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[Huw_Dawson]

1) There is a progressive alliance - it's called the Labour Party.

I can't respond politely to this so I can only really say that I disagree with you in the BROADEST sense.

Socialism is not progressivism.

Lib Dems have come out this morning and said they will support brexit, haven't they?

Wait for our manifesto for what exactly we are calling our position, but we are clearly against leaving the single market.

 

[kmag]

The Tory party isn't going to elect more moderates. It's been quite clear since the Brexit vote that the vast majority of the party has gone on full.hard Brexit mode - and the MPs have always been more moderate than the base that will be selecting the potential MPs for this election.

May will have *more* lunatics, not less. But it does mean she won't have to balance the two - the moderates can be safely ignored now. Remember, her aim isn't about getting the best deal, it's about getting good headlines and press and being in power.

Remember as well May is 60 with some health issues. Which while not old, is probably putting her in the position of not necessarily worrying about having to fight another GE as PM in 2022, she may just deliver Brexit and then vacate. Some Tory MP's have long said she'd just be a transitional PM.

 

[Doc_Drop]

Guys, let's be real - Tim Farron is leader of a "major" party because he was one of seven people in a room who weren't Nick Clegg (and even then, serious consideration was given to Nick Clegg). He's not Barack Obama and if it weren't for Brexit we'd be taking odds on the Liberal Democrats disappearing entirely.



Between the Tories and... the DUP?

The reason a progressive alliance can't work is fourfold:

1) There is a progressive alliance - it's called the Labour Party.
2) Nobody trusts the Lib Dems, and they will run candidates against you in seats you could win and then complain when you do the same.
3) The Greens have one seat. This could jump up to two or reduce to zero.
4) Leftists don't like each other and will fight like a bag of cats at the slightest provocation.

The reason a right wing alliance can't work:

1) There is one - it's called the Conservative Party and it just ate UKIP.

Talking some sense, showing that UK politics is in a state of absolute shite and has been almost my entire life, and likely well before.
The only silver lining I can take from this is at least the winning Tory government will have to own the resultant fallout of the Brexit. The problem is the harm inflicted during their next tenure

 

[kmag]

I can't respond politely to this so I can only really say that I disagree with you in the BROADEST sense.

Socialism is not progressivism.

You want me to list the non progressive stuff your lot voted in between 2010-2015?

Socialism isn't progressive, but the Lib Dem's don't have a stellar track record of progressivism either. They like to talk the talk but failed to walk the walk.

 

[toythatkills]

Goodbye Corbyn, he tried but Labour was beyond salvation.

Did he?

 

[Roberto Larcos]

Lib Dems have come out this morning and said they will support brexit, haven't they?

Sure, but they'd call a referendum on the terms. At which point only the die-hards would still vote leave. After which, they'd repeal Article 50.

This is easily transparent enough for the EU to see.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Haha yep, five years of darkness. No hope for Corbyn/Farron to get their voice out to the public outside of through the filter of newspapers/tv

better than eight years of darkness

 

[Maledict]

The madwoman did it. Ugh. Despicable.

Goodbye Corbyn, he tried but Labour was beyond salvation.

I'm failing to see why this is the labour parties fault. As much as his core supporters would like to blame the infighting, the fact is he has failed utterly as a leader and has to take some of the blame for that. It's been 9 months since the leadship contest and their numbers continue to fall not rise.

People just don't want what he was selling.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Did he?

I hadn't noticed personally.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

You want me to list the non progressive stuff your lot voted in between 2010-2015.

Sure, but I'd rather see a list of the times Labour fell over and let the Tories win in the past two years, which I think is a tad more relevant.

Hell, I think Lib Dems in the coalition got a lot more progressive stuff done than Labour has in the past 7 years. Pupil premium? Gay marriage? Green Deal? Millions of poor people raised out of income tax?

Labour managed to lose the 2015 election and set us up for Brexit.

You might notice that we are now run by the guy who gave Clegg two out of ten for the Coalition. We're not the party of Clegg - Labour ARE the party of Corbyn.

 

[Baleoce]

Any chance Labour can have a snap leadership election before June 8th lol

 

[Uzzy]

The Tory party isn't going to elect more moderates. It's been quite clear since the Brexit vote that the vast majority of the party has gone on full.hard Brexit mode - and the MPs have always been more moderate than the base that will be selecting the potential MPs for this election.

May will have *more* lunatics, not less. But it does mean she won't have to balance the two - the moderates can be safely ignored now. Remember, her aim isn't about getting the best deal, it's about getting good headlines and press and being in power.

We just have to hope that the lunatics aren't too loony. I'm dreading hearing calls for deportations.

 

[StayDead]

No TV debates this time. https://t.co/b0ZWSnd85b

What?

This has to be illegal surely?

 

[firehawk12]

Wow, what a twist.

 

[Dougald]

What?

This has to be illegal surely?

Before 2010 there were never any TV debates. Frankly they've always been a bit too American for my taste

 

[Charles Brandon]

Did he?

No.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Lib Dems have come out this morning and said they will support brexit, haven't they?

