Wonder Woman |OT| The World is Ready for You, Gal Gad [SPOILERS]

I think my problem with the final battle (one of my few issues with the film), is that it was a bit too standard.

There was just something really great about the way Ares is introduced. Diana turns around and he's just sitting there, back turned, completely calm. That entire moment was very horror-like, because he's just standing there but you know he's a god and could literally do anything. Diana circling him while he's just standing there chill was probably the tensest moment in the movie.

So the resulting battle, while technically impressive, was your typical big-guy-in-armor-throwing-heavy-shit scene. Ares is literally a god, I was expecting the battle to be a little, I dunno, trippy-er.

What Nazis, this was World War I.

Heh, good point.
 
In a word? Liked it, didn't love it. Had some issues. But it had some greatness, too - makes me think of Batman vs. Superman, only replace the "most of the movie is godawful" with "most of the movie is alright."

First off, Gal Gadot is fine. Not the greatest performance I've ever seen - she's a very one note character - but it works well for the movie and she plays that one note very well. Comparisons to Chris Evans as Captain America are apt. "Shucks, I just can't help being so good all the time," but in a way that's endearing rather than obnoxious. She's not Christopher Reeves but she's not that far behind, either.

For the movie itself: the beginning is a bit slow, but I get that we need to ease audiences in, so I'm okay with it. Things start going with the Germans landing on Paradise Island - did NOT expect that, and man, what a cool action scene, with Amazons fighting WWI soldiers. Love seeing cross-historical battles like that.

Things slow down after that with the whole Steve/Diana romance, getting to London, so on, so forth... I thought this part was alright, sort of weighed down by the humor which was more miss than hit. I think my issue is that all of the jokes were LONG. Like, we have Chris Pine pause and stammer his way to the punchline. The gags are predictable - like, "she doesn't understand that clothes aren't for fighting!" - and we already know the funny bit, so we sort of figure it out before the movie gets to it.

Still, it was harmless at worst, and there were some cute scenes. Diana getting excited about seeing a baby is definitely one of my favorites.

After that we get the team together, which I was mixed on... Sammy was the only one I really liked, the others felt sort of flat to me. We just get glimpses of their depth - the Scottish guy with his night-terrors, Chief with his "man without a country" vibe, but they never get followed up on. In general I thought the cast outside of Diana and Steve was undercooked.

No Man's Land was, even knowing it beforehand... amazing. I got chills. Blocking the shots one by one, the enemy lines freaking out, the allies rallying and going over the top. This is the scene that justified the movie for me. The rest of the shortcomings don't matter, because it builds up to one perfect scene. And the followup, fighting through the village, the quiet night in town? Great stuff. If I ever bother rewatching it, that's the section I'm doing it for.

After that, though? All comes falling apart.

I think, even more than most people, the third act dragged it down BADLY for me.

Like, Diana gets in a fight with a superpowered middle-aged German general. Dumb but, sure, fine. We get this great scene where Steve has to explain that, unfortunately, at the end of the day? People are just kind of shitty. Not all of the, not all of the time, but wars aren't fought because a God of War makes them happen. It's just people.

Wait, whoops, sorry, turns out it WAS Ares. And yeah, they try to have their cake and eat it too by saying he's just nudging people along, giving ideas, that sort of thing... but it still completely undermines the earlier scene. It doesn't help that Ares himself is just awful. Like, even in his big ultimate armor form, he's just a wimpy looking British dude? At the dawn of man and war for the cosmos, he had that goofy mustache? I figured it would be a reveal - like, beneath the surface he's actually this huge, imposing, terrifying dude. But nope. Big, giant fisticuffs with that nerd.

And they go down the list of every single cliche on the way.

- "Your mother never told you your REAL origin!"
- "Kill her, and become like me!" "No, I will not be like you, I am a good guy!"
- "I'm gonna sacrifice myself now! THERE'S NO OTHER WAY!"
- "I love you, person I've known for a week!"
- "Mankind is bad, but it's also kinda good, so I won't turn evil."
- "My friend/lover is dead! SUPER SECRET POWERS ACTIVATE!"
- "Giant laser battle for the fate of the world!"
- "Bad guy is dead! Day is saved, war is over, everyone hug!"

They burned away a LOT of goodwill in the last twenty minutes. Not enough to ruin the movie for me, but enough to drop it from an A grade superhero film to a B grade.

