Nah Nintendo and Sony are the same /s
Jimquistion: Nintendo's SNES Classic Preorder Nonsense
- Thread starter mjc
- Start date
Nah Nintendo and Sony are the same /s
LegendofLex
Member
But the tactic people are usually referring to when they say "artificial scarcity" is "limiting quantities of an item at first to drive up demand so more of that item can be made and sold later."
This doesn't ever happen if the item is discontinued without capitalizing on the demand. Which means Nintendo must be generating demand for other reasons that aren't "sell more SNES Classics." (Like, I dunno, general demand for Mario/Zelda/Metroid/etc., which is exactly the strategy behind their mobile games - make a little money, attract more people to the brands.)
I said compared to software.
The cost of producing "one more unit" of software will always be much, much smaller than the costs of producing another unit of hardware.
So software is always where the bulk of the profits are for games companies, not hardware.
Nintendo's business isn't built on selling hardware for modest profits; it's built on selling software for incredible profits. This product doesn't exist at all except to generate demand for software.
I think i remember in a NES classic thread on GAF someone saying that Nintendo, unlike the other big two, does not have a personal production line factory and have to subcontract the product production to an existing one, which mean they must give the order size months in advance already. Also since the contract is made for batches, it is possible that reprinting directly is impossible if the factory already has another company contract following theirs.
As for their site, is that not more due to this plan needing a better online ordering infrastructure than the one they currently have?
Some things are rare. That's just how it goes. This thing is and was always meant to be rare. The same was true for the NES Classic. They never intended for this to be something they would make indefinitely. I think they were clear about this when it was announced. If we're going to get mad at this, then we need to get mad at all other companies who produce things that aren't meant to be mainstream and rare. Sometimes we just can't get something we want because it's a rare item. I don't know why people think that all items should be available at all times for them to purchase. The same goes for comics that have limited print runs. As long as they're up front about it, I don't think there's a problem.
Fanboys is the reason.
It's always the reason for defending terrible shit when it comes to video games.
I'm inclined to believe someone who has been working in the industry for years who goes on record with his sources that thats true. Additionally, we know a large number of people never got the NES mini that wanted them so discontinuing this is very clearly going to end up doing the same considering its shipping with a never before released game (And I assume general nostalgia is higher for the snes too)
Thats a rigid understanding of artificial scarcity that I don't believe Jim was ascribing to. You can still artificially undercut your production in roder to drive up hyp for the product and generate buzz about it and your company name without wanting to turn around in the future and sell more.
And again, I'll point out that they should have accounted for this in setting the price for the unit if thats the case. Theyre selling for 500 dollars, for a preorder, online right now. You could easily get away with selling this for 100, possible even more and not see any significant drop off for it.
If youre a business and you didn't intend to make it big with a limited product (In nintendo's case because your incompetent and can't understand the market for nostalgia and your own gaming library), but it did end up making it big and demand is so high you can't keep up with production, do you
A. expand your business model in order to try and meet demand or
B. discontinue the item.
Now to pretty much every company the answer is pretty obvious but since nintendo is well off they can elect to make choice B, for nintendo reasons.
Who in here has taken this too far and what is your definition of taking it too far?
Being reasonable and not screaming on the internet isn't defending "terrible shit."
Hell is it really "terrible" that you can't buy a piece of plastic with roms on it when you have other options?
It sucks, but man people are taking "anti-consumerism" too far.
You admitted to be a haterboy up above (you literally said you wished Nintendo would die), which, while the opposite, is basically just as bad and so means you're really in no position to judge others.
The Thnikkaman
Neo Member
Working for a company that very frequently has to contract out for custom parts has made me realize how very real lead times are.
IIRC didn't Nintendo say they were doing more than one run of this?
DeathbyCheerios
Member
Watch them do only one run and go "Well we saw tons up for sale on places like Ebay and realized that the want for these isn't enough so we decided to not make a second run"
They did but let's not let common sense get in the way of hysteria and shitposting.
