Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 |OT| Anyone can save the galaxy once - SPOILERS!

Managed to catch a showing this morning. I enjoyed it as expected, at the least it's fun just spending more time with these characters again. I felt it took a bit longer to find its feet than the original and more of the humour missed the mark (Taserface), but there was still a lot of good stuff there - Drax's nipples and Mary Poppins being the highlights. All of the returning characters were at least as good, if not better than in the first. I was worried Baby Groot might get a bit old by the end, but nope, he was even more lovable than I expected. Bautista is just as good.

Russell was great as Ego. I wouldn't go as far to say he was a great villain, but I liked his interactions with Peter and the reveal of his true intentions. He was a big improvement over the botch job of Ronan. What he did to Meredith was fucking evil and Peter shooting the crap out of him straight away was satisfying.

Klemenieff was funny as Mantis but she did seem to get lost in the mass of characters, especially at the end. Nebula and Gamora's sub plot was a satisfying continuation of their conflict in the first film and I felt Gamora was treated a lot better in this one. Hopefully they get to kick some ass together in Infinity War.

Yondu's role was a surprise. I like Rooker and the character's fine, but I didn't think we spent quite enough time with him to get really attached and so some of that fell a bit flat for me.

All in all, a good sequel. Far too excited by the Adam Warlock tease.
 
Red said:
Putting someone in harm's way, and telling them they are disgusting and ugly are abusive behaviors. These are played for laughs on a character who does not know any better. These are outlaws and there is no reason they should behave properly or understand the nuances of human relationships, but these particular interactions are meant to endear the characters to us. They did not endear anything to me. They represent to me a miscalculation of the script and filmmakers, a blind spot, or a cruel streak in the humor, exploiting what is essentially a child slave for laughs that take advantage of their inexperience. I am engaged with charities like the International Justice Mission and the Polaris Project, so maybe these types of behaviors strike me in a different way than you guys. To me they represent abuse. They are clear transgressions against an innocent party, and they are played for laughs as if that kind of abuse is okay.
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I think the mistake you're making is seeing Drax as human. If Peter Quill did the same thing, you'd be right. Drax is just as poorly adjusted to the world in which he lives as Mantis. He just happens to be the aggressor in most situations.

The insults came off well because Mantis is not ugly. In the context of the alien universe she inhabits, she's adorable. Drax is like a bull in a china shop and has no idea how to speak to females. This is what is played for laughs, not Mantis.

You're not meant to agree with Drax, but to laugh at how much of an asshole he comes off as because he doesn't know any better. There's a scene in the first movie in which Drax observes Peter bringing back something from the ship and when he sees what it is, he says "You're an imbecile."

Earlier in the film, he wants to talk about his own conception. This man is brash and inappropriate but he doesn't mean to hurt Mantis.

There are very few examples of Drax showing sensitivity toward another character in the films, and when he is, it's almost always following others doing the same. If anything, being with the squabbling guardians has made him more insensitive.
 
I understand all that. That's the point I'm making. The scene is played for laughs because Drax's behavior is incongruous with reality. That doesn't make it any less uncomfortable. The filmmakers clearly find it humorous. They assume we will, as well.
 
Red said:
I understand all that. That's the point I'm making. The scene is played for laughs because Drax's behavior is incongruous with reality. That doesn't make it any less uncomfortable. The filmmakers clearly find it humorous. They assume we will, as well.
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Most people did because they have this weird ability to laugh at the stupidity of Drax's comments. I'm sorry you lack that ability and think he's speaking for the authors.
 
DeathyBoy said:
There's a scene near the end where Drax holds Mantis above him as he's pulled into the ground to give her a chance of survival. But he's a monster because he's inappropriate. That makes complete sense.
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I didn't say he is a monster. What are you reading?
 
Everybody is a monster. That's not the problem I had. Yondu is a fan favorite, and he trafficked children for years, leading to dozens if not hundreds of murders. He gets the film's most emotional moments, and the Marvel universe's biggest send off.
DeathyBoy said:
Most people did because they have this weird ability to laugh at the stupidity of Drax's comments. I'm sorry you lack that ability and think he's speaking for the authors.
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I didn't say he was speaking for the authors. He doesn't have to be speaking for Gunn or anyone else. He can speak only for himself, as the character he is. The scene is still played for laughs and it still becomes uncomfortable.
 
Red said:
I understand all that. That's the point I'm making. The scene is played for laughs because Drax's behavior is incongruous with reality. That doesn't make it any less uncomfortable. The filmmakers clearly find it humorous. They assume we will, as well.
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And everyone did. Almost everyone I've spoken to about the movie think the Drax and Mantis relationship is one of the better elements in the film.

Your honestly the only person I've seen with this viewpoint on the characters. Drax is an utter dick to everyone not just Mantis. He makes fun of Quill for being Pathetic in the same film.

The entire point of why Drax and Mantis are so funny is they are polar opposite. She's naive and innocent / kind. And he's blunt and a dick.
 
