2Smashed4U
Banned
OK, so he isn't racist, he's just ignorant and normalizing racism. This is apparently preferable. Gotcha.
Variety: YouTube Cancels PewDiePie Show, Pulls Channel from Premium Ad Program
- Thread starter FelipeMGM
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OK, so he isn't racist, he's just ignorant and normalizing racism. This is apparently preferable. Gotcha.
ChrisMahoney
Banned
Agreed with Matt Lees, if you can't own your jokes, you're just an arsehole for free.
https://twitter.com/Jam_sponge/status/831580832477347845
People growing up on unchecked nazism and white nationalism thanks to certain toxic corners of the internet, this just reinforces that.
"I don't doubt that genuinely believing these things seem ludicrous to him, I really don't. But it's clear that a ton of young people *do*."
You think it's clear that a ton of young PewDiePie watchers want all Jews to die? Bullshit
I wouldn't have found either of those sayings "funny" when I was 12, 18, or 25. In fact, I'd probably pop you upside the head and say "What is wrong with you?!" if someone at any of those ages did find it "funny".
That's immature trash you hear wastes of oxygen say during CoD while their parents aren't around.
I might just have to join the "What is wrong with the Youtube generation?" comments.
Seriously, what is wrong with these people?!
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Am I the only one here who feels jew / holocaust / hitler jokes are incredible normalized? I feel I see Nazi / jew / holocaust jokes, puns and other comments everywhere. Nearly daily on many of the major sites. In fact, in general pop culture, people don't seem to have a lot of problems making racial jokes about jews (and also asians). There is a loophole where it seems to appriproiate many places on the internet to see these sorts of jokes and puns. facebook, twitter, youtube, buzzfeed, tumblr, imgur, 9gag. It's very universal. Of course many of them vary significantly in their level of offensiveness, but I think it's quite well established that antisemetic jokes are much more accepted in our pop culture than other forms of racial jokes.
South Park, Family Guy, Rick and Morty, Arrested Development, Always Sunny in Philly. All of these shows have had some crazy offensive jew / holocaust jokes, but nobody seems to bat an eye when these shows does it. Some of them have had really extreme jokes, and violent graphics as well, but there seems to be a difference between these shows and what Felix did.
The difference between these and this situation with Felix seems to be 2 things (As far as I can tell):
1) Context. Felix is a white rich succesful Youtuber who pays poor indians not just to dance like morons for his amusements, but against their knowing, he sets them up to be a part of his antisemetic joke. If you had a friend or coworker who wanted to make an offensive joke and have you be in the driverseat, you'd like to know and have a say in the matter.
I think Felix made a big mistake here. It's one thing to say something offensive, but you cannot bring other people into it. It's simply not okay. But it just becomes so much worse due to the context and contrast. I understand the backlash against Felix.
2) Funny. The great comedic shows and stand ups can get away with things others can't. Felix punched above his weight and he didn't manage to deliver this without making it seem mean spirited.
Yesterday, a new season of Last Week Tonight Started, and in the OP, some people said that it was a shame that John Oliver has a go of himself and acts self depricating. But I think a comedian who shits on himself and ridicules himself and who is mean and a shithead to himself, also gets a lot of leeway in getting away with making mean and insensitive jokes. But when Felix does it like this, it comes off as cruel.
For example, Louis CK can make incredible incredible offensive jokes that "punch down", "normalizes" and other buzz words you want to use- But he does it in a context that is not about laughing at the person(s). There is some larger point and morale. Louis CK is brilliant because he can make jokes about molesting children feeling good , but what he is actually saying is anything but trivial or punching down.
Is it really appropriate to say that he is Mel Gibson or channels the alt-right? Mel Gibson believes that jews are running the world and that they are controlling the United States government into supplying weapons to Israel. It's all a big zionist conspiracy and half of hollywood and congress are in on it. Isn't it more likely that PewDiePie just thought he could do a Family Guy style prank or joke? Does that make it okay? No it does not.
But calling everything alt-right or neo nazi is becoming a really big problem. The alternative right actually laughs at liberals for accusing everyone of being a nazi. It's become a meme to them.
And there is a part of many of us (myself included) jumping too quick on the adolf hitler analogies to various things we find disgusting. We do it because nazi idiom is such an obvious example of evil, but the more we evoke it, the less impact it becomes and that is unacceptable.
