DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Japanese PM: "We support the US strikes to put a stop to the use of Chemical weapons"
CNBC: US military has launched more than 50 missiles aimed at Syria: NBC News
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ryutaro's mama
Member
NullPointer
Member
And yet, the US changes its policy on Syria from regime change to one that accepts Assad as leader, leaving it up to the people to change things, and days later we see Assad launch a chemical attack. I don't think that's a coincidence or a conspiracy.
The ultimate responsibility for those attacks is on Assad, full stop, and for that I'm glad to see a swift response that might give Syria pause, but God damn if we don't all need this administration to wake the fuck up and start thinking hard about their words and stated views, and to start listening and learning from history and from those who know how this works. This is not a game, and the theatrics we've all been watching need to be in service to a higher purpose and long term vision, and not on Trump's ego, or his need for wins, or his approval ratings, or his emotional reactions.
OK.
I dont trust the current US-government with doing the right decisions here, if this further escelates. I dont think this one single incident will change much, but I am worried that this will evolve in a full scale invasion.
Based on what Trumps says and does all the time, I am more worried now then if Obama would be the one who had been in charge right now. Overall, I would have been more confortable if there were other options possible to bring this war to an end or remove Assad from office.
But since I am just a small civilian and I doubt you and me have the complete overview of this complicated conflict, we are booth not the ones who should be loud and have to give solutions. I just hope the crisis is resolved soon and that Assad may be removed from power.
It's to prevent rampant escalation. It tacitly admits that, yes, people are going to go to war, and there's no real way we can stop you from shooting each other outside of shooting all of you, but if you're going to kill each other at least do it in a way that won't be excessively inhumane.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Syrian Government first response " The strike was limited and expected and we don't expect any military escalation"
Syrian tv
Syrian tv
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
It's about making sure resources aren't tainted, not saving lives
innervision961
Member
So what happens next? Russia runs to UNSC, makes a big show, Trump and Putin go back and forth, we end up lifting sanctions to ease their pain, then Russiagate gets swept under the fog of war?
And in regard to this most recent attack, I thought the more gruesome and vile aspect of it was the immediate followup strikes against clinics trying to save the victims.
NullPointer
Member
The red line is reestablished, the promise of swift force now backs it, and the game can continue with new house rules.
It makes pretty much sense.
Also, you could point out what makes no sense because thats helpful in discussions
ryutaro's mama
Member
We had a chance to do that back in 2012 and this same fucking Congress full of the same partisan morons didn't want to act.
And stood by (and did NOTHING) while this President they are praising (for taking action) tried twice to EO those children from entering the US.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
#French Foreign Minister: The Russians and the Iranians must understand that supporting Assad is meaningless
FlutterPuffs
Member
You cant do surgical strikes with chemical weapons, and the chances that there would be collateral would be high.
Using one is akin to a country using a nuclear strike (well, not as bad but you get the point) so it's imperative that we halt the use of it always.
Uh, isn't it pretty full of meaning that they support Assad? Lol
innervision961
Member
Neither case is ok, but chemical weapons don't just kill people, they torture you to death.
Any Questions
Member
Just head that on bbc radio 4
They would need to go to war witha lot of countries if saving lives was the real priority. They need to put an arbitrary line to save face.
pottymouth
Member
Does anybody find the chemical bombing odd? Syria is supposed to have gotten rid of their chemical weapons. Assad had to have known there would be major consequences with the bombing, as it would let the world know you had the capability still for chemical warfare. So he puts himself in deep shit by bombing a random small town and accomplished nothing but screwing himself.... it just doesn't add up to me.
Now I haven't been following this closely so this might have all been explained. Anybody care to fill me in?
Now I haven't been following this closely so this might have all been explained. Anybody care to fill me in?
King Tubby
Member
That's fair enough, but without a solid plan to actually make things more stable, is it worth it to spend billions of dollars and kill potentially thousands of people in order to make sure that the killing in Syria is by the book? Does the US have the inclination or the ability to not only engage in a prolonged game of whack-a-terrorist-organization, but provide competent financial and technical assistance in rebuilding the country to help whatever moderate factions there are get Syria on its feet again? If not, what does deposing Assad truly accomplish other than leaving responsibility for the aftermath at America's doorstep yet again? It would not only give ISIS more ammunition, it would likely give the world more ISIS' to deal with.