If they really, REALLY had their heart set on the Ares plotline... just make him the German general. Have a decent-sized fight with him, not the giant CGI clusterfuck, have Diana finish the job, and realize that mankind is still kind of shitty. Steve sacrifices himself, because even though he's falling for her, he knows there's a bigger picture. She's inspired by his selflessness, big action/escape sequence, movie over. Boiling down "Diana must face the horrors of war" to "Diana has to fight War, like, that dude over there, he's evil" completely cheapens the message that the world of man is flawed, but worth protecting.
 
Not sure if I am misunderstanding you, but they did show her 'landing' back in her original spot with sword in hand, indicating that she had retrieved it. It didn't just magically appear in her hand. Are you saying that the move to have to get it was a mistake in shot planning? i.e. she should have had it in her hand when she sees Sir Patrick suddenly appear?

If so, I agree with the latter. Not sure why she would leave her sword there.

Not that it matters, she lost the sword anyways and had a completely different one for BvS. :)

THAT, to me, is a bit of an error. It seems to me that the 'gifts left by the gods' that were kept in the tower all had magical properties of some kind. The sword included.

In BvS, that sword cut through Doomsday pretty neatly, including cutting off it's hand. I figured it was some kind of magical sword. And yet the sword she has for BvS is apparently a replacement (from where, who knows).

Hmm, i must have missed that part.

Either way it feels like they could have just had her remember to pull the sword out of Ludendorff's body. They didn't commit an editing error, but doing it the way it did just felt a little weird.

My other thought on this movie is that it raises the bar for Captain Marvel: no longer will Marvel get praise for merely making a competent superheroine movie, and they'll have to do more to set Carol apart from just being a Flying Brick type superheroine.
 
I actually like that theme. It is instantly recognizable as WW. If you gave me the themes for Marvel's movies (do they even have themes for every character??) I could never in a million years place them.


I actually don't remember Batman or Superman themes either off the top of my head now that I think about it.

Zimmer's supes theme is actually something I like quite a bit. The main part of it is around 2:04 here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EngKxF3Cqh4
 
I actually like that theme. It is instantly recognizable as WW. If you gave me the themes for Marvel's movies (do they even have themes for every character??) I could never in a million years place them.


I actually don't remember Batman or Superman themes either off the top of my head now that I think about it.

The Batfleck theme is catchy but in the lamest way possibly since it is literally just one note being banged over and over again.
 
Y'all who say Diana became WW because she loved Steve need to watch the movie again.

First; Steve had no arc whatsoever. The same guy whose plane went down got onto the plane at the end. That's great; it's not his story.

Diana's arc was a "coming of age" story in a lot of ways. Obviously she's way older so it doesn't look obvious; but her arc is about leaving innocence behind; falling in love your first time; having an easy early "win" only to be confronted with the ugly in humanity; and ultimately growing by learning about selfless love.

After killing fAres; and seeing men still killing, Diana had to grow up and realize that the happy world she was taught as a child didn't exist and she was disappointed in how un-heroic (the trait she values most) men really are

But Steve made such a heroic choice that it completely changed her mind and realized her and humanity's full potential. Him saying I Love You further emphasized how selfless and heroic Steve's act was.

Patti Jenkins absolutely blew me away. I have a feeling the slow mo and color palette were forced on her by the producers; but she made better use of slow-mo than snyder in any of his D.C. movies.

The movie was also very very lean and almost everything had a payoff. "Shield!", not letting your guard down, and even the
villain twist; while a bit convenient, further emphasized the theme of grey morality, Steve had built up his side as the good guys the whole movie.
 
I think my problem with the final battle (one of my few issues with the film), is that it was a bit too standard.

There was just something really great about the way Ares is introduced. Diana turns around and he's just sitting there, back turned, completely calm. That entire moment was very horror-like, because he's just standing there but you know he's a god and could literally do anything. Diana circling him while he's just standing there chill was probably the tensest moment in the movie.

So the resulting battle, while technically impressive, was your typical big-guy-in-armor-throwing-heavy-shit scene. Ares is literally a god, I was expecting the battle to be a little, I dunno, trippy-er.

I was hoping they were gonna do something a little different. He was even doing all the vision-quest stuff with the lasso.

Oh well.
 
With respect to TestMonkey, this looks like a case of looking for something to be offended by.

That's a heck of a sacrifice by Steve when you think about it. Not only did he die young, but missed the possibility spend the next 40/50 years with Diana, who aside from being bad-ass in general, will eternally look like a 30-year-old Gal Gadot. Bummer dude.
I'm just observant. Like the mother and child who were sitting in the trenches before the big charge. No one has crossed in a year and the nearest crossing is hours away so how and why were they there?

