NipplesAndToes23
Member
Okay, I watched one of the others videos. That looks much better.
Dragon Ball FighterZ - Gameplay Footage - 60 FPS Direct Feed
- Thread starter Lifejumper
- Start date
Ultimate Gohan with Great Saiyaman outfit or the Kaioshin one, easy
But we're gonna get the usual U. Gohan with dad's gi
the worst dad one
Sorry bruh but it's easier to have Cell Jrs in the game over 17. From a gameplay standpoint they're far more unique given their size and their style compared to 17 and 18 and they're far more important to Gohan's rise compared to 17. I mean it doesn't matter if 17 is an enemy of Trunks, that Piccolo fight was his only major fight and that doesn't stand a candle to Gohan going God Mode on those Cell Jrs. They gotta have Gohan go out a bit.
17 can be DLC or be saved for "Dragon Ball FighterZ: Super Edition" or something.
Raditz over 17, Cell Jr. over Beerus, & Nappa over Whis?
Beerus and Whis will be DLC.
And the Raditz fight is more important than 17's Piccolo fight.
Yall hyping this mans up and he's only got 1 good fight under his belt.
Psychological Intellect
Banned
Hi there. Animator here. and ordinarily you'd be right. You wouldnt NORMALLY have to remodel or touch up every frame in 3d. You'd just let some timeline scrubbing between keyframes cover you on the motions between keyframe poses and then adjust curves to add snappiness.
HOWEVER THIS IS NOT NORMAL 3D THIS IS THE ASW GUILTY GEAR STYLE OF ANIMATION MEANING YOU ARE WRONG THEY NOT ONLY HAVE TO REDO POSES EVERY FRAME BUT ALSO REDO ALL SHADING WORK.
The GG style is unique. Ordinarily you unwrap a model and it looks like an unwrapped football or something. This is an ordinary UV unwrap.
This is a GG model which is how the Dragonball game is doing its amazing graphics.
You see...normally when you unwrap a model and setup shaders you PAINT the areas on the map you want to receive more light or shadow as the model moves in front of or away from light sources and the engine generates the shadows and highlights for you.
ARC SYS SAYS FUCK THAT NOISE.
Arc Sys knows that if you zoom in close enough or that on certain frames the model's lighting will look off and not like an anime. Plus Arc Sys instead uses the NEGATIVE SPACE to generate their hard black lines. instead of actually using a cel shader setup. THEY LITERALLY CUT OUT AND UNWRAP EVERY MUSCLE OR EDGE ON THEIR MODELS AS A SEPERATE UV.
They then go and make those UV's flood fill with solid colors those areas in blocks. Normally if you stretch a UV too far a texture the textures look stretched. But ASW doesn't use textures that way. They try to emulate 2d art by doing color flats first, then shaders, then lines. To get the lines in 3d they tug the UV's to areas with no color and the engine cannot register a texture so it makes them appear Black but as a VECTOR. Not as a normal texture...thats the key. Vector based art never has seems or pixelation no matter how close you get to it so they found a means to take areas with no color to generate black in vector to perfectly recreate the 2d linework that goes into normal art. No matter how the model moves and turns the crease of every muscle will have perfect lines and seems because its generating void as black...or whatever other color they tell the engine per frame which can change.
By doin all that to get perfect lines though they have to chop up everything with a seam into its own UV. That means they have a hard time orgainzing a UV MAP unless they make those areas squares. That makes the UV Map insanely hard to work with at a glance and its time consuming as hell to tweak, but since the colors are all flat and not textures its doable!
However this style of stretched UVs comes at a major cost...ALL REFLECTION AND AND SHADOWS GENERATED BY NORMAL SHADER MAPS DONT WORK RIGHT! Thats right...the maps are stretched so when the light hits the model and it moves the shadows spaz out and look like the kind of stretched to shit textures they are.
