Wonder Woman |OT| The World is Ready for You, Gal Gad [SPOILERS]

I've seen it, finally! Prepare for some incoherent ramblings.

I don't know what it is with DC films but every time my theater ends up filled with teenagers who laugh throughout the entire movie. Not the best experience... At least there was a group of old ladies not far from me and they seemed to be having a great time, lol.

While it's in a completely different genre, WW reminds me of Logan in a way. It's so close to greatness that its flaws are all the more bitter. I was expecting an average comic-book film but I got a lot more than that. In some parts. The movie really does a great job of bringing the essence of Wonder Woman to the screen. Jenkins believes in her character and that love and care shines through. It definitely belongs in the First Avenger / Batman Begins / Superman The Movie club but it's not nearly as good as those, unfortunately. The special effects are absolutely horrendous. I don't know that I've seen such bad CG in a Hollywood blockbuster in the last decade. Thor and First Avenger had some terrible looking shots but Jenkins relies so much on these effects that it ruined most of the set-pieces for me.

I didn't have a problem with the final act at first and I love what they did with Steve Trevor but the exchange between Ares and Diana had so many terrible lines... I should note that I saw the french dub (I had no choice, it was either that or a four hour commute), so this might just be the translation. None of the jokes really worked either but once again, I'm sure it's a lot better in english.

What I loved is that this really felt like a DC film. There was a larger mythology at play here (and I'm not talking about the other DC heroes) and a sense of weight and history that I always felt was very unique to DC. Goddammit, I loved Themyscira. Jenkins and her crew pulled off the number one thing they needed to do: they brought Diana, the true Diana, to the screen, and I'm quite happy for that. I'm not gonna comment on the acting because of the dub but Gadot and Pine seemed great. Right now, I can't help but be frustrated that they didn't quite get there. I wish Jenkins had had a little bit more time and money to polish some of the really rough spots. But once I see the movie on blu-ray in english, I'm sure I'll grow to love it a lot more and accept its flaws.

As of right now it's a 6.5/10 for me. But it's a solid and enthusiastic 6.5.

I also find some of the comparisons to other DC films a bit strange since I thought the movie was extremely dark in its own way. Yes, Diana saves people and is a beacon of light but she also ends up losing her innocence in a heartbreaking way. And that's not a criticism, I just find some of the reactions a bit strange.

My DCEU Ranking:
Man of Steel > Wonder Woman >>>>> BvS
Suicide Squad is too shit to even count.
 
i saw this Tuesday at the cheap screening. There were lines forming 30mins early to get in. I guess word of mouth is good (I came because of the RT score). My scattered impressions:

Gal Gadot can't act and that accent took me out of the scene every time.
Gal Gadot does action scenes with aplomb. The use of slow-mo grew on me and even that awkward sliding smashing column gif from the trailer was fine in the context of the film.
Of course she 'falls in love' with the first man she meets. Yes I know it's canon but I personally didn't see any chemistry between this Wonder Woman and Steve Trevor. I was surprised they had 'sex' (or 'made love') and even more surprised when she declared the power of 'love' to win the final battle.
Furthermore the side characters were under developed. I felt nothing when Steve sacrificed himself. The others barely had their own story arcs and I didn't care for them at all. Diana's only momentous interaction with a woman after the first act was to spend hours trying out dresses to please a man wtf?
The mixed messages of the third ac has already been discussed in this thread I see. I agree. Ares did not need to be present in this story
In the broader framing of the DCEU I still barely understand Diana's motivations and actions in BvS and the present day of this film. Is Wonder Woman 2 going to be another flashback?

All in all the film was competently directed and edited ― although, after the horrible MoS, BvS and SS, competency should not be taken for granted ― but quite boring (the only reaction from the crowd in my full theater was some laughter at the obvious 'both frightened and aroused' line). I enjoyed seeing Wonder Woman in action but I still don't care about Diana ― which is how I felt after BvS.
 
