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[LordRaptor]

I mean, curation in terms of aligning more closely what Steam users want to buy and what gets accepted on the store front. A sort of 'pre-order to get it on Steam' campaign seems quite reasonable in achieving this goal, more so than an arbitrary up-front fee.

Potential customers registering interest in a title is basically what greenlight already was...

 

[CyanideFuse]

Man, I wonder how much this entry fee is going to be. I'm working as an artist for an indie game and the team is located on Brazil. 5k makes it unlikely this game ever makes into Steam, hell even 1k would make not viable.

Valve need to confirm the fee as soon as so everyone knows where they are at. The uncertainty is only fueling the guesses based on the figures provided of $100 to $5000.

I, too, am working on a game and whilst it is in the very early infancy of development this uncertainty is still causing me a bit of bother at the back of my mind. I just want to know for better or worse so hopefully we find out soon.

I wish you the best for your game and, fingers crossed, the Steam Direct fee is reasonable.

 

[Pixieking]

Man, I wonder how much this entry fee is going to be. I'm working as an artist for an indie game and the team is located on Brazil. 5k makes it unlikely this game ever makes into Steam, hell even 1k would make not viable.

So, this raises something.

Presumably, the money will be "equivalent local currency". But then, for Valve to not look at cost-of-living and local salaries would be a very un-Valve thing to do. It's like pricing your game at $60/£60/60 Euros and then pushing that into Russian Ruble, Chinese RMB, etc. Makes no sense.

So, I would hope that Valve actually tailor costs to the specific country of the developer/publisher. And this may be why they are saying they're going to ask for tax info and "bank account" type stuff - so they have legal documentation of where you're based, and then ask for the required amount in local currency, taking into account how much people earn. This will prevent people saying "Ah, yeah, I'm based in Russia, so I'll pay the small amount of Ruble fees" even though they have UK tax info.

 

[M3d10n]

Man, I wonder how much this entry fee is going to be. I'm working as an artist for an indie game and the team is located on Brazil. 5k makes it unlikely this game ever makes into Steam, hell even 1k would make not viable.

Yup. The fee being recoupable or "pretty much every game can recover it even if they bomb" is meaningless because devs still have to produce that money before putting their games into sale. Anything in the thousands will basically require a loan if you're not from the US or Europe.

So, this raises something.

Presumably, the money will be "equivalent local currency". But then, for Valve to not look at cost-of-living and local salaries would be a very un-Valve thing to do. It's like pricing your game at $60/£60/60 Euros and then pushing that into Russian Ruble, Chinese RMB, etc. Makes no sense.

So, I would hope that Valve actually tailor costs to the specific country of the developer/publisher. And this may be why they are saying they're going to ask for tax info and "bank account" type stuff - so they have legal documentation of where you're based, and then ask for the required amount in local currency, taking into account how much people earn. This will prevent people saying "Ah, yeah, I'm based in Russia, so I'll pay the small amount of Ruble fees" even though they have UK tax info.

I just paid the Greenlight fee last week (literally a few hours before they announced Steam Direct) and it's around half the price in Brazil compared to the US price, so whatever fee they come up with is likely to be cheaper as well.

 

[FyreWulff]

I'm seriously trying to figure out why people still want less games to be sold on Steam.

It's the defacto monopoly on PC. It's hard to even get people to download a zip or exe on a website anymore. They just want to put name in and get it on Steam.

 

[_Rob_]

I'm seriously trying to figure out why people still want less games to be sold on Steam.

I think it's in response to the quality vs quantity issue. In that there are so many games of poor quality released so quickly that they drown out the handful of good games. This results is less gamers being able to find the games they want, and new developers may not be able to find an audience.

 

[Dascu]

Potential customers registering interest in a title is basically what greenlight already was...

Yes, but now you tie it in with a monetary commitment. It will make choices of what to support on Steam more serious.

 

[Lister]

Steam holds the 90% of the sales of PC games, so have success in others stores it's something really difficult.

Last figure I saw from market research was closer to 75%, not 90%. Do you have a cite?

Steam is also only about 18% of the overall PC gaming market (again, according to the last researched figure I've seen). so there's still plenty fo market share to be had outside Steam.

