Chuck the Bean
Member
Man... this planet is going bonkers... I'm loosing all hope for humanity.
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Apparent video of Turkish dictator Erdogan's entourage beating up protesters in DC
- Thread starter superdeluxe
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Golden_Pigeon
Banned
This was before the aftermath of the coup, things have been really worse since then.
If i am making a living out of this, please transmit my paypal adress to my employers, i actually could use the money.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
Thanks you for the clarification but i know all that.
Somebody (various actually) in the demonstration (you can see it in the video posted in Twitter) was showing a post sign was calling out for the liberation of a pro-PKK HDP leader in jail in Turkey. I posted early his picture in a PKK rally.
Comparing the relation between YPG and PKK with the relation of Hamas and FATAH is laughable. PKK iconography is to found everywhere in YPG territory, you can see the picture of the PKK leader everywhere. They share the same leftist ideology. In any case, just do a quick google search "YPG and PKK" and you'll find tons of articles about the alliance between the two groups.
In the other hand, Hamas and Fatah are in open armed conflict since 2006.
And it's not the first time, to say the least, that US policy contradict itself.
Here you can clearly see how both organization are intermingled ideologically, the man behind her is the imprisoned leader of the PKK terrorist group, Ocalan. But the YPG logo is present instead of PKK:
There you can see the intermingling of both flags:
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
I think they know very well why they were beating up. The same happens everywhere in the world between both communities. In Paris, band of young turks and kurds fights in the street on a regular basis. Demonstration like that are always very tense.
The novelty here is the incredible passivity of the cops and the fact that they seems to be diplomatic delegation acting as thugs.
Thank God I live in Canada, seeing people normalize violence like this makes me sick to my stomach.
D
Deleted member 20415
Unconfirmed Member
What are you talking about? They tried to control the situation, and force separation.
It's not awesome that it happened, but the police are doing their job... they're not in riot gear, and they are drastically outnumbered.
So they hit a few people with billyclubs to force separation and disengagement.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
I'm not normalizing it. I was beaten up several time by bands of violent zionists affiliated with the JDL for showing up in pro-palestinian rally when i was teenager. I knew why i was getting beaten up, i don't need anybody to explain it to me. I don't see how saying that is normalizing or justifying anything.
When two group which consider themselves as part of an antagonist community live in the same soil and you got into a period of armed conflict, you'll get violence. It's the same in Germany apparently.
Saying peaceful protestors should expect to be violently beaten up mean you have already integrated this violence as a normal fact of life.
Trust me, I'm no fan of extreme Zionism and I'm sorry it happened to you, but this anecdote is feeding into the false equivalency bingo you derailed with. Regular as clockwork.
And America is not "antagonist soil" - they should respect our norms and further, not hire actual mustachioed thugs as "diplomats"
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
Trust me, I'm no fan of extreme Zionism and I'm sorry it happened to you, but this anecdote is feeding into the false equivalency bingo you derailed with. Regular as clockwork.
And America is not "antagonist soil" - they should respect our norms and further, not hire actual mustachioed thugs as "diplomats"
What is this kind of stupidity ? I am now anti semitic because i was beaten up unconscious by zionist extremist group who happen to be jews ?
It's the accusation of antisemitism that is regular as clockwork.
Are you islamophobic because you're denouncing the violence of Erdogan's thugs ?
Or are you saying that there is no equivalency between both ? Zionist extreme group have the right to beat people up because they wear a palestinian scarf but Erdogan's supporter cannot beat PKK-YPG supporters ?
It's not falsely equivalent, it's exactly the same. And if you want more element to your equivalency, the JDL had direct support of the french police and the israeli embassy.
I didn't say that america is an antagonist soil, you should read again carefully.
Where do i say they should expect it ?
The attribution of words is great in this thread.
Explaining something is not like justifying it, nor normalizing it. You can explain any event in history by it's causes, it dosen't make you an apologist of theses events.
