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[Deleted member 231381]

Are there any explain like I'm five style videos or articles floating about to explain who Corbyn is and why he's hated across Britain? I've heard everything from "he's spineless" to "he's British Bernie Sanders" to "he's a guy who just wasn't given a fair shake".

If you wanted to do it well, it'd take quite a while, because the fairest way of summing Corbyn up is to say he's an anachronism. He belongs to a strand of the Labour Party that really went extinct over the course of the '80s and early '90s. To explain that better, you'd need to go back to the '70s, look at TUC politics and their role in selecting Labour politicians, how Labour politicians starting with Kinnock exerted more control over the party, and how Corbyn is kind of a remnant of a bygone time.

He's not the British Sanders. Only an American with relatively poor understanding of British politics would make that comparison. I don't think Corbyn has a direct analogue in America, because trade unions were always weaker in the States and never exerted the kind of influence they did at one time in the UK.

Politically, he's quite similar to Melenchon if you follow French politics, only not at all as charismatic. Melenchon also has the advantage of running in a presidential system, whereas the UK is parliamentary and Corbyn has to act as leader of the Labour Party, about 93% of which have opinions ranging from hatred to mild dislike.

 

[Charles Brandon]

I'm hoping as many people who want an open tolerant britain vote as possible.

Hopefully all those tory voters who are so sure of a majority will not vote.

The problem is that people are jaded, this is the third major vote in three years (or fourth if you're a Scot), the outcome is not in doubt and if you are opposed to the Tories you get to choose between parties lead by a no-hoper and a non-entity.

 

[Stead Fast]

Has labour have a chance? Never say never anyway.

While you are totally right in 'never say never', this being a turnaround result for Corbyn would be, in my opinion and many others who follow UK politics, both unprecedented and, in a sense, utterly undeserving (of the man himself, not undeserving of the British public).

 

[Moze]

He most certainly fucking didn't try.

Tell that to all the vulnerable people he has been defending and speaking up for since he became leader.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Basically Corbyn is an actual socialist who has been worryingly close to certain unsavory anti-West types in the past, and also has as much idea about running a political party as a chicken does flying a moon lander.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Tell that to all the vulnerable people he has been defending and speaking up for since he became leader.

I'm sure those people are delighted about the prospect of the looming Tory landslide fashioned entire by the bungling escapades and political irrelevance of Mr J B Corbyn Esq.

How many of those people has he actually helped with his prehistoric dogmatism? Fuck all.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Tell that to all the vulnerable people he has been defending and speaking up for since he became leader.

Great job he's done too, handing over an enormous majority to the people who are fisting them. Corbyn and the anti-semitic nutters he's brought in need defenestrated immediately.

 

[Audioboxer]

Tell that to all the vulnerable people he has been defending and speaking up for since he became leader.

He's a principled man, but he's not a leader. As I say over and over he's better as a "number 2" or just an MP fighting underneath a leader. One of the best things for the SNP was getting Alex Salmond put back down to an MP. For Labour it would be getting Corbyn put back down.

 

[octopiggy]

Surely this will be the last roll of the dice for Corbyn?

 

[Ryuuroden]

Honestly, I am no expert and I am not British, my main source of British political knowledge is I listen to BBC news all the time. Based on this I will just throw out my own silly prediction.

Labour voters will either switch to Tory cause "reasons" (inc. Corbyn is awful) remaining will stick with Labour or go Lib Dem and all of Scotland will go SNP. The Conservatives will gain some additional power due to this and all the lefter parties will weaken due to Labours decline and other left parties slight gain cause they all don't get along. The main gist is Labour will suffer a ton of loses while all other gain and Tories rule over them all.

 

[Charles Brandon]

He's a principled man, but he's not a leader. As I say over and over he's better as a "number 2" or just an MP fighting underneath a leader. One of the best things for the SNP was getting Alex Salmond put back down to an MP. For Labour it would be getting Corbyn put back down.

I'd settle for just "put down". With extreme prejudice.

 

[weekev]

Has labour have a chance? Never say never anyway.

They would need to pull together a helluva manifesto, communicate it clearly and mobilise apathetic voters. It would be an extraordinary effort and as optimistic as I am Im gonna call this one and say Tories will increase their majority significantly and labour will be forced into another leadership change.