LegendofLex
Member
But I don't think this is what's happened at all.
Nintendo never expected everyone to scoop this thing up, and it was never part of their business plan. They clearly designed this thing to be a cheap way to attract a few more people during the holidays who'd previously been less engaged with their current products but were interested in/fans of their older consoles (Kimishima explained this directly), and they would've been working on SNES Classic probably well before NES Classic released which means it would've been planned with the same assumptions.
So it's less "using artificial scarcity" and more "they never intended this to be a big thing that sold to tons of people for a long time," and "they're still prioritizing a ramp-up of their Switch business so they don't intend to make major changes to their plans for these classic consoles."
If it's the ONLY thing you make, then yeah, but this isn't the case here. They make lots of other products that make money for them. They don't need to keep producing this indefinitely. They were up front with how this was going to go from the beginning. We all knew this was going to be a limited run. It's a rare item that was intended to be rare.
DeathbyCheerios
Member
Do you have a source for this? All I have found is articles of them saying that they were making significantly more than the NES Classic.
themagicalkitsune
Member
Jim isn't reacting in any extreme way at all. It's not a "sold out preorder" like it's an isolated incident, Nintendo has a long history of pulling off such shitty antics business-wise and Jim keeps calling them out.
No one in their right mind would wish for Nintendo to go under because of it 'cause we want to play their games, but this is no reason for them to get a free pass on shitty business . Nintendo ain't our lord and savior, we can question their policies.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
I have Mario Odyssey preordered for 40% off(another act which required sheer luck in getting one) if context matters at all to you.
Im not putting money down on any other Nintendo product anytime soon. Be it Mario & Rabbids, Pokken DX, or even Metroid Returns (all 3 I was planning to buy day 1 before I got fed up)
When I wanted the Persona 5 collectors edition, I had days if not weeks to get a preorder in. When I wanted The Last Guardian collectors edition I had weeks to order one.
If I want a Nintendo collectors edition or amiibo or whatever, better pray I was around a computer for the few minutes it'll be up. That's unacceptable to me and exactly the reason why I dont want to support Nintendo anymore. Nintendo makes great games but theres no shortage of good games to play in todays market.
DeathbyCheerios
Member
So its either artificial scarcity or Nintendo being completely daft. Either one isn't a good look on Nintendo.
Also after they saw what happened with the NES classic if they didn't change direction to make more than thats just a god awful business decision.
https://www.polygon.com/2017/6/26/15875464/snes-classic-supply-more-units#
"Why don't they make more SNES Classics? Why don't they expand more development teams? Why don't they make more Switches?"
Everything costs money. It's clear that this was more along the lines of a side project and ever a full product they wanted to make. Everything's focused on getting the Switch moving while supporting the rest of the business with the 3DS. The SNES Classic is a one time purchase, it doesn't sell software afterwards. There's no real business reason to keep making them outside of of buzzwords like "good will"and therefore it's a limited product.
And again, why not both? If youre a company youre trying to make all your products and avenues of service profitable, not just one or two. There is zero reason why they can't continue making this in order to make money and to meet demand for a product. This shouldn't be an either or situation. They can say it was intended ot be limited all they want. I'll still call them incompetent for doing so and no matter how well other products are selling for them theyre still missing out on a profitable product because...nintendo.
LegendofLex
Member
If you're a company with your hands in a lot of different hardware and you're experiencing this with basically every hardware-based platform you launch, do you:
1) Prioritize meeting demand for the platforms that bring in recurring revenues and repeat customers and are the core foundation of your business
2) Completely change your business plan and start investing much more heavily in channels for a one-time sale product that was intended to be a cheap, limited-time nostalgia play to drive awareness (and do this just to combat scalpers, despite the product having already exceeded expectations - 2.3 million units sold! - and done the job you intended for it)
Opinionatedfish
Member
So, here's the basic idea.
