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[SteveWD40]

He will compromise but will just speak out both sides of his mouth like nothing happened.

Worth noting he had had hits nuts clipped by way of them sacking / forcing out members of his team. Along with Remainer MP's being elevated and Hammond and the Tory elder statesman (Hauge, Major) all talking about interim positions etc...

 

[*Splinter]

No one is being deported.

 

[Micael]

How would someone like the PM of Poland break that news to their citizens? "Sorry you got deported and your life uprooted. Btw, Brits can still come to Poland with full freedoms".

Not sensible.

It is extremely unlikely that the UK would deport people, that would pretty much guarantee that they would get WTO into oblivion, since any deal has to be agreed by all countries, and good luck getting a deal passed through if you are deporting the citizens of those countries.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

I was born an EU citizen and I want to keep the right to remain one. I'd pay money even though I'm pretty sure I'll always stay in Scotland. Just in case.

 

[cartesian]

All I'm going to say is when this is all said and done, anyone who admits to voting leave best do so with full knowledge that they rend their life forfeit.

What a ridiculous thing to say. Do you plan on enforcing this forfeiture personally?

 

[autumnleaf]

How would someone like the PM of Poland break that news to their citizens? "Sorry you got deported and your life uprooted. Btw, Brits can still come to Poland with full freedoms".

Not sensible.

Don't think anyone is getting deported. Securing the rights of existing citizens will be one of the first things they do.

 

[Theonik]

No, saying Brexiters should have fewer rights than remainers is vindictive.

Hell it's only intended as a punishment, so why stop there? Why don't we start throwing people in jail for voting wrong?

Charge Tories extra tax to cover the corporate tax breaks.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

No one is being deported.

How about Polish folks who want to come into the UK. That's incredibly unfair, you must see this.
In no way should Brits be given EU rights if the same rights don't exist for its citizens.

The only sensible way around this is to allow individuals of both sides pay for freedom of movement, similar to how they pay for the EU budget.

 

[*Splinter]

How about Polish folks who want to come into the UK. That's incredibly unfair, you must see this.
In no way should Brits be given EU rights if the same rights don't exist for its citizens.

The only sensible way around this is to allow individuals of both sides pay for freedom of movement, similar to how they pay for the EU budget.

Of course that would be unfair, who is disagreeing with this?

I don't think we will be offered EU passports because - as you said - we won't be offering British passports to EU citizens.

The part of your post I objected to is where you said that even if we could get EU passports we would have to find a way to stop Brexiters from getting them.

 

[killer_clank]

Who's getting extra rights? The continued EU citizenship with payment idea is highly unlikely to happen imo, and any future immigration rules will in all likelihood be reciprocal between countries (though whether immigration rules will be set by UK-EU or U.K. And individual EU countries is up for negotiation (I'm guessing they'll agree to EU wide ones)

Seems kind of weird we're having this debate over something not very likely.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Charge Tories extra tax to cover the corporate tax breaks.

Tories already pay more tax anyway - the top decile of earners contributes around 60% of the total income tax take, and they're more likely to be Tories.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Of course that would be unfair, who is disagreeing with this?

I don't think we will be offered EU passports because - as you said - we won't be offering British passports to EU citizens.

The part of your post I objected to is where you said that even if we could get EU passports we would have to find a way to stop Brexiters from getting them.

If someone who is a brexiter is paying for their freedom of movement, then that's fine honestly. The only thing I was objecting to was potentially giving those rights to brexiters and denying those rights to EU citizens.

 

[Lego Boss]

Tories already pay more tax anyway - the top decile of earners contributes around 60% of the total income tax take, and they're more likely to be Tories.

Apart from the obvious tax dodges that they undertake to maintain their esteemed position.

 

[kmag]

Interesting. The City State of London then? Or would everything just be shifted to Jersey / Guernsey / IoM?

Ooh Carney with the claws

“Depending on whether and when any transition arrangement can be agreed, firms on either side of the channel may soon need to activate contingency plans.

“Before long, we will all begin to find out the extent to which Brexit is a gentle stroll along a smooth path to a land of cake and consumption.”

 

[Spaghetti]

Mark Carney - "Monetary policy cannot prevent the weaker real income growth likely to accompany the transition to new trading arrangements with the EU."

Via The Guardian

Guess we'll all have to tighten our belts and stop buying avocados.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Ooh Carney with the claws

I never liked Carney. He always seems to be talking down the economy.

