10m of those only played Wii Sports anyway
You said exclusives shift console, of course they do, but its nowhere near what you make them out to be atm.
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10m of those only played Wii Sports anyway
You said exclusives shift console, of course they do, but its nowhere near what you make them out to be atm.
I love the "They are niche!", "They aren't AAA", "Who?", and "They don't sell!", well keep laughing, I'll be keep on enjoying a large variety of games on PS4 as will a lot of other people. The japanese games give me breaks from the western games and is one of the reasons I buy PS. Along with ND of course.
Think of it this way, all the niche exclusives have a couple hundred thousand fans, every niche/AA exclusive eventually adds up to millions of fans who enjoy ps4's library of Japanese, AA and indie games.
Couple hundred thousand for persona
Couple hundred thousand for Bloodborne
Couple hundred thousand for Ni No Kuni
Couple hundred thousand for Yakuza
Couple hundred thousand for Nier
Couple hundred thousand for Nioh
Couple hundred thousand for Kinddom hearts
Couple hundred thousand for Ratchet and Clank
etc
etc
etc
They all add up.
Think of it this way, all the niche exclusives have a couple hundred thousand fans, every niche/AA exclusive eventually adds up to millions of fans who enjoy ps4's library of Japanese, AA and indie games.
Couple hundred thousand for persona
Couple hundred thousand for Bloodborne
Couple hundred thousand for Ni No Kuni
Couple hundred thousand for Yakuza
Couple hundred thousand for Nier
Couple hundred thousand for Nioh
Couple hundred thousand for Kinddom hearts
Couple hundred thousand for Ratchet and Clank
etc
etc
etc
They all add up.
Delpij
Member
Not in terms of sales, indeed. But that's like saying people only buy console for the top-selling games, that's absurd.
If you have a great number of quality games that sells well enough, as a hardware owner you feel like the ROI is good and you're pretty right about that.
It's the developers support that makes the console success. If they are still around and active, it's also because - their - ROI is good.
It's an ecosystem.
onemanasylum
Banned
10m of those only played Wii Sports anyway
You said exclusives shift console, of course they do, but its nowhere near what you make them out to be atm.
It's the biggest reason Playstation is such a strong global brand, diversity and variety imo.
Assuming this is sarcasm?
Delpij
Member
This.
IncognitoPanda
Member
Hell, people just know that PS4 gets games, most aren't waiting for one specific title. Plus the only console with that Japanese support
2B sees into the future, you must trust.
It's about offering a library, not just the biggest titles. A diverse, deep library of games ranging from A to AAA, from indies to games from billion-dollar publishers.
It's one of the reasons why the PS2's library is still remembered fondly to this day. There's so many gems there that never saw billions of sales but are revered by certain audiences.
That kind of a library is worth striving for and what makes people come back to Playstation.
Dumbing this conversation down to just the five biggest games in the business is missing the point.
Thanks for contributing.
It's one of the reasons why the PS2's library is still remembered fondly to this day. There's so many gems there that never saw billions of sales but are revered by certain audiences.
That kind of a library is worth striving for and what makes people come back to Playstation.
Dumbing this conversation down to just the five biggest games in the business is missing the point.
Thanks for contributing.
Bits N Pieces
Member
Thread is a shit show.
Dash_Riprock
Member
No just your post.
They opened the generation hyping a big new AAA stealth/spy IP from Black Tusk, including an E3 teaser trailer completely fabricated from whole cloth and let it float out there like it wasn't absolute bullshit. Then it disappeared and next thing we know Black Tusk is now The Coalition and assigned to turn out Gears games into perpetuity.
They hyped Scalebound at E3 2014, it's now cancelled.
That same E3 they hyped Phantom Dust, also with a complete fabrication of a teaser trailer, by one developer's account have churned through some studios, and the game is coming along so well that when Scalebound was cancelled it didn't even get mentioned on their PR release for upcoming 2017 titles.
Fable Legends was shown and hyped at a time when Lionhead was just hollowed out in terms of staffing. They kept acting like it was a real product. Turns out all the concern related to them having two big rounds of layoffs at the studio leading up to the Fable Legends hype was rather legitimate.
Project Knoxville was cancelled and the studio closed to, in MS' own words, "focus its investment and development on the games and franchises that fans find most exciting and want to play".
