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UK General Election 2017 |OT2| No Government is better than a bad Government
- Thread starter Jezbollah
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By trying to link it here people might have unfortunately clicked on it and given them a page view. Just don't do it. Ignore it at all costs
By trying to link it here people might have unfortunately clicked on it and given them a page view. Just don't do it. Ignore it at all costs
it's impossible to access the site directly from here, so that wouldn't work
@Britainelects
Leaving the EU without a mutually agreed deal would be...
Good for Britain: 31%
Bad for Britain: 58%
(via @Survation, 16-17 Jun)
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/876428393151070212
31% are fucking idiots
Leaving the EU without a mutually agreed deal would be...
Good for Britain: 31%
Bad for Britain: 58%
(via @Survation, 16-17 Jun)
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/876428393151070212
31% are fucking idiots
It's horrifying that a third of the country is still that deluded.
The other 11% were unavailable to answer the question through merit of laughing and crying at the other 31%
HOW IS NO DEAL GOOD FOR US YOU DENSE MOTHERFUCKERS
Suprised it's only 31% tbh.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Can't put a price on pride. Or control.
That and renovating empty and derelict housing too. Any that have been empty for years turn into new social housing. Some places have entire streets empty. Going through some parts of Liverpool is nuts.
frankie_baby
Member
Havent there been schemes in Liverpool where they've had to give houses away on the condition they're done up?
Royal_Phalanx
Member
On the bright side the level of delusion has decreased since the election.
Yep. This article about it is from 2015, and I imagine it's still ongoing. It's not a perfect solution, as you need to have a decent amount of money stashed away to actually get the houses back in use, but it's better than leaving them to rot I suppose.
ferrasvansen
Member
I think given that hard brexiteers got beaten up on Election Day, I think the tide has turned even my sister has accepted hard brexit would be a disaster. Given how much the right wing press is now frowned upon and the laughing stock after the election attacks on Corbyn they just don't hold the weight they once did. We need a sensible deal, good for both sides and limiting the damage, or the kickback at the next election will make the last one seem tame.
Ah I dunno - I threw out L'pool just as an example of somewhere I've seen entire streets boarded up.
In moderation, sure, there is nothing wrong with housing as investment. But that's the problem with our current state of capitalism - there's no such thing as moderation. If something "works" everyone wants to keep doing it, from the middle-class who see it as their path to security, to funds worth billions.
And I'm not using this as some battle-cry for socialism. Property redevelopment is like a black hole for capital in this country - and is having an adverse effect on so many other forms of investment (yes, I'm over-simplifying a very complex issue here). It's one of the reasons our start-up culture is so shite - why take these higher risk punts when you can get a near-guaranteed moderate return elsewhere. It's becoming way too common a sight to see friends and acquaintances funding pulled due to "uncertain times", only to have the same people throw their money into a Shoreditch block under a different fund name.
It's just further enabling our all-eggs-in-one-basket style economy which is putting the security of this country at risk.
Damn...I thought the gov made it clear that they'd be rehoused in the borough or at the very least in other parts of London. I can't say I am surprised though. As soon as it was clear that the tower was beyond recovery, I had a feeling that the people who escaped were unlikely to be able to continue living as Londoners.
JonnyDBrit
Member
It's what Alok Sharma, the new housing minister and my local MP, promised. Looks like they're merely 'trying' to, and once it inevitably doesn't work, they go for whatever they can find cheap, no matter how far.
Wouldn't be suprised if they sanction people for refusing homes too far away.
JonnyDBrit
Member
Oh, it's standard practice. Homeless and offered a job too far away to either be comfortable or even feasible to actually move to? Well, you refused their offer, therefore you have intentionally decided to be homeless - at which point they have no more obligation to help you.
Why yes, it's a shitty practice.
Alright. Even though we have decades of evidence that forcing residents to leave their home communities would have horrible knock-on effects on their well-being and ability to prosper in society. For example, when New Yorkers moved into new public housing after World War II, they lost connections to their old neighborhoods and neighbors, and the quality of life in these tower blocks duly declined. Even though the housing was better, their lives weren't necessarily improved, and my hometown is still ravaged by the consequences of forced resettlement.
It really feels like we need to resurrect Barbara Tuchman and ask her to write about our mistakes. I remember how she wrote about the rise of democratic socialism at the turn of the 20th century, and it hinged on a basic understanding: poverty is not the fault of the poor. I'm distressed that we have to religitate this point, both in my America and your Britain. This isn't their fault. They didn't burn down their houses to move into luxury flats or commit fraud against the state. But this reaction is punitive. It breaks a core component of the social compact: a village takes care of its own and cares for itself by extension. This punishes people for surviving a disaster made possible by the ignorance of local government. I'm sure Theresa May will eloquently discuss this horrible problem the next the the BBC interviews her, right?
Hope you enjoyed the feel-good moment between residents and emergency services, because it's about to end shortly if this becomes the common response.
Remember when govt services actually helped instead of punished you? Long time ago now
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
Tuchman was incredible.
Yeah, I don't​ think it [re-housing in London] is gonna happen; I mean there are people that have been waiting for years for a council home, so the idea that these people would be re-homed in London within three weeks was bs from the beginning imo. It won't go down well with the surviving residents of Grenfell though. This will be the final blow; everything that was familiar and dear to them gone within a space of a week.
