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[HStallion]

GG is awful, but she fails to stick the landing.

The vast majority of enemies you kill in AAA games are men. Look at ND games as well. It's mostly dudes you are killing.

So how are games profiteering from misogyny here? God of War and it's a T and A fare?

You could say the rather disgusting groups that can establish themselves in online heavy games and how they treat people, women especially, as a way big gaming companies are making bank off of misogyny. No these companies and developers aren't telling men to go out there and hate women, treat them like things, and be horrible to them but in many cases they don't do much about it or out right ignore the fact and let the wound fester with their complacency on the issue. You could even say the complacency of other gamers during these moments of misogyny online are as much a part of the problem and I'm certainly guilty for not chiming in during a death match when someone starts saying some pretty disgusting stuff to a woman, a minority or anyone else.

 

[entremet]

Ignoring the technicalities of her comment, I'm not sure that I agree with equating the representation issues with the games industry with the abuse perpetrated by GG. They're two separate issues and one is clearly more harmful than the other.

These are my thoughts.

They're very different and require different approaches both long and short term.

 

[Arkeband]

No it's not. In all of the games, you have sex with willing women, and it's off-screen. There was no sex in Ascension. In 3 there was a questionable sequence where you

Spoiler

sacrificed a naked woman to open a door

. So I guess that's one instance out of 6 games in the series. Hardly embarassing.

Plus it leans heavily on Greek mythology. Orgies are the norm.

The scene in 3 was "excusable" because that's the game - he indiscriminately kills everything.

It was the developers (ultimately, Stig Asmussen) who choose trophy names and who elevated it to some Duterte "aw shucks I wish I would have had my way with her first" shit. What Kratos did was fucked up but they warped into something far more depraved.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

See this is the thing though. The industry itself can't really do much other than say it's wrong and they don't share those views. And obviously be more supportive of people being harassed by this group.

It starts at the top though. I mean you look at games like LoL that have horrible communities. What are people doing to combat that?

Specifically calling out GG by name instead of dancing around them would be a good start.

 

[4Tran]

The point is that things haven't gotten much better in the game industry and community, despite everyone disapproving GamerGate. I wonder if she is aware of Dead or Alive Xtreme.

The problem is that not everyone disapproves of Gamergate - if they did, then it would be a nonissue. What's happening is that a lot of people support it in broad strokes and become defensive anytime games get criticized. Often this defensiveness rears its ugly head by taking one part of the greater argument and focusing on it to take attention away from the overall message. You may have seen examples of this kind of thing.

On a slightly different note, when people, especially women in general, criticize video games for negative depictions of women, they're generally not talking about titles like Dead or Alive Xtreme. Those games are obviously geared towards sex appeal, and are generally less of an issue than titles where misogyny is normalized by being in more mainstream games. Likewise, when feminists decry the portrayal of women in Hollywood, how women are depicted in pornography isn't particularly pertinent.

 

[Nerazar]

I think with GTA it sort of starts getting into the issue of a lack of balance. There's not really a big GTA-equivalent game with (a) female protagonist(s) and GTA itself hasn't had female protagonists, either. I also don't think that you can, for example, hire any male prostitutes in GTA games, etc. I don't think GTA would be quite as problematic if it were more balanced in that regard or if the industry as a whole was more balanced in that regard but it isn't and that's what can make it a bit of a problem.

True enough. With GTA we had Gay Tony as a more diverse character, but there were no female leads so far, that's true. However, I would predict an outcry if women were depicted as sociopathic mass murderers (aka 'the protagonist'), thieves and pimps, all of which were part of the GTA formula. Not that I wouldn't play it, but there is a certain tendency to connect crime to male characters, not to female ones. Women with bad personalities would also balance things out, but is that something that is on the table?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Anyway, I agree with her. It's even small stuff like Shepard punching that reporter. I never thought it was funny, it just seemed really unnecessary.

