Scalebound cancelled [Platinum Games and Kamiya have commented]

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matrix-cat said:
I'd love to see an exposé article on this at some point. Kamiya, with his 20+ years of experience, and Platinum, a company with a ten year history of signing contracts, delivering on time and working amicably with Sega, Konami, Nintendo, Activision and now Square-Enix, yet somehow it all goes pear-shaped as soon as they partner up with Microsoft.
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Scalebound was by far Platinum's biggest game in budget, scale, and scope so it's difficulties and complications isn't necessarily analogous to other partnerships and development.
 
duckroll said:
The problem isn't really "Microsoft" so much as what Microsoft wanted though. Let's be real here. If Microsoft tapped them to make a character action title like they did with Team Ninja and Ninja Gaiden, this probably wouldn't have happened.

From the looks of things Microsoft wanted a big AAA action RPG blockbuster. A game with customization, open world elements, multiplayer, etc. Platinum Games felt they could deliver on that, or that it would at least be a worthwhile challenge to tackle.

Kamiya with his 20+ years of experience has never made a full fledged RPG. As a studio Platinum has never worked on the Xbox One. This was also JP's first game as a producer as far as I recall. None of this is a knock against them, but to present Scalebound as a normal project isn't the right way of looking at it. This was a risk for everyone.
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I don't think anyone is disputing that, but you have to think, if PG just made a somewhat open world type game or large levels with exploration which they have in the past and have it just be combat with dragon mechanics and a decent story. You think they wouldn't be able to deliver that? I feel they could have, but if MS wanted a redesign of the main character to make it more identifiable for the west, and have a on going online hub for monster matches and bosses it seems like it muddies the water.

But until someone comes out with what happened it's kind of left to the vague tweets that allude to MS meddling.
 
duckroll said:
The problem isn't really "Microsoft" so much as what Microsoft wanted though. Let's be real here. If Microsoft tapped them to make a character action title like they did with Team Ninja and Ninja Gaiden, this probably wouldn't have happened.

From the looks of things Microsoft wanted a big AAA action RPG blockbuster. A game with customization, open world elements, multiplayer, etc. Platinum Games felt they could deliver on that, or that it would at least be a worthwhile challenge to tackle.

Kamiya with his 20+ years of experience has never made a full fledged RPG. As a studio Platinum has never worked on the Xbox One. This was also JP's first game as a producer as far as I recall. None of this is a knock against them, but to present Scalebound as a normal project isn't the right way of looking at it. This was a risk for everyone.
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It most likely was their biggest risk and project as a company. Real shame to see it go down like we're witnessing currently. But ultimately, the publisher pays the bills and decides when to turn the lights off.
 
WordsintheWater said:
Are you guys really surprised controversial things are discussed more? That's literally how everything works.
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Of Couse not. This is 2017 and the internet, lol

Personally I don't find it interesting and controversial at all, but that's just me :)
I do find the human nature behind this stuff interesting, tho
 
digoutyoursoul said:
I'm not purposely ignoring anything at all
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You wrote

Considering how this thread has gone it's probably the most the game itself has been discussed on this forum
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This thread has grown so large because people discuss the game (for example distractors trashing it), people being concerned about Platinums future, Xbox future lineup of exclusives, Microsoft ties with japanese developers, Microsoft generally treatment of partners and of course the discussion with whiners that this thread is so big.

There is much more to discuss than NeoGAFs most anticipated 2017 Xbox One exclusive. You either purposefully ignore that or...
 
Papacheeks said:
I don't think anyone is disputing that, but you have to think, if PG just made a somewhat open world type game or large levels with exploration which they have in the past and have it just be combat with dragon mechanics and a decent story. You think they wouldn't be able to deliver that? I feel they could have, but if MS wanted a redesign of the main character to make it more identifiable for the west, and have a on going online hub for monster matches and bosses it seems like it muddies the water.

But until someone comes out with what happened it's kind of left to the vague tweets that allude to MS meddling.
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I don't think it's entirely that simple. Ultimately, I think Kamiya also had very ambitious ideas of what he wanted the game to be, and maybe those weren't in sync with what MS expected either, or what they were willing to pay for. The entire outcome is really unfortunate. I don't think Platinum Games would have been unable to deliver on a game in the end regardless, I think MS just decided that it wasn't working out the way they wanted. It's tough for a developer taking risks when the publisher lacks confidence or doesn't see eye to eye with them. The combination of MS and the scope of the project is likely what killed the project, not MS alone.
 
digoutyoursoul said:
The controversy? No

I am surprised by how many were keen to play it
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I can understand that

hanspampel said:
Of Couse not. This is 2017 and the internet, lol

Personally I don't find it interesting and controversial at all, but that's just me :)
I do find the human nature behind this stuff interesting, tho
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If anything has shady undertones, people want to find out what actually happened. Not saying that in this case things were shady for sure, but some evidence points that way. Even if not I would still be interested, was the game that much of a shit show, were they not getting along? Human curiosity always gets peaked with things like that.
 
duckroll said:
I don't think it's entirely that simple. Ultimately, I think Kamiya also had very ambitious ideas of what he wanted the game to be, and maybe those weren't in sync with what MS expected either, or what they were willing to pay for. The entire outcome is really unfortunate. I don't think Platinum Games would have been unable to deliver on a game in the end regardless, I think MS just decided that it wasn't working out the way they wanted. It's tough for a developer taking risks when the publisher lacks confidence or doesn't see eye to eye with them. The combination of MS and the scope of the project is likely what killed the project, not MS alone.
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Totally agree on those points. I think that one word basically describes MS outlook on new IP's and how they treat them, Confidence.