THIS IS WHY YOU CAN"T JUST MAKE ANOTHER MODEL IN THIS STYLE. ASW STYLE ANIMATION STILL REQUIRES YOU TO HAND SHADE AND HIGHLIGHT EVERY FRAME OF ANIMATION TO CORRECT THE ISSUES BROUGHT ON WITH THERE UV SETUP THAT WAS CREATED TO GET THE CEL SHADE LINES PERFECT.
Not only that but the ASW team also showed that they did not care for the tween animations created by scrubbing timelines between keyframes. They LITERALLY still go through and repose every single frame of animation they do in 3d to emulate the squash and stretch that goes into 2d animations and since its a 3d model it takes longer to do this way than to simply draw it, because you have to puppeteer every limb per frame.
ASW STYLE CEL SHADE 3D MODELING IS DAMNED NEAR TRIPLE THE WORK. ITS EASILY SIMPLER TO 2D ANIMATE THAN DO WHAT THEY DO.
You learn today. Educate yourself. I've done this shit, I've followed their tutorials and it is a fucking timesink. ASW is not run of the mill cel shading work or 3d animation. They are simply using 3d models as a new way to generate 2d principles and in so doing have gone to insane lengths of work no one else is willing to take on.
HERE. WATCH THE VID THEY DID ON HOW THEY ANIMATE THEIR SHIT IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME AND LEARN WHY THEY CANT JUST POOP OUT 3D ALT MODELS IN THEIR STYLE.
Its lit!
I must be the only one who likes this.
kofvscapcom
Neo Member
I actually really like the no incoming mixup thing. There's no chance of you guessing wrong on the incoming and just die.
The damage in this game is also nuts, Frizas level 3 wakeup super does like 60-70%.
We better get Nappa the grappler in this game. It seems to be Z only so no chance of super 17. I wonder who the final boss is.
The damage in this game is also nuts, Frizas level 3 wakeup super does like 60-70%.
We better get Nappa the grappler in this game. It seems to be Z only so no chance of super 17. I wonder who the final boss is.
DaytimeWhiskey
Banned
Alternate timeline Gohan is best adult Gohan. But it will be Mystic Gohan, and that's almost as good
You don't relegate Beerus, one of the best Dragon Ball
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
I hear what you're saying, and hopefully we're not derailing the thread too much
A couple of points.
You bring up hand shading every frame. You're not really hand shading every frame. Your basically adjusting uvs/verts until the shadowing looks good. It's not like you have to go in there and handpaint. I've done similar things in the past and it's actually really fast to do.
I'm not saying it's easy I'm just saying the time saved not having to sculpt high res models, realistically texture everything and using less frames can be used to polish the animations the way they do.
It's not like he won't have different costumes.
I don't think ASW will take into consideration stuff like plot fights for deciding the roster, unless Bamco specifically told them how the story mode would go. They will probably look at moveset potential and which character would bring more unique things to the roster, and if there's a story mode and its just like the one from Xrd/Rev (although I doubt it'd be like that) then it would matter even less since the player doesn't actually get to play at all during Xrd's story mode, is just a movie.
They gotta save that for the eventual sequel and potential DLC. We can't be putting all these Super characters in when there's gonna be a sequel. Beerus is perfect for that. Same with 17. Nobody is buying DLC or a sequel for a Cell Jr, Nappa and Raditz but they will buy it for Beerus, Whis and 17.
Yeah. It wouldn't surprise me if this game leans more on "original/what-if" stories (not unlike Supersonic Warriors), rather a strict attempt at retelling Z's story again for the umpteenth time.
If Goku doesn't even have a base form, that already does a lot to undermine starting from Raditz, in my opinion. It's also the only way you could feasibly weave in "popular, canon-defying characters" like Bardock and Broly into the story in some way.
Yes. The Kikuchi score would indeed make it amazing.
PancakeBurglar
Member
You trolling? Cell is my favorite dbz villain and even I don't care about Cell Jr. 17 and 18 don't have the same fighting style, it would be pretty disappointing if 17 was left out especially since he's been recently reintroduced back into the current series.