This particular examples strikes me as being just as ridiculous as the people complaining in Suicide Squad about Batman punching Harley, or Slipknot punching a woman. It has nothing to do with the context or characters and solely because the person on the receiving end is a woman.

And I can understand the argument that it encourages casual violence against women, but I don't think that's a valid example of something that does that

 

[nelsonroyale]

Yeah, personally I think there is a need for more female characters heading big budget games, but it isn't so bad. Even the depiction of women in Gears or say Uncharted, is pretty decent I think. So things have improved. Too many games, particularly the Japanese ones include women in skimpy dresses, clearly designed for the male gaze.

God of War was particularly bad because people would justify it with it's setting.



There's no deeper meaning to why Kratos did what he did.

I agree, although Kratos is horrible to everyone...man or woman.

 

[Nicko]

Agree with everything she said. The mysogengy and sexualization of women in video games has seriously got to stop. It's feeding into and encouraging these awful, toxic, and destructive behaviors by our young adults and teens. You can take a stance and say it's wrong to lash out at women, but when you put this content into your media, you're no better.

I'm looking at you FFXV Cindy.

 

[Mael]

Ignoring the technicalities of her comment, I'm not sure that I agree with equating the representation issues with the games industry with the abuse perpetrated by GG. They're two separate issues and one is clearly more harmful than the other.

The question is more how did the industry react?
Well some devs went online to say that "abuse is bad, stop doing that whoever it is you are" without naming anyone because god forbid they lose a customer.
And some other going full shite like Dyack claiming to support the "movement".
So yeah not a shinning example either.
Heck they didn't even send a vid educating people about using a mute button or reasserting their rules about curbing abuse on their services.
That is more telling than the tepid response Blizzard gave in that shitty award show.

 

[lensoftruth]

No it's not. In all of the games, you have sex with willing women, and it's off-screen. There was no sex in Ascension. In 3 there was a questionable sequence where you

Spoiler

sacrificed a naked woman to open a door

. So I guess that's one instance out of 6 games in the series. Hardly embarassing.

Plus it leans heavily on Greek mythology. Orgies are the norm.

it's a cheesy immature hack and slash game with tits and ridiculous sex mini games. It's the very definition of embarrassing - I wouldn't play it in front of the mrs

 

[perfectchaos007]

True enough. With GTA we had Gay Tony as a more diverse character, but there were no female leads so far, that's true. However, I would predict an outcry if women were depicted as sociopathic mass murderers (aka 'the protagonist'), thieves and pimps, all of which were part of the GTA formula. Not that I wouldn't play it, but there is a certain tendency to connect crime to male characters, not to female ones. Women with bad personalities would also balance things out, but is that something that is on the table?

Depending on who you ask, a female GTA protagonist that's just as hardcore as the male counterparts could be seen as empowering.

 

[prag16]

Well Tomb Raider (2013) had some really gruesome death scenes and went out of their way to hurt Lara. In the very beginning of the game she gets punched in the face and then has a large nail stabbed in her gut. I'm sure that the developers had no ill intent but I know it bothered people.

Anyway, I agree with her. It's even small stuff like Shepard punching that reporter. I never thought it was funny, it just seemed really unnecessary.

Are you saying that Lara dies gruesomely and Emily Wong gets punched in the face because they're women? It's okay for these things to happen to men in games, but not women? Wouldn't it be MORE sexist if these things never happened to women in games and only to men?

Whatever you're arguing, I don't follow.

Depending on who you ask, a female GTA protagonist that's just as hardcore as the male counterparts could be seen as empowering.

Or it could be seen as damaging examples to set for young women/girls. I actually had somebody tell me in a thread last year that it would be inconceivable for Rey to even dabble with the darkside due to how damaging it would be to girls enjoying Star Wars and looking up to her.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

"You’re still making billions of dollars off games that maim and dump women for sport.”

we talking guro stuff or what

god of war games immediately spring to mind.