Alex_Mexico
Member
I'm noticing that Trump has already met with people from Turkey, Israel, Russia, invited Philipines president and stated he'd be honored to meet Kim Jong-Un and yet he hasn't so much as played with the idea of inviting Mexico's President. Because he'd rather get together with Dictators and demagogues than sit down with their ally neighbor in the south.
I H8 Memes
Member
Honestly this was too out of control for the amount of police there. At least 1 cop beat the crap out of the guy with the gun.
I was reusing a light-hearted gaf trope, and explained to you that I am affronted by hardcore Zionism, including your beating, but you dragged that into this thread, not me.
This is my impression as well.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
Please explain in what sense it's a false equivalency to compare the beating of pro-palestinian by zionist groups and the beating of pro-YPG/PKK group by turkish groups.
TheRealTalker
Banned
even before Erdogan Turkish nationalist and PKK supporters have been going at it for decades
Turkey and the PKK have been fighting each other for around 30 years
it seems though now particularly due to the situation in Syria that they tensions between the two has entered into a extremely heated scenario
Turkey and the PKK have been fighting each other for around 30 years
it seems though now particularly due to the situation in Syria that they tensions between the two has entered into a extremely heated scenario
Alcotholic
Banned
I saw this video on Facebook earlier this morning. I wasn't sure what to make of it, but my chest tightened.
I guess the thing that stuck most out to me was men in business suits beating the shit out of protesters,
I guess the thing that stuck most out to me was men in business suits beating the shit out of protesters,
NonexistentK
Member
the term in the oath was "Turk" and "Turkish being/existence", there was no "glorious" and there was no "race". Also sorry but this "Ataturk was the biggest inspiration of Hitler" stuff is over-exaggerated tangential bs based on only and only on handful of quotes.
Ataturk was an enlightened despot like Catherine II of Russia, Tito of Yugoslavia. or Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore. His dream was of a secular, westernized, progressive, democratic Turkey while all he had at the time was an broken, poor, fractured remnants of an ancient multi ethnic, backward islamic state. Any objective inquiry to his life will show that his ideals were clearly based on 18th & 19th century European enlightenment values. How successful was his transformation of the country or how realistic his goals are an entirely different matter but lets not make a Stalin or even a proto-Hitler out of the man.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
Do you think it's "enlightened" to force kurds to says everyday "How great is it to be Turk"?
It's the case if you are only seeing westernization as the necessary path for all mankind.
His "enlightenment" crushed all religious minorities and ethnicity. It was based on a cult of personality and all kind of opposition was destroyed. Until today, every shop must have a poster of the man, you find will finds many statues of him in all part of Turkey. If you insult him even today, you can be judged for it. His party and ideals of a unified turk nation-state is directly responsible for the armenian genocide as well. There was nothing in his political thought and praxis that was democratic. He founded a state made AGAINST the turkish society to crush it and impose western values. He is more close to the Pahlavi dynasty in Iran.
Even the newspaper from the "left" Cumhuriyet, the main Kemalist news outlet, had a racist motto about Turkish race until recently.
I don't understand how somebody can claim to have some kind of ethics if everything became magically allowed if you're aiming toward european modernity.
And yes, it was the biggest inspiration of Hitler political ideology, as Hitler himself stated.
Here you can find a rather large analysis of Hitler and nazis admiration for Ataturk.
It's the case if you are only seeing westernization as the necessary path for all mankind.
His "enlightenment" crushed all religious minorities and ethnicity. It was based on a cult of personality and all kind of opposition was destroyed. Until today, every shop must have a poster of the man, you find will finds many statues of him in all part of Turkey. If you insult him even today, you can be judged for it. His party and ideals of a unified turk nation-state is directly responsible for the armenian genocide as well. There was nothing in his political thought and praxis that was democratic. He founded a state made AGAINST the turkish society to crush it and impose western values. He is more close to the Pahlavi dynasty in Iran.
Even the newspaper from the "left" Cumhuriyet, the main Kemalist news outlet, had a racist motto about Turkish race until recently.
I don't understand how somebody can claim to have some kind of ethics if everything became magically allowed if you're aiming toward european modernity.
