NieR: Automata Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter BRSxIgnition
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Pods are the analytical ones and they placed them together for a reason and separated from A2. At the end of the day death of 2B was the real trigger to 9S'mental descent and seeing her alive and calling him Nines could make a difference. But I agree that it probably won't be as easy they'll need to talk about a lot of things.
9S already hesitated during A2 fight when she "revealed" the truth about 2E (see: flashbacks). So without the logic virus, he'd probably be more reasonable in his actions. And ending D monolog straight up shows that he knew the truth about 2B at least from the prolog as his last "evacuated" memories got phrases from it.
It is amazing indeed. The arrangement is so powerful and by the end of the track, it sounds really uplifting, cheering you to beat final "bosses" and achieve that goddamn ending that characters deserve.
GreenMakoEyes
Member
totally agree here, very powerful and emotional OST. Absolutely love "Sound of the End".
Someone found a way to get the hair dyes to work. Now I can be Red head 2B awyiss.
A lot of The Tower reminded me of the Cathedral from Drakengard 3's A branch. The room where you fight the 2B copies even has some slight similarities to the boss room. I thought it was interesting. Even though it wasn't that important given what immediately followed that.
I'm really happy I watched that Okabe video before playing the game, where he says there's a certain song with a choir, where the voices are actually from the devs. You see their names in the song part of the credits, but I'm not sure I would instantly make that connection without having watched that video.
They should've gone all out and have the team saying "Thank you for playing" in video form at the end, instead of just the pods.
I'm really happy I watched that Okabe video before playing the game, where he says there's a certain song with a choir, where the voices are actually from the devs. You see their names in the song part of the credits, but I'm not sure I would instantly make that connection without having watched that video.
They should've gone all out and have the team saying "Thank you for playing" in video form at the end, instead of just the pods.
Of course, and I shall fight everyone, including P5 owners, to the death and make them see the light lol
Mr. Smiley
Member
It was always gonna be Nier vs Persona for OST of the year.
SuperGiant's new game is also supposed to be released this year, tho it's probably not gonna snag it away from those two
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I bought the Japanese collectors edition of p5 specifically to get the soundtrack, and was 100% sure nothing was going to beat it this year.
Guess you shouldn't make declarations that early.
Guess you shouldn't make declarations that early.
I'm actually scared of starting Persona 5, now.
Thinking of just skipping today and playing nothing, and starting it tomorrow. I've been waiting for so long, and the Persona series is so special to me, I don't want to ruin the first couple of days playing the game by thinking about Nier all the time.
Thinking of just skipping today and playing nothing, and starting it tomorrow. I've been waiting for so long, and the Persona series is so special to me, I don't want to ruin the first couple of days playing the game by thinking about Nier all the time.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
P5 is fantastic and I'm enjoying it a lot.
But.
Coming from nier makes me have a sort of expectation that is probably unfair to it.
Heh that's cute, you think you're gonna forget about Nier after just one day.
I beat it around late March, and it's still heavily on my mind lol
30+ hours in so far, loving the fuck out of it as my first Persona game, but one thing I've noticed is that it is pretty heavy-handed regarding its themes. Like I get it, shitty adults are the worst, we must rebel against society, etc. Perfect example is when your team scolds and criticizes the bosses they have you beat, it borders on being cringeworthy. It's hard not to compare and contrast it to Nier, where while it does have a few moments where the theme is pretty obvious, as we all know due to how long the spoiler thread is, it can be incredibly subtle and thought-provoking as well. So far it just feels far more... mature I guess.
Though I guess it's fitting since between the two games, one has you playing as a kid in high school, so it isn't all that surprising that its themes can often be a bit too on the nose, but meh, just my thoughts so far regarding the themes.
OST, Nier wins, though P5's is admittedly more catchy overall.
Regarding the story, well, I have to finish P5 first lol, but I'm intrigued by where it's heading.
Cast... Err, lemme be fair and meet everyone first.
I think when all is said and done I predict I'll stick to my original summary:
Persona 5: Better game (Can't lie, shit is polished af, have to give it props, regardless of Nier's budget)
NieR: Automata: Better experience (It's really hard to see anything topping Ending E and the context that led to it, I just can't.)
Anyways, it's a fun rivalry going on in my head, that's for sure.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
That's the thing though, should i judge persona 5 on its heavy handedness because that is what is trying to accomplish? Probably not, but coming from nier i wish persona let its message breath more instead of ramming it down our throats, but that's coming from nier which is masterfully done in how much breath it gives to its themes.
