Scalebound cancelled [Platinum Games and Kamiya have commented]

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Principate said:
Bloodborne? Really? Bloodborne is niche as fuck in the grand scheme of things. A number of wii u first parties have outsold that game and likely MS as well.
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BB has sold over 2 million copies ( sure it about 2.5 million maybe more by now).
If also keep the hardcore happy which is very important to your platform .
Truth is Gear 4 might end up selling as much as BB so that should tell you something .

This why Sony will always have the edge over MS WW .
The have the same 3rd party games as them plus a whole bunch of other games that fill the voids .
Some of them big and some of them small.
 
StoOgE said:
Scorpio may be the make or break moment for the division. It's a chance to regain a strong footing with core gamers and see if they start to see improving sales with Halo 6, etc over the next 18 months.
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A lot has to go wrong before the division goes down the tube.
 
Tigress said:
I gotta agree with this post but I'm curious then what your thoughts on how Sony can get away with doing some SP games. Cause I agree it seems that the money these days is in MP games that have microtransactions (and trust me, I hate this and I've ranted about that before on this forum even, I hate MTs. But I think it's the reality of the market whether I like it or not. And I know that my demographic in gaming just simply can't compete for being as lucrative as that). Is Sony just losing out on making more money or is it simply they already built up a market that expects more SP experiences (and good ones) so they'd lose money by abandoning a base they already built up?

Though honestly I think you see some signs of Sony experimenting with MP and microtransactions too (but it seems less at the expense of SP experiences. But for example TLOU's MP had MTs if I remember right as well as Uncharted? And both had MP gameplay).
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The thing with Sony Tigress is much like MS built their brand around Multiplayer (they kind of had to to differentiate themselves considering the state of online play when they got into the industry) Sony built their brand around the single player offline experience. Think back to their success in PS2 and their comeback with PS3, their significant hits came off of the backs of God of War and Uncharted at a time when 1st party exclusives were much more valued in the market, catered to a cultivated market that was traditionally more entrenched in single player, narrative based and/or relatively mature experiences. Now extend that to the tentpole third party exclusive properties at the time, which similarly were all single player and heavily associated with Sony even after the franchises went multiplatform. It's really about building an audience mixed with brand perception.

Look at many of the multiplayer friendly franchises Sony owned, how many of those are still around today? Many of them shut down and the gap was filled in with strategic third party partnerships.
 
Oh shit but Scalebound was one of the first and supposedly best game Xbots threw at Sony ponies when arguing exclusives in youtube comments.

MS always has this problem they have no variety in their lineups especially exclusives.They focus too much on shooters and racers they forget there's other itches that people want scratched.Seriously the fact MS only has Halo wars 2 and Sea of Thieves to hype up for the foreseable future is sad.I mean are Scorpio owners gonna have to depend on 3rd party to bring them 4k games.
 
gundamkyoukai said:
BB has sold over 2 million copies ( sure it about 2.5 million maybe more by now).
If also keep the hardcore happy which is very important to your platform .

Truth is Gear 4 might end up selling as much as BB so that should tell you something .
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Tells you more about Gears than it does about Bloodborne. Even last gen 2 million copies was barely impressive. It's a downright mediocre result that shouldn't even be mentioned in such contexts. I can't of a single platform bar the vita where a first party title selling that amount isn't considered average at best. A reasonable proportion of Nintendo's output on the wii u is a fair bit above that if not multiples.
 
Takeru said:
I know right? It's kinda funny how they mostly listed games available in the other platforms.
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This idea that people are only playing a specific console for its exclusive is a fantasy.

People buy Xbones to play FIFA, Skyrim, Fallout, COD, RDR2, GTA etc.
 
StoOgE said:
It sounds like it wasn't coming out in '18 and they are going to take whatever budget was pointed in that direction and buy a 3rd party times exclusive or two that they can crow about at E3.