And yes, it was the biggest inspiration of Hitler political ideology, as Hitler himself stated.
Here you can find a rather large analysis of Hitler and nazis admiration for Ataturk.
DC police chief: 'We will not tolerate' attack on protesters at Turkish Embassy
I hope something happens, but yeah the bolded part is worrying.
I hope something happens, but yeah the bolded part is worrying.
Because you were not beaten up by be-suited Israeli diplomats in a foreign capital?
What happened to you sucks, but it is not a valid comparison to yesterday's events.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
I'm sorry, this is America, why the fuck is that allowed?
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Golden_Pigeon, PKK and Ataturk nuances aside, I'm failing to follow what you're trying to do in this thread, so please help me out. Is it that your experience with extreme Zionists in your youth gives you higher ground for explaining why the events we witnessed are all logical, natural and generally par for the course?
The Greek Freak
Member
*American Police in Two Acts*
Allows thugs employed by a dictator to attack other citizens and even hit other cops with zero response.
Shoots fleeing 12 yr old black kid because they were scared for their life.
MURICA!
Allows thugs employed by a dictator to attack other citizens and even hit other cops with zero response.
Shoots fleeing 12 yr old black kid because they were scared for their life.
MURICA!
Woohoo, generalisations!
Pena Nieto embarassared Trump by having the audacity to say "no" to his dumb wall. He's probably on Donnie's eternal hate list at this point.
This is a pretty terrible post, and indicative of the lack of nuance and thoughtfulness that a lot of the public is severely lacking right now when it is needed more than ever. It's literally below an elementary level of comprehension.
MonsterHunter
Member
A Yazidi woman being strangled by one of Erdogan's goons.
We might need another dozen incoherent wallposts from Golden_Pigeon to explain why it's actually the K*rds who are to blame.
Turbo Killer
Member
A Yazidi woman being strangled by one of Erdogan's goons.
We might need another dozen incoherent wallposts from Golden_Pigeon to explain why it's actually the K*rds who are to blame.
Hey look, another cocksucker.
Johnny Cage In The Shower
Member
Jesus Christ! No words.. And they are pulling this shit in the US capital mind you, out of all places..
This is fuckin bullshit, the cops should've arrested every single one of those suited thugs!
This video is infuriating to watch, because it is a clear as day a demonstration of political corruption, you cannot get any more blatant than this!
And I just discovered the worst person that has a GAF account in this thread, rhymes with Olden and Region
This is fuckin bullshit, the cops should've arrested every single one of those suited thugs!
This video is infuriating to watch, because it is a clear as day a demonstration of political corruption, you cannot get any more blatant than this!
And I just discovered the worst person that has a GAF account in this thread, rhymes with Olden and Region
I H8 Memes
Member
It pretty much means exactly that.
Johnny Cage In The Shower
Member
I'd love to see those suited thugs in Ottawa (in my capital city) Love to see them try to pull that shit on demonstrators here. They will cry for Diplomatic immunity while they slowly try to crawl back to whichever shit hole they came from..
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
No, please read again. I am saying exactly the same thing about what have occured to me with zionists about what is occurring to those PKK supporters. It was to point out that if i am supporting violence against them, i would be supporting violence against myself.
This is the problem with this issue. A lot of people don't know shit about Turkey or kurds politics. They just see kurds are the good guys and that it. Some hollywood level of political analysis. So if i am saying that those people are not simply "kurds" but YPG/PKK supporters, for those ignorants i am just being anti-kurdish or supporting violence.
If being against YPG/PKK is anti-kurds, most of kurds are anti-kurds.
If the title or the OP would specify that it was a pro-PKK/YPG demonstration, i wouldn't have said nothing except condemning it.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
Where is the proofs that they are diplomats ? They could be bodyguards or even pro-turkey americans. Some of them have turkish flags. Why would diplomate or bodyguards would come with Turkish flag to display ? Most likely you have some american-turks in the crowd.
The important point of discussion is violence against peaceful demonstration. So the comparison is valid.