 

[uomoartificiale]

I didn't see the video yet, but from the OP alone I cannot disagree to the general message especially in the case of the gaming press. I always thought that most voices I respected stayed silent or danced around the issue, even if I know that they absolutely abhorred the GG movement and message. The whole "we are a gaming site, so we don't talk about politics" was such a bullshit imo, especially now that those same people, now that the storm has descalated somehow, talk like they openly opposed the movement.

Everybody knowing that you don't agree with GG =/= opposing GG

I won't name name, also because I really like and respect those people ad I don't want my comment to be misconstrued as an attack.

Spoiler

Also I know that choosing to get you and yoiur family get harrased online is not a easy choice to make.

 

[Alienous]

"when you’re still making billions of dollars off games that maim and dump women for sport"

And she lost me.

It's impossible to debate if we're not being to be dealing in reality.

 

[firelogic]

This trophy in 3 was pretty unsettling in retrospect:

I didn't do it... But I wish I did!
Kill the Poseidon Princess

...refers to choosing not to rape a naked woman. Instead, you throw her into a grinder.

How is that about rape? The trophy itself is Kill the Poseidon Princess and the tagline is, I didn't do it but I wish I did. As in, "I didn't kill her because it was the heavy door and her getting caught in the gears that killed her but I wish I had killed her directly."

Not saying that's a great thing to wish for but it's certainly not referencing rape.

 

[spectator]

The mysogengy and sexualization of women in video games has seriously got to stop. It's feeding into and encouraging these awful, toxic, and destructive behaviors by our young adults and teens.

That's a bold claim.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Depending on who you ask, a female GTA protagonist that's just as hardcore as the male counterparts could be seen as empowering.

Rocksteady's next Batman game!

Spoiler

Starring Harley Quinn and Ivy

Let out your collective groans now, because I can see such a game happening even if it isn't from them

 

[Purple Cheeto]

People referring to GG in the past tense as if it is over and not an ongoing daily thing.

 

[Griss]

Agree with everything she said. The mysogengy and sexualization of women in video games has seriously got to stop. It's feeding into and encouraging these awful, toxic, and destructive behaviors by our young adults and teens. You can take a stance and say it's wrong to lash out at women, but when you put this content into your media, you're no better.

I'm looking at you FFXV Cindy.

As for Cindy, is having a scantily clad NPC in a game (where at least one of the male characters is also scantily clad) really misogyny? As in 'dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women'?

I don't think so, personally. It's just a bit of fanservice, one that plenty of people seemed to disapprove of, as is their right, but one that I personally enjoyed while playing the game, in the same way I imagine I might have enjoyed Gladiolus's design if I were gay.

It's cheap, sure, but does it signify dislike of women? I can't see that.

 

[Alienous]

god of war games immediately spring to mind.

I'm pretty sure Kratos is an equal-opportunity killer. Him not killing women would be sexist, actually.

 

[Riposte]

I think with GTA it sort of starts getting into the issue of a lack of balance. There's not really a big GTA-equivalent game with (a) female protagonist(s) and GTA itself hasn't had female protagonists, either. I also don't think that you can, for example, hire any male prostitutes in GTA games, etc. I don't think GTA would be quite as problematic if it were more balanced in that regard or if the industry as a whole was more balanced in that regard but it isn't and that's what can make it a bit of a problem.

I think the later Saint's Rows would be considered an equivalent. Even if we ignore the Mass Effect-like custom main character, the supporting cast includes women who get in on the action.

 

[Harlequin]

True enough. With GTA we had Gay Tony as a more diverse character, but there were no female leads so far, that's true. However, I would predict an outcry if women were depicted as sociopathic mass murderers (aka 'the protagonist'), thieves and pimps, all of which were part of the GTA formula. Not that I wouldn't play it, but there is a certain tendency to connect crime to male characters, not to female ones. Women with bad personalities would also balance things out, but is that something that is on the table?