 

[Dascu]

Last figure I saw from market research was closer to 75%, not 90%. Do you have a cite?

Steam is also only about 18% of the overall PC gaming market (again, according to the last researched figure I've seen). so there's still plenty fo market share to be had outside Steam.

In terms of the target Greenlight audience and the developers who rely on it, i.e. small digital-only indie devs, the market share of Steam in the overall PC market, global and including physical/retail, is not as relevant. I don't think there's disagreement that Steam is the de facto gateway for paid indie PC games, even if there's still a substantial boxed PC game scene, PC MMO revenues or if Battlefield is bringing in tons of cash via EA Origin store.

 

[Lister]

I think it's in response to the quality vs quantity issue. In that there are so many games of poor quality released so quickly that they drown out the handful of good games. This results is less gamers being able to find the games they want, and new developers may not be able to find an audience.

This is a discoverability issue though, and Valve agrees with this. Otherwise we have the other issue of who is determining what is a "Good" game vs a "Bad" one.

My good game, is your bad game, is Valve Employee "X"'s horrible game, is Joe Schmoe's favorite all time game.

The walled garden solution is not the solution that benefits customers the most. It's the one that benefits platform holders the most, which is why platform holders like Sony and Microsoft and Apple, tend to implement it.

We just need better tools to surface the games we like from the noise AND (let's be clear here I do want SOME filtering happening but at a very low scrutiny level) have the noise be of a minimum quality - basically no asset flips, copyright infringement, unplayable games, but everythign else should have a shot at the market.

 

[Lister]

In terms of the target Greenlight audience and the developers who rely on it, i.e. small digital-only indie devs, the market share of Steam in the overall PC market, global and including physical/retail, is not as relevant. I don't think there's disagreement that Steam is the de facto gateway for paid indie PC games, even if there's still a substantial boxed PC game scene, PC MMO revenues or if Battlefield is bringing in tons of cash via EA Origin store.

Yeah true, I don't disagree.

 

[LordRaptor]

Yes, but now you tie it in with a monetary commitment. It will make choices of what to support on Steam more serious.

I mean, yeah, I just feel that the solution you're proposing is a fix for Early Access, not for Greenlight.
And I generally feel that one of the problems Early Access has anyway is people setting their EA pricing at optimistic full retail final product, rather than at 'in at the ground floor' so early backers get a good deal by buying in on first prototype for $5 or whatever, and being rewarded with being an early adopter by the product price increasing with each major milestone added, rather than "Thanks for the $60, but it ain't worth that so final release is $10" or even worse "we didn't raise enough $60 early buyers, so fuck that project, laters"

 

[M3d10n]

Last figure I saw from market research was closer to 75%, not 90%. Do you have a cite?

Steam is also only about 18% of the overall PC gaming market (again, according to the last researched figure I've seen). so there's still plenty fo market share to be had outside Steam.

The "overall PC gaming market" includes much more than paid games. F2P online games, in particular, make up a significant portion of the market and most of them are distributed outside Steam.

 

[MUnited83]

Last figure I saw from market research was closer to 75%, not 90%. Do you have a cite?

Steam is also only about 18% of the overall PC gaming market (again, according to the last researched figure I've seen). so there's still plenty fo market share to be had outside Steam.

You do know that the rest of the percentage is composed of huge MMO/F2P/very high profile releases and successes, yes? That is not a market share available for any of the indie devs starting up and struggling to get 1000$ to get their game up on steam.

 

[outunderthestars]

Several thousands? So they would make a loss if they had to pay 1k for each title.

The PR statement makes is sound like that fee is refundable through discounted royalties.

Also, if you can't scrape together $500 or so then your business plan is profoundly flawed.

 

[Fancolors]

So, this raises something.

Presumably, the money will be "equivalent local currency". But then, for Valve to not look at cost-of-living and local salaries would be a very un-Valve thing to do. It's like pricing your game at $60/£60/60 Euros and then pushing that into Russian Ruble, Chinese RMB, etc. Makes no sense.

So, I would hope that Valve actually tailor costs to the specific country of the developer/publisher. And this may be why they are saying they're going to ask for tax info and "bank account" type stuff - so they have legal documentation of where you're based, and then ask for the required amount in local currency, taking into account how much people earn. This will prevent people saying "Ah, yeah, I'm based in Russia, so I'll pay the small amount of Ruble fees" even though they have UK tax info.

