Polygon: Nintendo is already repeating the Wii U's mistakes with Switch

It's a portable system, dude. Nothing else comes close with those power requirements right now. Playing Zelda while I'm out of town doing boot camp training in 3 weeks sounds mighty damn appealing to me. If a portable/easy carry party system you can dock and have it up the res doesn't appeal to you, that's totally fine. But don't compare it to a fixed box, online play focused system like PS4 because the use case is totally different.

I already have a PC with 2X GTX 1070s hooked up to an 4K TV with an XBox One controller I use for most of my home gaming. I don't give a crap about the hardware refreshes Sony/MS are doing. Considering getting a Pro for Horizon but need to see reviews first (found all of Guerilla's other stuff pretty but very boring.)

Perfectly understandable. It's definitely appealing to people who want console games on the go.

But understandably disappointing to some of us console only folk who now don't have a console option from Nintendo. But it is what it is. The market has shown little interest in a Nintendo console given decling sales for all of them after the NES with the big Wii hit as the lone (and of course huge) exception, while their portables are still selling well. So they of course need to focus on their strongest market. Though I wonder if a $300 hybrid may alienate a lot of the portable only crowd given how 3DS and Vita failed at $250. Time will tell.

As I said, I'll just wait until this is $250 with a game, be it official deal or some retailer special. That's the most I can bring myself to pay as someone who doesn't care about portability or motion controls, and who also would want the stupidly expensive Pro controller.
 
Nintendo Switch will repeat every mistake because Wii 1 sold and they still left everyone guessing. I really don't care. I got my money's worth with Zelda day1. Just put Nintendo on PS4 and let Sony port God of War to Switch and accept the tons of money people will give by sharing ips.
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Just no.
 
A lot of people talk about online, but few actually discuss what it is that makes online appealing. Lemme try to think outside the box a little bit, because the Switch is not your ordinary "home console."

The picture Polygon posted on top their article tells the story right there. The Switch enables one to take the console with them, physically meet friends, family, and even strangers, and play local mulitplayer right on the spot with the included joy-cons. I can see potential here for games like Mario Kart 8 getting exposed outside family gatherings at Thanksgiving parties.

One of the appeals of online gaming is the convenience of connecting with your social peers via an online network. You don't need to haul a big machine, and several controllers, over to a friends house to play with them. You can also play with strangers and anyone around the world.

Online is still important, and we know Switch will feature online at a price, but therein lies a potential audience who don't play online, but may be interested in a online-like experience of being able to play with others beyond their own home with added convenience.

We'll see if this goes anywhere, but I believe this is a strong part of Nintendo's social/multiplayer strategy with Switch, and it is unique to this console, as the DS, 3DS, GBA, all required multiple units to play.

The marketing pretty much shows this to be the case, as we see Nintendo's vision of having the system taken to Basketball courts, esports teams playing and planning in a locker room, guy playing on a plane, girl taking the system out to a group of friends at some rooftop party and handing a joy-con for some two player Mario.

I think this is Nintendo's newest attempt at a Blue Ocean. Will it work? I don't know. It's going to depend on the software, as usual. I think the potential is there though. I think launch and beyond will be interesting to watch.

BTW, Polgon's article is basically saying Nintendo is not sharing enough information, and that is a repeated mistake from the Wii U and uses the online questions we have as an example. End of the article sounds like the writer thinks Nintendo should be punished for it lol.

I think Wii U's chief problems were with what we knew about it : oversized classic controller with a screen, Old Super Mario Bros. U, Nintendoland, buggy ports, and no games beyond launch. What some thought we didn't know was that their was games coming beyond launch for Wii U. Non sellers like Pikmin 3 and Rayman Legends came later than anticipated, Mario 3d World was holiday, and Nintendo had an emergency direct showing games that'll come out years later. lol
 
If you want to dismiss what I said by reductionism then go ahead, but my point is that if you're going to complain about fans being defensive you're going to complain about everything.