I personally think it absolutely should be on the table. Representation cannot just be limited to likeable, "good" characters or to having certain stereotypical character traits, roles or personalities. But, of course, that's just my personal opinion which may well differ from what the public at large or gamers at large think.

 

[Plum]

You could say the rather disgusting groups that can establish themselves in online heavy games and how they treat people, women especially, as a way big gaming companies are making bank off of misogyny. No these companies and developers aren't telling men to go out there and hate women, treat them like things, and be horrible to them but in many cases they don't do much about it or out right ignore the fact and let the wound fester with their complacency on the issue. You could even say the complacency of other gamers during these moments of misogyny online are as much a part of the problem and I'm certainly guilty for not chiming in during a death match when someone starts saying some pretty disgusting stuff to a woman, a minority or anyone else.

Sadly I think it's a profit motive holding any major progress back on this issue. The mass of shitbags who perpetuate this crap has grown large enough, especially for more PC-focused games like OW, League and CS:GO, that making a stance and banning abuse like that will only lead to lower returns which the publishers, those who have the most power, wouldn't want. Just take the backlash Overwatch changing "gg ez" had and amplify it by 100. I think to fix the issue you'd have to push for change in the community before anything else, because as long as those kinds of people are buying lootboxes and knife skins they're gonna be allowed in.

 

[Arkage]

it's a cheesy immature hack and slash game with tits and ridiculous sex mini games. It's the very definition of embarrassing - I wouldn't play it in front of the mrs

I've played it in front of the Mrs, and she finds their interpretation of Greek mythology interesting. Though she also finds videogames in general boring, so didn't watch much of it. Sometimes things like this aren't a big deal, depending upon who you're married to.

 

[yunbuns]

Depending on who you ask, a female GTA protagonist that's just as hardcore as the male counterparts could be seen as empowering.

It would be awesome imo. I always liked Catalina.

This particular examples strikes me as being just as ridiculous as the people complaining in Suicide Squad about Batman punching Harley, or Slipknot punching a woman. It has nothing to do with the context or characters and solely because the person on the receiving end is a woman.

And I can understand the argument that it encourages casual violence against women, but I don't think that's a valid example of something that does that

Are you saying that Lara dies gruesomely and Emily Wong gets punched in the face because they're women? It's okay for these things to happen to men in games, but not women? Wouldn't it be MORE sexist if these things never happened to women in games and only to men?

Whatever you're arguing, I don't follow.

Maybe you two should read the entire thread.

 

[thepenguin55]

Well Tomb Raider (2013) had some really gruesome death scenes and went out of their way to hurt Lara. In the very beginning of the game she gets punched in the face and then has a large nail stabbed in her gut. I'm sure that the developers had no ill intent but I know it bothered people.

Anyway, I agree with her. It's even small stuff like Shepard punching that reporter. I never thought it was funny, it just seemed really unnecessary.

What I don't get whenever people bring this up is that gender is not important to that moment at all. What's great about that moment is decking a shitty reporter in the face. It could've been an Elcor and I still would have lost my shit. I mean, people always forget about the innocent dude on Eden Prime who is clearly disturbed that you can punch in the face which is far more messed up in my opinion. Even then, going Renegade in an ME game should allow you to be a jerk as that's kind of the point of being a renegade in those games.
Anyway, there are much bigger things you could pick out about the representation of women in Mass Effect that are much more problematic than punching the reporter.

Also, Ashley Judd is aiming in the wrong direction. She needs to aim her vitriol at publishers, not the game developers. Her heart is in the right place but she doesn't seem to understand the industry well enough to know how it works.

 

[Squire]

I can, and there are many games that while not directly doing this, portray women very problematically.

However, I think it best to focus on her actual message instead of pushing back on a very small piece of her point.

It's not a small inaccuracy though, it's a mischaracterization. It's the reason when you read an article or watch a video essay by, just as an example, Feminist Frequency, they're documenting very specific cases of sexism and/or mysoginy and asking the industry and the consumer audience as wholes to care about these issues and push to do and be better in the ways that they can.