 

[War Peaceman]

I never liked Carney. He always seems to be talking down the economy.

it doesn't surprise me that a leave voter would dislike an expert

 

[GrizzleBoy]

I never liked Carney. He always seems to be talking down the economy.

What's with leave voters always talking down on ur experts?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

No, saying Brexiters should have fewer rights than remainers is vindictive.

Hell it's only intended as a punishment, so why stop there? Why don't we start throwing people in jail for voting wrong?

That is what they voted for though. It's not vindictive to give them what they want and to give remainers who can't leave before 2019 what they want.

 

[CCS]

Mark Carney is possibly the most competent central banker there is.

 

[HazySaiyan]

What's with leave voters always talking down on ur experts?

We're tired of experts!

 

[Khoryos]

I never liked Carney. He always seems to be talking down the economy.

Just a theory, here, but that might be because the economy is hard fucked?

 

[Theonik]

Tories already pay more tax anyway - the top decile of earners contributes around 60% of the total income tax take, and they're more likely to be Tories.

That is how progressive taxation works yes. I meant a higher rate to offset the loss of revenue from lowering taxes.

 

[KarneeKarnay]

Does anyone remember the tv show The Thick of It?

Well now that Peter Capaldi is done with the Doctor, do you think we should get another go at the show?

I actually think the show was so accurate a depiction of British Politics, that if the last two years had appeared on that show, the show would have been criticized for being too absurd.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Mark Carney is possibly the most competent central banker there is.

I'm sure he's very competent, but he's also a figurehead. Statements by him have real-world effects which are often negative.

Like the great Lionel Hutz said: "There's the truth <shakes head> and the truth! <nods enthusiastically>"

 

[LewieP]

Well now that Peter Capaldi is done with the Doctor, do you think we should get another go at the show?

Armando Iannucci, creator and lead writer of The Thick of It recently left his new show Veep (basically the US version of The Thick of It) because he could no longer handle trying to parody American politics. I doubt he would feel much different about returning to The Thick of It.

 

[The Friendly Monster]

I'm sure he's very competent, but he's also a figurehead. Statements by him have real-world effects which are often negative.

Like the great Lionel Hutz said: "There's the truth <shakes head> and the truth! <nods enthusiastically>"

What makes you think he isn't already sugarcoating it?

 

[CCS]

I'm sure he's very competent, but he's also a figurehead. Statements by him have real-world effects which are often negative.

Like the great Lionel Hutz said: "There's the truth <shakes head> and the truth! <nods enthusiastically>"

He's a figurehead who makes statements based on the results of analysis made by thousands of experts, who do their best to produce the most accurate assessments and policy recommendations possible. You're welcome to disagree with their conclusions, but there is no effort to talk down the country going on.

I probably better shut up now.

 

[Theonik]

I'm sure he's very competent, but he's also a figurehead. Statements by him have real-world effects which are often negative.

Like the great Lionel Hutz said: "There's the truth <shakes head> and the truth! <nods enthusiastically>"

He needs to make real policy calls. This means he can't really lie and trust me he's sugarcoating it alright.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I hate that experts don't lie to make me feel better about questionable decisions I've made.

 

[Chittagong]

Reading Hammond's Brexit speech, they have already caved in pretty much in everything

- two phases in negotiations
- immigration/migration still needed
- UK will need to stay in for just a bit longer to avoid cliff edge
- free trade is important
- city is important

Hilarious.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Sir Vince Cable will confirm he is standing to become Lib Dem leader at about 11am today.

 

[autumnleaf]

Saw a poll on Good Morning Britain (...it was on at the gym...) saying 57% of people in a new poll would now vote to Remain. lolz.

I hate that experts don't lie to make me feel better about questionable decisions I've made.

 

[Spaghetti]

Reading Hammond's Brexit speech, they have already caved in pretty much in everything

- two phases in negotiations
- immigration/migration still needed
- UK will need to stay in for just a bit longer to avoid cliff edge
- free trade is important
- city is important

Hilarious.

Brexit means "we're sorry, we were wrong".

Sir Vince Cable will confirm he is standing to become Lib Dem leader at about 11am today.

Is he likely to stand unopposed or naw?

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Is he likely to stand unopposed or naw?

It'll most likely be a fight between him, Norman Lamb and Ed Davey. Vince is the clear favourite now - well known, has worked with Swinson before, liked in the media and is a bit of a maverick.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Reading Hammond's Brexit speech, they have already caved in pretty much in everything

- two phases in negotiations
- immigration/migration still needed
- UK will need to stay in for just a bit longer to avoid cliff edge
- free trade is important
- city is important

Hilarious.