It's a pretty poor defence to just say "but the others are just as bad". The respective posters replies are just "lol", "that narrative", or "oh Polygon", instead of actually discussing the arguments brought up in the article.
 
They have a point.

The fact that 2 weeks from launch they've showed nothing of the UI/Online is a legitimate concern.

For who?

Does the concept of the Switch interest you?

No - don't buy it.
Yes - wait two damn weeks and see if the features are there to convince you that you would like one.
 
Why do you think gaming sites are under embargo for not showing what's inside the box or they can't make an unboxing video?

Cause there's clearly more information coming from Nintendo next week.

When you know there's information coming, whining that you don't have it right now makes them look like

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Christberg said:
It's a portable system, dude. Nothing else comes close with those power requirements right now. Playing Zelda while I'm out of town doing boot camp training in 3 weeks sounds mighty damn appealing to me. If a portable/easy carry party system you can dock and have it up the res doesn't appeal to you, that's totally fine. But don't compare it to a fixed box, online play focused system like PS4 because the use case is totally different.

I already have a PC with 2X GTX 1070s hooked up to an 4K TV with an XBox One controller I use for most of my home gaming. I don't give a crap about the hardware refreshes Sony/MS are doing. Considering getting a Pro for Horizon but need to see reviews first (found all of Guerilla's other stuff pretty but very boring.)

dmaul said:
Perfectly understandable. It's definitely appealing to people who want console games on the go.

But understandably disappointing to some of us console only folk who now don't have a console option from Nintendo. But it is what it is. The market has shown little interest in a Nintendo console given decling sales for all of them after the NES with the big Wii hit as the lone (and of course huge) exception, while their portables are still selling well. So they of course need to focus on their strongest market. Though I wonder if a $300 hybrid may alienate a lot of the portable only crowd given how 3DS and Vita failed at $250. Time will tell.

As I said, I'll just wait until this is $250 with a game, be it official deal or some retailer special. That's the most I can bring myself to pay as someone who doesn't care about portability or motion controls, and who also would want the stupidly expensive Pro controller.

Heh, you know, a certain blogger put it perfectly.

Those who think of Switch as a portable, tend to think its going to succeed.

Those who think of Switch as a home console, tend to think it's going to tank.
 
Yeah this is very much a "shit we must get something out before FYE" situation. So you have to be cagey with info (It's not finished) and you're games and general lineup is going to be pretty sad.



After (during) Wii U I pretty much gave up on them as I was sick of being hopeful for their system. After the Switch presentation I've actually gone back to PC gaming after a decade away and am enjoying some amazing games with competent, and free online.

Wow, I pretty much gave up on them when they released the Wii. The writing was on the wall that their release schedules and third party support wouldn't improve, even back then (got burned hard by only having a GameCube back then).

I went from Xbox 360 to exclusive PC gaming but I do hope Nintendo finds a way make it all work out though (the Switch isn't enough imo but we'll see).
 
Heh, you know, a certain blogger put it perfectly.

Those who think of Switch as a portable, tend to think its going to succeed.

Those who think of Switch as a home console, tend to think it's going to tank.

Yeah. I'm excited about Switch as a powerful handheld gaming machine. I'm not excited at all about hooking it up to a big screen. I think the games will appear better on the screen with better pixel density.
 
For who?

Does the concept of the Switch interest you?

No - don't buy it.
Yes - wait two damn weeks and see if the features are there to convince you that you would like one.

This is just disingenuous and I'm not even sure why this is stance is being taken. I can't imagine any other product coming to market and withholding the amount of information Nintendo has regarding the Switch, and people not being skeptical about it. If theres enough there to convince some to buy it thats fine, but to wave away people's genuine concern over the lack of transparency here is mind boggling to me.

And if you think in two weeks all of these answers and features will be made clearer, just wait until the launch threads start popping up considering most of the features of the system with regards to online and apps are in beta mode.
 
