Vox: Comedians cover Trump better than actual news

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News "programs" and their "fact based" reporting are fucked by their claim to equal time, but no longer being bound to it ethically, professionally, or legally. What they are bound to is the whims of their producers, meaning the company that owns the rights to the show, and to their sponsors. And at the top of that of course is whoever owns the station. So if any of those sunflowers are pointing in the direction of that Big Glowing Orange Motherfucker, the news will go from cloudy to fucked depending on the variables.

comedians are going to just go for the throat. because its funny and this person gives them so much material, and he makes us so uncomfortable that we need to laugh or else we'll scream.

edit: I sure with they wrote articles though, because I had to fast forward through that overlong video.
 
Comedians often say what the rest of us thinking, great comedians can do this and also distill it into a very straight forward manner even if its using humor and to get laughs. I'd even say comedians are often better at messaging and getting the point across than a lot of journalists because that's their entire job.
 
People here still believe entretainment-news media is at war with Trump. They are just playing their part to feed the madness of this reality tv programme, which brings in the big bucks.

"Trump not being good for America, but he is very good to us [the media]" is still the prevalent guiding notion.
 
It's the whole "demonstrating absurdity by being absurd" angle. Sure, it's funny, but when the topic that you're covering is so batshit insane that common sense has not only left the building, but the planet, you have to tackle it in a way that shows the audience just how ridiculous it is.
 
He makes a great point. My brain melts in frustration when mainstream media outlets play both sides angle. Especially CNN were they have paid hosts to defend the BS coming from the Trump Administration.
 
comedians also get a much smaller amount of time, the problem with 24/7 news is that you need to cover the most mundane shit for...well....24/7
 
Ugh this just made me think back to that Joe Walsh interview and how Obama was held to a lower standard because he's black, and then the news anchor cuts him off with "two very different opinions"

Fuck you.
 
I was thinking of making a thread on this video. Thank you OP.

I have stopped watching news entirely. I either read it on NY Times/Washington Post, or I get it from watching Colbert, Bee, Oliver. The dedicated news networks are not cutting through the BS like the video points out.
 
I'm hooked to all these shows because I can get a good glimpse about what is happening with a zero bullshit tolerance. Traditional news are nice but plainly objective, so it's good to get a bit of help with perspective.
 
I couldn't finish this because it was pissing me off too much.

Comedians can come out and say things that call bullshit because they don't have to worry about integrity. There's a reason outlets like New York Times don't just come out and call BS, because if they are wrong it hurst their integrity.

I'll argue that comedians constantly making jokes and providing satire only does more to "normalize" Trump and give more ammo to his supporting base.
 
A Serious Man said:
Surrogates are the bane of intelligent discourse.
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They destroy every discussion, because you're primed to just hear the bullshit flow from their mouth to derail every rational point.

The really cynical part? It makes for a more animated panel, which they probably associate with better ratings. It's not about getting the news at all.
 
Unfettered capitalism will be the death of our species if we don't put a check on it.

People and the quality of their lives are more important than profits.
 
The court jester never went away.

You can definitely see the townspeople stupidly arguing with each other about who's more ignorant on any news network at any moment in the day, though.

LegendofJoe said:
Unfettered capitalism will be the death of our species if we don't put a check on it.

People and the quality of their lives are more important than profits.
Click to expand...
We're getting closer everyday to money destroying civilization.
 
Newspapers and podcasts are good too. Newspapers can leave bullshit on the cutting room floor or add fact checks before publishing, and the longer and more casual discussions in podcasts help cut around bullshit and get the the core of the issues better than a 5 minute interview.

TV news is the absolute worst. I can't imagine how anyone uses it as their primary news source, and yet it's somehow the most popular news source. Comedians are certainly the best source of news on TV.
 
I also wasn't really feeling Vox coming at this like "HEY TRUMP IS SO DUMB AND FUNNY" as if he wont have some long term impact things is kind of twisted. Ugh, I just hate Vox.
 
TarpitCarnivore said:
I couldn't finish this because it was pissing me off too much.

Comedians can come out and say things that call bullshit because they don't have to worry about integrity. There's a reason outlets like New York Times don't just come out and call BS, because if they are wrong it hurst their integrity.

I'll argue that comedians constantly making jokes and providing satire only does more to "normalize" Trump and give more ammo to his supporting base.
Click to expand...

I'd argue those involved with things like the alt right, gamer gate, etc. did more than enough to normalize themselves. Comedians are now just lapping up the easy pickings in terms of jokes.
 
This isn't new. During the W Bush years, "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart", was doing the most honest and accurate coverage of that presidency.
 
TarpitCarnivore said:
I couldn't finish this because it was pissing me off too much.

Comedians can come out and say things that call bullshit because they don't have to worry about integrity. There's a reason outlets like New York Times don't just come out and call BS, because if they are wrong it hurst their integrity.

I'll argue that comedians constantly making jokes and providing satire only does more to "normalize" Trump and give more ammo to his supporting base.
Click to expand...