This goes along with MS' history of hyping games only to can them. Titles like True Fantasy Live Online and B.C. on Xbox, Project Milo and Project Spark, both show hyped X360 games that never turned into anything, not to mention cancelled partnership projects like Halo: Chronicles and Marvel Universe Online.
It isn't even that MS cancels games. Everyone does. Cancelling the Obsidian project and the like is similar to things that both Sony and Nintendo have done. But MS has a long history of coming to trade shows, showing "conceptual video" of a game no where near that developmental state, letting everyone make assumptions, then when reality sets in a few years later taking the project out back and shooting it while hoping no one notices.
Serious gamers, the kind of people who post here, buy systems for the games we expect to come. MS' entire strategy here is to get this group hyped for their system assuming we won't actually ever hold them accountable for these absurdly early showings that with a sad frequency never even make it out the door. It's made worse by the fact that many of these projects were clearly falsified technically just to make something look cool and their cancellations either reveal that there was no "there" there (Black Tusk's game, B.C.) or that the tech simply didn't work. (Project Spark, Milo)
Everyone has changes in staffing. Sony has closed a lot of their GB studios, but this is an industry-wide phenomenon because it simply isn't worth operating out of GB to employ European talent when many eastern European countries cost far, far less for more or less the same staff. So while Sony has been reducing GB staff they've been rapidly expanding Guerrilla Games. They've also clearly been increasing the staffing at Bend (previously about 60 people, too small for a game like Days Gone), likely the same at Naughty Dog as it moves into a full two titles at once cycle.
But that is largely because Sony's best use of capital as a company is generally pushing out more software, so they're willing to invest in more studios and more titles in the pipeline. They've had some major hiccups themselves this generation, namely Sony Santa Monica's cancelled project. But unlike MS that's a title Sony didn't hint at or tease at all prior to cancelling.
MS meanwhile really needs a title to justify it's expense versus just rolling out more enterprise servers when it comes to how capital is divided. Sony's CEO game from the gaming side. His #2 then is now the head of Sony Worldwide. Playstation is their flagship. Nadella came from the part of MS that actually makes huge stacks of cash and likely looks at Spencer about the same way Sony looks at whomever is running their television manufacturing division. A poor place to allocate capital compared to other in-house options.
Gran Turismo Sport is likely a 2017 title and I'd give it a damn good shot against Mass Effect: Andromeda. ME2 sold 4.8M units as of November 2014, ME3 sold 900K on the X360 it's first month and that was said to be 4:1 compared to the PS3 version, so about 1.1M in the first month.
Meanwhile Gran Turismo 6 sold over 5M copies, half of what Gran Turismo 5 sold in large part because it released the same holiday season as the PS4. That was when the Playstation was less the "it" console too. Now Sony is back on top and have the muscle to push GT like they used to. I'm not betting on it getting back over 10M sales but more than GT6 seems very likely.
Other than that I'm expecting Spider-Man to hit in 2017 as that's the release of the movie, Insomniac put out Sunset Overdrive in 2014 and R&C in early 2016, they have more or less the equivalent of 2.5 studios worth of staff and I doubt Song of the Deep took up a ton of people, same with their other smaller side projects. A quality movie tie in game is likely to have at least as big a marketing impact as anything short of the really big AAA franchises.
Lastly, God of War is, according to Barlog, fully playable start to finish as of December and now in polishing. I'm betting it won't be a 2017 release because Sony always likes to drag one big heavy hitter into the spring season and the re-introduction of God of War is a great choice for that. But I wouldn't be surprised if it makes it out in 2017 still either. Obviously God of War is kind of a big deal (the previous mainline entries sold 4.6M, 4.2M, and 5.1M respectively).
While they may have a strong brand the exclusives don't seem to match that in overall sales to third party games which is what looks to be shipping consoles.
I have a feeling a RDR2 bundle would sell more than their exclusives
Most definitely this. Has always been about the depth and variety of the library. Something for almost everyone.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Jup, I suppose Horizon will outsell every single XBOX game arriving in 2017, even if they don't bundle it (which they most likely will at some point).
EDIT
Great post and a very interesting summary, Drek.
Well thought out post. Worth the read.
rokkerkory
Member
I hope that the big 3 all are successful because it is good for us as consumers.
All 3 have challenges coming up including MS which always seems to be the underdog.
Hope that gives them the oomph they need to push forward and succeed. They need to hit it out of the park with scorpio as does nintendo with the switch as does sony with PSVR.