I also think that given this election, the mainstream is reevaluating the usage of making fun of it. It makes sense. The symbolism, rhetoric and empowerment of the ideology has gotten a major traction in 2016, and it will continue to rise in the next few years.
It is also worth remembering that Youtube, Twitter and the likes eventually have no choice. It's not about free speech. It's about that youtube is becoming a public space, and in public space you need to make it accomedating for everybody. You need to be non offensive and non threatening. Same thing goes in real life. you cannot do and say what you want in public places. you need t go to special places to say your sthick.
And this is good. I'd like to see youtube take an active roll.
South Park, Family Guy, Rick and Morty, Arrested Development, Always Sunny in Philly. All of these shows have had some crazy offensive jew / holocaust jokes, but nobody seems to bat an eye when these shows does it. Some of them have had really extreme jokes, and violent graphics as well, but there seems to be a difference between these shows and what Felix did.
The difference between these and this situation with Felix seems to be 2 things (As far as I can tell):
1) Context. Felix is a white rich succesful Youtuber who pays poor indians not just to dance like morons for his amusements, but against their knowing, he sets them up to be a part of his antisemetic joke. If you had a friend or coworker who wanted to make an offensive joke and have you be in the driverseat, you'd like to know and have a say in the matter.
I think Felix made a big mistake here. It's one thing to say something offensive, but you cannot bring other people into it. It's simply not okay. But it just becomes so much worse due to the context and contrast. I understand the backlash against Felix.
2) Funny. The great comedic shows and stand ups can get away with things others can't. Felix punched above his weight and he didn't manage to deliver this without making it seem mean spirited.
Yesterday, a new season of Last Week Tonight Started, and in the OP, some people said that it was a shame that John Oliver has a go of himself and acts self depricating. But I think a comedian who shits on himself and ridicules himself and who is mean and a shithead to himself, also gets a lot of leeway in getting away with making mean and insensitive jokes. But when Felix does it like this, it comes off as cruel.
For example, Louis CK can make incredible incredible offensive jokes that "punch down", "normalizes" and other buzz words you want to use- But he does it in a context that is not about laughing at the person(s). There is some larger point and morale. Louis CK is brilliant because he can make jokes about molesting children feeling good , but what he is actually saying is anything but trivial or punching down.
Is it really appropriate to say that he is Mel Gibson or channels the alt-right? Mel Gibson believes that jews are running the world and that they are controlling the United States government into supplying weapons to Israel. It's all a big zionist conspiracy and half of hollywood and congress are in on it. Isn't it more likely that PewDiePie just thought he could do a Family Guy style prank or joke? Does that make it okay? No it does not.
But calling everything alt-right or neo nazi is becoming a really big problem. The alternative right actually laughs at liberals for accusing everyone of being a nazi. It's become a meme to them.
And there is a part of many of us (myself included) jumping too quick on the adolf hitler analogies to various things we find disgusting. We do it because nazi idiom is such an obvious example of evil, but the more we evoke it, the less impact it becomes and that is unacceptable.
I also think that given this election, the mainstream is reevaluating the usage of making fun of it. It makes sense. The symbolism, rhetoric and empowerment of the ideology has gotten a major traction in 2016, and it will continue to rise in the next few years.
It is also worth remembering that Youtube, Twitter and the likes eventually have no choice. It's not about free speech. It's about that youtube is becoming a public space, and in public space you need to make it accomedating for everybody. You need to be non offensive and non threatening. Same thing goes in real life. you cannot do and say what you want in public places. you need t go to special places to say your sthick.
And this is good. I'd like to see youtube take an active roll.
ChrisMahoney
Banned
Dark humor dealing with Hitler is much more preferable than actual racism, yes.
He's not. It's just dark humor dealing with Hitler and referencing a real racist on youtube (Keemstar)
2Smashed4U
Banned
PROTIP: Passive racism is still racism.
Much more the latter.
His views have increased since. I doubt the Variety readership has much overlap with the PDP audience.
Thats every time he is mentioned though.
civilstrife
Member
Oh man, just take a look at the comments of his most recent video to see how his viewers respond to his kind of messaging and tell me it's "harmless".
what are you talking about?
You should watch one of idubbz videos.
The post you quoted gives a really wrong impression.
AFAIK he didn't use those exact words either/not like that.