Lib Dems have stated quite plainly for a while they want to be the party of Remain voters. As I've explained previously in this thread, they would likely loosen or soften their rhetoric so they frame it as getting a softer brexit if they have to, before then trying to rejoin the EU after.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I don't really mind no TV debates. Nobody could ever communicate much of value in them, they just gave a +2 bonus to the man with most presentable TV appearance.

 

[Charles Brandon]

One thing I'm almost certain of this time around however is that the voting turnout will be higher than normal.

It'll be low. Very low.

 

[twofoldd]

From the Bloomberg brexit email -

A larger majority would help May in several ways.

It would make it easier to pass legislation that would deliver a clean or "hard" Brexit by regaining control of borders and the budget, rather than safeguarding trade.

Tourists cross Westminster Bridge beside the Houses of Parliament in London, U.K., on Thursday, Dec. 29, 2016. Demand for luxury brands in the U.K. is flourishing, boosted by increased tourism and spending linked to the weaker pound.

"There was not a majority in the Commons or Lords for a hard Brexit," said Mujtaba Rahman of the Eurasia Group. "If, however, as we expect May secures a bigger majority, she will have a people's mandate for a hard Brexit."

At the same time, a larger majority would give her room to make concessions forced upon her by her EU counterparts and which the most vocal Brexit campaigners in her own party might not welcome.

"All else equal, that should lower the risk of a very disruptive Brexit as the government should be able to plot a less confrontational exit," said Mike Amey of Pacific Investment Management.

So it could be one thing. Or the opposite. Great.

 

[Mr. Sam]

The TV debates were Corbyn and Farron's best chance to make up ground and May was obviously aware of that. Expect to see some sort of rainbow debate between Labour, the Lib Dems, the Greens, UKIP and the SNP while Theresa May puts her feet up and has a cuppa and the nation turns over to World's Slowest Drying Paints on Dave.

 

[Audioboxer]

Before 2010 there were never any TV debates. Frankly they've always been a bit too American for my taste

A little bit, but debating on TV can weed out some of the careerists from those with some integrity/morals/backbone.

Otherwise, it's up to the British Newspapers to feed the public everything...........

Cameron was the same, chicken shit to show up for a debate.

 

[HazySaiyan]

No TV debates this time. https://t.co/b0ZWSnd85b

This is Theresa May all over really, complete lack of transparency and accountability.

I wonder if it's possible for the other parties to organise some sort of debate anyway? I'd love to see that, really hammer home that May is too much of a coward to show up. Almost certainly a pipe dream though...

 

[weekev]

One thing I'm almost certain of this time around however is that the voting turnout will be higher than normal.

Thats lovely wishful thinking. Unfortunately its also likely to not be true.

 

[nOoblet16]

Any chance Labour can have a snap leadership election before June 8th lol

No point really Corbyn will win again if that happens.

 

[Nothus]

Every time I see a pic of Theresa May I always think back to when Charlie Brooker likened her to a haunted art gallery owner and it cracks me up

 

[And_Gignac]

I'm failing to see why this is the labour parties fault. As much as his core supporters would like to blame the infighting, the fact is he has failed utterly as a leader and has to take some of the blame for that. It's been 9 months since the leadship contest and their numbers continue to fall not rise.

People just don't want what he was selling.

I am not putting the blame on Labour, though. Thing is, Corbyn or anyone else couldn't do anything regarding the bleeding in Scotland due to the SNP rise. They also had to deal with an ideological contradiction between parts of their alliance: white xenophobics (leave voters in rural areas) were part of their historical voting bloc, just like urban remain voters were. This is the inherent contradiction that has destroyed the soft left in many western countries. White working class + cosmopolitan class is a shaky alliance.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

This is Theresa May all over really, complete lack of transparency and accountability.

I wonder if it's possible for the other parties to organise some sort of debate anyway? I'd love to see that, really hammer home that May is too much of a coward to show up. Almost certainly a pipe dream though...

I think in that regard that would mean having to pay for it out of their own pockets.

 

[nOoblet16]

No TV debates this time. https://t.co/b0ZWSnd85b

How is it that she gets to decide even that?

 

[DECK'ARD]

Every time I see a pic of Theresa May I always think back to when Charlie Brooker likened her to a haunted art gallery owner and it cracks me up

Hah, that's made me laugh again.

 

[*Splinter]

Just saw this on /r/unitedkingdom:

How to vote to stop the Tories

Either I'm being especially thick today, or my local constituency isn't even on this list.

And given that it's been safely conservative since 1885 (with only 1 exception in 1923) I can see why they wouldn't bother to list us

 

[Dougald]

A little bit, but debating on TV can weed out some of the careerists from those with some integrity/morals/backbone.

I'm not really against them, but neither will I mourn their loss. People shouldn't decide their vote on who can come up with the snappiest retort

Otherwise, it's up to the British Newspapers to feed the public everything...........

Of course, when you put it that way...

 

[AHA-Lambda]

"This is it end of days!"

https://youtu.be/rTDWd9-zqzc

Jonathan Pie works fast!