I don't think it's that unfair. Of course, I wouldn't expect it to hit the same emotional notes or approach the same themes, I'm very open minded about that, but I expect nothing less than a meaningful experience from Persona. One I'll think about for years to come.
Even before playing Nier, that's what I expected because of my experience with the series.
And, even if, in the end, I think it's not as good as Automata, that doesn't mean it's bad by any stretch of the imagination, it could still be one of the best games ever made. I'm more worried about not giving it enough attention, not allowing myself to be fully captured by the game and buy its premise because I'm still thinking about Automata.
The themes are so powerful and well developed, but even on the surface, there's so much to think about on what it means to the franchise's universe, where it could go from here, how it relates to previous entries, that this could definitely distract me.
I'll read and try to discuss a lot during the day, to see if that satisfies me and allows me to embrace Persona 5.
Radical Edward
Member
Personally , i disagree about P5 being more polished/better game. I'm about as far as you and P5 is constantly wasting my time, is far too heavy handed in everything it does, has poor/janky controls (walking, stealth, etc.) and has been 80% Visual novel. Most of the choices you make in conversation have no major impact and there is little to explore in its lifeless cities and dungeons. Dungeons are hideous to look at and the soundtrack needs way more tracks . Despite all this it will probably end up in my top 5 this year, if i finish it.
I respect your opinion, though, and i'm glad you are enjoying it more than me. Sorry for getting off topic.
Oh yeah, I don't expect to forget it at all, I don't want to forget it. It's more just be able to think about anything else at any moment of the day.
I'm surprised I didn't dream about the game, though I did have one weird ass dream this night, so it could very well be influenced by it.
About how heavy-handed Persona can be, this is definitely by design and will surely be subverted at some point. I didn't play the game yet, but Hashino said in past interviews that it's deliberately made from their naive world view, and that he hopes that the players will start to question that along with the characters as the story progresses.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
Agreed, however its still a fantastic soundtrack and one of the best ever. P4G and Nier Automata are just that amazing
Persona has always been about the characters to me, and P5 has beena nice slow burn, but I'm getting into september now and I've really started to love a chunk of the cast. It hasnt touched P4 yet, but with the increased party interactions and the fantastic gameplay and dungeon design the game has still been an absolute joy to play.
Nier Automata though also has phenomenal gameplay, great characters, and is an all around joy to play. Two of the greatest games I've ever played, released within a month of each other.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Still think P3's OST is better than P4.
Nah, what you've said is more than fair. If anything, I'm not exactly bothered by someone saying they think Nier is better lol. It was an early non-detailed prediction anyways, and honestly, to sum it up like that isn't really fair to either of these lengthy, great games.
I was just trying to be impartial. Like regarding the combat, Nier has issues regarding the difficulty balance, which gets further exacerbated through the use of OP chips like Overclock. And 9S's hacking, as much as I genuinely liked it, they did admittedly make you do that for far too long.
Whereas P5, while it is turn-based, they got multiple things going on that helps to "modernize" it and make it as pleasant an experience as possible. Being able to ambush enemies, All-Out Attacks, speed through a battle through "Rush", etc. It does a good job of streamlining a genre that I'm rarely interested in these days outside of like Pokemon. So I give it props on that, even though I'm far more engaged with Automata's combat.
As for the dungeons, actually that reminds me. Route B is divisive due to people just inherently just disliking having to repeat things, but damn, the (first 3) dungeons in P5 are long as fuck, especially the first one due to how weak you are. And I bet the future ones won't be much more pleasant. At first I was thinking that's on me for normally trying to do it in one go, but nah, they really are long...
But yea, I don't want to harp too much before finishing, so we can leave it at that lol
That's good to hear. I think I'm already starting to see hints of that actually.
If I have both games, why not compare them? I know they're both great, but it's nice to discuss what one game did well, what one game did poorly. This GOTY list ain't gonna write itself ya know...
ShadowSoldier89
Member
The only reason I have to compare them is which game do I put at number 1 in my GOTY voting list.
I will not bother to compare the combat though, thats pointless. Persona 5 wins by default since its a turn based game. Nier Automata is the greatest action RPG combat I've ever played and its not even close, but its a genre I don't enjoy as much so it would lose by default.
