To be fair they're both the same
Both sides and all
Also it's almost heartwarming to see both the left and the right endorsing Macron just to keep LePen out.
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|OT| French Presidential Elect 2017 - La France est toujours insoumise; Le Pen loses
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To be fair they're both the same
Both sides and all
Also it's almost heartwarming to see both the left and the right endorsing Macron just to keep LePen out.
The Jean François Copé story.
There's something nostalgic about Copé and Bayrou arguing on TV.
Typical from the left
Alx
Member
I thought the anti-Le Pen demonstrations of 2002 were already objectable (why demonstrate ? just vote...), but this one is completely silly. "I like neither", so what ? What do you expect your demonstration to achieve, cancel the whole elections ?
Fixed.
He is seen as left-wing socially and econimically right-wing in France.
She did 17% in 2012, not 10%.
This thread is one of the weirdest I've ever read on Gaf. To put Macron and LePen even on the same level is crazy to me.
You're FAR mmore likely to get banned for not explaining your opinion and whining about the moderation than you are for expressing it. I doubt you're stupid enough to admit you like the fact that she's racist, so what do you have to lose?
As it stands, so far you entire post history is supporting a racist, not explaining why, bitching about moderation. I mean, good luck with this approach. Hope it was worth the wait. Maybe som of your other burnewr accounts are still valid?
chromatic9
Member
The other voters who had their candidate lose in the first round will mostly vote for Macron in the second unless Le Pen manages to hypnotize everyone and hell freezes over.
So where does all this "He wants to destroy the welfare state" stuff from when he is left-wing socially?
She was at 17.90% the last time, isn't she? And she's now at 21.8%, not 26%.
10 ? 26 ? Where are you pulling these numbers from? In 2012 she was at 17%. Now she's at 21%.
Blackquill
Member
Alternative facts?
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Has anyone heard from Melanchon's camp? I would be happy to translate their reactions but I'm not seeing anything immediately on Le Monde and I don't read any other sources from France.
I think truthfully Macron is probably best classified as a left-liberal; which is to say traditionally right of a social democrat or socialist, but traditionally left of right-liberals, Christian democrats, and conservatives. But it is difficult to compare any politicians across countries. I also think Macron appears further right because he is the third left-most serious candidate because Melanchon and Hamon remained in the race. Certainly in an alternate world where Macron was the PS candidate, he would be right of what was typical for the party, but he is also certainly left of every feasible LR candidate.
The complication of European domestic politics by the addition of the populist-nationalist versus cosmopolitan-EU dimension is making it harder to tell. If you had told me ten years ago that the mainstream left across Europe would generally admire Merkel as a defender of our common values, I would have laughed. And yet, here we are.
I think truthfully Macron is probably best classified as a left-liberal; which is to say traditionally right of a social democrat or socialist, but traditionally left of right-liberals, Christian democrats, and conservatives. But it is difficult to compare any politicians across countries. I also think Macron appears further right because he is the third left-most serious candidate because Melanchon and Hamon remained in the race. Certainly in an alternate world where Macron was the PS candidate, he would be right of what was typical for the party, but he is also certainly left of every feasible LR candidate.
The complication of European domestic politics by the addition of the populist-nationalist versus cosmopolitan-EU dimension is making it harder to tell. If you had told me ten years ago that the mainstream left across Europe would generally admire Merkel as a defender of our common values, I would have laughed. And yet, here we are.
I've heard this before, somewhere.
Chalk it up to three countries, all predominantly white, looking at how the world is becoming more interconnected and minority populations are booming. That scares them shitless into the point of voting for white nationalism because hey, they're the ones that benefit from that.
Alx
Member
Lack of intellectual flexibility from people. After so many years of "liberal economy = right = anti welfare" belief, people can't think another way apparently.
"All votes haven't been counted yet, we don't trust polls, wait for the final result".
GhostTrick
Banned
Cause he's the one who claimed 35 hours/per week should be questionned ?
He's also the one who believes all of these matters should be discussed inside companies, between workers and bosses.
This wasn't funny even when it was true.But with a beret and baguette.
I don't think anyone has officially spoken atm, they're still waiting "for the final results".
Well they come from the fact that he's a neoliberal who wants to cut taxes for corporations and the rich and gut some parts of the welfare state (but not much). It's mainly about his ambition to rewrite the labour code and give more rights to corporations and less protections for workers . We don't consider those social issues but economic issues.
He's left wing socially because he's pro-immigration, pro- gay marriage etc... etc...
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
If Mélenchon don't call for a Macron vote it would be certainly an earthquake for french politics. I think he is capable to do something like that, since he apparently have no issue to saying "she is right" about MLP stance during the presidential debate when he felt the need too.
If he does call for a Macron vote, it would be an earthquake for his base though. The same people who are insulting us for not having voted "useful" are now calling for abstention against fascism. Brillant.
If he does call for a Macron vote, it would be an earthquake for his base though. The same people who are insulting us for not having voted "useful" are now calling for abstention against fascism. Brillant.
It really is, but I'm seeing the same kind of reasoning on my FB feed. Tried to argue with one guy, and the conversation ended with him saying "more power to you, but I won't change my mind". He thinks that abstaining means he won't be responsible for Le Pen's (potential) victory. Idiot.
I feel bad for Hamon and his militants, he didn't deserve this big of a loss. The JLM crowd are going to be completely insufferable for the next two weeks.
The left/right socialist/capitalist divide is a thing of the past. The battle lines of the 21st century are between people who think immigration and trade are good and people who think they are bad.
What has that to do with the welfare state?
Not much to look at yet, but here's a live update on the count:
http://graphics.france24.com/results-first-round-french-presidential-election-2017/
Yeah, I'm sad Hamon underperformed. Whatever else he may be, he sounds refreshingly genuine and humane.
But with a beret and baguette.
This is so clever, original and relevant, congratulations. /s
You have Le Pen instead, let us all rejoice !
RPGCrazied
Member
God Le Pen reminds me so much of Trump its scary. I'm sorry France.
France 24 has a live result page but nothing has really been posted yet.
It was bound to happen sadly, he had barely any support from his own party.
As someone who knows admittedly little about French politics, is there any outcome from this that would have been considered "good?" Fillion sounds worse than Macron and while Melanchon had a huge spike in support, it sounds like it was never likely he'd be in the top two.
It seems like the only options are "bad" and "catastrophic."
Alx
Member
Well currently we only have projections, since the counting isn't finished yet.
Full official and detailed results will be here :
http://elections.interieur.gouv.fr/presidentielle-2017/
He said he'll make a decision later next week. His speech hinted more at a Le Pen support, in my opinion.
I'm pretty sure he'll endorse no one and call for his supporters to vote with their conscience.
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