Yeah. I'm excited about Switch as a powerful handheld gaming machine. I'm not excited at all about hooking it up to a big screen. I think the games will appear better on the screen with better pixel density.

If it was running at the same resolution on TV and handheld I'd agree with you. But if it is running on average 720p handheld and 1080p on TV, then TV should still look great
 
Blind optimismism is worse than conservative pessimism.
It's pessemmisn bordering on paranoia and malice in comparison to optimism bordering on delusion. Both sides are annoying to be honest. The leaps in logic everywhere hurt my head. We had someone in this very thread say that Nintendo only relies on nostalgia, then in their next sentence say they're only buying a switch for Mario and zelda. These polygon op pieces are made to fuel both sides of the "Nintendo race to 3rd party holy war". To be more frank this is pretty accurate representation of the arguments in this thread.

 
This will be a huge hit in Japan, especially once they release a dock and grip-less SKU (Switch body + 2 joycons only in box) priced the same as the 3DS XL, so Japanese 3rd party support won't be an issue. Also, who cares about what the UI looks like before launch? I had fun exploring new console UI once I actually got them instead of spoiling everything before hand. And the PS4 social features are all half baked, I don't know anyone who uses them other than Party chat, really that's the main thing Nintendo should have revealed more details on, as that's the key online feature everyone actually uses.
 
It's a pretty poor defence to just say "but the others are just as bad". The respective posters replies are just "lol", "that narrative", or "oh Polygon", instead of actually discussing the arguments brought up in the article.

Polygon brought this scorn by themselves. Not that I'm defending this behavior, just saying that it's inevitable and painting it as "Nintendo fan stuff" is not accurate.
 
I cannot think of one console that has ever come out where I didn't have many questions about it heading into launch. This is a Polygon article meant to get the haters and fanboys to click on it simply because of the title.

I think the only sure thing we know about consoles at launch is they will allow you to play their launch games...
 
It's only laughable in that it took them this long to write it after being caught with other clickbait articles. Many of the points made in the article are valid and have been brought up repeatedly by fellow GAFfers during and in the aftermath of the Switch reveal.

Only the Nintendo Defense Force is blindly glossing over the very significant issues with this console, namely the fact that it's a very expensive, early access device. If you buy it day one, you're taking a significant risk, even more than that of a typical early adopter of other established brands. Those of us who can temper our impatience for a single player game that can also be played on the prior generation system with minor changes are doing what all smart people do: Waiting. Switch is poised to make every mistake they made with the Wii U: Underpowered hardware, poor online systems, missing industry standard features, trickling out first party games over a lengthy period of time, questionable third party support, ancient games being resold as "new", and so on.

Buying this at launch is utterly foolish. I'm pretty certain I'll be able to buy it cheaper or in a more economical bundle in December once we've seen how Nintendo supports the system after launch - or if, as many expect, they completely bungle it again.

What risk exactly?! What risk are you taking, what is the gigantic "OH SHIT!" point that could reveal itself on day-2, 3, 4, etc that would make your retroactively go "I done fucked up!" buying this early? Every game after Zelda getting canceled or delayed by a year? UI in Mandarin only? eShop deletes your purchases after 24h of not playing them? Kimishima popping into your room going "whoops, I lied, online will be 80 bucks instead of 25!"?

I really don't see it. You're projecting a whole lot of your own doubts (that you're free to have) onto other people saying they're foolish for not having/ignoring these same doubts out of brand loyalty or something.

Everything the article presents is a valid, but HOLY HELL at some of the defensive responses here.

I know I shouldn't expect anything different after what Nintendo fans were doing through the Wii U's early lifecycle and after the clusterfuck that has been the Switch reveal, but still...

What alternate reality are you from? Serious question.

Clusterfuck? lol
 
I cannot think of one console that has ever come out where I didn't have many questions about it heading into launch. This is a Polygon article meant to get the haters and fanboys to click on it simply because of the title.