This is what I'm hoping. Valve has been very smart on how they price games on Steam for the Brazilian market. Still, we don't have an official answer on this matter, so it still makes me nervous.

I wish you the best for your game and, fingers crossed, the Steam Direct fee is reasonable.

Good luck for you too.

 

[Lister]

You do know that the rest of the percentage is composed of huge MMO/F2P/very high profile releases and successes, yes? That is not a market share available for any of the indie devs starting up and struggling to get 1000$ to get their game up on steam.

That market also includes things like Minecraft though. So never say never.

 

[Nzyme32]

Valve need to confirm the fee as soon as so everyone knows where they are at. The uncertainty is only fueling the guesses based on the figures provided of $100 to $5000.

I, too, am working on a game and whilst it is in the very early infancy of development this uncertainty is still causing me a bit of bother at the back of my mind. I just want to know for better or worse so hopefully we find out soon.

I wish you the best for your game and, fingers crossed, the Steam Direct fee is reasonable.

Kind of a pointless statement if you ask me. They specifically call it out as a point of contention with conflicting ideas, so gave that price range and are encouraging discussion to try and work it out. They should take their time to understand all the possibilities before confirming, rather than satiating the fear mongering, which happens with nigh upon anything when an idea gets discussed of such nature.

There'll obviously be a period of time between announcement of the pricing, details of the service etc before it launches.

 

[yyr]

I apologize for not going through the thread before asking this question.

Has any announcement been made as to whether developers of games that have already passed Greenlight--but have not yet been released--will have to start all over? I would be directly affected by this.

 

[CyanideFuse]

Kind of a pointless statement if you ask me. They specifically call it out as a point of contention with conflicting ideas, so gave that price range and are encouraging discussion to try and work it out. They should take their time to understand all the possibilities before confirming, rather than satiating the fear mongering, which happens with nigh upon anything when an idea gets discussed of such nature.

There'll obviously be a period of time between announcement of the pricing, details of the service etc before it launches.

What mine? Thanks I guess.

I apologize for not going through the thread before asking this question.

Has any announcement been made as to whether developers of games that have already passed Greenlight--but have not yet been released--will have to start all over? I would be directly affected by this.

I believe already Greenlit games are okay.

 

[Tain]

I apologize for not going through the thread before asking this question.

Has any announcement been made as to whether developers of games that have already passed Greenlight--but have not yet been released--will have to start all over? I would be directly affected by this.

I'm hearing people say that existing Greenlight-approved devs (I'm one of those too, lol) are fine.

 

[_Rob_]

I'm hearing people say that existing Greenlight-approved devs (I'm one of those too, lol) are fine.

Indeed same here, I sure hope so too! I shot over an email to Steam's Greenlight support this morning to confirm this; if and when I get a reply I'll post it up here.

 

[JaseC]

I apologize for not going through the thread before asking this question.

Has any announcement been made as to whether developers of games that have already passed Greenlight--but have not yet been released--will have to start all over? I would be directly affected by this.

I can only assume you have nothing to worry about as you've already signed your distribution agreement; Valve asking you to pay the new fee for your game would be tantamount to double dipping. Future releases, though, I imagine would have to go through Steam Direct as I don't see Valve allowing all greenlit devs to upload new games willy-nilly. It'd be a nice olive branch, but the potential for pockets of catastrophe is too high.

 

[Dex815]

Good, finally time to stop the disgusting over bloated store full of "games" released just to fill the trading cards submarket.

Here is a good explanation of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1ny4gOEPm0

 

[i-Jest]

Sssooo better quality control?

 

[JaseC]

Sssooo better quality control?

Possibly, in the small and indirect way that comes with adjusting the barrier to entry. The move has nothing to do with increasing curation, though, and everything to do with removing it from the equation entirely as far as the first hump is concerned (developers are booted from Steam if they run afoul of policy, such as submitting positive reviews for their own games, so there's still an element of oversight).

 

[MUnited83]

Good, finally time to stop the disgusting over bloated store full of "games" released just to fill the trading cards submarket.