Part of me thinks it was all for the election. Like they decided another election was happening last year already and were using the rhetoric to ensure an election win.

 

[theaface]

I'm sure he's very competent, but he's also a figurehead. Statements by him have real-world effects which are often negative.

Like the great Lionel Hutz said: "There's the truth <shakes head> and the truth! <nods enthusiastically>"

Good grief.

"I know the situation is fucked, but could you please just pretend it's not?"

Tell me wise leave voter, do you still think Brexit will be a good thing for the British economy? You're free to pick your timescale to measure that success - 1, 5 10, 50 or 100 years.

 

[Halph n Halph]

Carney seems to be gently suggesting that a rebalancing of the UK economy will not be pain free. I would say that it's more like a dose of realism than scaremongering.
Shocks like the leave result can take a decade or more to get over. The financial crash and stagnation of wage growth since, is evidence of that.
The late 80s to 2006 was a party the likes of which we are unlikely to see again until 2030 at the earliest.
Then again who knows for sure ?

 

[IlGialloMondadori]

I never liked Carney. He always seems to be talking down the economy.

"If we set this building on fire and block the exits, we'll likely burn to death."
"I never liked this guy. Always talking about the negatives."

 

[TimmmV]

I'm sure he's very competent, but he's also a figurehead. Statements by him have real-world effects which are often negative.

Like the great Lionel Hutz said: "There's the truth <shakes head> and the truth! <nods enthusiastically>"

Obligatory:

How about Polish folks who want to come into the UK. That's incredibly unfair, you must see this.
In no way should Brits be given EU rights if the same rights don't exist for its citizens.

The only sensible way around this is to allow individuals of both sides pay for freedom of movement, similar to how they pay for the EU budget.

I'm kind of with you on this. I don't see how it would work without some kind of reciprocal agreement for EU people from the UK, which obviously isn't a decision any politician is likely to make at the moment

Plus, I still think Brexit needs to bring an absolutely crushing blow of realism to British people (well, mainly old British people). Choosing to leave, and then having some kind of arrangement where British people can still go and travel/live in the EU visa free will just play into some peoples idea that Britain is great enough to have its cake and eat it too. The UK needs to see that this isn't true, and if you keep insisting you don't need other countries then they won't accept you back with open arms.

It's an incredibly harsh way of dealing with it, but tbh I don't really see any other way that will bring the UK down to earth.

But yeah, this really really sucks for the 48% of reasonable people & the 3 million or so EU migrants living in the UK (of which I am one!), they basically have no voice in negotiations at the moment, and their combined numbers will probably outnumber those who voted to leave.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Mark Carney is possibly the most competent central banker there is.

People say this and I think it's an exaggeration. He inherited a strong institutional set-up that meant Canada was shielded from the worst economic damage was it was. At that point you just plug the numbers into the Taylor Rule and adjust the interest rate accordingly.

Spoiler

My economics tutor is on the shadow MPC committee and does not approve of Carney, so my inherited opinion may be biased.

 

[Lego Boss]

Carney seems to be gently suggesting that a rebalancing of the UK economy will not be pain free. I would say that it's more like a dose of realism than scaremongering.
Shocks like the leave result can take a decade or more to get over. The financial crash and stagnation of wage growth since, is evidence of that.
The late 80s to 2006 was a party the likes of which we are unlikely to see again until 2030 at the earliest.
Then again who knows for sure ?

It will be like Japan's lost generation. Following the 1990s, they are only just coming out of it now. I can't see it being any better than this and given that we don't really have any native industry (cars, electronic consumer goods etc.) then I would suggest we're even more fucked than Japan.

It's reality. I'm surprised Carney is sticking around given the shitshow he is observing.

 

[KimonoNoNo]

Ack, what has been the point of all this.

Tanking the economy just to arrive after 2 years of negotiations with less rights, less influence and the same obligations; all while barreling along chanting will of the people.

 

[Vagabundo]

Have they nailed their colours to the mast yet on what they want? Have the DUP signed off on it or is it still all a complete mess?

I heard David David on the radio today still taking about a hard Brexit and getting all the goodies.