Retailers purchase an allotment.
Nintendo provides the allotment, within limits, and then the retailer sets up pre-orders and so forth.
There are also tiers for retailers where ones that do not break street date or are known for limited returns are given a higher tier.
This is how every company that is profitable remains profitable.
Example: I used to work at an AAFES. We were going to be getting in the Game Boy Color and the average order guideline was 4 units.
BUT.. I complained.. a lot.. to the person who was above my section manager and got them to order in 16 units. It ended up getting split into two shipments and after the six month seasonal hire they did not keep me on. but... all the other stores in the area only got in two to four units. The system was a huge seller. We had a LINE outside of the store for the system when we got in the first shipment and when we got in the second shipment a few days later we still got a line before we opened.
So, yeah. I was right and it pissed off the person who determined if I stayed there.
But yeah. The moral of the story is that your store may not have an SNES Classic because they are
1: Too low tier to order past a certain amount.
2. Terrible at judging demand and have ordered too little of a product.
Pre-Orders are based on the tier guidelines, with store by store min/max. Also...
US (Plus Bases) Store Counts
Target - 1,816
Wal-Mart - 4,177
Best Buy - (aprox) 1,300
GameStop - 4,434
Toys R Us - 866
AAFES - 2,500
Total - 15,093 with a minimum of 5 units per store: 75,465.
Some places, like Best Buy, actually get allotments of 30 to 40 units. So, Best Buy alone will be getting about a minimum of 52,000 units. This does not factor in places like FRYs, Botiques, and online retailers.
Anyhow, Nintendo sold 2.3 million units within a five month period. Considering what Think Geek/GameStop recently pulled.. my estimate is that Nintendo manufactured 2.5 million NES Classic units. So, if the SNES Classic has a higher make order, than I suspect that Nintendo will manufacture about 3 to 4 million units SNES Classic units, but the pre-order structure for retailers may be based on NES Classic style allotments.
Keep in mind that this is a total make order and it may take several months to cycle through.
Retailers purchase an allotment.
Nintendo provides the allotment, within limits, and then the retailer sets up pre-orders and so forth.
There are also tiers for retailers where ones that do not break street date or are known for limited returns are given a higher tier.
This is how every company that is profitable remains profitable.
Example: I used to work at an AAFES. We were going to be getting in the Game Boy Color and the average order guideline was 4 units.
BUT.. I complained.. a lot.. to the person who was above my section manager and got them to order in 16 units. It ended up getting split into two shipments and after the six month seasonal hire they did not keep me on. but... all the other stores in the area only got in two to four units. The system was a huge seller. We had a LINE outside of the store for the system when we got in the first shipment and when we got in the second shipment a few days later we still got a line before we opened.
So, yeah. I was right and it pissed off the person who determined if I stayed there.
But yeah. The moral of the story is that your store may not have an SNES Classic because they are
1: Too low tier to order past a certain amount.
2. Terrible at judging demand and have ordered too little of a product.
Pre-Orders are based on the tier guidelines, with store by store min/max. Also...
US (Plus Bases) Store Counts
Target - 1,816
Wal-Mart - 4,177
Best Buy - (aprox) 1,300
GameStop - 4,434
Toys R Us - 866
AAFES - 2,500
Total - 15,093 with a minimum of 5 units per store: 75,465.
Some places, like Best Buy, actually get allotments of 30 to 40 units. So, Best Buy alone will be getting about a minimum of 52,000 units. This does not factor in places like FRYs, Botiques, and online retailers.
Anyhow, Nintendo sold 2.3 million units within a five month period. Considering what Think Geek/GameStop recently pulled.. my estimate is that Nintendo manufactured 2.5 million NES Classic units. So, if the SNES Classic has a higher make order, than I suspect that Nintendo will manufacture about 3 to 4 million units SNES Classic units, but the pre-order structure for retailers may be based on NES Classic style allotments.