I thought the movie was fun but it falls apart if you look at it closely.
 
I actually like that theme. It is instantly recognizable as WW. If you gave me the themes for Marvel's movies (do they even have themes for every character??) I could never in a million years place them.


I actually don't remember Batman or Superman themes either off the top of my head now that I think about it.

Both Batman and Superman have awesome themes. You might not remember them now, but when they will be played in Justice League and future movies, you will instantly recognize them. Especially Superman's MoS theme.
 
Y'all who say Diana became WW because she loved Steve need to watch the movie again.

First; Steve had no arc whatsoever. The same guy whose plane went down got onto the plane at the end. That's great; it's not his story.

Diana's arc was a "coming of age" story in a lot of ways. Obviously she's way older so it doesn't look obvious; but her arc is about leaving innocence behind; falling in love your first time; having an easy early "win" only to be confronted with the ugly in humanity; and ultimately growing by learning about selfless love.

After killing fAres; and seeing men still killing, Diana had to grow up and realize that the happy world she was taught as a child didn't exist and she was disappointed in how un-heroic (the trait she values most) men really are

But Steve made such a heroic choice that it completely changed her mind and realized her and humanity's full potential. Him saying I Love You further emphasized how selfless and heroic Steve's act was.

Patti Jenkins absolutely blew me away. I have a feeling the slow mo and color palette were forced on her by the producers; but she made better use of slow-mo than snyder in any of his D.C. movies.

The movie was also very very lean and almost everything had a payoff. "Shield!", not letting your guard down, and even the
villain twist; while a bit convenient, further emphasized the theme of grey morality, Steve had built up his side as the good guys the whole movie.


100% with you on this. She is one of the best at pulling heart felt emotion out of the actors she works with and for me personally, that is what I cherish most when viewing a film. Her next film, whatever it may be (hopefully WW2) instantly shot up on my 5 most anticipated list.
 
I love that Ares is just a shriveled old man that is not only a brute but also cunning with words. I expecting him to be some giant demon in armor and glowing red eyes and I got the exact opposite.
 
Just saw it. It was pretty fun and I overall enjoyed it.

I will say that the slowmo quickly became overused and obnoxious, and towards the end of the movie it got pretty cheesy and predictable. I'd still say it was worth a watch for everything leading up to though.

Some of the choreography early on was just gorgeous.
 
Y'all who say Diana became WW because she loved Steve need to watch the movie again.

First; Steve had no arc whatsoever. The same guy whose plane went down got onto the plane at the end. That's great; it's not his story.

Diana's arc was a "coming of age" story in a lot of ways. Obviously she's way older so it doesn't look obvious; but her arc is about leaving innocence behind; falling in love your first time; having an easy early "win" only to be confronted with the ugly in humanity; and ultimately growing by learning about selfless love.

After killing fAres; and seeing men still killing, Diana had to grow up and realize that the happy world she was taught as a child didn't exist and she was disappointed in how un-heroic (the trait she values most) men really are

But Steve made such a heroic choice that it completely changed her mind and realized her and humanity's full potential. Him saying I Love You further emphasized how selfless and heroic Steve's act was.

Patti Jenkins absolutely blew me away. I have a feeling the slow mo and color palette were forced on her by the producers; but she made better use of slow-mo than snyder in any of his D.C. movies.

The movie was also very very lean and almost everything had a payoff. "Shield!", not letting your guard down, and even the
villain twist; while a bit convenient, further emphasized the theme of grey morality, Steve had built up his side as the good guys the whole movie.

Regarding your point about her realizing men will still fight wars with Ares dead, that happens off screen through her voice over. We are robbed of seeing it because they don't actually show her seeing WW2 start even after she killed Ares. In fact, as soon as she killed Ares the Germans and Allies started hugging.

Edit* I guess This is a spoiler thread so we don't need to spoiler tag

Basically, this movie had some good ideas but didn't execute some of them that well in my opinion. I agree with the people who felt that the ending was the weak point. I think the movie was not bad but people may be thinking its better than it is because it's being compared to BvS and Catwoman.
 
Regarding your point about
her realizing men will still fight wars with Ares dead, that happens off screen through her voice over. We are robbed of seeing it because they don't actually show her seeing WW2 start even after she killed Ares. In fact, as soon as she killed Ares the Germans and Allies started hugging.
.

Afaik World War 2 never happened in DC universe at least on Earth 1. It happened on Earth Two. I maybe wrong though, can anyone more knowledgeable about DC confirm?
 