 

[kmag]

Carney seems to be gently suggesting that a rebalancing of the UK economy will not be pain free. I would say that it's more like a dose of realism than scaremongering.
Shocks like the leave result can take a decade or more to get over. The financial crash and stagnation of wage growth since, is evidence of that.
The late 80s to 2006 was a party the likes of which we are unlikely to see again until 2030 at the earliest.
Then again who knows for sure ?

The boomers final gift, abetted by the dim and the racist.

 

[MrMysterio]

No one is being deported.

Don't think anyone is getting deported. Securing the rights of existing citizens will be one of the first things they do.

Not quite sure what your image of your country is, but the UK just loves deportation centres, even for EU citizens:

Fivefold increase in number of EU citizens held in UK detention centres since Tories took power (Independent)

1 million in danger of deportation (Guardian)

Unfair deportations to come, expert warns (New Statesman)

Very quick google and you can quite easily see how en vogue deportation is in the UK.

Your blanket statement of "nobody will be deported" is conjuring a fantasy of the UK of being a reasonable, fair government, where it really really really isn't.
Especially under Theresa May, whose Home Secretary history you might want to check out before saying something insane like "nobody will be deported".

 

[Spuck-uk]

Did I miss something or does the UK still have no idea what they are doing or what they realistically want out of brexit?

You would be correct.

 

[Spuck-uk]

Tories already pay more tax anyway - the top decile of earners contributes around 60% of the total income tax take, and they're more likely to be Tories.

Top earners only barely trend toward voting Tory:

The biggest indicator of voting for the conservatives is being really old.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Confirmed: Cable will be running for leader of the LDs - his announcement is below.

http://www.libdemvoice.org/vince-cable-announces-his-candidacy-54656.html

Today I am announcing that I will be a candidate in the forthcoming Liberal Democrat leadership election. I wanted to do so on Lib Dem Voice, the leading forum for discussion amongst our membership.

With 20 years on the national political stage I am passionate as ever about our liberal values. I am ready to commit my energy, enthusiasm and experience to the task of leading the Liberal Democrats through what will be a period of chronic uncertainty. With the prospect of another election looming large, we must be ready for the fight.

Brexit negotiations have begun. The government is split and weakened; Labour is equivocal about Europe. The Liberal Democrats alone have a consistent and principled, outward looking, and approach to the issue. We must fight for the British public to have a final say on the government’s deal with a chance to stay in the EU if the deal is not good enough. To achieve this, we will need to work with like-minded people in other parties.

As Shadow Chancellor I secured a hard-won hearing for the party on the economy, warning of the 2008 financial crisis which has been a source of economic weakness, great inequality and political anger ever since. In government for five years as Secretary of State for Business I created a distinctive Lib Dem vision for the economy with a long-term industrial strategy, promotion of science and innovation, banking reform, investment in young people via apprenticeships and the promotion of socially responsible capitalism. With the economy approaching the Brexit iceberg, Liberal Democrats need more than ever to warn of the dangers ahead and the need for a new course.

As a socially progressive party we must build on our good policies in support of public services. The NHS, especially mental health, and social care and schools are now under severe financial pressure. Our campaigning on these issues, and others, like the environment, must be national and at community level, building on a long tradition which created the party’s local government base. With a clear voice and a clear message on these issues, we can rebuild our vote share and representation nationally, in local government, the Scottish parliament and the Welsh and London assemblies.

There are big opportunities ahead. The Conservatives are in disarray and in retreat. The Labour Party outperformed expectations but complacently believes that ‘one more heave’ will see it into office. But an economic policy based on offering lots of free things lacks economic credibility and will be found out. Investing in infrastructure, rather than borrowing for everyday running costs is credible. There is a big space in British politics which I am determined that we should occupy.

The contest will take place with the largest membership electorate in our party’s history. We should be ambitious about increasing our number still further and in particular attracting young people to our cause. I welcome the more diverse party and parliamentary party we now have and will give priority to promoting diversity, an issue I championed as a minister and with some success in business leadership.

The party has survived five difficult years of Coalition government and the disadvantage of the current unreformed voting system. We are now growing again and the political winds are moving in our favour. I believe I can, as leader, offer the energy, dedication and drive, as well as experience, to help – with you – to make our party a credible contender for power.

 

[Spuck-uk]

It'll most likely be a fight between him, Norman Lamb and Ed Davey. Vince is the clear favourite now - well known, has worked with Swinson before, liked in the media and is a bit of a maverick.

RADICAL CENTRISM TO THE RESCUE!*


*I'm teasing, but old, centre ground, economy first liberal is..hardly a maverick.