NeonZ
Member
That didn't stop them back with Extreme Butoden. For example, they used Base Cell Saga Gohan for Saiyan and Freeza Saga battles (Vs Nappa, Vs Vegeta, Vs Ginyu/Goku, Vs Freeza) even though that version of Gohan could turn into a SSJ for a finisher which obviously makes no sense storywise.
I'm not arguing in favor of the Cell Jrs though.
Goku is wearing his Battle of Gods gi and there's an arena in space with Earth in the background. It's obvious Beerus will be in the base game at least.
lol non of them are worthy. Mercenary Tao, King Piccolo, Beerus, Zamasu, Black, Merged Zamazu would hopefully all come before movie characters.
I think they removed the background music because Toei keeps flagging the videos which is absolutely hilarious
There's tons of other Super characters you could make DLC. Beerus & Whis, the ones who helped revive Dragon Ball, should at least be in the base roster. And who's to say they should bother with Cell Jr, Nappa or Raditz at all?
Psychological Intellect
Banned
I'd love Gohan with the Kai outfit or Piccolo outfit.
Aaronrules380
Member
I personally think Beerus will make base roster, but I don't think whis will
Definitely not trolling. 17 is best saved for DLC or the sequel. Like I said, nobody is buying a sequel or DLC for Raditz, Nappa or Cell Jr. They will buy that for 17 though. People want all these big namers in the game day 1 without looking for the future. Don't tell me you think they won't be having DLC or a sequel after this. We know how these companies work.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I think what they are doing in DBF is a little simpler, at the very least the character models look more like 3D models than the Xrd ones.Hi there. Animator here. and ordinarily you'd be right. You wouldnt NORMALLY have to remodel or touch up every frame in 3d. You'd just let some timeline scrubbing between keyframes cover you on the motions between keyframe poses and then adjust curves to add snappiness.
HOWEVER THIS IS NOT NORMAL 3D THIS IS THE ASW GUILTY GEAR STYLE OF ANIMATION MEANING YOU ARE WRONG THEY NOT ONLY HAVE TO REDO POSES EVERY FRAME BUT ALSO REDO ALL SHADING WORK.
The GG style is unique. Ordinarily you unwrap a model and it looks like an unwrapped football or something. This is an ordinary UV unwrap.
This is a GG model which is how the Dragonball game is doing its amazing graphics.
You see...normally when you unwrap a model and setup shaders you PAINT the areas on the map you want to receive more light or shadow as the model moves in front of or away from light sources and the engine generates the shadows and highlights for you.
ARC SYS SAYS FUCK THAT NOISE.
Arc Sys knows that if you zoom in close enough or that on certain frames the model's lighting will look off and not like an anime. Plus Arc Sys instead uses the NEGATIVE SPACE to generate their hard black lines. instead of actually using a cel shader setup. THEY LITERALLY CUT OUT AND UNWRAP EVERY MUSCLE OR EDGE ON THEIR MODELS AS A SEPERATE UV.
They then go and make those UV's flood fill with solid colors those areas in blocks. Normally if you stretch a UV too far a texture the textures look stretched. But ASW doesn't use textures that way. They try to emulate 2d art by doing color flats first, then shaders, then lines. To get the lines in 3d they tug the UV's to areas with no color and the engine cannot register a texture so it makes them appear Black but as a VECTOR. Not as a normal texture...thats the key. Vector based art never has seems or pixelation no matter how close you get to it so they found a means to take areas with no color to generate black in vector to perfectly recreate the 2d linework that goes into normal art. No matter how the model moves and turns the crease of every muscle will have perfect lines and seems because its generating void as black...or whatever other color they tell the engine per frame which can change.
By doin all that to get perfect lines though they have to chop up everything with a seam into its own UV. That means they have a hard time orgainzing a UV MAP unless they make those areas squares. That makes the UV Map insanely hard to work with at a glance and its time consuming as hell to tweak, but since the colors are all flat and not textures its doable!