Keep in mind that this is a total make order and it may take several months to cycle through.
Y'know I played and loved all these games, but I just don't understand the furious frenzy around these little mini decks. I mean they're cute, and seem like a convenient way to play old stuff, but all this sturm und drang...
Wonder if it's tied into the same mentality that has people always wanting remakes/rereleases of old games
Wonder if it's tied into the same mentality that has people always wanting remakes/rereleases of old games
truestatic
Member
It's not like they exhausted demand for NES Classics. Things were flying off the shelf until the day they stopped making em.
Snkfanatic
Banned
Yeah I hope the entire company closes, many lose their jobs, we never see a game again from any of their IPs that tons of people enjoy. Because reasons.....
Just wow lol
DeathbyCheerios
Member
Thanks for this. Doesn't really say how much they are making which doesn't help.
I just wish that if Nintendo wanted to do a limited run that they would just even put a hard number out like. "We are making 2 million available world wide" So people wouldn't be guessing if more might come in the future or not.
That would be weird since having a product fly through shelves normally makes one reevaluate the number you wish to receive, but this analysis is possible and could explain a lot.
Making this item means you're not making something else, and again, some items are created with the idea that they will be limited and rare. That's why special editions and the like exist. Some people will get them, and some won't. That's how it goes for rare things. I wanted to go see Temple of the Dog play and they were doing only a select few concerts. The tickets sold out in record time and lots of bots scooped up tickets. Yeah, they could have made more shows to make fans happy, but it was a rare concert and we all knew it was going to be that way. I'm mad the bots got tickets and the scalpers made it harder for us fans to see them, but I'm not mad at the band for not doing more shows when they could have. That's the way it goes, man. Some things are rare and are meant to be rare. Just like this SNES Classic. If you get one, rejoice. If you don't, that's how it goes. Maybe they'll do it again in the future and you'll get lucky.
LegendofLex
Member
This doesn't make a difference if the problem is that scalpers are showing up to buy tons of the units. In fact, if anything it keeps scalpers informed about how high to push prices.
DeathbyCheerios
Member
Jesus the White Knighting you are doing here is ridiculous.
This isn't driving awareness. The Switch is already one of the hottest selling consoles out. Everyone and their dog knows it exists and they aren't even making enough of those for the demand.
So how is this to drive brand awareness? Someone looking at the SNES Mini for $80 with a bunch of games isn't going to go, oh look its out of stock let me spend $400+ for a Switch instead. And even if they did they would go...oh...thats out of stock too. Maybe I will buy an PS4.
It seems pretty clear the NES Classic was a stopgap for the holiday while the Wii U was dead and Switch wasn't ready until March. The SNES Classic honestly sounds like something they decided to make since the NES Classic was so popular, but it was never going to be a long running product. They flat out said how long they were going to make them at the announcement of the product.
This actually makes a lot of sense from my experience in retail supply chains. It kinda sucks all around.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
I keep reading this idea that NoA has been shitty with supply issues in the last few years and I'm like what? The Wii was ten years ago already. Hell the NES constantly ran into stock issues. This thing has been pervasive throughout their history.
Gai Murakumo
Member
I feel you. I swear Nintendo products are among the few things where you better pray you are lucky and are fast on the checkout button. Other products, unless clearly limited such as only say 1,000 made, most of the time you can take your time to order and you do not have to scramble.
If it isn't profitable than I might agree but we don't know that and if it isn't theyre still imconpetent for not setting the price at such that it would cover the cost of production + be profitable.. Additionally, I said I understand not keeping up with demand in the first few months, like with the switch. The glaring distinction being, the switch isn't being discontinued anytime soon.
DeathbyCheerios
Member
And with how much scalpers are charging people are willing to pay more for the SNES Classic. Best thing to do is say, raise the cost to $100 to make it profitable and actually make enough. Boom. There you go people who want one can actually get one and Nintendo is making the dough not so random person who runs bots so he can scalp them on ebay.