I think the only sure thing we know about consoles at launch is they will allow you to play their launch games...
Nintendo has fucked up by waiting this long to speak on their system in-depth but I don't think this is going to effect them much. Pre-orders are locked in and marketing has done a great job at getting people who weren't interested in the Wii U looking at the switch. I don't think this decision is damning as much as many will have you believe but it is incompetent to a certain extent. That being said I'm not gonna light a fire under them unless they continue to go silent for the entirety of these next two weeks.
 
What frustrates me more than any of the issues mentioned in the article is this:

I'm not sure how many on this forum caught filmed portions of the live Q & A with Koizumi and Takahashi at the NYC Switch hands-on event, but one attendant in the crowd point-blank asked Koizumi and Takahashi if Switch owners would be able to store and play digital titles on more than one Switch at a time, to which the answer essentially was "For the time being, no."

That one of the most glaring, critical problems with Nintendo's account system, digital distribution platform, and attitude towards consumers is being carried over from the Wii U era is not at all welcome news.

The link to the Q & A I've referenced is below:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mBpkSSf7R88

The time stamp is 16:08 ~
 
I will say that while I agree with most of this, the real step up over the Wii U is the branding and the launch lineup. I didn't buy a Wii U for half a year because I was waiting for a good game, but Switch has Zelda day 1. Plus the red Switch logo and the console itself both look cool.
 
For who?

Does the concept of the Switch interest you?

No - don't buy it.
Yes - wait two damn weeks and see if the features are there to convince you that you would like one.

I'm gonna get one, but even still, a bit more transparency from Nintendo would be nice.
 
I will say that while I agree with most of this, the real step up over the Wii U is the branding and the launch lineup. I didn't buy a Wii U for half a year because I was waiting for a good game, but Switch has Zelda day 1. Plus the red Switch logo and the console itself both look cool.

The branding and marketing for the Switch is objectively a massive step up from Nintendo's efforts with the Wii U, and I'm glad to see it.
 
I agreed with almost everything in this article. I didn't get a Wii U until Smash came out and I will be doing the same thing with the Switch. It has such a cool concept but the fact that it's so underpowered and the graphics are barely better than the Wii U doesn't instill confidence in me.
 
The two go hand in hand. It lacks power because of the cool concept. You can't feasibly have both.

If you can't do it right then don't do it at all. The games just don't look good. I recently upgraded to a PS4 Pro and a 4k tv and what I've seen of Zelda on 1080p it doesn't look the best and it really doesn't look that much better than the Wii U which is 4 year old hardware. That's extremely problematic especially with the price point that they are launching it at.
 
The two go hand in hand. It lacks power because of the cool concept. You can't feasibly have both.

I want mah 8TFLOP handheld, with 4K screen, 12GB of RAM 10 hours battery life, for 199$, including Zelda BotW bundled. Cmon nintendo, tap into a parallel universe to offer me something that does not exist, you cheap fucks!
 
Nintendo has done a good job revealing the Switch. They've left no confusion regarding what it is and what the core functions are. The branding is consistent, slick and generated hype. But while these initial marketing approaches are in direct contrast to the way they handled the WiiU, everything else regarding the Switch is starting to feel like history repeating itself.
 
Online is still important, and we know Switch will feature online at a price, but therein lies a potential audience who don't play online, but may be interested in a online-like experience of being able to play with others beyond their own home with added convenience.

We'll see if this goes anywhere, but I believe this is a strong part of Nintendo's social/multiplayer strategy with Switch, and it is unique to this console, as the DS, 3DS, GBA, all required multiple units to play.

The marketing pretty much shows this to be the case, as we see Nintendo's vision of having the system taken to Basketball courts, esports teams playing and planning in a locker room, guy playing on a plane, girl taking the system out to a group of friends at some rooftop party and handing a joy-con for some two player Mario.