Red said:
Everybody is a monster. That's not the problem I had. Yondu is a fan favorite, and he trafficked children for years, leading to dozens if not hundreds of murders. He gets the film's most emotional moments, and the Marvel universe's biggest send off.

I didn't say he was speaking for the authors. He doesn't have to be speaking for Gunn or anyone else. He can speak only for himself, as the character he is. The scene is still played for laughs and it still becomes uncomfortable.
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You're entitled to your opinion, but this thread is full of people who don't see it that way.
 
Red said:
Everybody is a monster. That's not the problem I had. Yondu is a fan favorite, and he trafficked children for years, leading to dozens if not hundreds of murders. He gets the film's most emotional moments, and the Marvel universe's biggest send off.
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The Guardians are all fucked up people and Yondu is a Ravager.
They've all done messed up things, doesn't mean they're 100% bad people.

If you want to watch a team of people that are mostly good, just stick with Avengers.
 
Litan said:
The Guardians are all fucked up people and Yondu is a Ravager.
They've all done messed up things, doesn't mean they're 100% bad people.

If you want to watch a team of people that are mostly good, just stick with Avengers.
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Yeah the Guardians never said they were good people, they are people trying do good. Even Drax is self aware enough to know they are kinda shitty. But it doesn't stop them from trying to be ebtter
 
Yes, you guys have encapsulated the theme of the movie, that's right. That's still not the problem I had with the particular relationship between Drax and Mantis. But that was not my only complaint with the movie. I didn't think the final fight scene was well-choreographed, I didn't think the gags landed as often as in the first film. A few jokes went on too long. "Taserface" is like the most unfunny gag in the movie and it goes on the longest. Characters speak too directly to the movie's themes. When Yondu addresses Rocket and yells "I am you etc etc blah blah" it was all too much. It's like—we get it. We got it halfway through the last film.

Overall it felt to me like the series' Age of Ultron, sort of a mess, not really relevant to the long-term story.
 
Yondu was featured so much because the overarching theme was about the father-son relationship, and how Peter felt like he never had that. But then he realizes that Yondu was a better father figure than Jack Russell ever was
 
Red said:
No shit.
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I am very sensitive to the feelings of others and scenes I find to be problematic on screen.

But at some point you have to view the entire point of the guardians of the galaxy is that they're all fish out of water. They are all inept, insensitive, ill-equipped, maladjusted, and/or broken in some fundamental way that makes their outings entertaining. Adding Mantis to this dynamic is not a cruel streak and stays true to the spirit of the series.

If we're getting technical, pouring alcohol on baby groot and kicking him around or sending him on dangerous errands is just as insensitive a scripting decision to take on a naive, child character. But it fits within the boundaries of the series' humor and Baby Groot, like Mantis, has everything work out.
 
Red said:
Everybody is a monster. That's not the problem I had. Yondu is a fan favorite, and he trafficked children for years, leading to dozens if not hundreds of murders. He gets the film's most emotional moments, and the Marvel universe's biggest send off.

I didn't say he was speaking for the authors. He doesn't have to be speaking for Gunn or anyone else. He can speak only for himself, as the character he is. The scene is still played for laughs and it still becomes uncomfortable.
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Pokémon is essentially cockfighting

Your avatar is offensive AF man
 
Slayven said:
The fact Gunn made such shitty people so lovable makes me think his Thunderbolts might not be fit for mortal minds.
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Since he seems like such a THUNDERBOLTS fan, I'd like to think he knows better than to have them be as likeable as the Guardians.

Too bad Crossbones got killed, cuz he's a villain I would have liked to see on that team.
 
Red said:
Yes, you guys have encapsulated the theme of the movie, that's right. That's still not the problem I had with the particular relationship between Drax and Mantis. But that was not my only complaint with the movie. I didn't think the final fight scene was well-choreographed, I didn't think the gags landed as often as in the first film. A few jokes went on too long. "Taserface" is like the most unfunny gag in the movie and it goes on the longest. It felt to me like the series' Age of Ultron, sort of a mess, not really relevant to the long-term story.
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Why is not being relevant to the long-term story a criticism?

I mean ignoring the fact that Nebula being on better terms with everyone is clearly going to play into Infinity War.

Genuinely interested because films should stand alone. They shouldn't be commercials for other films or exist solely to set other films up.
 
Litan said:
Since he seems like such a THUNDERBOLTS fan, I'd like to think he knows better than to have them be as likeable as the Guardians.

Too bad Crossbones got killed, cuz he's a villain I would have liked to see on that team.
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I think they can be as likable as the guardians but in a different way.
 
DeathyBoy said:
Why is not being relevant to the long-term story a criticism?

I mean ignoring the fact that Nebula being on better terms with everyone is clearly going to play into Infinity War.

Genuinely interested because films should stand alone. They shouldn't be commercials for other films or exist solely to set other films up.
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I mean, that's your sensibility. The Marvel films are a franchise and that comes with the expectation that the series will build toward some conclusion. This didn't feel like a significant move forward. It felt meandering and inconsequential.
 