You have to believe in the concept, to me the concept is a action game with great combat, amazing artstyle, and something new and fresh for different demographics. If you dont think the basics are enough for that game to succeed then it will in essence fall apart.
 
Oersted said:
You wrote



This thread has grown so large because people discuss the game (for example distractors trashing it), people being concerned about Platinums future, Xbox future lineup of exclusives, Microsoft ties with japanese developers, Microsoft generally treatment of partners and of course the discussion with whiners that this thread is so big.

There is much more to discuss than NeoGAFs most anticipated 2017 Xbox One exclusive. You either purposefully ignore that or...
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I should of elaborated originally, what I meant was being discussed in a manner of so many being disappointed to be missing out on the game when previously I didn't see much of that.but that's just my browsing experience of the forum and I of course could be way way wrong.

I wasn't purposefully ignoring anything or being deliberately obtuse as you are alluding to.
 
hanspampel said:
Of Couse not. This is 2017 and the internet, lol

Personally I don't find it interesting and controversial at all, but that's just me :)
I do find the human nature behind this stuff interesting, tho
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This point is beaten to death, but needs to be emphasized again. It's controversial because this game has been shown on the big stage three times, but the end result is a flat-out cancellation. Projects get canceled all the time. However, very rarely do they get canceled like this, if ever.
 
digoutyoursoul said:
I should of elaborated originally, what I meant was being discussed in a manner of so many being disappointed to be missing out on the game when previously I didn't see much of that.but that's just my browsing experience of the forum and I of course could be way way wrong.

I wasn't purposefully ignoring anything or being deliberately obtuse as you are alluding to.
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I wouldn't be that surprised that the most anticipated Xbox One exclusive on NeoGAF was the most anticipated Xbox One exclusive on NeoGAF.

But that is just me.
 
chubigans said:
Oh he definitely did:

Gwmc6jg.jpg
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I'm speechless. The mental gymnastics...
 
5Twist said:
This point is beaten to death, but needs to be emphasized again. It's controversial because this game has been shown on the big stage three times, but the end result is a flat-out cancellation. Projects get canceled all the time. However, very rarely do they get canceled like this, if ever.
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I dunno, honestly think the biggest reason is that this is a Platinum Games title directed by Kamiya. It resonates with the crowd here very strongly, even if sales don't always reflect it. It's obvious Scalebound isn't the most important XB1 game nor is this cancellation a huge mainstream impact.

I mean look at how we reacted to much worse news:

Disney Closes Game Publisher LucasArts, 150 laid off, 1313 and First Assault canceled: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=534168 (24 pages)

Lionhead Studios and Press Play closed. Fable legends cancelled: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1194651 (75 pages)

These are major studios closing down, hundreds of people losing their jobs. On the other hand, we're on page 170 of Scalebound. It's comparable to The Last Guardian's rumored cancellation way back. Another cult favorite which resonates strongly with the audience here but isn't always reflected in commercial success.
 
duckroll said:
I don't think it's entirely that simple. Ultimately, I think Kamiya also had very ambitious ideas of what he wanted the game to be, and maybe those weren't in sync with what MS expected either, or what they were willing to pay for. The entire outcome is really unfortunate. I don't think Platinum Games would have been unable to deliver on a game in the end regardless, I think MS just decided that it wasn't working out the way they wanted. It's tough for a developer taking risks when the publisher lacks confidence or doesn't see eye to eye with them. The combination of MS and the scope of the project is likely what killed the project, not MS alone.
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I think a good paralel could be AW, that game was announced in 2005 and it didn't went gold until April 2010. Five years for a game that ended being a linear TPS game, I feel that obviously Remedy missed milestones and that the project had a rocky development, yet MS had confidence in the product and the product is something that they wanted even after 5 years later.

I'm sure that the scope of the game, being Kamiya first big open world RPG (and the studio), new engine and various factors clearly made the development, very difficult. But if the game was still something MS wanted in their future portfolio, if it was a game they had confidence in the sales, I'm sure they would have supported the game until completition, milestones missed or not.
 
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Sydle said:
The only houses at MS according to their CEO are Windows, Office, and Azure. He aligned everything MS does to aid those three pillars.

Unless you meant outside of MS?
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It's the total opposite of what happen with Sony .
When people heard Kaz was taking over Sony there were happy .
Someone from the gaming part was the head of the company so they understood how things work .
It became one of the pillars of the company and people knew the gaming part would get a bigger focus .
 