Loved Wonder Woman. It wasn't perfect, and I have a lot of nitpicks, but it wasn't enough to ruin the movie. B+

Let's go through the nitpicks first:
-Some of the editing was weird. Certain scenes jumps a second too early and was jarring.
-Some of the actions felt too soft.
-The same attacks were used pretty often.
-Some of the actions were zoomed too close.
-I hate the WW electric guitar theme.
-All 3 villains were underwhelming. Aries still keeping his old, thick mustache human face at the end was laughable. You had the perfect excuse to villianfy his face up, and yet you keep the goofy mustache? lol!
-Still on Aries, he became your classic, cliche villian. Pretty disappointing.
-WW's aunt's death was anti-climatic. Also, why did the action all of a sudden stopped? They were still in the middle of it.
-Diana had books on all languages and knew ow to speak and read most, if not all of them. It makes me think the Amazonians has great knowledge of the world around them even if they stay in their bubble, but Diana being completely clueless to the outside world was a tough sell that I willingly bought.

The positives
+Action for the most part was great and reminded me of The Winter Soldier (best MCU movie).
+Soundtrack was great except for the theme.
+Well paced.
+Loved the history lesson animation on Zeus/Aries.
+Decent side characters.
+Good chemistry between Steve and Diana.

The middle:
*I liked how visceral the ramification of war was. But at the same time, if little girls were part of the demographics this movie was targeting, it felt kinda graphic. Some of the death scenes also weren't a simple slit, but a thick stab or impalement.
*Gal Gadot's acting. I only thought it was serviceable and don't understand the praise. I can only assume the expectations were so low that a decent performance received praise. I felt in a few scenes, she really had to try hard to deliver her lines instead of coming out naturally.
*The contrast is still dark and grimey, but I'll excuse it for the period piece setting.
*Is it just me or did Steve imply he was married?

Kinda wish I wrote this up right after seeing the movie while my thoughts are fresh, but yeah, if DC keeps giving me this quality, I'm on board.
 
Saw it last night. I liked it a lot but thought it could have been much better. The first 2/3 of the movie was excellent but the last third got really corny and drawn out.

I couldnt stop laughing when it was revealed that Nigel fucking Thornberry was the bad guy all along. I was fine with his "current" look but I really lost my shit when you see the flashback and Aries was this muscular balding dude with the goofy mustache screaming at the Gods. It really took me out of the movie.

Then it turned into a CG fest of Gods firing beams and throwing stuff at each other. No Mans Land was incredible because of the close quarters combat.

I loved when Diana realized that you cant just kill one person and end conflict everywhere forever. But then Aries dies and after the giant explosion all the German soldiers are smiling and celebrating with the British in slow motion like its a Budweiser commercial. I feel like the ending dulled the impact of some of the lessons this movie was trying to teach.

On a positive note, Chris Pine as usual is a fun actor to watch. I enjoyed his scenes and lines. I'm ambivalent about Gal Gadots casting however. She was great in some scenes but mediocre in others.
 
Ares usually has a disguise. Wich the general character could have been and then when he became Ares they should have used a other actor. Not sure why they did this. Maybe David Thewlis said. I do it. Only if i can be real Ares also?
 
I really enjoyed this. Got super sucked in to Diana's naivety and how it got slowly chipped away as the film went on. Pine was fantastic as well, hurt when the camera was focused on his face as he tried to make that final shot.

Might've like the action to not be so hard to follow in places (one of the reasons I'm so in on John Wick) and while I thought Ares really sold his power at the start he got taken down a little simply towards the end, would've liked more of a brawl. Guess there's justice league for that.

Speaking of which I'm not sure if this film has given me much more hope in the JL film but if they can follow this tone of heroes being heroes it's got a chance.
 
Theorry said:
Ares usually has a disguise. Wich the general character could have been and then when he became Ares they should have used a other actor. Not sure why they did this. Maybe David Thewlis said. I do it. Only if i can be real Ares also?
Click to expand...

Why would Ares have a disguise? Diana was told every story and didn't know what he looked like.
 
Wow what a great film, got back from it

The line "Be careful in the world of men, Diana, they do not deserve you." I was like
Oh Fuck, haha that was fucking awesome, especially the way some Guys have acted since it has come out.
 