I don't disagree that the tweet came off bad. But, I'm willing to give him the "140 characters is not a lot" benefit of the doubt.
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I am hearing more and more people entertaining the ideas of Microsoft dropping some moneyhats for a few Exclusive 3rd Party Titles for release later this year or next.. And I can totally seeing them doing that and one paper it makes sense with their current 1st Party Output.


But lets think about this for a minute. Like, what type of 3rd Party Game could they lock up as an exclusive, timed or otherwise? Their 3rd Party Exclusive deals so far this gen haven't really panned out at all when it comes to sales (Titanfall maybe being the exception).

I just dont see 3rd Parties lining up to do an exclusive deal with Microsoft, and I dont see Microsoft getting the OK to spend the money it would take to secure a big name 3rd Party Title. Just from my view, they are in a weird situation now. They have tried to do the 3rd Party Exclusive money hat quite a bit this generation and it could be argued they haven't been met with great success.


So I am wondering what type of 3rd Party Exclusive game could Microsoft lock down, that would get fans excited and could possibly help sell systems, or even Scorpio? The sports games are going to be off the table. I just dont see big 3rd Party titles that Microsoft could lock down that would also make a big attention getting splash.
 
Principate said:
Tells you more about Gears than it does about Bloodborne. Even last gen 2 million copies was barely impressive. It's a downright mediocre result that shouldn't even be mentioned in such contexts. I can't of a single platform bar the vita where a first party title selling that amount isn't considered average at best. A reasonable proportion of Nintendo's output on the wii u is a fair bit above that if not multiples.
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You keep listing Wii U like it's some great comparison, but you know there was virtually nothing to buy but Nintendo's output on that console right? Millions bought the console... What else are they going to buy? When all the software sales can only be funneled into a few choices, those are naturally going to get decent numbers. Nintendo had no competition for software.

The games were great and I bought most of the Nintendo games on Wii U, so I'm not trying to say they didn't deserve the sales or anything. But had I not bought the games, I would have just had a plastic box.
 
Principate said:
Tells you more about Gears than it does about Bloodborne. Even last gen 2 million copies was barely impressive. It's a downright mediocre result that shouldn't even be mentioned in such contexts. I can't of a single platform bar the vita where a first party title selling that amount isn't considered average at best. A reasonable proportion of Nintendo's output on the wii u is a fair bit above that if not multiples.
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Nonsense, 2 million was a long time ago, it is well above that now maybe approaching 3. Not every game is going to appeal to the masses, for a RPG 2-3 million is good outside of Bethesda, CD Project that's big numbers. Even Bioware don't sell a lot more then that.

watdaeff4 said:
Trying to catch up in the discussion but everything is so all over the board.

SOme takeaways:
We don't REALLY know why it got cancelled. But there are lots of fingerpointing.

MS does not have a good upcoming 1st party lineup (either from MS studios or from partnerships)

MS is doomed and is likely leaving the console space.

Phil is on thin ice with his superiors

Lots of interesting thoughts based on the cancellation of 1 game that was never likely to be a big IP. (just going from the mixed thoughts after the E3 demo as well as the developer's track record.)


And this gem, Bloodborne, a frickin Souls Franchise cousin sells over 2 million on one platfonsidered "niche as fuck"???rm and is co?
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lol I know right?
 
Trying to catch up in the discussion but everything is so all over the board.

SOme takeaways:
We don't REALLY know why it got cancelled. But there are lots of fingerpointing.

MS does not have a good upcoming 1st party lineup (either from MS studios or from partnerships)

MS is doomed and is likely leaving the console space.

Phil is on thin ice with his superiors

Lots of interesting thoughts based on the cancellation of 1 game that was never likely to be a big IP. (just going from the mixed thoughts after the E3 demo as well as the developer's track record.)


And this gem, Bloodborne, a Souls Franchise cousin, sells over 2 million on one platform and is considered "niche as fuck"????
EDIT: oh, and to tag onto the Bloodborne discussion - while it did well for the type of game it is, I doubt it's approaching 3million unless you have some receipts to back that statement up.
 