Just saw it, damn good and still pretty funny, no clue how people are saying it's a dud ( A few critics I follow on YouTube were lukewarm on it). I mean I can kinda see where they are coming from with more the same argument but it didn't feel that way to me, you can see how they were a proper team now and it was awesome to see. It didn't feel that way in the first because it was still setting it up. I think it's definitely as good as the first one.
 
Red said:
I mean, that's your sensibility. The Marvel films are a franchise and that comes with the expectation that the series will build toward some conclusion. This didn't feel like a significant move forward. It felt meandering and inconsequential.
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But then you get the opposite, like Iron Man 2; hamfisting MCU continuity in every way possible.

The move forwards with Adam and the OG Guardians are big revelations for the cosmic side of the MCU moving forward. The references to Thanos in this movie were more than sufficient and world-building. He's the universe's boogeyman, which I know irritates people, but it builds him up rather than trying to do it in one film.
 
peanutbutterlatte said:
But then you get the opposite, like Iron Man 2; hamfisting MCU continuity in every way possible.

The move forwards with Adam and the OG Guardians are big revelations for the cosmic side of the MCU moving forward. The references to Thanos in this movie were more than sufficient and world-building. He's the universe's boogeyman, which I know irritates people, but it builds him up rather than trying to do it in one film.
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The Adam reveal could be significant, but I don't think revealing major characters through stingers is an elegant move. Maybe it's expected in Marvel films.

You're right about Iron Man 2 though, and I think GotG2 is still much better than that pile.
 
Red said:
I mean, that's your sensibility. The Marvel films are a franchise and that comes with the expectation that the series will build toward some conclusion. This didn't feel like a significant move forward. It felt meandering and inconsequential.
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All the characters moved forward, just within their own universe which they inhabit.

They didn't conveniently leave out key characters or throw in cameos to tie it in as the other non-Avengers movies frequently do.

Thor 2 The Dark World is the most pointless in terms of being connected to the main story, but it was bad for other reasons besides that.
 
Red said:
I mean, that's your sensibility. The Marvel films are a franchise and that comes with the expectation that the series will build toward some conclusion. This didn't feel like a significant move forward.
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Going into IW the Guardians will be much deeper characters, the audience will have more knowledge of celestials and Thanos being a gigantic asshole and his relationship to characters like Nebula and Gamora. Not to mention set ups for GotG3.

What more did you want? A scene with Gamora bathing in a pool and getting visions?
 
Speevy said:
All the characters moved forward, just within their own universe which they inhabit.

They didn't conveniently leave out key characters or throw in cameos to tie it in as the other non-Avengers movies frequently do.

Thor 2 The Dark World is the most pointless in terms of being connected to the main story, but it was bad for other reasons besides that.
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Most of the characters went through similar arcs as in the first movie. Groot misbehaves and then saves everyone again. Yondu finds his heart again. Rocket confronts his own selfishness and overcomes it for his friends again. The team is saved by the power of friendship again. It retread the same story beats as the first movie. There's even a similar Quill/Gamora dance scene. I was hoping it would do something different, but by the end it all felt also-ran.

I hope Gunn has help with the next script. Some new input and fresh vision.
 
Another line that stuck out to me, but in a good way. Gamora and Nebula saying their are many more girls like them out there. I liked that.
 
I like that Gunn had the restraint to avoid flashbacks. I feel like lesser directors would have had a scene a piece for the Guardians retelling their pasts I.e. Star Lord getting bullied as a child, Drax's daughter, Nebula getting surgically altered.
 
RipperGrim said:
Just saw it, damn good and still pretty funny, no clue how people are saying it's a dud ( A few critics I follow on YouTube were lukewarm on it). I mean I can kinda see where they are coming from with more the same argument but it didn't feel that way to me, you can see how they were a proper team now and it was awesome to see. It didn't feel that way in the first because it was still setting it up. I think it's definitely as good as the first one.
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It's not a dud, but the best parts of it could have been tightened to from a much better product. The gold people were terrible villains. I hated the scene when Rocket was bouncing everyone up in the air with his little machine. The ending scene was based around Yondu so his integration into the plot could have been smoother. They could have sped along the Peter/Ego parts to get to the point a little quicker.

Due to the characters not being in the same place for most of the film, the action jumps around so much.

It's a great film that's been wrapped up in a disjointed, messy one.
 
peanutbutterlatte said:
I like that Gunn had the restraint to avoid flashbacks. I feel like lesser directors would have had a scene a piece for the Guardians retelling their pasts I.e. Star Lord getting bullied as a child, Drax's daughter, Nebula getting surgically altered.
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Well to be nit picky there were brief flash backs that were used to get Starlord to break free from his father and use his powers to fight him.
 
One thing i didn't like is that except Baby Groot krunking and Ego and peter's mom scene . The songs didn't have that hook like the first one. Maybe it's just my taste in music .
 
peanutbutterlatte said:
I like that Gunn had the restraint to avoid flashbacks. I feel like lesser directors would have had a scene a piece for the Guardians retelling their pasts I.e. Star Lord getting bullied as a child, Drax's daughter, Nebula getting surgically altered.
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Agreed. Did love that quick shot of Yondu and young-Starlord though.
 
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