I went through that door opening covered with leaves and I see this big open area with three flying Guardians. I am not really sure what they are guarding here though. No sign of Dinraal either. I have not found a good way to get rid of these flying bastards yet, so what do I do here?
Compare how Hyrule castle fits into the world with how the shrines/dungeons are separate from it (because of the super powerful traversal powers of Link).
I want dungeons that fit into the world more like Hyrule castle, but have the content more of a shrine, but not completely of a shrine.
I haven't been to the castle yet apart from the outskirts and this is exactly what I'm trying to suggest. A smaller world -- but still big! -- but populated with bigger dungeons organically worked into the world. I feel like once I play through Hyrule Castle that it'll make me happier and what I'm actually looking for, even just if in other ways. I'm sure the Beasts are more involved with the puzzles and whatnot, but at least it won't be the same thing aesthetically.
It sounds like I don't like the dungeons/shrines. That's not true at all. I just have some criticisms that I feel could make it all so much better, for me at least.
I went through that door opening covered with leaves and I see this big open area with three flying Guardians. I am not really sure what they are guarding here though. No sign of Dinraal either. I have not found a good way to get rid of these flying bastards yet, so what do I do here?
I haven't been to the castle yet apart from the outskirts and this is exactly what I'm trying to suggest. A smaller world -- but still big! -- but populated with bigger dungeons organically worked into the world. I feel like once I play through Hyrule Castle that it'll make me happier and what I'm actually looking for, even just if in other ways. I'm sure the Beasts are more involved with the puzzles and whatnot, but at least it won't be the same thing aesthetically.
It sounds like I don't like the dungeons/shrines. That's not true at all. I just have some criticisms that I feel could make it all so much better, for me at least.
I went through that door opening covered with leaves and I see this big open area with three flying Guardians. I am not really sure what they are guarding here though. No sign of Dinraal either. I have not found a good way to get rid of these flying bastards yet, so what do I do here?
Check the map topography and float down from above instead. You can probably avoid them if you're careful, or shield parry usually drops those in 3-4 hits.
I went through that door opening covered with leaves and I see this big open area with three flying Guardians. I am not really sure what they are guarding here though. No sign of Dinraal either. I have not found a good way to get rid of these flying bastards yet, so what do I do here?
Check the map topography and float down from above instead. You can probably avoid them if you're careful, or shield parry usually drops those in 3-4 hits.
Yeah. To me it feels the shrines were implemented in order to beat deadlines, or because internally they just got sick of the formula (I suspect the former but still a cool solution to the problem). Like they had all these individual puzzles thought out and ready to be textured to match the themes of a traditional Zelda dungeon, but then saw the deadline approaching and came up with the shrine solution as a workaround.
Shrines are my favorite part of the game since the puzzles are great, but from an art direction perspective I would say it's the most creatively bankrupt part of the game.
The shrines concept isn't a quick solution fix. When unlocked, they serves as fast travel spots, very evenly distributed across the whole map. Their physical structures have been carefully planned in the 3D landscape. The rewards they give (apart from fast travel) are things that were found as random heart containers in the old games.
Why, why, why dear GOD why did they think this way of implementing weapon durability would be fun in any way shape or form? Fighting that first Lynel which I assume is just a random tough enemy, I spent half the fight pausing the game to go through like seriously 5-6 swords. Wat...
Even the process of switching weapons is one that doesn't make sense in the heat of battle. Woops my paper maiche sword broke, let me just stand still - even if it is for 1-2 seconds - to use the quickmenu as this beast is descending upon me.
Thank fuck the game is amazing overall, if I don't get a normal damn weapon soon this mechanic will seriously taint my experience with this.
Why, why, why dear GOD why did they think this way of implementing weapon durability would be fun in any way shape or form? Fighting that first Lynel which I assume is just a random tough enemy, I spent half the fight pausing the game to go through like seriously 5-6 swords. Wat...
Even the process of switching weapons is one that doesn't make sense in the heat of battle. Woops my paper maiche sword broke, let me just stand still - even if it is for 1-2 seconds - to use the quickmenu as this beast is descending upon me.
Thank fuck the game is amazing overall, if I don't get a normal damn weapon soon this mechanic will seriously taint my experience with this.