 

[Goodlife]

How is it that she gets to decide even that?

I assume the others could get together and debate without her.

Dunno how they would play out though.... might just seem a bit stupid and make her look "above" all that shit?

 

[Moze]

Apparently Blair didn't even want to debate Major. There is no point when there is so much to lose.

 

[maximum360]

Theresa has form here too. Her response to calls for a second Scottish Independence referendum:

Unfortunately, Tories never seem to get punished for their brazen hypocrisy and desperate scrabbling to put party before country.

Sounds just like the Republicans in the USA. The Labor party sounds like our own weak sauce democrats.

 

[etrain911]

Are there any explain like I'm five style videos or articles floating about to explain who Corbyn is and why he's hated across Britain? I've heard everything from "he's spineless" to "he's British Bernie Sanders" to "he's a guy who just wasn't given a fair shake".

 

[Lagamorph]

I think in that regard that would mean having to pay for it out of their own pockets.

I bet one of the big broadcasters would be happy to pay for it themselves.

 

[Mr. Sam]

This is Theresa May all over really, complete lack of transparency and accountability.

I wonder if it's possible for the other parties to organise some sort of debate anyway? I'd love to see that, really hammer home that May is too much of a coward to show up. Almost certainly a pipe dream though...

They'll definitely do it - see my post above - but a debate between the two, or three, main party leaders has a much bigger impact than a debate between the remaining eight and an empty chair. Shrewd move.

 

[HazySaiyan]

I think in that regard that would mean having to pay for it out of their own pockets.

Oh I know it's not going to happen, I'd just love to see it is all

 

[Huw_Dawson]

How is it that she gets to decide even that?

She gets to say 'I will not appear on any debate' thus making the debates moot.

There can be an opposition debate, which would probably involve Farron and Sturgeon ripping large chunks out of Corbyn and Nuttall, but other than that excitement it will be straight fights on doorsteps.

Cleggmania 2 cannot be allowed, basically.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

I don't really mind no TV debates. Nobody could ever communicate much of value in them, they just gave a +2 bonus to the man with most presentable TV appearance.

I think Labour will probably be secretly pleased about it, as that sort of debate is not exactly Corbyn's natural habitat, as his performances in PMQs have shown.

 

[StayDead]

It'll be low. Very low.

I'm hoping as many people who want an open tolerant britain vote as possible.

Hopefully all those tory voters who are so sure of a majority will not vote.

 

[Audioboxer]

I'm not really against them, but neither will I mourn their loss. People shouldn't decide their vote on who can come up with the snappiest retort



Of course, when you put it that way...

Definitely not, which is what I take away from being "American", as you put it. All about cheers and jeers like it's a reality TV show. However, usually, British debates, while they can fall down to some of the ridiculous nonsense of American politics, can indeed have some good questions asked. When you have someone as "bad" at debating as May it's one silver lining for the country to have her wheeled out and make a mockery of herself and the party.

Which is exactly why the Tories are denying it from happening. Having May unable to answer questions and sound like she's reading from a teleprompter all while getting flustered/angry would be a PR nightmare.

In other news, on the main page of the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39630699

I bet those 536 comments are going to be civil. Lets get reading -_-

 

[DECK'ARD]

Are there any explain like I'm five style videos or articles floating about to explain who Corbyn is and why he's hated across Britain? I've heard everything from "he's spineless" to "he's British Bernie Sanders" to "he's a guy who just wasn't given a fair shake".

shambles
ˈʃamb(&#601lz/
noun
1.
informal
a state of total disorder.
"my career was in a shambles"
synonyms: chaos, mess, muddle, confusion, disorder, disarray, disorganization, havoc, mare's nest

 

[Par Score]

One thing I'm almost certain of this time around however is that the voting turnout will be higher than normal.

I'd actually expect it to be the lowest turnout since 2001. Maybe even lower than that.

Much like 2001 the result is a given, and forgone conclusions depress turnout.

Add in an incredible amount of election fatigue (GE2015, Scots Indy Ref, EU Ref, etc.) and a majority of voters not wanting another GE, I can see this dropping below 60% turnout.

What?

This has to be illegal surely?

We've only had 2 GEs with TV debates, out of the 25 or so GEs held since TV was invented.

TV debates are neither an expectation nor a requirement, and far from legally mandated.

 

[Mr. Sam]

The debates really were an outcome of the 2010 election, when Brown was looking for a Hail Mary, Cameron was looking to prove his suaveness on TV and Clegg had nothing to lose. Otherwise there's very little for an incumbent, particularly a relatively popular one, to gain.

 

[SoCoRoBo]

The madwoman did it. Ugh. Despicable.

Goodbye Corbyn, he tried but Labour was beyond salvation.

He most certainly fucking didn't try.

 

[HaloRose]

Has labour have a chance? Never say never anyway.

 

[nOoblet16]

I assume the others could get together and debate without her.

Dunno how they would play out though.... might just seem a bit stupid and make her look "above" all that shit?

It would also make her look bad and unapproachable...which is bad for her.