Edit: From the Sun article:
"”Pro-Erdogan demonstrator, Mustafa Dikilitas, told ABC television: ”We weren't doing anything wrong. We just celebrated our president.
Another pro-Erdogan demonstrator, Busra Eren, said: ”One of the YPG supporters ran across, picked up a megaphone and hit a Turkish citizen with ."
But demonstrators on the other side blamed Erdogan's partisans for the violence."
So acts of violence are likely to have been committed by american citizen as well.
Also you can clearly see that they were exchange of violence from the other side in one of the video, even if the video show mainly violence from the turkish side. But hey, i am probably seeing things out of "my hate of Kurdish people".
People can be so manicheans sometime.
Johnny Cage In The Shower
Member
Golden_Pigeon, if you don't got one on already... You should put on a cheap Turkish suit while your posting on GAF. You're doing Errrrrrrrrrd "Gods" work buddy!
NonexistentK
Member
I soo don't wanna derail the thread as anti-Tayyip Turk but can't help myself here we go.
First you are equating ethnicity to national identity. For example ethnically I'm Turkic / Slavic (Bosnian) / Georgian yet my nationality is Turkish thus I'm %100 a Turk and perfectly happy to be one. The oath does not say "how great it is to be ethnically Turkic", it says "how happy is the one who says I'm Turk (as in the part of the Turkish nation) Ziya Gokalp also known as the "father of Turkish Nationalism" was ethnically a Kurd so was the 2nd president İsmet İnönü (the on after Ataturk), yet they were hardcore Turkish nationalists Mindblown yet? if not I'll advise you to check news of recently passed Levon Panos Dabağyan, an ethnic armenian who is also one the main founders & ideologues of ultra nationalist "Nationalist Movement" Party in Turkey. Confused let me explain.
The term "Turk" meant Muslim subject of the Ottoman Empire before, a Turkic christian orthodox was not considered a Turk, he did belong to the Orthodox Nation of Empire (millet). Turkish nationalists wanted to change that. They envisaged an inclusive type of nationalism (much like the American one) where anyone who pledge allegiance to the Turkish nation could claim to be a Turk regardless of their ethnic or religious background. That's why it says "happy who says that I'm a Turk" instead of "happy who is a Turk. Of course it did not work for everyone, of course it was a painful process but it did create the "Turkish Nation" as we understand today. And yes the oath you talk about was totally inspired by American Pledge of Allegiance.
not westernization but I see the ideals of enlightenment to be universal ones so in a way yes. And I didn't call him mahatma, I called him a "despot" and for a reason.
No shop has ever had to have his poster so please stop with your exaggerations and about the insults maybe you remember Turkey of 10-20 years ago but now hurling insults at him and slandering his name has become the favorite pastime of every Islamist in the country.
So he & his party ruled from 1923-1938 but he is directly responsible for massacres of 1915, okay dude.
He is the guy who said My people are going to learn the principles of democracy the dictates of truth and the teachings of science" but he had nothing democratic in his political thought, okay. He worked his whole life to turn Turkey in to an unitary nation-state based on the principles of secular democracy but he had nothing democratic in praxis, rolleyey.gif
so why not just show me the quote of Hitler saying "My biggest inspiration for my political ideology is Ataturk" This way I can tell my neo-nazi friends that the biggest inspiration for their ideology was an oriental muslim man named Mustapha Qamal. Again the paper you linked & Ihrig's book which the paper quotes only has 4 tangential quotes him praising Ataturk as a nationalist & secularist yet somehow he is his biggest inspiration for Hitler my final rolleyes ookaaay. and I'm done with you.
I'm guessing you don't know the nature of that outlet.
superdeluxe
Member
Congressmen demand apology from Turkey:
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/333950-gop-senators-to-turkey-apologize-for-dc-brawl
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/333950-gop-senators-to-turkey-apologize-for-dc-brawl
I'm more interested in this guy:
A Yazidi woman being strangled by one of Erdogan's goons.
We might need another dozen incoherent wallposts from Golden_Pigeon to explain why it's actually the K*rds who are to blame.
He's everywhere in the video and to me looks like some boss goon.
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