Why, why, why dear GOD why did they think this way of implementing weapon durability would be fun in any way shape or form? Fighting that first Lynel which I assume is just a random tough enemy, I spent half the fight pausing the game to go through like seriously 5-6 swords. Wat...
Even the process of switching weapons is one that doesn't make sense in the heat of battle. Woops my paper maiche sword broke, let me just stand still - even if it is for 1-2 seconds - to use the quickmenu as this beast is descending upon me.
Thank fuck the game is amazing overall, if I don't get a normal damn weapon soon this mechanic will seriously taint my experience with this.
You don't have to fight the Lynel. The game tells you not to fight the Lynel. You're supposed to sneak around and gather shock arrows, not kill the hardest enemy class in the game. You don't have to do this to yourself if you don't want to.
If you're having this much trouble killing it, stop trying. Come back when you're better at combat or have better weapons.
Snow bowling at Pondo's Lodge near Hebra Tower, by some margin. 300 rupees (less the 20 to play) for every strike, assuming you get the technique down.
Why, why, why dear GOD why did they think this way of implementing weapon durability would be fun in any way shape or form? Fighting that first Lynel which I assume is just a random tough enemy, I spent half the fight pausing the game to go through like seriously 5-6 swords. Wat...
Even the process of switching weapons is one that doesn't make sense in the heat of battle. Woops my paper maiche sword broke, let me just stand still - even if it is for 1-2 seconds - to use the quickmenu as this beast is descending upon me.
Thank fuck the game is amazing overall, if I don't get a normal damn weapon soon this mechanic will seriously taint my experience with this.
Lynels are tough to beat even for some that have beat the game. No one is forcing you to fight them. When I got up to the summit that the Lynel was at. I noticed a shock arrow in the tree. I then found 25 shock arrows stuck to various trees around the summit. I left the area with 25 shock arrows without the Lynel even noticing me sneaking around.
Why, why, why dear GOD why did they think this way of implementing weapon durability would be fun in any way shape or form? Fighting that first Lynel which I assume is just a random tough enemy, I spent half the fight pausing the game to go through like seriously 5-6 swords. Wat...
Even the process of switching weapons is one that doesn't make sense in the heat of battle. Woops my paper maiche sword broke, let me just stand still - even if it is for 1-2 seconds - to use the quickmenu as this beast is descending upon me.
Thank fuck the game is amazing overall, if I don't get a normal damn weapon soon this mechanic will seriously taint my experience with this.
1) You are not going to obtain a non-breakable weapon in this game BUT you will start getting weapons with skills like Attack +14 or Durability Up.
2) Make attack potions/meals to deal more damage per weapon. Lynels are tough but with good cooking/weapons you would not need to burn trough more than 2 of them.
3) Weapons that are encountered outside chests and the like re spawn after every Blood Moon so you could mark spots with cool weapons and come back a obtain another one.
Yes... what color it was? The red ones are the weaker but they all have an insane amount of health which I guess it's designed to make you aware of the cooking and quality of your weapons... and also to make you creative (like, don't always use meele, instead use an updraft + arrows to deal some hits, use bombs, Stasis+, etc...)
Compare how Hyrule castle fits into the world with how the shrines/dungeons are separate from it (because of the super powerful traversal powers of Link).
I want dungeons that fit into the world more like Hyrule castle, but have the content more of a shrine, but not completely of a shrine.
Consider how every dungeon has the same enemies and has a boss that, imo, comes across as non-iconic and lacking in mechanics. Perhaps obvious pattern/weakness bosses were a good thing to move on from, but I don't think what they've replaced them with is better (and is in fact at its best when it reverts to the old pattern).
They also have the same runes and same "move the dungeon" mechanic, whereas in other Zeldas the individual conceits and gadgets of dungeons were more distinct.
Consider how every dungeon is about 2-3 shrines in length. Compared to the extensive overworld time, that feels woefully short. There are only four of them. Give me 8-10. Like a LoZ or aLttP.
Beyond that, the Divine Beasts' relationship to Ganon is just bad. No way I'm not going to do the dungeons in a Zelda and then I get a pretty lame Ganon fight as a reward.
Perhaps none of these things matter to you, but I think there are plenty of good areas for concern with these dungeons.