DeathyBoy said:
Why would Ares have a disguise? Diana was told every story and didn't know what he looked like.
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Well he usually takes a more normal human body to you know blend into the world. Where when he is full Ares he is a big crazy looking dude. Would made more sense if the general character was more his "disguise" body to blend in and offcourse when he went full Ares we got to see what he really looked like. Wich probably easy could have been played by a different actor and maybe less CGI needed.
 
Minor minor thing but I have to point it out:

Ares = The Greek God of War

Aries = The astrological Zodiac sign for the ram

Theorry said:
Ares usually has a disguise. Wich the general character could have been and then when he became Ares they should have used a other actor. Not sure why they did this. Maybe David Thewlis said. I do it. Only if i can be real Ares also?
Click to expand...
This is what I was hoping for, but then that flashback lol.
 
border said:
So why try to kill her? She declines his offer to exterminate humanity and rule at his side....at the point you might as well slink away and try to come up with a new plan or a better way to convince her. If he fights her and wins then he is alone for eternity. If she wins, then he's dead and humanity continues on. It's kind of a lose-lose scenario.
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That's really my only complaint, and from what we saw on Olympus Ares slinking away like a coward would have been more true to his character, at least in this film.

But a $150m summer comic blockbuster isn't going to take a risk on a big final confrontation like that.
 
I just picked up the Steve Trevor one-shot that came out today and that takes place in the current DC comic-book continuity and Charlie, Sameer and Chief are now allies of Trevor in the present day. They work with him at ARGUS (DC's SHIELD). That's kinda neat.
 
This was a really okay movie. I liked it, but it still was dragged down by bad writing, awful CG, and some bad acting.

DEFINITELY a step in the right direction.

Pine was fantastic.
 
My wife and I liked it (her moreso). She usually hates violence but she had lots of fun watching a woman kick major ass.
Gal was terrible at times but serviceable in others. You can really see her trying to act instead of doing it naturally. But it was decent enough that it didn't bother me as much as I expected going in.

My major concern now is, she's a goddess. What can harm a goddess (esp if she can create a force field like that)? Can Cheetah even harm WW?
 
squeakywheel said:
My wife and I liked it (her moreso). She usually hates violence but she had lots of fun watching a woman kick major ass.
Gal was terrible at times but serviceable in others. You can really see her trying to act instead of doing it naturally. But it was decent enough that it didn't bother me as much as I expected going in.

My major concern now is, she's a goddess. What can harm a goddess (esp if she can create a force field like that)? Can Cheetah even harm WW?
Click to expand...

Sure. Assuming that Zeus & co weren't actual creator gods (and they're probably not, the bedtime story is implied to not be at all complete or literal), Diana's godhood is like Superman's superpowers, basically.
 
Volimar said:
MLc2BMh.gif



Not what he's really saying
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That spelling though..
 
I'm really not understanding some of the feedback on Gadot's acting. I can't think of a single scene she didn't nail. Is the real issue here her accent?
 
Eidan said:
I'm really not understanding some of the feedback on Gadot's acting. I can't think of a single scene she didn't nail. Is the real issue here her accent?
Click to expand...
It must be honestly. Even in BvS, there was nothing to warrant some of the hate getting spewed her way
 
Ashhong said:
Wut? If he doesn't fight her then she will stop his plan
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His plan was to extend war by setting up a crappy armistice that would fuel future conflict. Diana did not stop Ares' plan. She arguably helped complete it. It doesn't make any sense for him to fight her head-on at that point, especially knowing her capabilities.

The only plan she stopped was that of the German general and Dr. Poison.
 
I understand why they set it in WW1 but given the entire message of the movie it's kind of a downer that the implication is that humans did way worse than Ares could ever imagine by themselves 20 years after he was stopped.
 
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku! said:
I understand why they set it in WW1 but given the entire message of the movie it's kind of a downer that the implication is that humans did way worse than Ares could ever imagine by themselves 20 years after he was stopped.
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Fits with the tone of the DCU so far, and is obviously the intent.

All 3 heroes so far were let down by the world around them, but Superman was the only one to overcome it, bringing Bruce back from the depths of hell and reminding Diana what she once fought for.
 