I really reallllly hope that russiagate isn't swept under the rug but the fact that I've lived through a number of administrations wagging the dog when the heat is on tells me I should expect it to vanishor be vastly delayed as people from both sides start sucking from the war machine's teat.
ryutaro's mama
Member
The atrocities committed by Boko Haram against school children in other parts of the world didn't quite make Trump's list of places to intervene.
So the message is, do what you want so long as it isn't chemical weapons.
Also typically the death mechanism from a typical bomb or missle would be pretty quick. Sarin is literally suffocating to death and who even knows what it feels like.
Initial symptoms following exposure to sarin are a runny nose, tightness in the chest and constriction of the pupils. Soon after, the victim has difficulty breathing and experiences nausea and drooling. As the victim continues to lose control of bodily functions, the victim vomits, defecates and urinates. This phase is followed by twitching and jerking. Ultimately, the victim becomes comatose and suffocates in a series of convulsive spasms. Moreover, common mnemonics for the symptomatology of organophosphate poisoning, including sarin gas, are the "killer B's" of bronchorrhea and bronchospasm because they are the leading cause of death,[33] and SLUDGE Salivation, Lacrimation, Urination, Defecation, Gastrointestinal distress, and Emesis.
That's why this shit has been outlawed Essentially since WWI. It's fucking insane to use this shit on people.
Well in the current state of geopolitics and... LOOK SQUIRREL!
ryutaro's mama
Member
The goal isn't to start a war, cause this won't.
The goal is to show the world this President isn't afraid to air strike a recently evacuated base.
Vestal
Junior Member
It makes for a gruesome death thats for sure, but I would say worse is starvation, and FFS there is a lot of that in this fucking world.
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
Probably punishing Syria for using chemical weapons.
Lol at Europe doesn't give a fuck. You are pouring refugees into our counties for decades with your wars.
Destroying countries and bailing out when it's time to clean up.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
That's a terrifying thought.
To deter the use of chemical weapons.
ISee
Member
You just don't want chemical and biological weapons to become the norm in warfare. There were (more or less) three reasons why it was banned after WW1 (geneva protocol, 1925).
First, there were the unique methods of killingand the special sufferingcaused by the gases of World War I. Chlorine damaged ears and eyes and caused death by asphyxiation. It was subsequently replaced by phosgene, a colorless gas that damaged the lungs and caused suffocation in a delayed reaction after exposure. Mustard gas caused blistering of the outer body and internal organs, especially the lungs. Death might come only after prolonged agony. And those who survived often had serious respiratory and other health issues for the rest of their lives.
Second, there was the "indiscriminate" impact of gas warfare. It was diffused broadly in the atmosphereand could blow back into the offensive users or affect civilian populations. This uncontrolled aspect of gas warfare led to opposition among some military leaders on all sides.
Finally, there was a fear of an unknown future. Despite the relatively small number of actual deaths and casualties from chemical warfare compared to the horrific total, there was worry about its much broader use in the future. The inhuman, terrifying images of soldiers in gas masks fed these emotional concerns. Keep in my this was right after WW1, wich was an incredible manslaughter on all sides.
Today this changed a bit, but chemical weapons are classified as WMD. A weapon that can kill and bring significant harm to a large number of humans, buildings or the biosphere.
BouncyFrag
Member
I'd expect Assads reasoning is much different than you think. He is no stranger to committing atrocities. Nothing happened the last time chemical weapons were used.
This is fucking hilarious. You've made multiple attempts at a Muslim ban this year, rather than establishing a working refugee program to get Syrians the fuck out of a warzone you were happy to tolerate for years. Your "conscience" has been happy to let Greece and later Germany address the fallout of your completely failed foreign policy. Meanwhile, Americans say absolutely nothing about their liberal president drone bombing weddings and American citizens abroad. Some conscience.
Nothing good will come of this latest campaign, because America cannot wage drone/proxy warfare in the direct presence of another major military power. As long as Putin and Assad place Russian troops around anything of value, America will not fire on it, and even if any Russian troops are killed, the situation for Syrian civilians will be made worse as tensions ramp up.
The only feasible humanitarian option left is to evacuate as many Syrians who want out as possible.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Looks like Russia told Syria about it and damage is not that much.
Beer Monkey
Member
Russia comes out on top again, same as #russiagate so far.
The USA should be SO proud.
Sidewinder
Member
And flipping the bird to Obama:"My balls are bigger than yours, believe me!"