3rdamention said:
I am hearing more and more people entertaining the ideas of Microsoft dropping some moneyhats for a few Exclusive 3rd Party Titles for release later this year or next.. And I can totally seeing them doing that and one paper it makes sense with their current 1st Party Output.


But lets think about this for a minute. Like, what type of 3rd Party Game could they lock up as an exclusive, timed or otherwise? Their 3rd Party Exclusive deals so far this gen haven't really panned out at all when it comes to sales (Titanfall maybe being the exception).

I just dont see 3rd Parties lining up to do an exclusive deal with Microsoft, and I dont see Microsoft getting the OK to spend the money it would take to secure a big name 3rd Party Title. Just from my view, they are in a weird situation now. They have tried to do the 3rd Party Exclusive money hat quite a bit this generation and it could be argued they haven't been met with great success.


So I am wondering what type of 3rd Party Exclusive game could Microsoft lock down, that would get fans excited and could possibly help sell systems, or even Scorpio? The sports games are going to be off the table. I just dont see big 3rd Party titles that Microsoft could lock down that would also make a big attention getting splash.
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At this stage, as the generation enters it's 4th year and PS4 is ahead of them by at least 2:1, I don't think they have much leverage in making 3rd party exclusive deals. People need to stop entertaining that idea because it's unrealistic. On the one hand you have the theory that the Xbox division is having its budget tightened, then on the other hand you have people speculating that they're going to buy up 3rd party exclusives? That's the exact opposite of budget tightening.

Do not expect anymore Tomb Raider deals. Not in 2017.

Principate said:
Tells you more about Gears than it does about Bloodborne. Even last gen 2 million copies was barely impressive. It's a downright mediocre result that shouldn't even be mentioned in such contexts. I can't of a single platform bar the vita where a first party title selling that amount isn't considered average at best. A reasonable proportion of Nintendo's output on the wii u is a fair bit above that if not multiples.
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It sold inline with Souls games despite being on one platform. That is impressive. You can't downplay that. Your measure of what success is seems way too narrow.
 
3rdamention said:
I am hearing more and more people entertaining the ideas of Microsoft dropping some moneyhats for a few Exclusive 3rd Party Titles for release later this year or next.. And I can totally seeing them doing that and one paper it makes sense with their current 1st Party Output.


But lets think about this for a minute. Like, what type of 3rd Party Game could they lock up as an exclusive, timed or otherwise? Their 3rd Party Exclusive deals so far this gen haven't really panned out at all when it comes to sales (Titanfall maybe being the exception).

I just dont see 3rd Parties lining up to do an exclusive deal with Microsoft, and I dont see Microsoft getting the OK to spend the money it would take to secure a big name 3rd Party Title. Just from my view, they are in a weird situation now. They have tried to do the 3rd Party Exclusive money hat quite a bit this generation and it could be argued they haven't been met with great success.


So I am wondering what type of 3rd Party Exclusive game could Microsoft lock down, that would get fans excited and could possibly help sell systems, or even Scorpio? The sports games are going to be off the table. I just dont see big 3rd Party titles that Microsoft could lock down that would also make a big attention getting splash.
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I don't really see the benefit at this point in buying timed exclusivity. They aren't in a competition to beat Sony in console sales so what's the point in keeping games away? This strategy is most effective early on in the generation when the consoles are trying to secure mindshare and be the dominant platform because then it snowballs when friends of console owners all go the same way. This many years into the generation when the dominant console has already been determined, it just makes no sense. They would have to pay a huge portion of the potential lost sales on the PS4 to the developer for not much profit potential for themselves. What would be the point?
 
I hope P* is commissioned for another big budget game soon, preferably licensed since those sell, because their work is far too good to be thrusted to Activision's budget titles.
 