I think this is Nintendo's newest attempt at a Blue Ocean. Will it work? I don't know. It's going to depend on the software, as usual. I think the potential is there though. I think launch and beyond will be interesting to watch.
More so than the blue ocean itself, being able to take the Switch with you overcomes a major hurdle that Wii U never overcame. The success of a console for a large part is determined by word of mouth. PS4 blew up not really on its own merit, but because all the core gamers were poo pooing Xbone, without even having played both, or even either. Nintendo's core demographic has pretty much eroded, yet the Wii was an even bigger success than the PS4, because even nongamers immediately got the concept. You don't need a lot of cognitive effort to understand swinging a tennis racket after all.

Asymmetric gameplay conversely is impossible to understand for nongamers, and even among core gamers may only be immediately interesting for game designers like me. So first somebody needs to take a leap of faith and buy the system, and then needs to persuade multiple other people to come over to their house to play it, and these people then need to think okay I will lay down $350 and then find another circle of friends to persuade in turn. It's not difficult to see word of mouth will be paltry.

In case of the Switch you can literally whip it out at a bar, in the lecture room, over drinks, at a get together, and have some fun in a social setting. The number of people who will come into contact with the Switch will be an exponential order of magnitude bigger than the Wii U. Probably even the PS4. And they will do it in a social setting, instead of a nerdy home setting, which people will want to replicate with other circles of friends. It's a slight gamble, but this, I think, is going to make Switch sell insane. I wouldn't be surprised if they get close to Wii levels. It's their best shot at least. But they should've packed 1-2 Switch in.
 
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That's a pretty major oversight.

So if something like Overwatch comes to the Switch then you'll still be confined to playing it in your home unless you live in Japan or a busy city area with really generous hotspots.

Still got my pre-order locked but yeesh.

The last handheld that tried to use cellular connections didn't exactly go well for it.
 
This seems awfully short sided. You agreed it's a cool concept--why shouldn't Nintendo try and see if there's a market for it?

By your argument, they shouldn't have bothered with the Wii either

No the Wii came out a year after the 360 and the same year as the PS3. It was underpowered but it also COST LESS than those competing machines. The Switch is coming 3+ years after the PS4 and Xbone came out, is under powered in comparison and COST MORE than those machines. That's the problem for me. It isn't even using Nvidia's newest chips which I'm sure they could have done if they wanted to. To add to this, they haven't show anything on the Switch that looks like the generational leap between the Switch and Wii U which I would expect for next gen hardware from a company.
 
It's a portable system, dude. Nothing else comes close with those power requirements right now.

Most of us already have a more powerful portable system in our pockets. The iPhone7's A10 Fusion is speculated to be at around 1.8teraflops, so just under double the switch (in docked mode).
 
Heh, you know, a certain blogger put it perfectly.

Those who think of Switch as a portable, tend to think its going to succeed.

Those who think of Switch as a home console, tend to think it's going to tank.

I honesty don't have a sense of how it will sell. My best guess is 40-50 million, more of they put out cheaper handheld and console only models later.

Was just saying I decided I couldn't justify current prices as a console only gamer. I don't really need another platform right now anyway as I'm swamped with stuff I want to play more on PS4 and pc anyway so it's easy for me to wait.
 
Heh, you know, a certain blogger put it perfectly.

Those who think of Switch as a portable, tend to think its going to succeed.

Those who think of Switch as a home console, tend to think it's going to tank.

Thing is, I just don't see a path to success as a home console. I have 3 perfectly viable options for that already. Even if they released something competitive with Scorpio on every front it wouldn't matter. I'd buy it for Nintendo games and be fine with that but I expect it'd sell about the same as Wii U. As a portable it's different enough from both those as well as tablets that it might find a decent niche.

I do occasionally wonder how they'd do with a system that uses carts instead of a BD drive, joycons, a little flash memory for patches and specs close to PS4 Pro for the same cost as a regular PS4 at times. But even that, still probably bad sales. Just not different enough.
 
Heh, you know, a certain blogger put it perfectly.

Those who think of Switch as a portable, tend to think its going to succeed.

