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[LSauchelli]

Cute callback. That's the kind of stuff that's nice to see, when it isn't so blatant.

Totally. If it had Grandpa Gohan had showed up, even as a flashback, it would have been way too forced. I like how this is just Goku having a moment, however small, remembering the last time he saw the person that raised him to be good.

What are 17 and 18 then though? I know Gero is a cyborg more or less, 16 and 19 are fully mechanical androids, but 17 and 18 are ambiguous as far as I know. I know the general conscious now is that they're genetically modified, but is this confirmed?

Their enhancements are biological, so they can't really be "Cyborgs" as the term is commonly used. That's the reason why Cell needed them to reach his perfect stage.

 

[Big One]

Android 17 and 18 have bombs in them, so a part of their being is mechanical as well. They're both mechanical and biological. The biological aspect is probably what allows Cell to transform. Android 16 is pure mechanical as is Android 19.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Gero is a bit of semantics, he was A founder and was "effectively in control" per AT.

As far as I know the Japanese version never said he was a founder or in control, he was just the chief scientist and carried on their name after Goku destroyed them.

 

[The Silver]

As far as I know the Japanese version never said he was a founder or in control, he was just the chief scientist and carried on their name after Goku destroyed them.

AT said it in an interview

 

[Solid Sora]

17 and 18's enhancements are biological, yes this is confirmed, right from the mouth of Toriyama.

I guess this was a bad translation then?

 

[Slaythe]

Android 17 and 18 have bombs in them, so a part of their being is mechanical as well. They're both mechanical and biological. The biological aspect is probably what allows Cell to transform. Android 16 is pure mechanical as is Android 19.

The bombs was removed from them though.

Bulma mentioned they had very tiny mechanical parts and that they enhancements were biological and organic.

The mechanical parts were the remote circuit and the bomb.

 

[ArchedThunder]

AT said it in an interview

Can you find it?

 

[The Silver]

Can you find it?

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/db-full-color-artificial-humans-cell-arc-01/

 

[ArchedThunder]

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/db-full-color-artificial-humans-cell-arc-01/

Oh, so it's a somewhat recent thing that I missed. Fair enough.

 

[LSauchelli]

I guess this was a bad translation then?

I'm not sure regarding how good the translation is, but characters can be wrong. Or maybe Bio-organic enhancements count for a "cyborg" in Krillin's eyes.

There's also this:

As Slaythe said, the "tiny mechanical parts" were their weak points, which was tied to the bomb, so maybe those are further enhancements, or maybe they're just designed to make the bomb explode.

As well as some comments by Toriyama that make it clear that 17 and 18 are not really cyborgs in the sense 8 and 20 are.

Also, with 18's recent comment that Marron is tougher than she looks, and 17 showing Goku his kid, only for the audience to not see him, I think it's very likely that they inherited (some of?) their enhancements.

 

[The Silver]

I'm not sure regarding how good the translation is, but characters can be wrong. Or maybe Bio-organic enhancements count for a "cyborg" in Krillin's eyes.

There's also this:

As Slaythe said, the "tiny mechanical parts" were their weak points, which was tied to the bomb, so maybe those are further enhancements, or maybe they're just designed to make the bomb explode.

i took that to be referring to the shutdown mechanism, not the bomb

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think Goku should have won the fights they did of him against Superman.

Naw bruh. Not to dredge up the old debate, but even if you find their research suspect, Superman's feats in the comics are still so absurd Goku never really stood a chance.

 

[HardRojo]

To save people the click

Oh man this totally flew over my head. The feels :'(

 

[Skeeter49]

I need to rewatch the Gohan vs. GOKU fight in DB.

 

[Slaythe]

It's kind of sad that the only person Goku really loved, his grandpa, was never seen again.

 

[ArchedThunder]

It's kind of sad that the only person Goku really loved, his grandpa, was never seen again.