Rellik said:
Someone bumped a Scalebound hype thread from months ago yesterday. It had 2 pages.
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RichiRamjag said:
Was no new footage to be hyped about tbh. What was shown wasn't great.
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"persecution complex" comments aside (which are silly btw) - like it or not there are a substantial number of posts on here that came from posters that would have never played the game so obviously the hype thread or OT thread would not have this much discussion.
 
Principate said:
Tells you more about Gears than it does about Bloodborne. Even last gen 2 million copies was barely impressive. It's a downright mediocre result that shouldn't even be mentioned in such contexts. I can't of a single platform bar the vita where a first party title selling that amount isn't considered average at best. A reasonable proportion of Nintendo's output on the wii u is a fair bit above that if not multiples.
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It's not about it being impressive ( 2 plus million not bad for one console) .
It about bringing people into your platform and locking them down .
Plus a good amount of Nintendo Wii U games did not reach 2 million plus either .
Either way it take a variety of software big and small 1st and 3rd party to bring people to your platform .
Which is something MS is lacking right now and there big IPs are getting smaller .
 
Principate said:
Tells you more about Gears than it does about Bloodborne. Even last gen 2 million copies was barely impressive. It's a downright mediocre result that shouldn't even be mentioned in such contexts. I can't of a single platform bar the vita where a first party title selling that amount isn't considered average at best. A reasonable proportion of Nintendo's output on the wii u is a fair bit above that if not multiples.
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2 million is pretty good in the world of exclusive games. It's not great but no one is going to abandon a game that sells 2 million copies (unless it went through development hell).
 
Rellik said:
Someone bumped a Scalebound hype thread from months ago yesterday. It had 2 pages.
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Baffling how the cancellation of a game which almost unanimously looked rough at showings and had fairly small buzz surrounding it could generate such talk of logic jumping fear and panic discussions / threads. You'd think it was the second coming from GAF's reaction to this.
 
Lucifon said:
Baffling how the cancellation of a game which almost unanimously looked rough at showings and had fairly small buzz surrounding it could generate such talk of logic jumping fear and panic discussions / threads. You'd think it was the second coming from GAF's reaction to this.
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It's not just about this.
 
Arttemis said:
I hope P* is commissioned for another big budget game soon, preferably licensed since those sell, because their work is far too good to be thrusted to Activision's budget titles.
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Nier Automata? How well did Transformers do cause I enjoyed it they did a fantastic job sticking to the original aesthetics.

I honestly don't want them to get too bogged down and become another Telltale games.
 
animlboogy said:
And that's the factor that's missing with MS exclusives. How many people saw Sunset Overdrive and were like, "that's gonna be the platform I go with this gen!"

No disrespect to a good game intended, it's just not that sort of game.
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To be fair, Sunset Overdrive is literally the only thing that interests me in a Xbox at this point. Still waiting on that long rumored PC port Insomniac!
 
Lucifon said:
Baffling how the cancellation of a game which almost unanimously looked rough at showings and had fairly small buzz surrounding it could generate such talk of logic jumping fear and panic discussions / threads. You'd think it was the second coming from GAF's reaction to this.
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It was the most anticipated game that would previously would've been called Xbone exclusive (before the concept ceased to exist) for 2017 on NeoGAF by a studio that has the prevalent meme about how they should take over every project.

And it's not like Scalebound was done in isolation, which you would know if you had read more than a few pages.
 
Lucifon said:
Baffling how the cancellation of a game which almost unanimously looked rough at showings and had fairly small buzz surrounding it could generate such talk of logic jumping fear and panic discussions / threads. You'd think it was the second coming from GAF's reaction to this.
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That's what I was thinking. MS cancels a game that wouldn't have sold well or moved consoles off the shelves and it means they're doomed and are readying themselves to leave the console industry.
 
FinaruDensetsu said:
Agree with almost everything here.