However this style of stretched UVs comes at a major cost...ALL REFLECTION AND AND SHADOWS GENERATED BY NORMAL SHADER MAPS DONT WORK RIGHT! Thats right...the maps are stretched so when the light hits the model and it moves the shadows spaz out and look like the kind of stretched to shit textures they are.
THIS IS WHY YOU CAN"T JUST MAKE ANOTHER MODEL IN THIS STYLE. ASW STYLE ANIMATION STILL REQUIRES YOU TO HAND SHADE AND HIGHLIGHT EVERY FRAME OF ANIMATION TO CORRECT THE ISSUES BROUGHT ON WITH THERE UV SETUP THAT WAS CREATED TO GET THE CEL SHADE LINES PERFECT.
Not only that but the ASW team also showed that they did not care for the tween animations created by scrubbing timelines between keyframes. They LITERALLY still go through and repose every single frame of animation they do in 3d to emulate the squash and stretch that goes into 2d animations and since its a 3d model it takes longer to do this way than to simply draw it, because you have to puppeteer every limb per frame.
ASW STYLE CEL SHADE 3D MODELING IS DAMNED NEAR TRIPLE THE WORK. ITS EASILY SIMPLER TO 2D ANIMATE THAN DO WHAT THEY DO.
You learn today. Educate yourself. I've done this shit, I've followed their tutorials and it is a fucking timesink. ASW is not run of the mill cel shading work or 3d animation. They are simply using 3d models as a new way to generate 2d principles and in so doing have gone to insane lengths of work no one else is willing to take on.
HERE. WATCH THE VID THEY DID ON HOW THEY ANIMATE THEIR SHIT IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME AND LEARN WHY THEY CANT JUST POOP OUT 3D ALT MODELS IN THEIR STYLE.
Even if what they are doing is simpler, it's probably still way more complex than regular models.
I'd be somewhat fine with Whis being DLC, but we should at least get Universe 7's God of Destruction on Day 1.
Aaronrules380
Member
I imagine dlc and sequels will work more super and even gt chars in rather than what you're suggesting
FusedAtoms
Member
Wow it's very clear that a lot of work goes into it but Jesus I didn't expect that much , it produces a beautiful product. Thanks for the info!Hi there. Animator here. and ordinarily you'd be right. You wouldnt NORMALLY have to remodel or touch up every frame in 3d. You'd just let some timeline scrubbing between keyframes cover you on the motions between keyframe poses and then adjust curves to add snappiness.
HOWEVER THIS IS NOT NORMAL 3D THIS IS THE ASW GUILTY GEAR STYLE OF ANIMATION MEANING YOU ARE WRONG THEY NOT ONLY HAVE TO REDO POSES EVERY FRAME BUT ALSO REDO ALL SHADING WORK.
The GG style is unique. Ordinarily you unwrap a model and it looks like an unwrapped football or something. This is an ordinary UV unwrap.
This is a GG model which is how the Dragonball game is doing its amazing graphics.
You see...normally when you unwrap a model and setup shaders you PAINT the areas on the map you want to receive more light or shadow as the model moves in front of or away from light sources and the engine generates the shadows and highlights for you.
ARC SYS SAYS FUCK THAT NOISE.
Arc Sys knows that if you zoom in close enough or that on certain frames the model's lighting will look off and not like an anime. Plus Arc Sys instead uses the NEGATIVE SPACE to generate their hard black lines. instead of actually using a cel shader setup. THEY LITERALLY CUT OUT AND UNWRAP EVERY MUSCLE OR EDGE ON THEIR MODELS AS A SEPERATE UV.
They then go and make those UV's flood fill with solid colors those areas in blocks. Normally if you stretch a UV too far a texture the textures look stretched. But ASW doesn't use textures that way. They try to emulate 2d art by doing color flats first, then shaders, then lines. To get the lines in 3d they tug the UV's to areas with no color and the engine cannot register a texture so it makes them appear Black but as a VECTOR. Not as a normal texture...thats the key. Vector based art never has seems or pixelation no matter how close you get to it so they found a means to take areas with no color to generate black in vector to perfectly recreate the 2d linework that goes into normal art. No matter how the model moves and turns the crease of every muscle will have perfect lines and seems because its generating void as black...or whatever other color they tell the engine per frame which can change.