Fox Mulder
Member
This has been happening for years and it frustrates people. I was hooked on amiibos like crack and jumped through many hoops. The NES classic shitshow was making me hate them. I just said fuck it and will spend my money on other things.
truestatic
Member
Preemptively capping the lifespan of a product you know will be popular throughout that lifespan - more popular than you can possibly provide for - is, if not artificial scarcity, certainly intentional. What's the benefit there? Whether it's literally just to produce a limited quantity item because of the dubious merit of being limited, or whether it's done to produce additional hype for their fans then they're knowingly, intentionally pissing off (or at least disappointing) their fans as a part of their business strategy. Fuck supply rationing like that.
I work at a retail store and the other factor is storage. Our stockroom is virtually full and so getting too much of a product means we can't put it anywhere, so we prioritize based on size and space constraints. If we know a product is going to be popular, but we don't have the space to hold the extras, we end up ordering only a few, even though we know they'll sell fairly quickly. In the off chance that they don't we don't want product sitting on the floor in the stockroom. There's a lot of juggling going on at the store level, even though corporate might want us to stock a ton of stuff, but with us seasonal stuff gets the most space and things that are one-off or limited runs get less space and we have less room to store those things. I imagine this may be true at other places, too.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, such an overreaction is laughable. Your seeming expectation for getting 40% off with Mario Odyssey (as seen in the "which required sheer luck," as if 40% discounts on games that aren't even out yet are commonplace) doesn't exactly help your case either.
The Switch is being completely hijacked by Apple monopolizing the NAND chip supply for their iphones. That's completely out of Nintendo's hands as they're completely dwarfed by the juggernaut that is Apple.
I honestly don't think they were even considering making the SNES Classic at first, but the demand was made so they pulled it out as they could. However they tried to be more transparent about it by saying up front it wouldn't last long and that they would actually do pre-orders unlike the NES Classic before.
Yes it's a product every casual fan wants, but that could be said for a lot of things like sneakers and holiday toys. Honestly at this point I'm starting to wonder if it would have been better if they never made it at all.
DeathbyCheerios
Member
It's called not being a fan boy and speaking with your wallet. People do the same shit with Apple all the time. Apple does something that pisses off a large portion of their user base and then they still buy the apple shit cause its Apple. Which then the company does more and more bullshit cause they get away with it and still make bank.
Nintendo does the same thing and people are getting tired of it. If it was only a recent trend than sure, total over reaction. But Nintendo has a huge track record on shit like this. They make a ton of baffling dumb decisions and people still buy their shit cause Nintendo.
Opinionatedfish
Member
There's also the product. The NES sold over 60 million units in the USA. The SNES sold under 25 million in the USA. More people have nostalgia for the NES than have nostalgia for the SNES. There's a chance that the SNES Classic might perform closer to the many Genesis Direct to TV units that are out there.
But you're pre-emptively scheduling manufacturing. That's what a Make Order is. "Here is how many we want by this time, can you work with our schedule." "We will try, but could you adjust it to this amount with in this amount of time?"
It's not manufactured scarcity. There's also the people who will go and doodle around with off market ROMs and Raspberry Pi units instead of purchasing one. Those people are not the target audience for an SNES Classic or an NES Classic.
What are you even arguing about the switch for? I literally posted twice in a row I understand the problems with the switch, and said that in general its understandable.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
If Im not happy with a company's practices and they let me down constantly, I'm not going to support them.
Not seeing how thats an overreaction.
Sorry I misunderstood your post.
That's a fair argument. If the transaction's not to your liking, don't engage in it. Your reasoning is just a bit weird.
How was Jim's video extreme?
I'm curious how you were let down? People keep saying this, but I just don't see what the problem is? Their products are super popular so you can't get it when you want?
Spieler Eins
Member
snez is for the savages only and I don't know a place where this wouldn't be the case.