Those who think of Switch as a home console, tend to think it's going to tank.

But this cuts both ways.

I think it's a rather capable handheld system, yet it's priced as a home console. That's a snag.
And while it's priced as a home console, it's nowhere near capable enough to hang with other similarly priced consoles in terms of horsepower or third party support.

So it entirely depends on the value people place on the fact that it's a jack of all trades. It's not a handheld, it's not a home console. It's both. And you can't separate the one from the other.
 
But this cuts both ways.

I think it's a rather capable handheld system, yet it's priced as a home console. That's a snag.
And while it's priced as a home console, it's nowhere near capable enough to hang with other similarly priced consoles in terms of horsepower or third party support.

So it entirely depends on the value people place on the fact that it's a jack of all trades. It's not a handheld, it's not a home console. It's both. And you can't separate the one from the other.


This is true, which is why aside from some easily verifiable facts (launch is sold out in the U.S and Japan; Nintendo has not properly detailed online plans; Nintendo's announced lineup) I think we are in uncharted territory as far as projecting how it will do.
 
In 2012, the PlayStation Vita launched with a full-featured Party system, cross game invites, text, voice, and picture messaging, group messaging, activity logs for all games to show your and friends' progress in games, etc. A handheld from five years ago. This is not to mention all of that functionality is free to use. It's pathetic that Nintendo isn't taking this stuff seriously. It's 2017. You expect a game console, whether home or handheld, to have a certain amount of functionality.
 
Most of us already have a more powerful portable system in our pockets. The iPhone7's A10 Fusion is speculated to be at around 1.8teraflops, so just under double the switch (in docked mode).

Oh this is rich

Do you seriously think your iphone 7 is even close to a PS4 ?

Cmon son


Hell, i wanna see the receipts for that 1.8Tflop claim.
 
Thing is, I just don't see a path to success as a home console. I have 3 perfectly viable options for that already. Even if they released something competitive with Scorpio on every front it wouldn't matter. I'd buy it for Nintendo games and be fine with that but I expect it'd sell about the same as Wii U. As a portable it's different enough from both those as well as tablets that it might find a decent niche.

I do occasionally wonder how they'd do with a system that uses carts instead of a BD drive, joycons, a little flash memory for patches and specs close to PS4 Pro for the same cost as a regular PS4 at times. But even that, still probably bad sales. Just not different enough.

I think a cheaper console only version could do well as a secondary console for PS4/X1 owners. Unfortunately I don't see that coming out.
 
Look, I preordered the Switch. In fact, I preordered it from four different retailers (such is my confidence that Nintendo is capable of properly predicting and, in turn, satisfying retail demand). I'd very much love to be proven wrong here. Maybe, in some corporate boardroom in Kyoto, a group of very smart people decided that it was a wise strategy to continue to leave would-be purchasers of this new hardware in the dark regarding one of the company's most visible and acknowledged weaknesses.
Sounds like the author is part of the problem. You worry about being left in the dark, about not having enough information about what the system does, about Nintendo's history, and you pre-order it anyways? Four times?

Yeah, that'll teach Nintendo. Good job.

This.

It doesn't how much this guy feels concerned or complains about the mistakes he feels Nintendo is repeating with the Switch; if he buys a Switch (at launch) then he has told Nintendo "You can still have my money anyway." He is confirming and proving to Nintendo they didn't have to learn from the Wii U's mistakes after all. He is in fact allowing Nintendo to ask the question "You still bought it, so why would we have taken a different approach?"

I also find fault with the author using one aspect of the Switch alone --the online infrastructure-- as a metric to predict the performance of the platform as a whole. This could had been easily avoided if the article was either written to focus on specific outcomes of the Switch related to the online infrastructure; or if the author had included additional aspects about the platform (game lineup, pricing/development costs, third-party support, etc.) he was concerned about if he wanted to talk about the general outcome of the Switch.

But with all of that said, I think the author's concerns in the article are valid otherwise.
 
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