I'll add this. What MS did wrong happened over a decade ago. When game development costs were much lower back in the OG Xbox days and considerably lower than now, in the 360 days, they didn't work to build up a lot of titles and IP, instead focusing on a few major ones like they do now. Think about how cheap it would have been back then to foster some international studios compared to what it would cost now. That kind of strategy leads to the position they are in today.

It's kind of like that parable about the grasshopper who didn't work during spring through fall to gather food when it was easy, and suffers in the winter.

Also, what works for Valve won't necessarily work for Microsoft. Valve's online games can be played on PCs from a wide, wide spectrum from what GAF would call a "potato box" or something along those lines to the highest powered PCs, essentially something that nearly every owns.. For MS to get that kind of audience and to have the kind of profits they seek from microtransactions, they'll need people to buy into their box, and without a variety of games, that goal is made harder to reach.
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You make a lot of good points, even having a healthy stable of Multiplayer focused IP could have been very beneficial for them. I look at something like Phantom Dust and think of the lost potential, that franchise was made for Games as a Service and a very unique Japanese title that I think could have resonated with a lot of Xbox gamers during the X360 generation given investment. Titanfall was another, I was shocked that Microsoft didn't attempt to woo Respawn for that franchise after their investment with the original title. I still think Fable has potential as a Multiplayer or MMO-lite title if they wanted to go in that direction. Fable has a lot of history with the Xbox brand and was synonymous with their tentpole franchises before Gears came into the picture.

As for your Valve point I absolutely agree I was just using them as a reference point for where Microsoft would potentially like to be in the long run.
 
Lucifon said:
Baffling how the cancellation of a game which almost unanimously looked rough at showings and had fairly small buzz surrounding it could generate such talk of logic jumping fear and panic discussions / threads. You'd think it was the second coming from GAF's reaction to this.
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It's not baffling at all.....it's common sense news like this would garner a big response, and people are talking about a lot of things in this thread. Not sure what's so hard to understand about it. Maybe if you read a bit of the thread instead of jumping to conclusions you would know this.
 
it really doesnt matter the sales of bloodborne. It matters that they have a diverse roster of exclusive games that appeal to a wide variety of players. 3rd party games make players buy consoles, your first party roster is why they buy your console and not others. Right now Microsoft has a very small, and not very diverse roster of exclusive titles. Sony has a very diverse roster of exclusive titles. Nintendo has terrible third party support. Its no real surprise that Sony is selling so much better
 
animlboogy said:
See, I look at that lineup and it's a lot of solid games but nothing undeniably exceptional.

MS needs, like, their own Overwatch and their own Bloodborne. Halo is flagging, Gears 4 didn't make a great case for bringing the franchise back even if it was a solid game overall, and stuff like Quantum Break, Sunset Overdrive and ROTTR are games that most people will barely remember in 5 years.

I'm speaking in very abstract terms here, which is basically worthless, I know. There's just something missing. Xbox had Halo as the new phenomenon, and the first major impact for cRPGs on a console to support it. The 360 had Gears as the new phenomenon, and was the place for third-party games in no small part because of its superior online infrastructure.

XB1 is... some OK TPS games, more shooter sequels with diminishing returns... I'm at a loss to gather up what that lineup really communicates.

Scalebound wasn't going to turn anything around at this point, either way. MS probably needed their own Destiny or Overwatch type hit, in like 2015-16 at that.
.
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I think that's party of what Sony did so effectively in this gen. They made Destiny feel like a PS4 game that had a kind of janky version on the Xbox One.

That was MS bread and butter move on the 360.

I think MS had a ton of hopes pinned on Titanfall back at launch, and while its my favorite multi experience of this gen, it clearly was not the new CoD or Halo everyone sort of wanted it to be.

I think the problem is MS thought Halo would always be Halo. Not realizing that very very few franchises make the generational jump fully intact, and they expected Halo to make two generational jumps without losing steam.

They thought Halo was Mario, when Halo was Tomb Raider or Resident Evil.
 