 

[Screaming Meat]

shambles
ˈʃamb(&#601lz/
noun
1.
informal
a state of total disorder.
"my career was in a shambles"
synonyms: chaos, mess, muddle, confusion, disorder, disarray, disorganization, havoc, mare's nest

Also an archaic term for a slaughterhouse.

 

[Audioboxer]

I'd settle for just "put down". With extreme prejudice.

Cmon, out of many of the cretins that are in our political system he's not as sinister or dangerous as some. He's just not a leader, which is suicidal for a party, sure, but it doesn't make him some piece of shit like Jeremy Hunt.

He needs to be dethroned, not destroyed. Where he's not helping himself is insisting on staying on when it's not working. Like Salmond he should have stepped down long before he ends up getting "forcibly" ousted.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Cmon, out of many of the cretins that are in our political system he's not as sinister or dangerous as some. He's just not a leader, which is suicidal for a party, sure, but it doesn't make him some piece of shit like Jeremy Hunt.

He needs to be dethroned, not destroyed.

IRA
Syria
Hamas
Jew haters
Marxists
Trots

He's as sinister as they come.

 

[Principate]

The dude refused to say if we step down if he lost a general election refused to step down after the a large portion of the cabinet he chose gave him a vote of no confidence. I'm not seeing where his great principles lie.

He's the leader of the opposition but has no intention of becoming Prime minister.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

FWIW Corbyn may not stand down if he loses, and another socialist will take his place if he does.

Labour is run by the hard left now. It's toast, and this could be its last election as a major political force.

The inmates run the asylum.

To get preachy, it is a straight fight between an extreme underdog (the Lib Dems) and the Tories. If the Lib Dems win, the country avoids leaving the single market and will attempt to rejoin the EU (or never leave?). If the Tories win, which is far more likely, the hard right of the Tory party will be emboldened. Plus there's the threat of the collapse of the union and a few other things.

Corbyn cannot win.

This is 1983 without the Falklands War.

 

[Pandy]

I'm sure those people are delighted about the prospect of the looming Tory landslide fashioned entire by the bungling escapades and political irrelevance of Mr J B Corbyn Esq.

How many of those people has he actually helped with his prehistoric dogmatism? Fuck all.

Corbyn is a symptom of the Labour party collapse, not the cause.

 

[autumnleaf]

Surely this will be the last roll of the dice for Corbyn?

Labour will get destroyed then Corbyrn will say this came too soon and he'll be ready for 2022. Like a turd that doesn't flush.

 

[HaloRose]

They would need to pull together a helluva manifesto, communicate it clearly and mobilise apathetic voters. It would be an extraordinary effort and as optimistic as I am Im gonna call this one and say Tories will increase their majority significantly and labour will be forced into another leadership change.

Hope they get right leader this time i'm hoping for dan jarvis like last time i don't think he will take it.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

They would need to pull together a helluva manifesto, communicate it clearly and mobilise apathetic voters. It would be an extraordinary effort and as optimistic as I am Im gonna call this one and say Tories will increase their majority significantly and labour will be forced into another leadership change.

And the most reliable voting bloc in the country leans Conservative, and will be energised to ensure Brexit happens.

 

[Faddy]

He's a principled man, but he's not a leader. As I say over and over he's better as a "number 2" or just an MP fighting underneath a leader. One of the best things for the SNP was getting Alex Salmond put back down to an MP. For Labour it would be getting Corbyn put back down.

Alex Salmond's charismatic leadership took the SNP from the political sidelines to government in Holyrood and domination of Scottish seats at Westminster.

The first election win in Scotland the ballot literally said SNP - Alex Salmond for First Minister.

Corbyn wishes he had the appeal of Salmond.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Really hope SNP pulls similar gains to last time, lord knows things are tense up here regards indy2 :/

 

[Maledict]

Hope they get right leader this time i'm hoping for dan jarvis like last time i don't think he will take it.

Dan Jarvis is the sort of leader who looks amazing on paper - but have you heard him speak? He makes dry toast look interesting.

 

[Baleoce]

The TV debates are a load of inane drivel anyway. It just makes it into a personality contest.

 

[toythatkills]

...this could be its last election as a major political force.

I suspect that ship sailed a few years ago.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

The only reason to be sad about the lack of debates is the lack of a corresponding GAF thread

 

[Principate]

Corbyn is a symptom of the Labour party collapse, not the cause.