Exactly, the problem with Hyrule Castle is it has no puzzles whatsoever because you can simply skip anything it has to offer from a room to room basis. Either you give up Link's open-world traversal mechanics to make these integrated dungeons in the overworld happen or you make these a thing that exists outside of the overworld. And what direction you choose here becomes a complete matter of taste. Otherwise the mechanical beasts do feel like they are part of the overworld and that is great. Bosses do look the same and do not scale to your progress outside of the game which is the bigger issue but they are a step in the right direction. Bosses that can be defeated in multiple ways either with your runes or by simple combat is exactly how Zelda bosses should be.
I don't consider there being no enemies in the mechanical beasts as a negative as you have plenty of that outside of the game. In past games combat areans were always seperated by the puzzle rooms even in dungeons so that distinction is similar only structured differently. The combat is mostly in the overworld. What is a negative for me is the number of varied mini-bosses you usually see in Zelda games not being present in the overworld but that is a completely different matter.
They have the same rune and moving parts mechanic but in no way become they stale. Moving the parts in each dungeon has a different purpose and are part of a different puzzle. They feel more like a item you have than the same puzzle because they are exactly that. You can move parts of the dungeon and how that affects the dungeon is different in each of them.
If you should have all items from the start is a thing of debate since forever with Zelda games. In a perfect scenario that should be the standard for Zelda games so puzzle complexity can reach it's full potential instead of mostly one item only being used throughout each of one dungeon.
I already commented on the length and that I feel if you just made them bigger that would solve most of its "problems". The concept itself is brilliant, novel and generally very fitting to the open-world format.
That Ganon becomes easier as you do the dungeons doesn't really have to do anything with the dungeons themselves. That's simply something they put in as an additional reward for the player which they could have done without.
There is concern and then there is disregarding the divine beasts as something that is completely inferior to past Zelda dungeons which I cannot agree with. The quality and how it is executed is there in spade and I feel the only problem here is quantity.
havent posted yet, but just gonna say i think that the game is so close to being perfect.
i love the world size, and if they choose to go smaller next time, ill be a sad boy.
frankly the only thing that it lacks is traditional dungeons. slap those into the next one with the gameplay and overworld size of this one and it would be literally perfect for me.
various mazes and stuff like the labyrinths in the corners of the world where you get the Barbarian gear, the forest mazes
, things like that, I'm so much more into the actual moment to moment gameplay and exploration than just a big giant open world. That stuff felt more "Zelda" to me. I was into Skyward Sword's moment to moment gameplay more and preferred the "linearity" of the environments as I found them well designed and fun.
Some people dislike that. I guess I just prefer that kind of thing. I don't have a problem with the world in this game apart from the size and I wish it had more focused areas like above mentioned. Sounds like the last place will be my favorite part of the game.
Now feel empty inside. I really loved this game, absolutely one of the best games I've ever played period. Last time I felt like this towards video games was witcher 3. Just nothing is going to feel as good until we get another genre changer like Zelda.
Time to set the switch aside till some Mario kart fun next month.
It's been great chatting with you folks in here, going to just play some NBA to let everything sink in. Ggggaaaaahhhhhhh this sucks lol
Yes... what color it was? The red ones are the weaker but they all have an insane amount of health which I guess it's designed to make you aware of the cooking and quality of your weapons... and also to make you creative (like, don't always use meele, instead use an updraft + arrows to deal some hits, use bombs, Stasis+, etc...)
Now feel empty inside. I really loved this game, absolutely one of the best games I've ever played period. Last time I felt like this towards video games was witcher 3. Just nothing is going to feel as good until we get another genre changer like Zelda.
Time to set the switch aside till some Mario kart fun next month.
It's been great chatting with you folks in here, going to just play some NBA to let everything sink in. Ggggaaaaahhhhhhh this sucks lol
Actually hoping for more standard dungeons next time. Seems they were limited kind of by design due to the way they did he story and creation of the divine beasts
So, do you need to something special to get to the Divine Beast near the volcano? I've tried a few times to go there, but I keep getting into paths that are too hot and nearly die.
Why, why, why dear GOD why did they think this way of implementing weapon durability would be fun in any way shape or form? Fighting that first Lynel which I assume is just a random tough enemy, I spent half the fight pausing the game to go through like seriously 5-6 swords. Wat...