I've never seen FF or any other feminist critic take on any one specific publisher (or developer) because there seem to be so few if any cases of a single company just putting out any sort of long stretch of mysoginist games.

How do you know the exec trying to appeal to her didn't work for Nintendo? Or Capcom? Or Square Enix? Those are big companies that I don't think anyone would say profit off games that maim and dump women if they ever publish any like that all. (Obviously Capcom makes tons of titles with zombies, but I do t think it's ever been noted that any disproportionately feature female zombies.)

It's a blanket statement to shut down engagement. Calling a concerned member of the industry that's obviously open to the discussion and on at least a similar wavelength a "hypocrite" when they just plain old may very well not be one weakens her argument. I do understand where it's coming from and she's perfectly within her right to be frustrated, but this doesn't make for good discourse in any area where you want to affect change.

 

[jph139]

Why is it that when people bring up Lara in TR, hooker-murdering in GTA, and those sorts of things, other people say "but you can brutally murder EVERYBODY in games!" as if that's the same exact thing?

It's fundamentally different when predominantly male designers and programers turn women into digital objects for predominately male audiences to treat as such. It's a perfectly valid criticism.

You can argue whether creative freedom should trump female discomfort (however minor), sure, but don't pretend like that discomfort isn't real.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

True. It was the chance for the whole industry to call out misogynists and take a stance in favour of diversity.

They failed, and even some decided to stand in the wrong side. And was a decision that will have repercusions for many years.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Sure I agree with that.

*Reads OP*

Wha?

 

[collige]

The question is more how did the industry react?
Well some devs went online to say that "abuse is bad, stop doing that whoever it is you are" without naming anyone because god forbid they lose a customer.
And some other going full shite like Dyack claiming to support the "movement".
So yeah not a shinning example either.
Heck they didn't even send a vid educating people about using a mute button or reasserting their rules about curbing abuse on their services.
That is more telling than the tepid response Blizzard gave in that shitty award show.

Sure, but her argument isn't that the industry didn't do enough to fight GG, it's that fighting GG while realeasing games as they exist today is inherently hypocritical on the part of the industry.

 

[Nerazar]

Depending on who you ask, a female GTA protagonist that's just as hardcore as the male counterparts could be seen as empowering.

I would also see it as empowering, but there are fringe activists who would see that differently. Some of them don't want both sides of the deal: the good *and* the bad parts.

I mean: the first thing you would see in your mind, if someones says "crime" or "criminal" would be a man, wouldn't it? Also: greed, drugs, gangs etc. always men.

Opening up that door to include women will not be universally approved by feminist activists, since it could damage the image of an ideal female character in their minds.

 

[lensoftruth]

I've played it in front of the Mrs, and she finds their interpretation of Greek mythology interesting. Though she also finds videogames in general boring, so didn't watch much of it. Sometimes things like this aren't a big deal, depending upon who you're married to.

Of course it's not a big deal. I just don't want her taking the piss out of me for playing it

 

[Lime]

I get the base of the message, and I do agree with it, but I wonder if they're actually making money out of it, specifically.

Like, do we have data that indicates that better treatment of women (and minorities in general) will lead to worse sales? This is the first time I'm seeing this particular reasoning, to be honest. I always assumed it had to do with the devs' mentalities, and not just making something they think will sell.

Like, having an amazing female lead that is also gay in The Last of Us: Part II, will it hurt sales? I personally can't see that happening at all. I'm expecting typical Naughty Dog amazing sales.

They're only profitting off of it in the sense that games have it and they make money when games sell. I don't think it's a direct decision of treating women like shit so they can sell to GamerGate.

If it was, I don't think we'd be seeing improvement from AAA companies, as we certainly did. We know there was some pushback from Sony on Aloy being a woman, but it probably wouldn't stop at "some pushback" if they thought it would actually make the game a financial disaster. And even then, I can't imagine that Guerrilla would portray the game's female characters poorly if the protagonist was a man.