I don't know about that. While surely Labour wouldn't be in a great position another ed or milliband like character wouldn't have needed to fed over off a vote of no confidence and subsequent leadership challenge because they refused to step down destroying the credibility of the party.

You know why the leadership challenge happened? For this exact reason, they feared a Tory snap election which they got and didn't want Corbyn in charge based on the high chances he'd deliver massive losses.

 

[Audioboxer]

IRA
Syria
Hamas
Jew haters
Marxists
Trots

He's as sinister as they come.

You might need to elaborate on some of those points for me.

Alex Salmond's charismatic leadership took the SNP from the political sidelines to government in Holyrood and domination of Scottish seats at Westminster.

The first election win in Scotland the ballot literally said SNP - Alex Salmond for First Minister.

Corbyn wishes he had the appeal of Salmond.

Salmond was like a bull in a China shop, though. He did fairly well to get the indyref vote to 45% given the pelters he took and a lot of people not liking him. His aggression and arrogance are best served in small bouts when he can be let off his leash for a good cause. Sturgeon is far more rounded and able to be diplomatic, so a better leader. She exudes more compassion which is crucial to winning some hearts and minds.

Put it this way, far more people in England like Sturgeon over Salmond (let alone Scotland, but England is the most hostile to the SNP).

Maybe Labour do need their Salmond to boost the party, but I still think that would be a short-term fix. It might well be needed, though.

 

[HaloRose]

Dan Jarvis is the sort of leader who looks amazing on paper - but have you heard him speak? He makes dry toast look interesting.

Who going take the leadership then i can't think of anyone else.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

I suspect that ship sailed a few years ago.

It did really. That ship really sank with the Edstone.

I will be interested to know if Labour stand as pro- or anti- Single Market.

If they stand as anti-, there is a real chance that they get whacked in London.

 

[Uzzy]

Dan Jarvis is the sort of leader who looks amazing on paper - but have you heard him speak? He makes dry toast look interesting.

Still looking for that amazing leader who'll step forwards and save Labour. Last time we got such great figures like Angela Eagle and Owen Smith, who managed to suggest that we should negotiate with ISIS.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Really hope SNP pulls similar gains to last time, lord knows things are tense up here regards indy2 :/

Well technically you'd want a hold more than gains, unless you mean in terms of sheer voter count. In which case I kinda agree - Sturgeon is more of a tangible opposition figure to May in terms of personality, and having the affirmed mandate of Scotland behind her would be useful in rebuffing May's drive to gloss over the divisions the referendum created.

 

[Mr. Sam]

IRA
Syria
Hamas
Jew haters
Marxists
Trots

He's as sinister as they come.

You've got him bang to rights on most counts - I'm just wondering what "Syria" by itself is supposed to mean.

 

[RulkezX]

Getting rid of Corbyn won't solve the Labour parties woes.

Do you really think those momentum types that saw him through 3 leadership battles will just get beck in their box ?

 

[kmag]

I wish all networks would just empty chair any 'leader' who fails to turn up to a debate. They lacked the balls to do so last time, and there's no danger they'll do so now. Simply empty chair, and put the question to the empty chair and show the silence.

No politician should have anything to fear from having to debate their position.

 

[JonathanEx]

The only reason to be sad about the lack of debates is the lack of a corresponding GAF thread

I'm sure there'll be awful question time specials of a different form, or something.

I'm also going fingers crossed that Channel 4 have enough time to throw Hamilton and Jenkins some money for an emergency series of Ballot Monkeys, it was written last minute anyway

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

You've got him bang to rights on most counts - I'm just wondering what "Syria" by itself is supposed to mean.

He's been off to meet Assad before and refuses to condemn the russians, who fund his campaign group. I suppose you can stick Iran in there too.

 

[Ragnar Blackmane]

May: Now is not the time for a second independence referendum, those things have to come later in a few years when Brexit is done, we have to stay united and focus on Brexit negotiations instead of creating turmoil!

About two weeks later

May: Let's gonna do a snap general election out of nowhere in two months now that the Brexit negotiations have started, it's the time for that, yaaaaaaaay!

Bloody hypocrite.

 

[Principate]

Getting rid of Corbyn won't solve the Labour parties woes.

Do you really think those momentum types that saw him through 3 leadership battles will just get beck in their box ?