Shame to see people don't like the WW guitar riff, I thought it was pretty awesome. They used it sparingly in the movie and when it was used I thought it was done really well.
 
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku! said:
I understand why they set it in WW1 but given the entire message of the movie it's kind of a downer that the implication is that humans did way worse than Ares could ever imagine by themselves 20 years after he was stopped.
Click to expand...

People have floated the idea that WW2 might not take place in the DCEU, as apparently that is what happened in some comic book timelines. I personally doubt it will ever really be addressed.

I think it might be interesting to see a Wonder Woman that has become somewhat hardened and cynical after her actions in WW1 failed to avert an even worse humanitarian crisis in WW2. But the DCEU doesn't exactly need more hardened, cynical heroes so I doubt that approach will be taken either. I think the message that DC/WB will take away from this film is that it's desirable to have heroes that aren't broken Snyder fantasies or Marvel-esque wisecracking quippers. And that's probably a good thing.
 
Just got back from second viewing.

A few of us here were wondering what happened to the big ships early on at the island..I noticed this time that it hits...something...and sinks in the background while the Germans are storming the beach.

border said:
His plan was to extend war by setting up a crappy armistice that would fuel future conflict. Diana did not stop Ares' plan. She arguably helped complete it. It doesn't make any sense for him to fight her head-on at that point, especially knowing her capabilities.

The only plan she stopped was that of the German general and Dr. Poison.
Click to expand...
Steve stopped his immediate plan. Diana tells Steve that Ares would never let the armistice actually happen, but she cuts herself off and realizes who she thinks is Ares. But she is still right. Ares was hoping the humans would use the gas, kill themselves, and re-ignite the war. That is why he told Steve not to go to that dance/whatever. He legit didn't want them to stop the gas attack. Funny enough, if Diana would have killed Ludendorf there in public, she would have also further ignited the war.

I like Ares because I legitimately think he would like to be proved wrong, and the humans make peace. But at the same time, he was tempting the shit out of them and trying to corrupt them. What a dick.

Also, it bothered me even more this time that the Germans at the end take off their masks in a "it's over!" kind of way after Ares dies. One even hugs Chief. The movie really couldn't make up its mind on the whole "you can't just kill 1 guy and stop the war" thing that Steve told Diana. It felt like they had two good ideas, but each played against each other. Instead of picking one, they mushed them both in there.

Movie was still great on 2nd viewing.
 
Vincent Alexander said:
Just got back from second viewing.

A few of us here were wondering what happened to the big ships early on at the island..I noticed this time that it hits...something...and sinks in the background while the Germans are storming the beach.


Steve stopped his immediate plan. Diana tells Steve that Ares would never let the armistice actually happen, but she cuts herself off and realizes who she thinks is Ares. But she is still right. Ares was hoping the humans would use the gas, kill themselves, and re-ignite the war. That is why he told Steve not to go to that dance/whatever. He legit didn't want them to stop the gas attack. Funny enough, if Diana would have killed Ludendorf there in public, she would have also further ignited the war.

I like Ares because I legitimately think he would like to be proved wrong, and the humans make peace. But at the same time, he was tempting the shit out of them and trying to corrupt them. What a dick.

Also, it bothered me even more this time that the Germans at the end take off their masks in a "it's over!" kind of way after Ares dies. One even hugs Chief. The movie really couldn't make up its mind on the whole "you can't just kill 1 guy and stop the war" thing that Steve told Diana. It felt like they had two good ideas, but each played against each other. Instead of picking one, they mushed them both in there.

Movie was still great on 2nd viewing.
Click to expand...
Maybe Steve was wrong all the time and on the DCEU you indeed can kill one(god) to make peace? After all he didn't believed in Ares or any other God
 
Vincent Alexander said:
Steve stopped his immediate plan. Diana tells Steve that Ares would never let the armistice actually happen, but she cuts herself off and realizes who she thinks is Ares. But she is still right. Ares was hoping the humans would use the gas, kill themselves, and re-ignite the war. That is why he told Steve not to go to that dance/whatever. He legit didn't want them to stop the gas attack. Funny enough, if Diana would have killed Ludendorf there in public, she would have also further ignited the war.
Click to expand...