All 3 have challenges coming up including MS which always seems to be the underdog.
Hope that gives them the oomph they need to push forward and succeed. They need to hit it out of the park with scorpio as does nintendo with the switch as does sony with PSVR.
Again, this is not what it's about. The PS4 has both. Why would you assume playstation owners disregard the biggest third-party titles in favor of first-party? No, they'll buy what appeals to them from a huge library of games. They'll buy third party blockbusters AND whatever else appeals to them.
This diversity is what drives the hardcore gamers. Not everyone needs to buy Yakuza 0 and I doubt that many casual PS4 owners even know what the game is.
But on communities like GAF this game is going to be huge.
Same with titles like Bloodborne. It's far and away some of the finest time i've spent with a controller in my hand and yet it's not topping sales charts. Who gives a shit?
I have a feeling a RDR2 bundle would sell more than their exclusives
So? Is this a bad thing? Is it a pride thing?
I personally don't give a damn about RDR so i'm pretty glad Sony is putting in the effort to cater to my tastes with lesser known games all year long.
While they may have a strong brand the exclusives don't seem to match that in overall sales to third party games which is what looks to be shipping consoles.
I have a feeling a RDR2 bundle would sell more than their exclusives
Sure, but that's because RDR2 will sell 15M copies versus Uncharted's measly 12M or Gran Turismo's 10M.
You are right in that the full breadth of 3rd party games are typically what causes a person to buy a new console. But when that person is deciding which console to buy they often look at exclusives to decide which one to get.
It isn't "1st party games sell Playstations". It's "1st party games make people choose Playstation over Xbox once they'e already decided to buy a new console".
Also, this isn't accomplished by having one big flagship. If that was the case MS could still get by with Halo headlining every three years. Gaming is more diversified than ever though so a broad library of exclusives enables Sony to target subsets within the market.
Johnny RPG decides he's going next gen because he heard this new Final Fantasy is way better than the last one. So he goes looking and sees that the PS4 is also getting Persona 5, Nier, and Ni No Kuni. None on the Xbox. It also gets FF7:Remake first, his favorite game ever. Well, easy decision for him now, huh?
Bobby McBlockbuster is getting a console to play CoD with his bros and some GTA/RDR. Figures "damn, that Uncharted bundle is a nice deal, game looks like playing an Indiana Jones movie!"
Harry Harcore wants a new Souls box. The PS4 also has Bloodborne. Sold.
See how it goes? Sony's first party hits a broad swath of the spectrum, getting people into the ecosystem for the major 3rd parties and one or two of their first party titles. Then they pick up secondary sales when people already own the system and try out some other games. This is how they make games like R&C continue to be viable.
This is a myth. We are a high dollar market and will get something to service us. Succeeding despite poor and/or disingenuous business decisions is inherently bad for the consumer because it rewards, or at least fails to punish, abusing the consumer.
Nintendo for example deliver shit hardware and exploitative digital rights, legacy library support, accessory prices, etc.. They're never held accountable because their core gamer just keeps bending over and taking it. Nintendo doesn't need to do better because their core will continue to drag them to profitability. Maybe if just once they had to eat some real failure they'd become a bit more consumer friendly. Sony sure did after getting punished for "get a second job" PS3 era Sony.
right on the first three.
fables legends was a real product, though. i was in the beta. it wasn't that good. probably wasn't worth the investment, but to say it wasn't a real product is silly.
project knoxville was cancelled because it was a game fans voted for, but then none played the beta. there wasn't any true interest for it, it seemed like.
what tech didn't work in project spark? i just thought that was something else that nobody played and they couldn't bring interest to, even with dumb fanservice like the conker thing. it couldn't compete with minecraft, which they own, and roblox which is on their system.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Right, it isn't just about cancelling games because all of the big three have cancelled games we have heard nothing about.
It is specifically announcing big games, showing them off in trailers, promoting them as reasons to be excited for the console they are on and finally cancelling them to the point where nothing more is done with the game at all.
That is not something Sony and Nintendo have done. It isn't to attack MS or anything either. These are just the facts of the situation.
Great post btw.
A lot of interesting views and well worth the read and I appreciate the response.
I had no idea about Bend so I appreciate the information about that too and more people seem to start EEU studios, that is true.
I do recall the whole SM thing too.