I think the point is that PewDiePie has played a part in normalising the "joke", not that a large number of young fans actually want Jews to die. As in, what he is pushing is that it's OK to joke about this subject, when it isn't and shouldn't be. But there will be a very large number of his followers who just scream "but he was just kidding! he's made this clear! the media is out to get him!" like that excuses the whole thing. It makes him ignorant, not innocent.
I've watched a few of his videos, I don't think he's a bad guy at all. I definitely think he's a bit ignorant and can be insensitive at times with some of his so-called "jokes", and I don't find him entertaining so I don't watch his videos. His career will go unaffected by this, he has followers in the millions who will support him whatever he does.
Kaiser Swayze
Member
He could get a lot of mileage out of a simple apology. Remember when Jonah Hill called someone a "faggot" and actually made a contrite apology for making a stupid comment? Pretty much applauded and forgiven right away. I guess having an ounce of empathy is considered a weakness to some, in which case he'll earn every bit of blowback. And folks who think that having some decency and consideration is a burden and equivalent to "walking on eggshells" need to grow up.
I feel it's important to watch the WSJ video as they show things outside and how racists celebrate these kinds of jokes he was making, and that white supremacist sites like the Daily Stormer are in full recruitment mode to get these young impressionable kids and teens who watch his content because people like them are praising the death to all jews jokes.
If you make fun of nazis and white supremacy these racists scorn you, but if you make fun of the victims like jews in the holocaust, these kinds of racists will praise you. It doesn't matter what his beliefs are, his actions are being judged and criticized for normalizing that sort of behavior.
ebullientprism
Member
Yeah all the new eyes on his product will do that. But like I said, their revenue depends on sustained viewers. So unless a lot of those people stick around and decide to watch him day after day, that bump is not really gonna make up for the lost revenue.
You were actively using the word, the person you quoted is using them as an example. Using a word is different than listing it.
Lanrutcon
Member
Is English your first language?
The difference between saying something and quoting someone else saying the same thing is pretty big. You're responsible for the one, but much less so for the other.
Just a heads up.
Great post and summarizes my thoughts as well, almost down to the wire.
malboroking
Banned
Context, what is it?
I was legit shook when I learned Jontron was a GG misogynist shitheel. Unsubscribed from his channel and will never watch another one of his videos. I never really found Pewdiepie very funny, but I'm more on the side of he made a really tasteless joke rather than thinking he's a complete asshole. He should come out and apologize though.
If that's the case, then yeah he shouldn't be punished.
It'd be even more insulting considering that actual right-wing douchebags like Jontron are allowed to roam free without consequence.
Diprosalic
Banned
i'm sure it got linked but the video casey made sums it pretty much up for me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1tGSkOJw7c
- pewdiepie made an offensive joke and stepped over the line but he's sure he's not an anti-semite
- he should know better that his large audience gets influenced by the things he says
- free speech is great but doesn't protect you from consequences.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1tGSkOJw7c
- pewdiepie made an offensive joke and stepped over the line but he's sure he's not an anti-semite
- he should know better that his large audience gets influenced by the things he says
- free speech is great but doesn't protect you from consequences.
I love how everyone is shitting on JonTron but I can't find a sliver of any evidence posted yet.
"Hitler did nothing wrong"
and
"Death to all jews"
aren't "dark humour". There's nothing humorous about these statements, especially when they're not even in context of a bigger 'joke'. There's no punchline, no message.
The only thing he does is carrying on a meme started by 4chan that normalizes talking about the attempted genocide of the jewish people in a joking manner.
can't disagree with Neistat. I find the video title rather dumb, though.
This isn't about free speech. Pewdiepie isn't being censored. He isn't being prosecuted. It's just corporations that were previously in a business relationship with him have decided he's no longer a suitable spokesperson for them.
He's been palling around and generally agreeing with Breitbart and assorted alt right personalities.
Exactly!
Guys take it easy on Pewdiepie, he's grown as a "comedian" or "entertainer" over the years.
"Faggot" jokes --> Rape jokes ---> slut/whore/bitch jokes ---> "retard" jokes ---> racial slurs ----> Holocaust jokes.
As you can see, a clear line of progress.
In ten years he might actually land on jokes merely about mugging elderly people.
Please, stop pushing your pc agendas on him. He's only joking.
"Faggot" jokes --> Rape jokes ---> slut/whore/bitch jokes ---> "retard" jokes ---> racial slurs ----> Holocaust jokes.