(still a requirement to actually be good turn based combat to win by default. Looking at you Hyperdimension Neptunia)
I will not bother to compare the combat though, thats pointless. Persona 5 wins by default since its a turn based game. Nier Automata is the greatest action RPG combat I've ever played and its not even close, but its a genre I don't enjoy as much so it would lose by default.
(still a requirement to actually be good turn based combat to win by default. Looking at you Hyperdimension Neptunia)
I'm thinking the opposite about gameplay lol.
At least in nier I'm not getting game overs from poor rng critical elemental weakness targeting lol.
I'm actually impressed with how little camera was an issue here. Feels like platinum stuff typically has mediocre camera work.
I love to replay games, so route B not only didn't bother me, but I was surprised at how much new content there was, considering the complaints.
Another thing that caught me by surprise was how referenced the first game was.
EDIT: Decided to spoiler tag everything just in case, but I honestly think it's impossible to fully discuss this game's lore while caring for people who didn't play the first yet. It's like discussing Dark Souls III without wanting to spoil what happens in the first game.
Another thing that caught me by surprise was how referenced the first game was.
I was expecting us to have to read between the lines and know a lot about every side-material in the series, but a lot of it is very direct, to the point where I'll have to tell people to play the first game before Automata if they have any interest in it, just because of how much would be spoiled otherwise.
I mean, it is a sequel, but I expected it to be less direct with how much they kept saying you don't need to play the first. And it's true, you don't need to, but you probably should. Not just because it's great, but to make Automata better.
It was also true when Yoko said that players who played the previous game might be even more confused, like for example the very obvious "shouldn't humans be dead by now?", but that only makes the reveal even more impactful. For people starting with this one, it'll probably be just a plot twist, and of course touching on themes of religion and the existencialism that permeates the entire work, but for people invested in the franchise, it even works on a meta level. With Grimoire Nier and then subsequent interviews and material for this game insisting that humans are alive and well on the moon, even though the game makes you suspicious of it very early, we still went through the same as the androids did in that universe.
People picked up on what was going on and what our actions in the first game would mean for the state of the world, even if it wasn't a major plot point for the story itself, but then Project YoRHa, starting back with Grimoire Nier, managed to fool us into accepting this lie, and us buying into the idea was fundamental for it to work on any level. If we still kept insisting there was no way humans were alive even before playing the game, the reveal would just be "duh, obviously".
I mean, it is a sequel, but I expected it to be less direct with how much they kept saying you don't need to play the first. And it's true, you don't need to, but you probably should. Not just because it's great, but to make Automata better.
It was also true when Yoko said that players who played the previous game might be even more confused, like for example the very obvious "shouldn't humans be dead by now?", but that only makes the reveal even more impactful. For people starting with this one, it'll probably be just a plot twist, and of course touching on themes of religion and the existencialism that permeates the entire work, but for people invested in the franchise, it even works on a meta level. With Grimoire Nier and then subsequent interviews and material for this game insisting that humans are alive and well on the moon, even though the game makes you suspicious of it very early, we still went through the same as the androids did in that universe.
People picked up on what was going on and what our actions in the first game would mean for the state of the world, even if it wasn't a major plot point for the story itself, but then Project YoRHa, starting back with Grimoire Nier, managed to fool us into accepting this lie, and us buying into the idea was fundamental for it to work on any level. If we still kept insisting there was no way humans were alive even before playing the game, the reveal would just be "duh, obviously".
EDIT: Decided to spoiler tag everything just in case, but I honestly think it's impossible to fully discuss this game's lore while caring for people who didn't play the first yet. It's like discussing Dark Souls III without wanting to spoil what happens in the first game.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
If you love to replay games be sure to replay route A again with everything you've learned.
You'll be surprised at how much it adds to A.
You'll be surprised at how much it adds to A.
I can imagine. Just Anemone's first dialogue during route B was already
I thought about uninstalling the game after getting ending E last night, but I'll probably replay it sooner than I expect, so I kept it installed, haha.
Surprised at how little achivements I ended up buying. And surprised the one for looking at 2B's ass was among them. I thought I'd get it playing normally just because of the amount of times I was looking up because the lighting was beautiful or I was looking at some detail in the environment and 2B thought I was looking at her ass and pushed the camera.
I don't really get why some people are upset over that trophy. It was a hilarious way to "judge" those who would purposely try to look under her skirt (Because they know damn well people would), or introduce the amusing scenario where those who want the Platinum have to briefly become a pervert (Unless you buy it) in order to get it.