This policy is going to backfire spectacularly.
Lots of people won't accept the offer and will remain in the temporary shelters and then we will get a scandal of people homeless for weeks/months after the incident.
Usually the council can bully people to accept or get stuffed because no one cares about a single unlucky person or family. When there are hundreds of people who have already suffered it won't stand. It will be constant news, pressure will build and polices will have to be changed.
QuicheFontaine
Member
I think you mean the Hated Garden Tax
The homeless shelters are criminally overpriced too. It's 500 quid every two weeks here, insanity.
JonnyDBrit
Member
Especially when those people aren't just blind faces in the background of society. They're the victims of the worst tragedy in British history since the Hillsborough disaster, and potentially since the 1950s. A disaster brought on by the very party that is now asking them to relocate to whole other parts of the country. They will be hard to make go away.
Her The Proud Tower was revelatory for me. European history was a dry subject in school, but her training made it jump off the page. She even made Middle Age French court intrigue interesting in another book.
(I also thought she made a good point about the 'strange death of Liberal England' when she covered Parliament in the first decade of the 1900s. It wasn't so odd: the working class didn't want to vote for their bosses. But Liberal and Conservative MPs of that period were very much businessmen, much like MPs are today. When Labour became a real alternative, they responded with that in mind, I felt.)
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
In days gone by the strategy would be to lay the blame squarely at the victims feet through the power of the media and the police.
Fortunately we now live in a world where this is impossible.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
A Distant Mirror is my particular favourite but I consider her something of an authority on anything she wrote about.
JonathanEx
Member
Actual Lib Dem news, Swinton isn't running for leader, but will for the created-for-her deputy role.
Cable/Lamb/Possibly Davey as current contenders.
https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/876462833424314369
Cable/Lamb/Possibly Davey as current contenders.
https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/876462833424314369
Good I hate Swinson with a passion.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I was hoping she'd get in as a necessary evil. As an Orange Booker, she might have been able to pick off the Conservative votes that Labour can't really get.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
If leavers were intelligent, they wouldn't be leavers.
Fair point, the fact orange bookers haven't been disowned following 2015 is incredible to me.
Really hated Swinson because she spoke out both sides of her mouth about the coalition.
PJV3
Member
I can't see them working with Labour though, I still don't see a majority happening.
They're itching to get back into bed with Tories. They miss their jags 😭
PJV3
Member
Oh well, we can finally wipe out what is left of the party then, I will not vote again for Davey.
Theonik
Member
I was thinking about the Tory promise to end austerity earlier and finally remembered which Spitting Image sketch it reminded me of. Time really is a flat circle.
I guarantee part of the reason Farron went was because of his no Tory coalition pledge. Now they'll spend the next election fluffying up Tories.
Huw_Dawson
Member
It's very hard to place Swinson - the Orange Book didn't spend a great deal of time on women and feminism, and it is on that latter topic she is best known internally.
Her article confirming her intention to stand as Deputy Leader is here:
http://www.libdemvoice.org/jo-swinson-mp-writes-54646.html
Of note is that she actually wanted Farron to stay on.
Anyway - my judgement was always that whoever out of Cable and Swinson confirmed they'd be going for the Deputy Leader role first would decide the actions of the other. The way is pretty clear for Cable to go for the leadership now.
Davey won't be leader. Out of the three remaining likely candidates:
Cable -> Wrote for the Orange Book. An advocate of building a new centrist party in the centre of British politics (and likes a lot of Labour's London people, like Rupa Huq). Probably wouldn't see through a five year term due to his age.
Lamb -> Lost already, abstained on A50 vote. Strong on health and care issues, but seriously lacks charisma.
Davey -> Wrote for the Orange Book. The most ambitious of the three. Probably the least interesting of the three.
Yes,yes shoot yourself in the foot you idiots.
LordRaptor
Member
Some people don't understand that "No deal" is a fucking bad deal, and think "no deal is better than a bad deal" is some kind of alternative
PJV3
Member
If they start mentioning the National interest then we know it's about to happen. Farron had it right, stay independent and vote for what they agree with.
I will be really gutted if they repeat the mistake, I had a long conversation with the labour candidate about the risk of getting done over by them again.
It doesn't exactly help our Prime Minister is spouting this BS
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
I just had a thought. Remember how Wales was supposed to lose its over-representation, from 40 seats down to 29?
Remember than the Welsh Assembly has fewer powers than the Scottish Parliament though and no reduction may make sense, or not, that's not my point.
My point is the election was called before that had a chance to happen, and instead of 29 seats between 3 or 4 parties (along with a reduction in seats across the UK), 28 Welsh seats went to Labour alone at this election.
The question is if that over-representation will continue. If not, then Labour will lose a boost from its strongest constituent country as it will be hit disproportionately hard if there is a reduction in the number of MP's.
Remember than the Welsh Assembly has fewer powers than the Scottish Parliament though and no reduction may make sense, or not, that's not my point.
My point is the election was called before that had a chance to happen, and instead of 29 seats between 3 or 4 parties (along with a reduction in seats across the UK), 28 Welsh seats went to Labour alone at this election.
The question is if that over-representation will continue. If not, then Labour will lose a boost from its strongest constituent country as it will be hit disproportionately hard if there is a reduction in the number of MP's.
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