Yes, let's not laugh at about how dumb people are doing dumb stuffs because other dumb people might hate you more for laughing at them. You say they don't have to worry about integrity yet I'd say they are usually far more on the point than actual cable news networks (i.e. Trump's speech to Congress). Actually on that point, cable news networks praising how Trump was presidential after his speech to Congress did far more to "normalize" him than anything else. That was entirely ridiculous.
 
Totakeke said:
Yes, let's not laugh at about how dumb people are doing dumb stuffs because other dumb people might hate you more for laughing at them. You say they don't have to worry about integrity yet I'd say they are usually far more on the point than actual cable news networks (i.e. Trump's speech to Congress). Actually on that point, cable news networks praising how Trump was presidential after his speech to Congress did far more to "normalize" him than anything else. That was entirely ridiculous.
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Ok, then can we argue that Vox using broad term of journalism when they really mean 24/7 news networks? There's people doing good hard work in traditional news outlets
 
The media not calling bullshit on bullshit is the story of this entire election.

Trump lies right to your face.....and then you choose to debate about it for hours. The "debate" that the world is flat is an apt comparison. Trump is tapping into the inherent fault of news media: ratings. People love to watch arguments and news media will generate an argument even if it shouldn't be possible. In doing so in puts in question everything they report. Cuz everything is debatable.

Comedians cut right through the bullshit for the joke and use that as the ratings boost instead. So they don't have to pretend to entertain any of the bullshit itself
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
We're getting closer everyday to money destroying civilization.
Click to expand...

Agreed, we tolerated the inequities of capitalism for a long time because most governments were responsible enough to the people to account for and check its limitations. And as a result the quality of life increased for the majority of people. In too many places that is no longer the case.

Capitalism isn't perfect, the belief that it is perfect is toxic to society.
 
Is most of what you guys are saying about news not calling bullshit relating to the New York Times or similar papers? I read all of the Times every morning, and they've covered Trump well, imo.

I think what most of you are frustrated by is just how well Trump's team can hide information and squelch investigations. Once the New York Times jumps to conclusions or doesn't verify information like TV does, their paper loses its credibility. Dan Rather's exit from CBS is a salient example of this.

(This is also why I don't bother with a second of TV news. It's infotainment. People are addicted to infotainment now. Fucking bizarre.)
 
TarpitCarnivore said:
Ok, then can we argue that Vox using broad term of journalism when they really mean 24/7 news networks? There's people doing good hard work in traditional news outlets
Click to expand...

Based on the examples they gave in the video that's what I assumed they were talking about. Comedians like Colbert and John Oliver sources print media quite often when they were talking about a factual story.
 
Totakeke said:
Based on the examples they gave in the video that's what I assumed they were talking about. Comedians like Colbert and John Oliver sources print media quite often when they were talking about a factual story.
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But the title and constant use of journalism will get people to assume it means all forms of news, not just 24/7 news networks. Their inability to call out specifically what the problem is kind of ironic to me.
 
I disagree with this take. The problem with comedians covering the Trump administration is that things are unraveling so rapidly that they often can't tell a full story or go back and correct themselves when something they joke about turns out to be inaccurate. Actual news organizations, both print and TV, can update their stories in real-time.

It's also disingenuous to say that news organizations don't call Trump out on his bullshit, either. As much as it sucks having Trump surrogates on CNN, the hosts worth watching (Cooper and Tapper especially) will still pin their asses to the wall -- which, in a way, feels like calling out Trump on his shit very directly.

I enjoy watching comedians like Colbert and Bee and Oliver (and sometimes Maher depending on the level of shithead he's being that night) put their own flavor to the news to make it more palatable, but I won't take their words at face value as being the whole story. That's what NYT, WaPo, and my husbando Anderson Cooper are for -- and why I bought a Sirius XM subscription specifically just to listen to him on the drive home from work.
 
This isn't anything new.

Journalism/the news has been increasingly a shit show.

The only reason things like "FAKE NEWS" takes hold of more than a 2% fringe is that by and large the mainstream media is a pile of flaming feces.
 
I don't think Comedians cover the actual news. They look for things to discuss that can get laughs and applause. The actual job of reporting on news and complex topics is different than what a stand-up can do, in the same way that great philosophers understand topics differently than comics working through ideas and shaping them to please crowds.

Comedians are good at picking on big people and smudging their face, but not so great at discussing actual issues. When comedians start preaching, they stop being funny and become outlets for you to re-affirm your own beliefs.

I think it's something that I caught myself doing watching the Daily Show and Colbert. It's something, without irony, realized listening to Norm MacDonald talking about comedy and politics. The Daily Show worked, because it was comedy. Everything else was surface level and didn't really do anything other than make people laugh who already felt a certain way about a topic.

I think John Oliver's show is the closest you get to an analysis or actual news reporting, but it's still all in service of the jokes. It's also only one topic per week during the time their show runs.

I think people retreating into comedy shows and podcasts for their news and politics is a product of the times and the value/importance people place on legitimate reporting. People would rather laugh and be re-affirmed than to experience dissonance.

I think the major problems facing news media is the corporate influence and the lack of trust normal people have in the conclusions they reach on stories, the value of their product against the empty, computer/SEO driven product online or the way people consume news.