Even if we were to accept Okami as a RPG for the sake of the discussion, I think the game design in Okami differs significantly from what they were going for in Scalebound. I mean, is it really debatable that Scalebound is a project Platinum and the staff at Platinum have never tackled before? They even say so themselves in interviews. That's what made the potential so exciting.
 
pje122 said:
Really splitting hairs here. That game is pretty damn 'full-fledged', though.
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I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying he made small games. I'm saying he has never made a RPG which has the sort of systems and world design Scalebound would require.
 
icespide said:
thinking a game will bomb and looking forward to the game are different things. I'm super excited for Gravity Rush 2 but I know it will sell 500 copies
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All I am saying is I was surprised at the amount of reactions of disappointment in the sense of intent to buy this game when I didn't get that impression before this news.
 
duckroll said:
I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying he made small games. I'm saying he has never made a RPG which has the sort of systems and world design Scalebound would require.
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That's fine. Just as a reverent lover of Okami that original statement I quoted bothered me. Man I love that game.
 
silva1991 said:
The best Zelda game.
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My point was more of a matter of scale, customization and different mechanics and systems more typical of an RPG, that aren't present on Okami.

Okami sure was a big project, but Scalebound was on another level.

Hey, I didn't like Okami than much, but opinions and all...
 
digoutyoursoul said:
All I am saying is I was surprised at the amount of reactions of disappointment in the sense of intent to buy this game when I didn't get that impression before this news.
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It's a lot easier to feign outrage than put out $50-60. They weren't going to buy it.

I actually was looking forward to it. Not much I care about on Xbone this year and I dig most of Platinum's stuff. I was in at $20.
 
vonStirlitz said:
I think part of the reaction is a general feeling of wariness about MS and uncertainty about where they are taking the brand.

Frankly, Scalebound wasn't on my radar, and I am not a huge fan of Platinum Games. I do, however, have a concern that MS have pulled multiple projects, have a shallow offering for 2017, are diluting the significance of Xbox by allowing cross-sales of software on PC, and have given little indication about Scorpio. I think others share these concerns, which probably explains why a great number of posts come across as critical of MS rather than overly supportive of the IP, and in this sense the Scalebound cancellation is a trigger point for a lot of underlying angst, rather than a real reaction in respect of this IP (after all, as you note, other IPs were cancelled with less fallout).
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I agree with this .
With what has happening with MS this gen scalebound getting cancel brought up other stuff .
 
Lemme put it this way. When Kamiya talks passionately about Scalebound and what he wants to explore with the game, he doesn't talk about making a bigger and badder Okami. He talked about Sorcerian instead. I found that very interesting.
 
duckroll said:
Lemme put it this way. When Kamiya talks passionately about Scalebound and what he wants to explore with the game, he doesn't talk about making a bigger and badder Okami. He talked about Sorcerian instead. I found that very interesting.
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That's a deep cut. Haven't seen a game like Sorcerian in forever. I wonder what he meant.
 
duckroll said:
Lemme put it this way. When Kamiya talks passionately about Scalebound and what he wants to explore with the game, he doesn't talk about making a bigger and badder Okami. He talked about Sorcerian instead. I found that very interesting.
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Man,

I hope Kamiya recovers from the hit of seeing his dreamgame gone. :(
 
Relaxed Muscle said:
Man,

I hope Kamiya recovers from the hit of seeing his dreamgame gone. :(
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It seems like he could resurrect it in another form. That Doctor_Cupcakes video earlier in the thread stated that the original concept of the game sound like it was single player as it was about a young girl and a dragon. So, maybe he can get someone to fund it in that form?
 
duckroll said:
I dunno, honestly think the biggest reason is that this is a Platinum Games title directed by Kamiya. It resonates with the crowd here very strongly, even if sales don't always reflect it. It's obvious Scalebound isn't the most important XB1 game nor is this cancellation a huge mainstream impact.

I mean look at how we reacted to much worse news:

Disney Closes Game Publisher LucasArts, 150 laid off, 1313 and First Assault canceled: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=534168 (24 pages)

Lionhead Studios and Press Play closed. Fable legends cancelled: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1194651 (75 pages)

These are major studios closing down, hundreds of people losing their jobs. On the other hand, we're on page 170 of Scalebound. It's comparable to The Last Guardian's rumored cancellation way back. Another cult favorite which resonates strongly with the audience here but isn't always reflected in commercial success.
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This what I have been saying though, until this thread, from my own experience browsing here I didn't get the impression it had cult status or resonates strongly. It couldn't even get into the GAF top 20 here

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1330634
 
digoutyoursoul said:
This what I have been saying though, until this thread, from my own experience browsing here I didn't get the impression it had cult status or resonates strongly. It couldn't even get into the GAF top 20 here

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1330634
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It's a Kamiya game at the end of the day. People wanted it just because he really doesn't miss. And now that it's canned it means that we'll likely go seven or so years between his next release and W101.
 
Nightengale said:
Or if rumours are true, scale the game's design ambition down, by removing features that impact the game's ability to run on XB1.
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And what happens if one of those features is being an open world with platinum gameplay, do they just start the project over?

Scaling the game down, after spending money and 4 years on a project isn't exactly the most exciting prospect either and could mean a complete reset.
 
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