I know, but it's fun to joke at his expense.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
US informed Russia prior to the strikes,
The strike was meant to destroy the airport and military equipment, it was not meant to kill people yet 6 died.
The use of chemical weapons is probably one of the few ways the situation in syria can actually get worse. So establishing that line is sensible.
But, the use of force is also something with lots of repercussions and one should have a well planned long term strategy for dealing with the fallout of it. Else even well meant surgical strikes can make the situation worse.
I don't have the confindece in Trumps administration to have even the outline of a strategy here. Which is why i'm worried.
Sadly, diplomatic efforts seem to suffer from various parties not actually being interested in peace.
But, the use of force is also something with lots of repercussions and one should have a well planned long term strategy for dealing with the fallout of it. Else even well meant surgical strikes can make the situation worse.
I don't have the confindece in Trumps administration to have even the outline of a strategy here. Which is why i'm worried.
Sadly, diplomatic efforts seem to suffer from various parties not actually being interested in peace.
Yeah they don't give a fuuuuuuck.
People are going to hate on the US no matter what actions Trump does or doesn't take.
If the US does nothing people get mad over how awful it is that a county that has the means to act ignores what Assad is doing. Of course this also opens the floodgates of all the Russia collusion theories. If the US does something in Syria then people are upset that the US is once again acting as the world police and/or attempting to cover up the whole Russia issue.
So basically no matter what happens the US is in the wrong according to large groups of people, so I have a hard time shedding any tears for a piece of human filth like Assad.
If the US does nothing people get mad over how awful it is that a county that has the means to act ignores what Assad is doing. Of course this also opens the floodgates of all the Russia collusion theories. If the US does something in Syria then people are upset that the US is once again acting as the world police and/or attempting to cover up the whole Russia issue.
So basically no matter what happens the US is in the wrong according to large groups of people, so I have a hard time shedding any tears for a piece of human filth like Assad.
ISee
Member
What?! Are you saying a one time bombing achieved nothing and possibly made the situation for the population even worse, because both sides (IS and Assad) used chemical warfare before in this conflict and they will keep on using it?
Could it be that both sides in this syrian conflict are evil and that throwing missiles at assad isn't achieving anything because the situation in syria is way more complicated than trump is willing and even able to understand? Could the only logical way to help a civilian population that is trapped between a regime using chemical weapons and the IS using chemical weapons be to get them out?
No, of course not. Bombing will help them though.
/s
Fucking Trump playing the strong and concerned leader, while giving a shit about syria and even trying to ban them from entering 'his' country.
jellies_two
Member
Take your pick of the bad news
1. Trump is an idiot. who wants him to run a delicate military campaign against an annoyed super power?
2. Trump realizes he can control the news with military action
3. Trump needs rescuing from poll death and this works out well for him
4. Putin has let trump perform some theatrics to get his ally trump out of the domestic ditch
5. Putin and someone on team trump cooked up the whole thing. (Because the random gas attack was weird)
6. Rex knows regime change will come at price of sanctions lifted (but secretly loves this idea). This is the path they have picked. Jettison maga, build a new globalist agenda based on autocrats.
Or
7. Trump is a master strategist and put Russia and Syria in its place by bombing fuel pumps and some planes at one airfield.
It seems talking heads and parts of the senate want to believe item (7).
Personally that's the least likely scenario. But America is nothing if not jingoistic.
1. Trump is an idiot. who wants him to run a delicate military campaign against an annoyed super power?
2. Trump realizes he can control the news with military action
3. Trump needs rescuing from poll death and this works out well for him
4. Putin has let trump perform some theatrics to get his ally trump out of the domestic ditch
5. Putin and someone on team trump cooked up the whole thing. (Because the random gas attack was weird)
6. Rex knows regime change will come at price of sanctions lifted (but secretly loves this idea). This is the path they have picked. Jettison maga, build a new globalist agenda based on autocrats.
Or
7. Trump is a master strategist and put Russia and Syria in its place by bombing fuel pumps and some planes at one airfield.
It seems talking heads and parts of the senate want to believe item (7).
Personally that's the least likely scenario. But America is nothing if not jingoistic.
King Tubby
Member
Not to mention that Trump is getting some of the best coverage of his entire administration as a result of firing missiles into a war zone. Is that really going to discourage this narcissistic buffoon from escalating further?
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
Think about all your muscles spazzing out non stop contracting. It's used to kill insects. A painful and horrible way to die.
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