RIP in peace G-Pa

 

[L Thammy]

So I have a question for the Canadian fans here. I was looking up old versions of websites for the fun of it, and in one of the saved snapshots of one of our children's TV providers, I found this string of text:



From a quick check, this seemed to happen either around or before February 1998, and the episode they stop on is the Bubbles training episode. The odd number and stopping point give me pause that this ever happened, though. Do any of the Canadian fans remember watching Z on Teletoon?

Pretty sure that I watched it on YTV, and I don't know if Teletoon existed at that time. Maybe I just didn't get access to it until much later. I also feel like if it was on Teletoon it would have been much later.

 

[Kagari]

It's kind of sad that the only person Goku really loved, his grandpa, was never seen again.

I would argue he loves his kids.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

"Gero, founder and lead scientist of the Red Ribbon Army."
Nope.

"They're actually cyborgs."
Also nope.

"It's also possible for her to absorb her enemy's energy."
Not it isn't.

I'm guessing they used Dragon Ball Wiki for their research.

I mean their target audience is like young teens im guessing, they wont care as long as theres characters fighting and killing each other

I would argue he loves his kids.

about as much as my dad who i havent seen in years maybe

 

[Slaythe]

I would argue he loves his kids.

He had to think hard to remember Gohan when Vegeta suggested "his son" ...........

 

[Kagari]

He had to think hard to remember Gohan when Vegeta suggested "his son" ...........

That scene aside, he's always been really supportive of Gohan at least. Especially in the original series.

 

[L Thammy]

It's kind of sad that the only person Goku really loved, his grandpa, was never seen again.

He also never got to apologize to his grandpa for killing him, his grandpa never got to see that his adopted son became a grandpa himself.. see, this is why I think we need to see Grandpa Gohan again! At least one more time.

Also, with 18's recent comment that Marron is tougher than she looks, and 17 showing Goku his kid, only for the audience to not see him, I think it's very likely that they inherited (some of?) their enhancements.

Can I just say, I'm hyped for this.

 

[ArchedThunder]

He had to think hard to remember Gohan when Vegeta suggested "his son" ...........

I think it was more that he just thought that Vegeta was talking about Goten because that was who was right there.

 

[Genryu]

I would argue he loves his kids.

They say if you truly love something, you have to force them to fight a genocidal bio-weapon.

 

[L Thammy]

Normally, Saiyans don’t have much of a notion of romance or marriage, and apart from the royal family of Vegeta, they aren’t particular about blood-relationships. Being in among all that, I suppose you could say that the pair of Bardock and Gine were those rare Saiyans who were joined by a bond other than for the purpose of reproduction.

Toriyama:
Goku isn’t interested in child-rearing, probably. He’s completely unqualified to be a father. (laughs) He doesn’t even have a job. Goku wants nothing other than to get stronger, and it feels like he doesn’t have any other instincts. So he shows absolutely no interest in things he’s not interested in. I’d bet he wouldn’t have had any interest in marriage, either.

 

[FStubbs]

dunno superman but at least the Flash would be easily defeated by any guy with a sword and some way of predicting what Flash would do

say, Zoro

thank Identity Crisis where a normal guy stabbed the Flash

And this happened to Superman once:

 

[Kagari]

Normally, Saiyans don’t have much of a notion of romance or marriage, and apart from the royal family of Vegeta, they aren’t particular about blood-relationships. Being in among all that, I suppose you could say that the pair of Bardock and Gine were those rare Saiyans who were joined by a bond other than for the purpose of reproduction.

Toriyama:
Goku isn’t interested in child-rearing, probably. He’s completely unqualified to be a father. (laughs) He doesn’t even have a job. Goku wants nothing other than to get stronger, and it feels like he doesn’t have any other instincts. So he shows absolutely no interest in things he’s not interested in. I’d bet he wouldn’t have had any interest in marriage, either.

He says that but I don't really feel that way when I read his work!

 

[Genryu]

And this happened to Superman once:

To be fair, there is some context to that image. You wouldn't see a normal Alfred be able to beat Superman down like that.