One of the points made for diversity is precisely broadening the target audience, making more people feel like the game is for them, which can lead to a larger userbase. In other words, speaking in publisher language.

"You're still making billions of dollars off games that maim and dump women for sport."

we talking guro stuff or what

But her actual message is that 'profiteering off misogyny must end', and it's hard to see how anyone is profiteering off misogyny in the games industry.

Like, the point needs to be elaborated on so I can tell if I agree with it, you know?

Are people seriously arguing that the games industry hasn't profiteered from misogyny? Seriously? Yet in other threads I hear "but misogyny/sexism/racism sells" or "this is what the straight male audience wants, the free market decides!" as excuses for the status quo.

I wonder why game publishers and developers sexually objectify their female characters, hire booth babes at conventions, use sex in their marketing, and so forth. Surely it's not because they think it will sell more and that they will make more money by doubling down on the (white) straight male demographic.

 

[Harlequin]

I think the later Saint's Rows would be considered an equivalent. Even if we ignore the Mass Effect-like custom main character, the supporting cast includes women who get in on the action.

Ah, fair enough, though I'm not sure if those ever really became big enough to consider them GTA-equivalent? (I also have never played them so cannot judge whether they really count.)

 

[Bronetta]

Im not understanding what her argument is? There are terrible people everywhere: sports fans, music fans, etc. Gamers dont have some monopoly on terrible people saying or doing terrible things.

Sounds like a case of putting devs and publishers in a place to deal with a problem thats out of their control.


If we're talking bad writing and characterization, that comes down to devs and writers needing to improve their quality overall.

 

[HoodWinked]

this echos of this shit from years ago where someone that doesn't have enough information to make an opinion thinks they're some moral authority on something then makes sweeping generalizations about how they "think" things actually are.

Based Geoff Keighley
https://youtu.be/PKzF173GqTU?t=1m19s

the good thing is that the women in this debate did eventually change her opinion.

 

[Alienous]

Why is it that when people bring up Lara in TR, hooker-murdering in GTA, and those sorts of things, other people say "but you can brutally murder EVERYBODY in games!" as if that's the same exact thing?

Because that's a sign that it has nothing to do with gender. That there isn't a gender-bias when it comes to violence.

It's fundamentally different when predominantly male designers and programers turn women into digital objects for predominately male audiences to treat as such. It's a perfectly valid criticism.

So how should women be represented in games? They should be treated differently to male characters - they should be virtually cosseted? That's what I'm getting from what you're saying.

You can argue whether creative freedom should trump female discomfort (however minor), sure, but don't pretend like that discomfort isn't real.

Well, I'm certainly not pretending it isn't real. But I do think there are valid arguments for where it's unjustified.

 

[Riposte]

Ah, fair enough, though I'm not sure if those ever really became big enough to consider them GTA-equivalent?

Haha, well, actually, almost nothing equals GTA when it comes how big that audience. V did absolutely crazy numbers between all the platforms it sold on. SR is a pretty close neighbor in terms of genre.

 

[Mael]

Sure, but her argument isn't that the industry didn't do enough to fight GG, it's that fighting GG while realeasing games as they exist today is inherently hypocritical on the part of the industry.

It's not that they fought GG at ALL.
They did nothing.
Blizzard, ATVI, EA and co are raking in the millions while profiteering from the abuse levied by a part of their fanbase.
They keep pushing the same status quo games that are heavy on the mysoginy because that's the audience they fostered.
Her argument is that they claim to have done everything they could while the reality is something else entirely.
I guess if GG PoV is the normal you don't see a problem with the industry and its treatment of anything outside the normalized version of the world they're representing in their products.

 

[ryseing]

If you saw her speech at the Women's March last Saturday you wouldn't be surprised to see her speaking out about this.

Yeah, she is a pretty darn important figure in the Deep South. Wouldn't shock me in the slightest to see her run for Senate in Kentucky next time a seat opens.