Principate said:
Tells you more about Gears than it does about Bloodborne. Even last gen 2 million copies was barely impressive. It's a downright mediocre result that shouldn't even be mentioned in such contexts. I can't of a single platform bar the vita where a first party title selling that amount isn't considered average at best. A reasonable proportion of Nintendo's output on the wii u is a fair bit above that if not multiples.
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WiiU has almost nothing outside of first party games. You can't compare Nintendo attach rates to Microsoft or Sony, those systems which have literally thousands of other games vying for consumer attention
 
benny_a said:
This idea that people are only playing a specific console for its exclusive is a fantasy.

People buy Xbones to play FIFA, Skyrim, Fallout, COD, RDR2, GTA etc.
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That's certainly true but I still find it intriguing that there isn't any exclusive games listed in the survey.
 
paragonpro said:
Those games were both multiplatform though? I dont think they "stole" anything. This thread, the cancellation, and the specualtion about what happened just seems to be pissing people off more than anything. I havent seen gaf this negative in a while. Im ready to belive that microsoft was at fault here, especially after phantom dust but we should wait until we have the full story before jumping to conclusions
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Final Fantasy 13 was definitely a former PS3 exclusive (as with Versus 13) and most people expected GTA4 to be exclusive as well (based on Rockstar's relationship with Sony during the PS2 era). Yes, I should have put quotation marks on stealing but when MS announced these games for their platform that's how it felt like. And the reality is, if those games were still exclusive to PS3 (especially GTA4) then that would have been a huge boost in PS3 sales, no one can deny that.
 
ShadowSoldier89 said:
it really doesnt matter the sales of bloodborne. It matters that they have a diverse roster of exclusive games that appeal to a wide variety of players. 3rd party games make players buy consoles, your first party roster is why they buy your console and not others. Right now Microsoft has a very small, and not very diverse roster of exclusive titles. Sony has a very diverse roster of exclusive titles. Nintendo has terrible third party support. Its no real surprise that Sony is selling so much better
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Does it matter?

Or does it matter to us sperglords on GAF that play niche games that sell less than 8 million?
 
The size of this thread seems pretty justified considering Microsoft's output & cancellations this generation, this being the most anticipated exclusive for the XB1 and Platinum being one of the more beloved developers here.

I don't know why that would concern someone anyway, the thread is mostly on topic, unless you just don't like large threads that are negative dealing with your favorite company.
 
NoHeDidn't said:
Nier Automata? How well did Transformers do cause I enjoyed it they did a fantastic job sticking to the original aesthetics.

I honestly don't want them to get too bogged down and become another Telltale games.
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That's about to go gold and release. They need work after that. And p* has worked on three concurrent titles most of their company's life.
 
ShadowSoldier89 said:
it really doesnt matter the sales of bloodborne. It matters that they have a diverse roster of exclusive games that appeal to a wide variety of players. 3rd party games make players buy consoles, your first party roster is why they buy your console and not others. Right now Microsoft has a very small, and not very diverse roster of exclusive titles. Sony has a very diverse roster of exclusive titles. Nintendo has terrible third party support. Its no real surprise that Sony is selling so much better
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My guess is MS has good internal metrics that show that a lot of the games they were paying for early in the 360 days and in the OG Xbox days didn't have the sort of impact that 'common knowledge' supported. i.e., I'm willing to bet that a wide breadth of first party exclusives does not in fact sell that many consoles and that individual games are not enough for most people to pull the trigger on a 300 dollar system.

My guess is early buzz + early install base = your friends are playing Madden or CoD or whatever on PS4, and that is very difficult to overcome.

I'm sure there is an impact on things like TLG and Bloodborne, but I think it's more positive buzz and goodwill with alpha gamers then it is something that measurably moves the needle.

MS isn't a dumb company, my guess is big data mining has not proven the link that we all like to believe exists between niche first party releases and install base growth.
 
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