Here is a good explanation of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1ny4gOEPm0

This won't really do anything to fix that. Guess it might prevent a new couple of players into the pumping out trading cards business, but whoever already got in will continue to pump out stuff.

Sssooo better quality control?

Not at all. Quality is irrelevant for being accepted.

 

[yyr]

Thanks to all who answered my question. I will await the response to _Rob_ =)

 

[_Rob_]

As promised here's the reply I had from Steam:

All the games that have been greenlit in the past are still accepted and unaffected. Devs can keep submitting to Greenlight, and we'll keep reviewing and approving games there until Steam Direct releases.

Put my mind at ease

 

[yyr]

Yay! Thanks for doing the legwork...that's very re-assuring!

 

[Nzyme32]

What mine? Thanks I guess.

Not quite. More the sentiment of fear that comes every time a change is put forward for feedback, usually irrespective of what has actually been said and to jump purely to the extremes.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Good, finally time to stop the disgusting over bloated store full of "games" released just to fill the trading cards submarket.

Here is a good explanation of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1ny4gOEPm0

It's 1000x better than the rumor that was going around about Source 2 being an insta-get-on-Steam.

 

[saelz8]

Any updates or indication on the price yet?

Buying trash is a choice people make, though. I agree with GabeN

There's really not a singular definition of quality, and what we've seen is that many different games appeal to different people. So we're trying to support the variety of games that people are interested in playing. We know we still have more work to do in filtering those games so the right games show up to the right customers.

Let the market decide. What needs to be curated is what displays or is recommended, not what is submitted or accepted. If I want to buy Bad Rats or Super 3D Noah's-Ark, I should be able to.

 

[Dusk Golem]

Guys, I think Greenlight may be about to be replaced.

Right now you can't browse any Greenlight games on the Greenlight page and the front page got rid of "Your queue", "Recent", etc. Like it's all been removed.

It might just be busy and not loading, but it's the first time I've seen it like this.

 

[Nzyme32]

Guys, I think Greenlight may be about to be replaced.

Right now you can't browse any Greenlight games on the Greenlight page and the front page got rid of "Your queue", "Recent", etc. Like it's all been removed.

It might just be busy and not loading, but it's the first time I've seen it like this.

Yep - it's happening. Fits in with a few little changes going on this week too, such as support stats and gifting changes. Hoping the client refresh is soon, but I think a safe bet would be that that will only become available​ in beta form some point next year

 

[AlanOC91]

Yep - it's happening. Fits in with a few little changes going on this week too, such as support stats and gifting changes. Hoping the client refresh is soon, but I think a safe bet would be that that will only become available​ in beta form some point next year

Didn't they say steam client refresh beta is this summer?

 

[JaseC]

Didn't they say steam client refresh beta is this summer?

Yeah, and a developer told me the other week that Valve is toying with the idea of tying it into the Summer Sale. I assume that would take the form of a metagame and those who complete all tasks or whatever secure first-wave access.

 

[Dusk Golem]

For now it was a false alarm, Greenlight is back up and running again.

BUT, I also don't believe it was 100% false. It reminds me of when Steam sometimes scrubs something for a small window, and within a week a new replacement is introduced. I would bet they were doing some internal things, which is why it was down for a bit. But seems there's still a bit more time until Greenlight goes down for good.

 

[Compsiox]

Yeah, and a developer told me the other week that Valve is toying with the idea of tying it into the Summer Sale. I assume that would take the form of a metagame and those who complete all tasks or whatever secure first-wave access.

I was hoping you meant launching the refresh during the sale and having a metagame within the refreshed browser/sale.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I'd be surprised if there wasn't some sort of "learning" metagame to go along with a store update.

 

[Nzyme32]

Didn't they say steam client refresh beta is this summer?

Yeah but I just assume "Valvetime" with all things

Yeah, and a developer told me the other week that Valve is toying with the idea of tying it into the Summer Sale. I assume that would take the form of a metagame and those who complete all tasks or whatever secure first-wave access.

Well that sounds like a good way to have some fun with it

 

[Knurek]

Yeah, and a developer told me the other week that Valve is toying with the idea of tying it into the Summer Sale. I assume that would take the form of a metagame and those who complete all tasks or whatever secure first-wave access.

Steam Client Redux
Coming exclusively to Windows 10 Store.