I honestly wouldn't mind a Corbyn type if they were competent. The problem is Corbyn is not competent does not want to leave an doesn't even want to win. He's party decay embodied in human form. Regardless of what party he was running they'd face the same problem.

 

[Condom]

IRA
Syria
Hamas
Jew haters
Marxists
Trots

He's as sinister as they come.

luckily there is the perfect party for you called the lib-dems, get a reality check and stop 'liberalizing' social democrats even further (talking about sinister)

 

[Uzzy]

The only reason to be sad about the lack of debates is the lack of a corresponding GAF thread

Drinking games too. We could have a shot every time May says 'The country is coming together'

 

[Faddy]

You might need to elaborate on some of those points for me.



Salmond was like a bull in a China shop, though. He did fairly well to get the indyref vote to 45% given the pelters he took and a lot of people not liking him. His aggression and arrogance are best served in small bouts when he can be let off his leash for a good cause. Sturgeon is far more rounded and able to be diplomatic, so a better leader. She exudes more compassion which is crucial to winning some hearts and minds.

Put it this way, far more people in England like Sturgeon over Salmond (let alone Scotland, but England is the most hostile to the SNP).

Salmond was a bull in the china shop of Scottish Labour's hopes and dreams.

And every bit as popular as Nicola Sturgeon when he stepped down

Meanwhile the current First Minister Alex Salmond and his deputy Nicola Sturgeon (who is soon to become First Minister) both have significantly higher approval ratings with two-thirds (both 65%) of Scots telling us that both of them are doing a good job.

https://www.ipsos-mori.com/research...470/UK-Party-leaders-suffer-ratings-blow.aspx

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

luckily there is the perfect party for you called the lib-dems, get a reality check and stop 'liberalizing' social democrats even further (talking about sinister)

I'm a former labour exec officer. I'm as Labour as they come, it's the johnny come lately nutters who need to fuck off back to the Lib dems, SWP, TUSC and greens.

 

[kmag]

Getting rid of Corbyn won't solve the Labour parties woes.

Do you really think those momentum types that saw him through 3 leadership battles will just get beck in their box ?

The problem Labour has is that there's now no natural coalition between the metropolitan base and the working class base. There hasn't been for a while, mutual hatred of the Tories only goes so far, and New Labour's success in defining a route which brought the soft surburban floating voter (aka a soft centrist tory) simply broke down the basic Labour coalition quicker.

 

[Mr. Sam]

Getting rid of Corbyn won't solve the Labour parties woes.

Do you really think those momentum types that saw him through 3 leadership battles will just get beck in their box ?

I've a friend who's deeply ingrained in the Labour Party who's despairing today because he genuinely believed that Corbyn could be removed and the hard left elements could be pacified by 2020 and replaced by a Labour that wouldn't necessarily win but wouldn't get obliterated - and this has entirely scuppered that hope.

 

[Valhelm]

You've got him bang to rights on most counts - I'm just wondering what "Syria" by itself is supposed to mean.

Not desiring the absolute destruction of that country by NATO bombing campaigns is bad now

 

[Condom]

I'm a former labour exec officer. I'm as Labour as they come, it's the johnny come lately nutters who need to fuck off back to the Lib dems, SWP, TUSC and greens.

Right. And Dijsselbloem is a current Dutch Labour minister. Doesn't make him less of a traitor to social democracy (in the simplest Wikipedia definition of the word).

The problem with Corbyn is that he doesn't perform, goodwill only gets you so far.

 

[Moze]

He's a principled man, but he's not a leader. As I say over and over he's better as a "number 2" or just an MP fighting underneath a leader. One of the best things for the SNP was getting Alex Salmond put back down to an MP. For Labour it would be getting Corbyn put back down.

I don't disagree. He isn't unlikeable but he is very timid and often finds it hard to speak when put on the spot.

I am still not quite sure I understand the strong dislike for him. It all seems rather personal when I see people talk about him.

 

[kmag]

I've a friend who's deeply ingrained in the Labour Party who's despairing today because he genuinely believed that Corbyn could be removed and the hard left elements could be pacified by 2020 and replaced by a Labour that wouldn't necessarily win but wouldn't get obliterated - and this has entirely scuppered that hope.

Similar sentiments in Scottish Labour atm. Corbyn doesn't even really appeal to the ex-Labour voting Lanarkshire voters up here.