 

[BigDes]

Yeah but to be fair Alfred will butle the fuck out of anyone.

 

[Slaythe]

That scene aside, he's always been really supportive of Gohan at least. Especially in the original series.

We're two episodes away from him being supportive of Frieza at this point.

 

[The Silver]

It's pretty amazing Gohan turned out as well as he did, Ginyu Force related posing trauma aside.

 

[Mister Wolf]

"Gero, founder and lead scientist of the Red Ribbon Army."
Nope.

"They're actually cyborgs."
Also nope.

"It's also possible for her to absorb her enemy's energy."
Not it isn't.

I'm guessing they used Dragon Ball Wiki for their research.

How are they not cyborgs?

 

[Slaythe]

How are they not cyborgs?

Because while they technically could be, saying they are cyborg implies they receive their strength from their mechanical parts.

They don't. The mechanical parts were added afterwards, the circuit for the remote to make them sleep and the bomb.

Their power is entirely from biological enhancements.

They are artificial, but not mechanical. Therefore saying they are cyborgs is sending the wrong idea.

Just like you wouldn't call someone with a pacemaker a cyborg.

 

[ArchedThunder]

How are they not cyborgs?

Look at the last page, their enhancements are bio-organic.

 

[Mister Wolf]

I see. So bio enhanced humans would be the best description.

 

[Romars202129]

To be honest, cyborgs sounds like a much more accurate description than artificial humans. Superhumans seems like the only correct description.

 

[L Thammy]

We're all going to be Jinzo Ningen in a couple years. I've already picked my number (#88).

 

[ArchedThunder]

We're all going to be Jinzo Ningen in a couple years. I've already picked my number (#88).

Can we all agree to not talk to #69?

 

[Mister Wolf]

To be honest, cyborgs sounds like a much more accurate description than artificial humans. Superhumans seems like the only correct description.

Yeah. Calling them androids or artificial makes zero sense.

 

[Eylos]

Super doping

 

[Style]

I hope the production studio doesn't look at the ratings of the last episode and think "they want more Freeza!", leading to even more shoe horning of him. >_>

 

[L Thammy]

Can we all agree to not talk to #69?

I'm pretty sure #666999 will be the worst.

 

[Slaythe]

I hope the production studio doesn't look at the ratings of the last episode and think "they want more Freeza!", leading to even more shoe horning of him. >_>

The ratings up to that point were extremely low, so if Frieza allows us to keep the varied cast, I'll take it.

Reminder that the piccolo gohan episode was the lowest in the entire series. (DB, DBZ, GT, Super)

So I'll take more Frieza if we can keep gohan 17 18 Krilin etc.. being relevant.

 

[Style]

The ratings up to that point were extremely low, so if Frieza allows us to keep the varied cast, I'll take it.

Reminder that the piccolo gohan episode was the lowest in the entire series. (DB, DBZ, GT, Super)

So I'll take more Frieza if we can keep gohan 17 18 Krilin etc.. being relevant.

I've been calling it for a while, End Of Z is going to be rewritten so Goku flies off with Freeza instead of Uub.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

It's pretty amazing Gohan turned out as well as he did, Ginyu Force related posing trauma aside.

He had piccolo

 

[Kagari]

The ratings don't really matter. It's all about the merchandise sales.

 

[Slaythe]

The ratings don't really matter. It's all about the merchandise sales.

Of course, but there's a limit. if the ratings keep dropping it's not good. If it passes One Piece that's a big deal too.

 

[caliph95]

I've been calling it for a while, End Of Z is going to be rewritten so Goku flies off with Freeza instead of Uub.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/BeC2WnF.jpg[/IMG]

 

[Kagari]

Of course, but there's a limit. if the ratings keep dropping it's not good. If it passes One Piece that's a big deal too.

I don't think Toei is too worried since DB is such a huge money maker for them these days.

 

[Astral Dog]

Reviving Frieza and make join him to the main cast is one of the best things about Super