It's ironic to see people complaining about absolutely having to do something for a trophy when it's a game that tackles the meaning of our existence and our actions as constantly as this one.
On the other hand, it'll probably feel quite special for people who think that way if the game convinces them to let go of their save file, just to help someone to shoot at a credits sequence.
I finished the game at 80 hours, and "throwing that away" felt much more meaningful and rewarding than my 100% sidequest and weapon story completion or whatever.
I'm still bummed I finished it with 98% of the archives, though, and I have no idea what could possibly be the remaining 2%. I'll just read everything on a wiki to see if I missed anything important. I'm pretty sure I got all of the major ones.
And also surprised they didn't fix that fuck up in the localized version of the Black Box archive yet. It was so weird how 9S didn't have anything to say about that major revelation, but it made sense later.
Radical Edward
Member
Yeah, she even swats the camera away and it's optional with the Strange trophy vendor anyway
The funny thing about separating A2 from the pair is that if 9S has any chill at all, he'd realize it's way easier to forgive and forget with A2 than B2. Especially if ending E was preceded by ending C. I'm sure 9S knows damn well by the point of their duel that A2 did not murder B2. He's just looking for an outlet for his grief and rage. B2's revival washes away a lot of the grief that he blamed on A2 before, and the issues that do stick around are all centered around B2.
killatopak
Member
Finished the game a long time ago but this is the first time I'm on the spoiler thread. Damn 50 pages to catch up to.
Listening to the jukebox while I'm backreading.
Listening to the jukebox while I'm backreading.
I mean if their memories were recorded to the point of the last fight(pods did say "all of their memories" so I assume that everything was logged) then 9S will still be in the same shit state(although pods suggested data overhaul which means they know how to fix mental disorders). Even his last moments in D were without anger but it is also debatable as he was dying.
I still think that with 2B alive and by his side he won't try anything stupid right away. He lost pretty much everything by the end of the game and still when telling A2 how they all were just sacrificial lambs he made a pretty soft accent on 2B.
A2 still killed 2B in his eyes and she never commented anything about it.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
its hard to imagine any bad blood sticking around with all 3 of them alive, plus the pods will straighten up any remaining misconceptions
shall I introduce you to the posts where we make things worse?
killatopak
Member
I'm already depressed as hell from the game but sure sign me up.
There aren't even any misconception left, 9S found out everything during the final fight, but he just wanted to end it all at that point. Beside, no way he's touching A2 under 2B's watch.
It just focuses on the empty village.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
then I present my own contributions
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233017955&postcount=3303
also Xander's view on the same thing in response to me
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233026065&postcount=3355
OniBarubary
Banned
Go for it, I'm always down for more reading and interpretations.
But then again I'm pretentious what do I know
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
9S will wake up in shock, start choking 2B in reenactment of the route A/B ending, then she'll touch his cheek and he'll stop. She'll say "This cannot continue." and then we will spend the next 20 years trying to decipher what she actually meant.
killatopak
Member
Thanks. Gonna start reading.
Edit: dammit pascal, you could have said that outside.
Sure! Always nice to have more views.
It just means they're making white and long haired kids with no genitals.
Here it goes. Most of them are 2Bx9S related but still:
I think that we should compile some categorized lists into this threads op so it easier for newcomers to catch without reading over 100 pages.
- https://www.reddit.com/r/nier/comments/620bnq/so_how_far_in_the_minority_am_i/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/nier/comments/64stqe/nier_automata_a_love_story_is_a_video_about_the/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/nier/comments/634ktv/analysis_on_the_wandering_couple_and_why_its/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/nier/comments/634ktv/analysis_on_the_wandering_couple_and_why_its/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/nier/comments/63rv1z/spoilers_i_wanna_talk_about_9s/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/nier/comments/63pndj/spoilersjapanese_vs_english_changes_the/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/nier/comments/63pj4u/spoilers_her_dress_his_and_relationship_theory/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/nier/comments/63i20o/2b_x_9s_consensus/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/nier/comments/63hgzk/id_like_to_pick_your_brains_about_a_few_plot/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/nier/comments/632l9h/my_thoughts_on_the_game_and_subtitles/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/nier/comments/62fkee/regarding_the_during_the_second_playthrough/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/nier/comments/62d4j5/my_theory_on_9s_and_his_memories_spoilers_for/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/nier/comments/64rrvw/clues_towards_9s_knowing_spoilers/
I think that we should compile some categorized lists into this threads op so it easier for newcomers to catch without reading over 100 pages.