As for politics, I feel the video in the OP displays a large problem with the brand of news as a whole. Political reporting is now a 24/7 horse race or baseball game focused on who made a gaffe and not a specific report on policy.

John Oliver's show would be an interesting to have as a column-type show in conjunction with actual reporting. Reporting that Oliver has applauded and has warned may be disappearing. It's reporting that makes Oliver's show possible.

Summary: All news has been diminished by cable news and the internet. The volume of information has turned every show into pundit programs with some news, because the people want hot takes. Comedy is not a replacement for actual reporting and real newscasts, often times political comedy feels like a form of catharsis and affirmation without a lot of substance. It's entertainment. The traditional press is regressing to the reporting level of comedians rather than the other way around.
 
Watching this video made me realize why right wing comedy shows doesn't work. I don't think we'd be able to have so many different prominent political satirists on TV if republicans weren't so damn ridiculous these days.

Sure, political satire existed before Jon Stewart, but political satire was pretty different in the era of Bush Sr and earlier because politics was so different. What made Jon Stewart and Colbert become so big was the ridiculousness of the Republican party, and the news organizations that cover them. Political comedy only started down this road after Gingrich and Limbaugh rose to prominence and the rest of the party followed in their footsteps while mainstream news largely ignored and legitimized the shift.

Making fun of Obama and MSNBC is like making fun of Bush Sr. You can certainly do it, but you just don't have the material to turn it into a daily news satire show.
 
The gargoyles they bring on those fucking cable panels are responsible for the lobotomization of America. And the news networks (and Maher) profit off of the cheap Springeresque TV that results from it.
 
thepotatoman said:
Watching this video made me realize why right wing comedy shows doesn't work. I don't think we'd be able to have so many different prominent political satirists on TV if republicans weren't so damn ridiculous these days.

Sure, political satire existed before Jon Stewart, but political satire was pretty different in the era of Bush Sr and earlier because politics was so different. What made Jon Stewart and Colbert become so big was the ridiculousness of the Republican party, and the news organizations that cover them. Political comedy only started down this road after Gingrich and Limbaugh rose to prominence and the rest of the party followed in their footsteps.

Making fun of Obama and MSNBC is like making fun of Bush Sr. You can certainly do it, but you just don't have the material to turn it into a daily news satire show.
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Care to explain please? I know there isnt much but I've never fully understood the reason. Is it just because Dems make that much more sense?
 
thepotatoman said:
Watching this video made me realize why right wing comedy shows doesn't work. I don't think we'd be able to have so many different prominent political satirists on TV if republicans weren't so damn ridiculous these days.

Sure, political satire existed before Jon Stewart, but political satire was pretty different in the era of Bush Sr and earlier because politics was so different. What made Jon Stewart and Colbert become so big was the ridiculousness of the Republican party, and the news organizations that cover them. Political comedy only started down this road after Gingrich and Limbaugh rose to prominence and the rest of the party followed in their footsteps while mainstream news largely ignored and legitimized the shift.

Making fun of Obama and MSNBC is like making fun of Bush Sr. You can certainly do it, but you just don't have the material to turn it into a daily news satire show.
Click to expand...
Yo, Republicans were always fucking ridiculous and getting called on it. I remember Pat Buchanan running against Bush Sr.

What happened in 2000 was the Daily Show with Jon Stewart and Fox News started around the same time, and the Daily Show had to stop being the show that provides a TV version of a political cartoon and instead focus on the real news that actually impacted the people working there. It became a show where you took a side on an important political discussion instead of mocking low hanging fruit.

The Oral History of the Daily Show book is great for reading more about this.
 
JABEE said:
Summary: All news has been diminished by cable news and the internet. The volume of information has turned every show into pundit programs with some news, because the people want hot takes. Comedy is not a replacement for actual reporting and real newscasts, often times political comedy feels like a form of catharsis and affirmation without a lot of substance. It's entertainment. The traditional press is regressing to the reporting level of comedians rather than the other way around.
Click to expand...

I think you better summed up what I was trying to say.
 
Alex_Mexico said:
Care to explain please? I know there isnt much but I've never fully understood the reason. Is it just because Dems make that much more sense?
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That post is basically my explanation. As partisan as it sounds, I think it is because the left aren't nearly ridiculous enough, especially in comparison. Of course they do dumb things from time to time, but just not often enough to fill a monday through thursday show with very political jokes aimed directly at democrats.

Make republicans go back to their 80s selves but modernized on the few issues that the public shifted on, and all these political comedy shows will be forced into being way less partisan and political. Even Jon Stewart wasn't that obviously partisan until he started going hard against the 9/11 hysteria and Fox News bullshit.

Maybe there's more to the issue underneath that, but what's making the gap so extreme is the republican party becoming so extreme.
 
Alex_Mexico said:
Care to explain please? I know there isnt much but I've never fully understood the reason. Is it just because Dems make that much more sense?
Click to expand...

Right wing comedy shows don't work because jokes are only funny when they punch up. Since conservatives are basically defenders of the status quo and "the man", a conservative would basically have to make fun of their own ideas/actions to be funny. Comedians are generally liberal because they often point out out hypocrisies, lies, and contradictions which exist within the status quo.
 
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