As you can see, a clear line of progress.
In ten years he might actually land on jokes merely about mugging elderly people.
Please, stop pushing your pc agendas on him. He's only joking.
Diprosalic
Banned
as he said in the video, he knows that too.
he just uses dumb titles, bit unfortunate, i agree.
malboroking
Banned
He's a misogynistic GG shitheel. The typical "why are women complaining, at least you don't live in Saudi Arabia, hope all SJW's die" kind of stuff.
Well damn there it is, thank you!
2Smashed4U
Banned
What's with all these popular YT personalities buddying up with the alt-right the last year or two? Just like The Needle Drop guy having Sauron on one of his videos to discuss the evils of feminism and then going onto his own official subreddit to call his fans "triggered pussies" when they called him out for it.
He did an interview on BrietBart, a site that has made all sorts of bigoted articles and fake news.
There's also this http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=229297101&postcount=1793
Check out the last 5 pages or so of the community thread.
Rock Howard
Member
I won't shed a tear over him. But kudos for putting The Last Guardian into the spotlight.
snoopeasystreet
Member
I'm fairly sure he's not a bad dude and was trying to make a joke which not only didn't land, it was offensive and in bad taste.
Regardless of if he thinks of himself as this or not, he is a role model to a lot of kids and young adults and they are the people who view him not as a character but as an aspirational person. This is different to an actor playing a character that says offensive terms because there's an understanding with the audience that this is fiction.
Where PiewDiePie and a lot of YouTube streamers differ from traditional media professions is, they are typically selling themselves as being on common ground with their audience. Yeah, they might be playing a character but it's usually on the grounds of "well, I'm one of you the only difference is I'm on this side of the camera" and things like chat interaction play into that.
You can't flip between being an ordinary guy or girl and then a character that's expressing views that you don't actually believe in because some of the audience won't identify the change.
Regardless of if he thinks of himself as this or not, he is a role model to a lot of kids and young adults and they are the people who view him not as a character but as an aspirational person. This is different to an actor playing a character that says offensive terms because there's an understanding with the audience that this is fiction.
Where PiewDiePie and a lot of YouTube streamers differ from traditional media professions is, they are typically selling themselves as being on common ground with their audience. Yeah, they might be playing a character but it's usually on the grounds of "well, I'm one of you the only difference is I'm on this side of the camera" and things like chat interaction play into that.
You can't flip between being an ordinary guy or girl and then a character that's expressing views that you don't actually believe in because some of the audience won't identify the change.
Tranqueris
Banned
Jesus..
Also for the people bringing up the fact that he has a ton of money, you know who else has a ton of money? Palmer Luckey. You know how many people are announcing that they're proud to work with Palmer Luckey now? Zero. People who want to be seen in public with him? Zero. Companies that want to be associated with him? Not even Oculus since they've had him in hiding ever since.
Now yes, the situations between the two of them are pretty different but just having millions doesn't make you immune to the effect of people distancing themselves from you and giving you the status of social pariah. If PDP had any ambitions for being more than a YouTube guy, they're basically dead and gone for the short term.
Boy Wander
Member
You're taking what most people are saying and twisting it. The overwhelming majority of people in here think what he did was totally wrong, however some of us don't necessarily see that it means he should be totally hung out to dry and ruined because of it. I don't see many people saying they don't care. Also, what the fuck has what he does for a living got to do with anything. Would it be better if he was a plumber? If you think what he does isn't a real job, fine but I'd wager he put as much effort into it, if not more, than a lot of lazy fuckers with "real jobs". I don't even like fucking PewDiePie but some of the vitriol is undoubtedly aimed at him because he gets to fuck around and make videos for a living and got rich doing so and for some reason that very fact eats some people up so bad they want to see him pay. I'd like to see the YouTube channels such people could create if they think it's so fucking easy.
I mean you can just open up JonTron twitter and search what kind of videos he was recently featured on Youtube and you might find out. There's a fuckload of evidence you can find if you use your fingertips for two seconds.
Piston Hyundai
Member
lmao
depths20XX
Member
He isn't banned. They just canceled his show thing that was on YouTube Red.
They didn't ban him at all, they just dropped his show and the premium ad program. His channnel is just fine and he still gets money from standard monetization.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
WORDS THAT KILL
ChrisMahoney
Banned
There was a punchline. Did you watch the video? The punchline was Keemstar
It wasn't passive racism
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