The problem with the Ares twist-reveal is that it basically sets up a situation where he wins either way. If the armistice is accepted, he wins. If the gas bombs drop, he wins. Either millions die in a gas bomb or the poor terms of the armistice lead Europe directly into WW2. Maybe he wins a little more if the bombs drop or maybe he wins a little more if he ignites WW2. Either way there's really no need for him to get into a fight with the god that was born and bred to kill him, in this particular instance. Dude has been biding his time for at least 2000 years, so it's hard to say why this is the hill he wants to die on.

To be fair I feel like this is a problem with any number of films. Why does the big bad villain get goaded into a fight when the smarter move would just be to retreat and regroup? If you want to not be bothered, you can just chalk it up to "hubris", as is done in similar movies.
 
effingvic said:
I couldnt stop laughing when it was revealed that Nigel fucking Thornberry was the bad guy all along. I was fine with his "current" look but I really lost my shit when you see the flashback and Aries was this muscular balding dude with the goofy mustache screaming at the Gods.
Click to expand...

Couldn't stop laughing?

I bet that went over well in your theatre.
 
Vincent Alexander said:
Just got back from second viewing.

A few of us here were wondering what happened to the big ships early on at the island..I noticed this time that it hits...something...and sinks in the background while the Germans are storming the beach.
Click to expand...

The general consensus seems to be that the large rocky outcroppings in the water surrounding the island likely caught the ship by surprise, and that caused it to sink. There was only one such ship.

Remember the island is shielded visually, so it's entirely plausible that the big ship would not have been able to avoid the rocks that it only saw as it crossed the barrier. It would have been good if they would have had a quick cut to the ship to show it striking the rock.
 
Vincent Alexander said:
Just got back from second viewing.

A few of us here were wondering what happened to the big ships early on at the island..I noticed this time that it hits...something...and sinks in the background while the Germans are storming the beach.


Steve stopped his immediate plan. Diana tells Steve that Ares would never let the armistice actually happen, but she cuts herself off and realizes who she thinks is Ares. But she is still right. Ares was hoping the humans would use the gas, kill themselves, and re-ignite the war. That is why he told Steve not to go to that dance/whatever. He legit didn't want them to stop the gas attack. Funny enough, if Diana would have killed Ludendorf there in public, she would have also further ignited the war.

I like Ares because I legitimately think he would like to be proved wrong, and the humans make peace. But at the same time, he was tempting the shit out of them and trying to corrupt them. What a dick.

Also, it bothered me even more this time that the Germans at the end take off their masks in a "it's over!" kind of way after Ares dies. One even hugs Chief. The movie really couldn't make up its mind on the whole "you can't just kill 1 guy and stop the war" thing that Steve told Diana. It felt like they had two good ideas, but each played against each other. Instead of picking one, they mushed them both in there.

Movie was still great on 2nd viewing.
Click to expand...

I kinda like that they went that direction; that the amazon story wouldn't necessarily be 'wrong' and man can be manipulated, but Diana learns too that mankind is both capable of terrible things with the 'right' motivation and can also still appreciate life (especially when coming face to face with their own death). It feels like to just pick one wouldn't actually be the truth.
 
Just came from a viewing. This is my favorite super heroe movie to date... maybe aside from the dark knight. I loved this so much.
 
Saw it, and overall I am quite please of how solid it was. Some minor nitpicks here and there, but the third act did have some really stupid stuff, particularly when Diana powers up and I am just there face palming till the battle was over. Ares turned out to be super lame, and I can't take him seriously for his looks alone. Still, least this movie's third act was better than the even more hot mess that was BvS's third act, so that is good I guess.:P

Otherwise through, pretty good movie. The No Land's scene was especially really damn good despite some cheesy-ness with the action.
 
Saw it for the second time, and seeing it again just made it better for me. Definitely got a more well-rounded look at various aspects of the film the second time around.

I still don't have the strong dislike of the third act that I see from most of the film pundits on youtube.