Even the process of switching weapons is one that doesn't make sense in the heat of battle. Woops my paper maiche sword broke, let me just stand still - even if it is for 1-2 seconds - to use the quickmenu as this beast is descending upon me.
Thank fuck the game is amazing overall, if I don't get a normal damn weapon soon this mechanic will seriously taint my experience with this.
I don't see how a smaller but still really big world would be a bad thing, especially where it would take less development time, resources and assets-- and still be fucking enormous. Like the "I need a giant world!" folk would still be satisfied with that, and it would likely result in more focused aspects.
maxed out), and I wish I had the foresight to chart my numbers day by day as they would have made for an interesting data set. Shrines have slowed down considerably in the past few days of play; I'm only cracking one or two a day, and it's not for lack of searching, as my Korok count has more than doubled in the meantime. Finding out how many Koroks there are in total, and that you only need
less than half that number to unlock all inventory slots
, has actually encouraged me to keep an eye out for them as I travel: I know 100% is beyond me but also that I can be satisfied with much less, and so the pressure is off, and the system comes off as an unbounded currency that is also designed and task-specific, true to the spirit of Zelda-style progression.
Oddly, even at this late stage, the game is reliably able to deliver a sense of "Wait, have I really not been here yet?", revealing nuance and interest in surprisingly large areas I must have ridden past or flown right over. The beeping shrine detector, formerly an incessant annoyance with a range too large to be of any navigational use, is now a welcome and unexpected intervention. At 100+ shrines you begin to assume that you've seen everything that might set it off, every shrine already exposed to the world instead of locked or hidden. And you would be wrong.
I'm so close to accomplishing the thoroughly useless feat of clearing 120 shrines before hitting any of the Divine Beasts or powering up the slate that I'm very tempted to go all the way with it, but I also know that the shrine hunt has slowed to the point where, at this rate, this might take me the rest of the month.
4 of the 12 that remain are accounted for already, in terms of location, and I've already spent many fruitless hours trying to crack them; in all cases, I am either missing an essential tip from an NPC or taking the wrong approach entirely. They are:
-
The orb-locked platform near the Great Fairy Fountain just outside Kakariko. I can't find an orb anywhere in the vicinity and briefly considered walking one over from some other puzzle area an entire zone away, only to realize that the only ones I knew about had already been spent. I've considered that this might be something really trivial requiring me to proceed on the main quest, since this is such an introductory area.
-
The platform at the Veiled Falls west of Zora's Domain. This clearly seems like a case of requiring a specific activation clue, like one pertaining to the day-night cycle, and just not finding it.
- Two that are somewhat related:
Spring of Wisdom, Spring of Courage. I stumbled upon Naydra in my first few days, but it seems clear that Farosh and Dinraal are not as simple a matter of ascending just the right peak. The cryptic clues for Farosh involving Lake Floria are either useless or perhaps dependent on factors like the time of day, while I haven't found any scrap of information pertaining to Dinraal. Maybe he's up Death Mountain, which I can't approach too closely just yet as the Divine Beast is still stomping around the caldera.
(I'm not asking for hints, at least not yet; I supply them here in case anyone who has completed the game is curious about what others are struggling with.)
All of these stumbling blocks have one thing in common: they're not about solving a problem or riddle, located and bounded, but about finding something in the world by looking in just the right place. And what is unique to the seamlessness and boundlessness of BotW is that you never know how large your search radius is supposed to be. Well, this game is big enough to cater to all types, but I prefer the well-defined riddles.
Speaking of which, Kitano Bay:
I thought all of the other Kass riddles were fairly straightforward, but this one was a little dreadful. 17 of 24? Well, my first thought was "17th largest of the 24 protrusions surrounding the pillar"—and somehow I missed the buried treasure chest even though it was right there, so I must have picked the wrong one. This led me on a wild goose chase for treasure spawn locations all the way to Hateno Bay in the east, since the pillar pointed in that direction, as I began to believe that "17 of 24" had something to do with the time of day, 5pm. Then I had second thoughts about this on realizing that clock-dependent conditions might be a little rough on people who have chosen to play with the Pro UI. I still don't understand how I solved this, though I think it's supposed to be "the protrusion under the shadow cast by the pillar at 5pm", as that is ultimately the solution that lined up. The reward was not worth it.