 

[Griss]

Are people seriously arguing that the games industry hasn't profiteered from misogyny? Seriously? Yet in other threads I hear "but misogyny/sexism/racism sells" or "this is what the straight male audience wants, the free market decides!" as excuses for the status quo.

I wonder why game publishers and developers sexually objectify their female characters, hire booth babes at conventions, use sex in their marketing, and so forth. Surely it's not because they think it will sell more and that they will make more money by doubling down on the (white) straight male demographic.

Sexual objectification is not misogyny. Misogyny is a dislike or hatred of women.

Something like DoA Xtreme 3 is not misogynistic or even sexist in any way, for example.

 

[specdot]

The short answer is
-Ex boyfriend posts shit about Zoe Quinn (a game dev) online
-4chan gets ahold of the post and decides to harass her
-They decide to make it look like she was having relationships with media members to get 'publicity' - again this is just to justify the harassment and was totally baseless
-This somehow becomes a huge group that realises they can harass people under the guise of protesting for 'ethics in games journalism'.
-Some innocent people get suckered in by that slogan but most of them are quintessential 4chan trolls out to upset people and spark shit
-Hatred of women in the games industry is the golden thread tying the whole thing together

I haven't followed it since the start as it bores and annoys me but that was the genesis of it all. Can't put it all more concisely than that.

Hmm. Interesting. Thanks for the reply. Gamer Gate is dumb.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

this echos of this shit from years ago where someone that doesn't have enough information to make an opinion thinks they're some moral authority on something then makes sweeping generalizations about how they "think" things actually are.

Based Geoff Keighley
https://youtu.be/PKzF173GqTU?t=1m19s

the good thing is that the women in this debate did eventually change her opinion.

Everyone knows a good deal about video games now. We're not living in the Jack Thompson era. It's fair for her to have this argument that frankly a lot of us here have been echoing for quite some time. Your also talking about a women who is a very important figure fighting for equal rights.

 

[SapientWolf]

Are people seriously arguing that the games industry hasn't profiteered from misogyny? Seriously? Yet in other threads I hear "but misogyny/sexism/racism sells" or "this is what the straight male audience wants, the free market decides!" as excuses for the status quo.

Well, we need specific examples because I don't understand what she's asking for here

“I’m so tired of hearing you talk to me,” Judd said, pretending to rebut a seemingly private conversation she recently had with an industry professional, “about how deplorable hashtag-GamerGate was when you’re still making billions of dollars off games that maim and dump women for sport.”

Most AAA games are violent, and if devs don't include women in their games then that's gender discrimination.

 

[Alienous]

Are people seriously arguing that the games industry hasn't profiteered from misogyny? Seriously? Yet in other threads I hear "but misogyny/sexism/racism sells" or "this is what the straight male audience wants, the free market decides!" as excuses for the status quo.

I wonder why game publishers and developers sexually objectify their female characters, hire booth babes at conventions, use sex in their marketing, and so forth.

Sex is getting away from the point.

This was the assertion from Ashely Judd: "You’re still making billions of dollars off games that maim and dump women for sport". And let's not conflate it with how games are sold on the sexual representations of female characters.

Which games, specifically, are making "billions of dollars off games that maim and dump women for sport"?

 

[Acquiescence]

Go home Ashley Judd, you're drunk. Stick to music please.

I think you're getting confused with that Azealia Banks chick who's in Final Fantasy.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Why is it that when people bring up Lara in TR, hooker-murdering in GTA, and those sorts of things, other people say "but you can brutally murder EVERYBODY in games!" as if that's the same exact thing?

It's fundamentally different when predominantly male designers and programers turn women into digital objects for predominately male audiences to treat as such. It's a perfectly valid criticism.

You can argue whether creative freedom should trump female discomfort (however minor), sure, but don't pretend like that discomfort isn't real.

So the male pixels don't matter, only the female ones? That seems kinda...sexist.