Also in addition to Spencer you're probably right on. I feel that even through the PR speak he genuinely have great ideas and a vision for Xbox and Windows as a whole but keeps getting the short end of the stick or having to change things by request from the higher up.
This is probably true for most. I was just pointing out that Exclusives is not the one selling the most consoles but them and the third party support do help to flip it to their advantage.
So there's nothing to argue against there.
Ploid 3.0
Member
I wonder if Insomniac had a good experience making Sunset Overdrive with Microsoft? If they didn't snag the role of making Spider-Man (a IP they don't own, sure, but it's a huge IP) if they would be working on the next SSO with Microsoft. Maybe after Spider-Man, can it be too successful for them to work on anything but a second Spider-Man, or Marvel game? Will Marvel like it so much that they force Ted to sell Insomniac?
Believe they had. They said they want to make SO2. But is up to MS.
onemanasylum
Banned
Not debating that, rockstar are massive, but exclusives do still matter imo.While they may have a strong brand the exclusives don't seem to match that in overall sales to third party games which is what looks to be shipping consoles.
I have a feeling a RDR2 bundle would sell more than their exclusives
Exactly, you put it way better then me, I am not very articulate lol.
I haven't heard anything negative about it. MS did market the hell out of SSO.
I hope they do. It was a nice refresher that sadly didn't grab me as much as I wanted it too but maybe the 2nd time around as a Anywhere title and some refining.
Yes but to what you said it came across as exclusives being sole responsible for most of them which I disagree with. I do think that they play a role in flipping a sale towars the console after the third party.
So yes they do matter, I just think we disagree as to what degree.
This seems to be the core incompatibility between Microsoft's business culture and console industry expectations, though. Sony sells two million copies of Killzone, which doesn't even begin to compete with CoD or Battlefield - but it's still two million copies, still ten or twenty million extra dollars in the company's coffers and a value-perceived title to give away with PS+.
This also leads to the manic swings in strategy, as one manager after another bets his career on a concept that fails first or second milestone and is purged until a few other failures come over the board. Scalebound is the wreckage of, what, MS's fourth attempt to pile all their Japan eggs in the basket of one or two famous creators? Fifth? Always falling back to "welp we got nothing, who even cares" rather than smaller projects from smaller names.
Humdinger
Gold Member
Ridiculous. I would make a long list of SP games that say hi, but it's not worth the time.
Right. SP gamers who only play on Xbox are going to be hurting. MS looks to be focusing on multiplayer online games and milking, er monetizing those games as services.
Indeed, indeed.... *places hands in steeple formation*
Great post!
I'm only going to quote one small part of it though ...
To follow up on this:
The E3 2014 Phantom Dust trailer, which I thought looked pretty interesting, was made completely without Darkside's input, or Darkside's assets. It was two minutes of 100% fabricated bullshit that had nothing to do with the eventually cancelled game.
I'm only going to quote one small part of it though ...
To follow up on this:
The E3 2014 Phantom Dust trailer, which I thought looked pretty interesting, was made completely without Darkside's input, or Darkside's assets. It was two minutes of 100% fabricated bullshit that had nothing to do with the eventually cancelled game.
quickwhips
Member
There are hundred of titles that are indie on Xbox if you just browse the store.
chromatic9
Member
When you look at what was shown at past E3's by Microsoft and then cancelled, it really kills some of the hype now. Sony may take a while sometimes but at least they get released.
makingmusic476
Member
The last game they cancelled was Stig/SSM's new IP, iirc, which was never actually announced. And that was years ago.
Quite different from what we've seen from Microsoft.
Man it's gonna suck we're going to have threads like these frequently all the way up to E3. Any chance of any games or plans being announced before then? Or are we just going to assume Phil is either reading all these posts/tweets/articles laughing knowing everything is cool, or crying because he knows it's all too real 
Nightengale
Member
Man it's gonna suck we're going to have threads like these frequently all the way up to E3. Any chance of any games or plans being announced before then? Or are we just going to assume Phil is either reading all these posts/tweets/articles laughing knowing everything is cool, or crying because he knows it's all too real
We might hear "plans" before E3. If they hold a dedicated Scorpio event before E3, then maybe we'll get one game announcement there?
But in general, MS's practice the past few years has been laser-focus on E3 as their premiere games reveal stage, so I don't expect them to show their games card till E3.