It's like Harley Quinn is making a run at being the most popular female DC character and Wonder Woman just said "ehh .... not so fast."
 
Regarding your point about her realizing men will still fight wars with Ares dead, that happens off screen through her voice over. We are robbed of seeing it because they don't actually show her seeing WW2 start even after she killed Ares.
No, we already saw her have that revelation when she killed Ludendorff and the war didn't stop. When Ares appeared, he clarified that he doesn't actually make men do anything, so there'd be no reason for her to think that killing Ares would end all war, she kills him to stop that particular plan.
 
No man's land was so fucking great. Seriously one of the most satisfying moments in a superhero movie that I can remember.

Man of steel needed a scene like that for superman.
 
No, we already saw her have that revelation when she killed Ludendorff and the war didn't stop. When Ares appeared, he clarified that he doesn't actually make men do anything, so there'd be no reason for her to think that killing Ares would end all war, she kills him to stop that particular plan.

Oh ya I do remember that.
 
I think the movie was not bad but people may be thinking its better than it is because it's being compared to BvS and Catwoman.

lol

Hardly. I'm certainly not that simple. When I judge if I like a movie, it doesn't matter what came before it. This is easily one of my favourite superhero movies, in my top three easily.

That includes any superhero movie put out by any studio, yes including the almighty Marvel.

Catwoman? lol

Simply put, I liked the movie a whole lot. It hit me right where a superhero original story needs to hit me. Others will pick on periphery in the story that doesn't matter that much to me, and that's up to them to do. Saw it twice, and have a feeling that once it's on digital I will be watching it a lot more. I tend to do that with movies I like a lot.
 
Regarding your point about her realizing men will still fight wars with Ares dead, that happens off screen through her voice over. We are robbed of seeing it because they don't actually show her seeing WW2 start even after she killed Ares. In fact, as soon as she killed Ares the Germans and Allies started hugging.

Her V.O. strongly implied (or was it explicit? Will check on 2nd viewsing) about man's choice in morality.

Re: the hugging. Were there any Allies or just the 3 guys with Steve and Diana? Also; I would imagine that seeing a battle among gods would make mortal enemies put their differences aside. I don't think it was indicative of mind control.
 
Afaik World War 2 never happened in DC universe at least on Earth 1. It happened on Earth Two. I maybe wrong though, can anyone more knowledgeable about DC confirm?

Heh, you're right, because in the Golden Age of DC comics, Superman nabbed Hitler and Stalin after Molotov-Ribbentrop and turned them in to the League of Nations.

Though i don't know if that actually stuck.
 
Heh, you're right, because in the Golden Age of DC comics, Superman nabbed Hitler and Stalin after Molotov-Ribbentrop and turned them in to the League of Nations.

Though i don't know if that actually stuck.

Yeah just did some reading and found out the same. WW2 happens on Earth Two with Justice Society being involved.
 
At least we got Ares, guys. For a second I thought they will pull off a Iron Man 3 and there will be no Ares. I would have been mighty pissed if that had happened.
 
Why was the CGI during the final act so bad. I was expecting it to look like Man of steel. The scene of her fighting the Germans in the fire looked like she was gliding.
 
At least we got Ares, guys. For a second I thought they will pull off a Iron Man 3 and there will be no Ares. I would have been mighty pissed if that had happened.

I liked that we were psyched out to believe that she was the naive one all along, and that Ares wasn't real when she killed who she believed Ares was. We let our own conceit that we know "how it really is in the real world" work against us.

It would have been really easy for the writers to leave it at that, but they allowed Diana to be right all along that Ares was real.

That was cool to me. The edgy kids will of course say that they saw right through that from the beginning, but I'm not an edgy cool kid so I didn't. :)
 
Loved it. Joins the pantheon for me.

TDK. Iron Man. Wonder Women.

No order, just great films that shine above the others in so many respects IMO.


The only thing I would have like to see was more a studio risk and having Ares flee like the coward they showed him to be. Running and hiding from Zeus, whispering in Man's ear. Save the battle for the sequel, but they're not going to do that with this much money in a production.
 
Now that I think of it....

Ares made his Armor with a pile of scraps... as oppose to a box..

tumblr_m5e2anolVK1r7qi2ro3_r2_250.gif


Anyways.. who the fuck was the German general guy suppose to be from the comics?
 
Ok, but what the fuck was with the pills? They never explained that shit.

What explanation was needed? The chemist came up with something to give him more strength. He used it a couple of times.

Could have had a bigger payoff I suppose, but what about it needed further explaining?
 
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