It's not a perfectly executed climax (there are things that could have made the action more dramatic and impactful rather than have explosions and magic going off everywhere) but there really wasn't much in the final fight that I found mind numbing or overlong.

When all is said and done, the Ares battle is about ten minutes in length, and that's with cutting between Diana, Trevor, and the plane sequences.

It was really Diana's and Trevor's last scene and how it creates her character that made the ending work for me.

And I think I said it in my initial impressions, but man, I would have been happier with a super long cut of this film with more scenes involving Trevor and Diana. For a film over two hours long, the pacing was brisk and really flew by once she gets to No Mans Land (which I guess it had to be pushed along because it's the halfway point of the film).

I'm already making plans with other friends to see it again this weekend. It's TDK all over again where I want to see it with everyone.
 
Two things in the climax didn't work for me. The first is the fight with the general. The writers decided Diana needed a mid-boss before she could get to the final boss, and it was totally unnecessary. What it did do was provide a red herring for Diana to go after, thinking he's Ares.

The other moment is when she spares Dr. Poison. I'm really not sure what point that moment served. Was she deciding that violence isn't always necessarry to stop her enemies? Having a random moment of empathy? Didn't want to kill a woman? I don't know.

What I wish they had done was get rid of the mid-boss and leverage that moment with Dr. Poison more. Make the general be a normal guy and he gets tangled up in the fight for the plane, so Steve takes him out. Have Diana conclude that Dr. Poison is Ares in disguise, because of course the god of war would be creating new weapons to slaughter more and more people with. And Diana attacks Dr. Poison, and of course she can't fight back and is just getting knocked around and just before Diana crushes her like a bug with that car, she realizes she's not Ares, and hesitates. And that's when Ares makes his entrance, egging her on. And then we proceed from there into the Ares/Diana scenes.
 
hydruxo said:
Shame to see people don't like the WW guitar riff, I thought it was pretty awesome. They used it sparingly in the movie and when it was used I thought it was done really well.
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I loooooved how it was used in this. The film gave her a proper theme and the Zimmer cue was only used when she was kicking ass.
 
anaron said:
I loooooved how it was used in this. The film gave her a proper theme and the Zimmer cue was only used when she was kicking ass.
Click to expand...

I hate that theme independent of its use in the film, but having this electric guitar riff (or cello? Dunno.) come out of nowhere in what had been to that point a pretty traditional, if excellent, period score took me straight out of those action scenes. It's the worst scoring decision I've seen in a film since Ladyhawke.
 
Blackhead said:
i saw this Tuesday at the cheap screening. There were lines forming 30mins early to get in. I guess word of mouth is good (I came because of the RT score). My scattered impressions:

Gal Gadot can't act and that accent took me out of the scene every time.
Gal Gadot does action scenes with aplomb. The use of slow-mo grew on me and even that awkward sliding smashing column gif from the trailer was fine in the context of the film.
Of course she 'falls in love' with the first man she meets. Yes I know it's canon but I personally didn't see any chemistry between this Wonder Woman and Steve Trevor. I was surprised they had 'sex' (or 'made love') and even more surprised when she declared the power of 'love' to win the final battle.
Furthermore the side characters were under developed. I felt nothing when Steve sacrificed himself. The others barely had their own story arcs and I didn't care for them at all. Diana's only momentous interaction with a woman after the first act was to spend hours trying out dresses to please a man wtf?
The mixed messages of the third ac has already been discussed in this thread I see. I agree. Ares did not need to be present in this story
In the broader framing of the DCEU I still barely understand Diana's motivations and actions in BvS and the present day of this film. Is Wonder Woman 2 going to be another flashback?

All in all the film was competently directed and edited ― although, after the horrible MoS, BvS and SS, competency should not be taken for granted ― but quite boring (the only reaction from the crowd in my full theater was some laughter at the obvious 'both frightened and aroused' line). I enjoyed seeing Wonder Woman in action but I still don't care about Diana ― which is how I felt after BvS.
Click to expand...

Thanks, this summed up my feelings pretty close.

Gal is amazing and charismatic in this but her acting and that accent are so jarring.
 
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