By doin all that to get perfect lines though they have to chop up everything with a seam into its own UV. That means they have a hard time orgainzing a UV MAP unless they make those areas squares. That makes the UV Map insanely hard to work with at a glance and its time consuming as hell to tweak, but since the colors are all flat and not textures its doable!
However this style of stretched UVs comes at a major cost...ALL REFLECTION AND AND SHADOWS GENERATED BY NORMAL SHADER MAPS DONT WORK RIGHT! Thats right...the maps are stretched so when the light hits the model and it moves the shadows spaz out and look like the kind of stretched to shit textures they are.
THIS IS WHY YOU CAN"T JUST MAKE ANOTHER MODEL IN THIS STYLE. ASW STYLE ANIMATION STILL REQUIRES YOU TO HAND SHADE AND HIGHLIGHT EVERY FRAME OF ANIMATION TO CORRECT THE ISSUES BROUGHT ON WITH THERE UV SETUP THAT WAS CREATED TO GET THE CEL SHADE LINES PERFECT.
Not only that but the ASW team also showed that they did not care for the tween animations created by scrubbing timelines between keyframes. They LITERALLY still go through and repose every single frame of animation they do in 3d to emulate the squash and stretch that goes into 2d animations and since its a 3d model it takes longer to do this way than to simply draw it, because you have to puppeteer every limb per frame.
ASW STYLE CEL SHADE 3D MODELING IS DAMNED NEAR TRIPLE THE WORK. ITS EASILY SIMPLER TO 2D ANIMATE THAN DO WHAT THEY DO.
You learn today. Educate yourself. I've done this shit, I've followed their tutorials and it is a fucking timesink. ASW is not run of the mill cel shading work or 3d animation. They are simply using 3d models as a new way to generate 2d principles and in so doing have gone to insane lengths of work no one else is willing to take on.
HERE. WATCH THE VID THEY DID ON HOW THEY ANIMATE THEIR SHIT IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME AND LEARN WHY THEY CANT JUST POOP OUT 3D ALT MODELS IN THEIR STYLE.
That's actually what I'm suggesting. This will mostly be Z. The DLC and sequels will be Super because that's actually where 17 and these other Super characters flesh out a bit.
You're putting so much emphasis on Super rather than Z tbh. It makes sense to get Z out of the way for the most part and then deal with the Super stuff. That's an issue I have with a lot of this talk, it's like most think it'll be a mostly Super game when really it doesn't appear that way. Leave most of the Super content for DLC and sequels and get Z out of the way first.
/s = sarcasm for future note.
You realize there is an on going show right ? There will ALWAYS be new content.
Not having 17 18 16 or 17 18 Krilin for Super in a game that features 3v3 and 3 persons team is giving fans the finger.
The sequel can have all the new Super characters like Kale, and whatever new arc happens next year.
Plus, fighting 17 and 18 is far more iconic for Future Trunks than whatever Gohan did to cell Jr.
Aaronrules380
Member
17 is z char though. As is Beerus technically
ArchedThunder
Banned
Honestly his base hair in this game looks worse than most 3D games.
They're just 2 characters (3 if you count OP 17), two who are massively important to Dragon Ball as a franchise. We should at least get Beerus on Day 1.
There's enough content from the current and ongoing Universe Survival arc ALONE that would more than warrant an expansion/sequel in itself.
You got people already hankering for the likes of the two female Saiyans from U6, Kale and Cauliflower, and those characters just got introduced a manner of two-three weeks ago. Clearly, there's not going to be any danger of content that Arc can pull from.
Takamura-San
Member
Gimme Yamcha with Kamikaze super saiba men and this game is life.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
wat
ArchedThunder
Banned
Mr. Nice_Guy
Member
damn damn damn
I just...don't even have words I'm so happy.