*
On progression in the late game:
- I found my fourth
Great Fairy
a few days ago, and all of sudden, money is no object anymore. I don't know why people are bothering to circulate rupee-grinding tricks when they are completely unnecessary: at my pace in the game I had pretty much exactly what I needed in order to
unlock the last Great Fairy and upgrade nearly all of my pieces to four stars, for which the requirements were much lower than I expected given the jump from two to three stars.
What I was lacking was not cash or gems but specific enemy drops. And it occurred to me, as I caught up on a few of those requirements, that this is the only "kill X of Y" quest board in the game. And it's well disguised enough that you don't necessarily notice that this is what it is, because the choice to pursue those specific objectives is entirely self-guided based on what you want to work on.
- It's also clear to me from this that the real endgame is
completing the Barbarian set up to four stars, which requires you to retrieve all three pieces from the Lomei Labyrinths (unless you buy the pieces from the fellow in Tarrey Town like a scrub, a Deku Scrub), murder over a dozen Lynels (which, unlike Guardians, still present an execution barrier even after you've learnt their patterns and know exactly what to do), and finally retrieve shards from the horns of the three dragons. The last of these is something I didn't know you could do and don't know how to do, especially as I've only found the shrine for one of them; and if I hadn't been spoiled that Naydra doesn't completely vanish from the world once you cleanse her at the Spring of Wisdom, I wouldn't know about it even now.
- On enemy difficulty: one interesting effect of the scaling model is that
"world bosses" (Hinox, Stalnox, Molduga, Talus, and to some extent Guardians once you get the point of tackling them) never get any harder and all go down quite easily because their health is static and their attacks are not weapon-dependent. By the time you get up to 52-damage Royal Claymores, you can take out a Hinox with a single spin attack before it finishes getting up on its feet.
In my first week with the game I tagged every one of them with a skull stamp on the map, and now I regret it, as it led to a lot of unnecessary clutter and also ran me out of stamps; I've since begun to remove them.
Meanwhile, the enemies that are weapon-dependent hit a whole lot harder and, in the case of the white-tinted elite editions of basic enemies (Bokoblin/Moblin/Lizalfos), have health pools that compete with those larger, formerly more threatening foes. I thought I was in the clear once I got my armour up to the 60s with every kind of elemental resistance at the ready, but I still had half my health lopped off in one hit by a Lynel with an 89-damage club. The good news: I now have an 89-damage club.
*
Further discovery awaits. It wasn't until I hit 108 shrines that I finally discovered what Fang & Bone was all about and
acquired the Bokoblin Mask
, and other mysteries in the world remain unresolved—among them, the entirety of the main plot.
Why, why, why dear GOD why did they think this way of implementing weapon durability would be fun in any way shape or form? Fighting that first Lynel which I assume is just a random tough enemy, I spent half the fight pausing the game to go through like seriously 5-6 swords. Wat...
Even the process of switching weapons is one that doesn't make sense in the heat of battle. Woops my paper maiche sword broke, let me just stand still - even if it is for 1-2 seconds - to use the quickmenu as this beast is descending upon me.
Thank fuck the game is amazing overall, if I don't get a normal damn weapon soon this mechanic will seriously taint my experience with this.
Yeah. One of the profound improvements in BotW is its trust in the player. It is not overly simple, it will not force you to do things "the right way." I'm so happy the handholding is gone, and players are free to make mistakes.
I don't see how a smaller but still really big world would be a bad thing, especially where it would take less development time, resources and assets-- and still be fucking enormous. Like the "I need a giant world!" folk would still be satisfied with that, and it would likely result in more focused aspects.
the thing is, its not really lacking in any focused aspects for me.
im not a zelda story whore, i dont care about developing relationships with npcs and shit, etc.
im in it for the vast exploration of the unknown, the feeling that the world goes ever on and on, even if i know it has an eventual limit. of running across fields and mountains and swamps and forests looking for my next focal point of adventure, while at the same time enjoying the journey there. for me, its about the destination and the journey.
the only thing it truly lacks, again, are the large traditional zelda dungeons.
to me, this game was close to a 3d realization of something like the adventure of link, which is probably tied with this game as my favorite zelda. a gigantic world with just dense enough towns to make it interesting and give me a point to launch off into my next foray into the world.
