going to come out and say that you couldn't meet your deadlines and you bit off more than you could chew.

It was a passion project for Kamiya, and sometimes those projects can continue to evolve and shift and grow over time too, without publisher interference.

At the end of the day, it really comes down to hard business facts. The publisher, who gave you an opportunity to make a game for them, is asking for things and paying for things and has deadlines and milestones. The developer is providing a service based on those asks and deadlines. I know it's not black and white, but if you, the developer, can't deliver under the publishers guidance, then they terminate the deal. The game was pushed back in early 2016 and obviously wasn't living up to the ask/expectations of the publisher, MS. But at some point, Platinum still had to say "yes" to that ask right?

here is an announcement article that really bums me out, but I can read this with hindsight and think that this is a risky endeavor from the start.

https://www.platinumgames.com/official-blog/article/6494


It's a huge loss for MS, mostly in the public eye, but I just hope it doesn't end up being the end of Platinum. Either way, I really hope we get some accurate info on what took place so people can have better opinions than "MS is Evil, the game was terrible, or Kamiya is too difficult".

 

[adversarial]

Yes, scalebound never invented dragons.....They are referring to drakengard lol. You are jumping to conclusions.

It's not a gigantic leap to put said quote and connect it to the recent "extinction" of Scalebound, tbh, but maybe it's a Drakengard thing.

 

[Bluenoser]

This.

How is it MS fault if the developers couldn't deliver on a game?

You mean besides the possibility that MS had unrealistic expectations and demands for the game, that ultimately caused the development issues, and cancellation? Yeah, besides that, it's not their fault at all.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Your point being? Scalebound has relatively low hype, has shown poorly repeatedly, Horizon has an insane amount of hype and looks awesome every time they show it. If good devs couldn't make bad games the world would be a lot different.

So many people in here acting like MS looked at the game went "Yknow, it's almost TOO good" and decided to cancel it for fear that it would ruin them somehow because of how awesome it was.

My point is that I don't think people should be dismissive of a game developed by Hideki Kamiya. Guy you quoted was answering someone else that said "most people expected" this game to suck with a reasonable argument that yeah, but a lot of people also think it's reasonable Horizon could suck and if that game got cancelled people would be angry as well. Then you dismissed that saying these games weren't in the same league for whatever reason and that's the part I disagreed with because they're very much in the same league.

 

[onemanasylum]

Judging by comments and the timing of the post, it doesn't seem like it.

Internet Comments? lol means nothing, it has nothing to do with scalebound, you are reaching.

 

[gamz]

You mean besides the possibility that MS had unrealistic expectations and demands for the game, that ultimately caused the development issues, and cancellation? Yeah, besides that, it's not their fault at all.

So you work for MS or Plat?

 

[Soul Lab]

Judging by comments and the timing of the post (they didn't really market Nier earlier on their FB), it doesn't seem like it.

Judging by comments? really? come on...

 

[stan423321]

I think you are massively reaching, that was already most like;y written awhile ago, I doubt it has anything to do with scalebound.

Enlight me, oh Great Enlighter, Why the hell did they mention dragons then? This is a clear jab. There's also picture description:

Nie zadajemy ciosów końcowych - na PS4 będziecie mogli ciachać mieczem do woli!

"We don't use finishing moves, on PS4, you'll be able to swing your blade to your heart's content!"

 

[Elandyll]

The official Playstation Poland facebook page just uploaded this:


The text roughly translates to: The dragons are already extinct, so get ready to fight the machines!

And here's the source: https://www.facebook.com/PlayStatio...2993.205010466233119/1302575019809986/?type=3

...

Most likely a reference to Drakengard, which NieR is a spiritual successor of.

I've just read some Drakengard Lore to get ready for Nier, and that is correct.
That ad has nothing to do with Scalebound, /Smh

http://drakengard.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon

 

[Bluenoser]

So you work for MS or Plat?

Must be nice to be so willfully ignorant. Read my post again. Lots of rumours going around that "development hell" was brought on by MS, so I said "possibility", not "certainty".