Personally I don't think it'll be too hard for Microsoft to drum up excitement during e3, going by their history. The year they announced phantom dust and scalebound, I believe a good portion of the games shown were CG. People still felt they had a good show. If Ms doesn't really have much it n the pipeline, I think we will see a repeat of that strategy. They usually slate their games for fall, so we probably get gameplay of those (crackdown, halo wars). Throw in some 3rd party multiplatform games and smaller indie projects. You've got a the Scorpio breakdown (price, design, and graphics highlight on some titles). Any future games can be CG no matter how far out they are (or if they even exist now or even later). So maybe a halo 6 teaser and some other title they can pump up (like recore). They even made trailers for a controller in the past, so they can pad it out...And I think they can coast pass less discerning eyes.
hanspampel
Banned
you know that is a hyperbole respond to a hyperbowl article?!
sure there are plenty games left. but not as many as people are used to
Galactic Barret
Member
XBO gamers will be fine. They'll have all the western multiplatform games and a few more third party exclusives. The Big 3. If you're an Xbox person, this is what you expected when you bought it.
The big problem comes with the person on the fence, walking into a Gamestop and seeing the wall of games that each side has already released, and the associates selling them on what's coming out next. That is where Microsoft will lose sales in the short-term.
They'll have their games in the fall and the Scorpio around that time as well; their release schedule should be known to almost every gamer in the Xbox ecosystem by now. It just isn't visually enticing for bringing in newcomers.
The big problem comes with the person on the fence, walking into a Gamestop and seeing the wall of games that each side has already released, and the associates selling them on what's coming out next. That is where Microsoft will lose sales in the short-term.
They'll have their games in the fall and the Scorpio around that time as well; their release schedule should be known to almost every gamer in the Xbox ecosystem by now. It just isn't visually enticing for bringing in newcomers.
I can see it now, E3 will come and they'll have some aces under their sleeves while GAF will be like, "who cares if they look good, they'll get cancelled anyway *yawn*".
E3 2017 version of "what's the point of buying the console with Play Anywhere".
Man it's gonna suck we're going to have threads like these frequently all the way up to E3. Any chance of any games or plans being announced before then? Or are we just going to assume Phil is either reading all these posts/tweets/articles laughing knowing everything is cool, or crying because he knows it's all too real
Can't be worse than last year's massive amounts of "Xbox isn't worth it because Play Anywhere exists" threads. At least this one is worth the oodles of discussion, to a certain extent.
foolishoptimist
Member
Another Rise of the Tomb Raider situation seems likely. What already announced multi-platform game can they buy timed-exclusivity for?
Nightengale
Member
Well, for historical comparison's sake...
2013: Titanfall (1yr timed => lifetime), Peggle 2 (1yr timed), PvZ: Garden Warfare (6m timed)
2014: ROTR (1 yr timed)
2015: Ashen (timed => lifetime) Cuphead (timed => lifetime)
2016: Dead Rising 4 (1yr timed)
None of above titles were announced multiplat. Most came out the gate announced with it having being timed. Even ROTR was announced without a platform attached, probably since they were still discussing terms at the time. Cuphead, Ashen and Titanfall were already announced but got a sweetener deal for lifetime exclusivity.
So if we do see another one of those kind, it'd probably be a new announcement that has been kept in the sleeves.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Does no one consider Gears and Halo to be narrative driven games?
By no means Smash it's second tier. I'm pretty sure Smash out sold Zelda on Wii (And would have on Wii U).
Zelda still one of Nintendo biggest franchise news related, but if we speak with sells in mind, Smash and Mario Kart are bigger.
My opinion. Just like everyone here have them.
______________________________________
Ive been enjoying MS IPs and exclusives (besides Ryse, haven't played it) this generation. I'm still bummed by the cancellation of Scalebound, but I'm still looking forward to Sea of Thieves and Crackdown 3.
onemanasylum
Banned
EDIT, Wrong thread.
Vital Tundra
Member
Hey now. Ratchet, Kingdom Hearts, and Persona are million+ sellers. In fact KH as a series has passed 20 million a couple years ago.
Papacheeks
Banned
Halo maybe, I felt Halo 4 and reach really tried at least to push narrative within their given confinements.
Halo 4 I thought was doing some great things that I thought pushed MC out of the one dimension.
But they really did nothing with that in Halo 5 or at least tried to pursue it more.
Gears well outside of Marcus and Dom there's not much there.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
But there's a story and a single player is what I'm trying to say. They put as much into it as their multiplayer.
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