I don't think it lacks focus, just that I think it could be smaller and even more focused. It's a great game, I love it to bits but I don't need it to be that large for a sense of discovery. It can still be very big and still feel adventurous with plenty of exploration.
Moreover, you can set your own cycle of high-level resource management guiding what you want to fight and when.
I fight a little too conservatively, clearing everything I can with bombs or standard arrows before diving in. (Clearing camps in BotW has a much greater resemblance to Arkham City than I expected going in. Climb, snipe, glide; climb, snipe, glide; dive into the thick of it once you're ready.) So I always wind up stuffed with a high-powered weapon stash with staggering damage numbers that I don't want to waste on weak enemies or Stasis boulders, but that leads me to treat tougher enemies like Lynels as resource dumps. The thinking runs like this: "I have too many good weapons; time to trade them in for Lynel or Guardian parts."
I don't think it lacks focus, just that I think it could be smaller and even more focused. It's a great game, I love it to bits but I don't need it to be that large for a sense of discovery. It can still be very big and still feel adventurous with plenty of exploration.
The map could easily be half the size and I would still be satisfied, to be honest. This isn't to say I want it to be, just that it could be. The verticality makes the map even larger because a ton of travel can be packed into a small flat footprint.
Caved in and got a Smash Bros. Zelda amiibo. Holy fuck, the Twilight Bow is busted. Might as well have payed for a cheat code, honestly. Doesn't beat my collection of Saveage Lynel Bows for raw damage, but it's easily the best utility bow in the game I figure.
Also found the final great fairy. Cash wasn't a problem, but I recoiled in horror when I saw what it would take to max out my
Well gang, I've started to realize something about BOTW , once the main quest starts to wind down and you've found all the towers ... the sense of discovery diminishes and with it goes at least some of the joy of exploring the world.
It's not much of a drop mind you but , so far the most fun I've had with this game was right after completing one dungeon , just going around and seeing what was out there until I had the map nearly filled out. I wasn't even being very thorough with searching areas, just checking them out , doing whatever shrines were obvious. Finding korok seeds by accident.
Now , I'm at this weird place with the game where a good 30% of the map is left just sitting there for no real reason unless I , as a player, want to go do that stuff. It feels like they could have cut down the number of shrines by ... say half ? and put in 4 other dungeons instead to make sure people DID need to go everywhere.
I mean, it's a very small strange issue I'm having now because I've "seen" most of the game at this point but not really experienced all of it. There is most assuredly some burnout happening, over 50 hours into it at this point with at least 10 more by my estimate to finish the game off.
Basically... I wonder now , if 10 years in the future many people will look back on BOTW in the same way we all look at OOT, that is - "oh yeah that game was a masterpiece" but no one actually ever wants to play it again because half the fun of it was seeing and experiencing all of it for the first time.
I suppose my core issue is that I feel like, as great as this as all been so far , I wish it would have ended after 40 hours and the map was 60% smaller to accommodate that. The hidden subtext here is that I ACTUALLY wish the game was less addicting so I could have spent (some of the)95% of my spare time these past 2 weeks doing something other than playing this.
Odd complaint to have , I know. "this game is almost too good". But there it is.
Yeah, I regret selling all my ore early on. You should basically save everything that isn't food until you definitely don't need IMO. Just cooking and selling food makes you enough money.
The map could easily be half the size and I would still be satisfied, to be honest. This isn't to say I want it to be, just that it could be. The verticality makes the map even larger because a ton of travel can be packed into a small flat footprint.
Just finished my first run last night. Unlocked the whole map, all memories, all beasts, 74 shrines and some amount of korok seeds. 80ish hours. Easily one of the best games I've played in years. (I run guide free and just play until I feel ready to finish.)
Now to wait, see what all the DLC brings and plot a new play through. Going to be playing this thing for years.
Notes:
I hope hard mode is a tuned and more realistic survival simulator and not just a damage mod
Game could use weapon swap QoL improvements
Early steel based weapons should break somewhat less often. Composition of enemy body and weapon type (machine vs human, hammer vs blade) should be accounted for and weapon drops adjusted accordingly
The usual performance gripes and bugs (moblin freeze, blood moon glitch)
