He'll say who he'll vote for this next week.
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|OT| French Presidential Elect 2017 - La France est toujours insoumise; Le Pen loses
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He'll say who he'll vote for this next week.
chromatic9
Member
Big cities still yet to be counted.
Imagine if Melenchon pulls it back lol on Macron.
"I'll talk about my position later", basically.
GhostTrick
Banned
A more liberal stance means a less welfare state one. When you think the state shouldn't have a word on what happens inside companies and worker's rights and conditions... this is pretty sel explanatory.
Wait, French Guiana voted mainly for Melenchon and Le Pen? Are they voting out of the EU because they are here in south america?
Red Arremer
Member
No, because the tallying is not finished yet. You can't show results that don't exist.
Gurgelhals
Member
Macron is basically a Blairite, which is interesting because France never had it's Blair/Schröder moment in the 1990s where the traditional left-wing party embraced third way politics.
But yeah, the hard left hate him of course because they hate third way politicians almost more than they hate the political right.
Personally, I'm fine with a Blairite candidate in the year 2017 and I would have reeled at such a prospect five years ago. Well, as long as the guy doesn't start to emulate Blair by engaging in an illegal war in the Middle East...
But yeah, the hard left hate him of course because they hate third way politicians almost more than they hate the political right.
Personally, I'm fine with a Blairite candidate in the year 2017 and I would have reeled at such a prospect five years ago. Well, as long as the guy doesn't start to emulate Blair by engaging in an illegal war in the Middle East...
The big cities should put Macron above Le Pen.
Social in social liberal is in regards to social issues not socialism. It's generally used in the phrase, "I'm a social liberal and a fiscal conservative". Which means the person is for a woman's right to choose, is against racism, and against homophobia while right wing on economic issues.
MistakenMobius
Member
but shitty vote is not only in the west: Turkey and Indonesia or Duterte election are not being really progressive.
The same for Kadyrov and Chechnya.
The french result are actually quite encouraging: Macron is progressive and will be very probably the next president...
Is it really like that? It seems here in Germany most of the people think that Macron would be a very fitting president at the moment. And even if you don't agree with his views I don't see a "bad" candidate as in "Trump"-bad.
Trickster
Member
This is taken from a danish newpaper, posted 11 minutes ago -
(did a quick translation from danish) With 20 millions votes counted. The result so far shows that Le Pen gets 24,38 percent of the votes, Macron 22,19 percent, Fillion 19,63 percent and Melenchon 19,09 percent. The french interiorministerium informs according to Reuters.
If that's accurate, I guess I can at least feel somewhat happy that it seems Macron is certain to be in the runoff.
Melanchon sounds like he is basically Bernie Sanders but French, right down to being wishy washy on supporting anyone who does not fully agree with his extremely specific views.
Just noticed that France 24 had marked Jacques Cheminade's ideology as "unclassifiable", haha. No wonder. The guy is a LaRouche nut.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Cheminade
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Cheminade
That's hilarious
I honestly don't know, which is why I'm asking.
And I would lump both Trump and Le Pen as "catastrophically bad" candidates. Macron sounds nowhere near as bad as those two but I get the impression people really aren't huge fans of his economic policies.
I voted for him
(because I felt like I had no choice)
benjipwns
Banned
They're using the Nolan chart's definitions. The welfare state is usually considered on the "economic" axis with taxes or whatever...left-wing socially is pro-gay/minority rights, often pro-choice, pro-free speech, pro-diversity, etc. It'd be more accurate to probably call it the "cultural" axis, I dunno.
Rene Remond's ever expanding classifications work arguably as well with the "left-wing" I'd argue.
Look at that salt :
https://twitter.com/ParisPasRose/status/856233635900514315
https://twitter.com/ParisPasRose/status/856233635900514315
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
As a non-French citizen, personally I would consider myself somewhere between a left-liberal and a social democrat depending on the issue (Bernie was closest to me politically in the US race, I often vote for the social democratic party in Canada, I'd be left of Labour in the UK, I'd vote PS in France in general, I'd probably vote D66 or GroenLinks or maybe Labour in Netherlands, etc.) I don't view it as a choice between bad and catastrophic.
Le Pen is catastrophic, there's no doubt about that. She is against dignity, against kindness, against solidarity, and her actions to destabilize the greatest agent for peace the world has ever assembled are unconscionable. More to the point, her father should have spent most of his life rotting in jail and it's abominable that she has a public presence at all. If I was a prosecutor, I'd probably have tried to make charges stick over the Vel D'hiv stuff a few weeks ago. I do not see how anyone who has a love for peace and unity could ever support her.
But I view Macron as acceptable. France does not end every time it elects a UPM president. I am concerned that Macron will take steps against French economic values, but those questions can be litigated later, and at any rate I think he is less likely to do so than any UPM/LR candidate. I liked Segoline Royal over Hollande, think Hollande was a truly awful president, and think Hamon is a good candidate (actually maybe the best PS has had in a long time) -- but given that the winds of change were what they were, Macron is not bad in my opinion.
whyamihere
Banned
Mélenchon isn't accepting the results until they are official.
Garrett Hawke
Member
rip
that's really relieving to hear
/Dead
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I am generally suspicious of qualitative typologies, and also suspicious of anyone who claims a country's politics are best explained in national context rather than as part of trans-national currents of change in the world. But there is a lot of work in the cooker right now on quantitative ideological scaling in countries with non-informative roll-call voting and I think in the end it is likely that some of the division he highlights are born out behaviourally as well.
DId I say anything factually wrong ?
Point to you.
For me the welfare is more about safety nets against poverty, but it does cover more than that.
That said, 35 hours weeks are kinda unmaterial for me, the joys of being a "cadre"...
Well, Macron more or less stands for the continuation of the status quo; a lot of people want change.
I've never heard anyone in Germany say anything like that. I like him because he's pro-EU, progressive and anti-fascist etc.
Not really. Never heard anyone ever talking stuff like this.
Calm waterfall
Banned
IIRC the same happened 15 years ago when her father went to the second round. Chirac got over 82% of the votes. I understand it´s a different situation but i do see the majority of the French uniting behind Macron. He will probably win by a large margin.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
More about france not leaving europe.
Thanks for this explanation. I'm still trying to wrap my head around all of this since it's obvious American and European politics don't have a ton in common.
Yeah he is so full of shit, it's appalling.
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