*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO

BreezyLimbo said:
at this point GRRM might as well crib the shows plot since he's obviously never going to finish it. And he can reissue the other novels in the series and cut all the unnecessary characters, like lady stoneheart
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Why would anyone want that? The shows plot is terrible at this point. GRRM can take his time now that the show has passed him and get the ending right
 
So... I don't understand how that ice dragon brought down the Wall. What exactly is his breath made of?

If it is fire, wouldn't the Wall at least partially melt instead of shatter and crumble? Also why would the Others use fire, if that is one of the weaknesses of their army and potentially themselves?

If it is ice or "cold fire" or whatever, why would the Wall be affected at all, since it is made of the same material? And the breath also clearly isn't made of any solid material but in the same state that fire is, so the force in which the dragon launches it against the Wall barely matters (not that a dragon of its size could even emit enough force to break down the Wall that easily anyway, even if it were breathing solid material).

That aside, this episode was silly. All of it.

Fisico said:
Littlefinger broke down like the joke antagonist you have in an opening case.
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He was straight up a killer out of a Poirot novel.
 
Red Arremer said:
So... I don't understand how that ice dragon brought down the Wall. What exactly is his breath made of?

If it is fire, wouldn't the Wall at least partially melt instead of shatter and crumble? Also why would the Others use fire, if that is one of the weaknesses of their army and potentially themselves?

If it is ice or "cold fire" or whatever, why would the Wall be affected at all, since it is made of the same material? And the breath also clearly isn't made of any solid material but in the same state that fire is, so the force in which the dragon launches it against the Wall barely matters (not that a dragon of its size could even emit enough force to break down the Wall that easily anyway, even if it were breathing solid material).

That aside, this episode was silly. All of it.
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Dragon fire is probably different than regular fire. Dragon fire from an undead dragon powered by the NK is probably more potent then regular dragon fire.

Theres 4 different types of fire in the show:
Fire>Dragon Fire>Wild Fire>Undead Dragonfire

Now Im not a scientist, but I would imagine undead dragonfire has magical properties.

Also the reason why the wall broke apart is most likely because of its own weight crushing and causing it to crumble.
 
Red Arremer said:
So... I don't understand how that ice dragon brought down the Wall. What exactly is his breath made of?

If it is fire, wouldn't the Wall at least partially melt instead of shatter and crumble? Also why would the Others use fire, if that is one of the weaknesses of their army and potentially themselves?

If it is ice or "cold fire" or whatever, why would the Wall be affected at all, since it is made of the same material? And the breath also clearly isn't made of any solid material but in the same state that fire is, so the force in which the dragon launches it against the Wall barely matters (not that a dragon of its size could even emit enough force to break down the Wall that easily anyway, even if it were breathing solid material).

That aside, this episode was silly. All of it.



He was straight up a killer out of a Poirot novel.
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Pretty sure it's regular fire. And it's blue because maybe it's hotter? Fire can be blue
 
was anyone else bothered by dany not expressing any interest in what happened to ellaria during the meeting? talk about forgetting your allies. at least theon tries to do something about yara.
 
BreezyLimbo said:
Dragon fire is probably different than regular fire. Dragon fire from an undead dragon powered by the NK is probably more potent then regular dragon fire.

Theres 4 different types of fire in the show:
Fire>Dragon Fire>Wild Fire>Undead Dragonfire

Now Im not a scientist, but I would imagine undead dragonfire has magical properties.
Click to expand...

I'm well aware that dragon fire and wildfire are considered to have different properties than regular fire, though so far they've only established that both dragon fire and wildfire simply burn hotter than regular flames so that they can melt metal and stone.

I'm just utterly confused what exactly the undead dragon's flames consist of. If they're hot, then the Wall wouldn't shatter like that. Parts of it would melt, and yes it would crack from the sudden change of temperature, but it wouldn't be fall apart like it did in the show.
And if they are supposed to be cold, the Wall wouldn't be affected by it either.

The way it was presented, the Wall was hit by a massive amount of force, like an explosion or, I dunno, a giant wrecking ball.
 
BreezyLimbo said:
Dragon fire is probably different than regular fire. Dragon fire from an undead dragon powered by the NK is probably more potent then regular dragon fire.

Theres 4 different types of fire in the show:
Fire>Dragon Fire>Wild Fire>Undead Dragonfire

Now Im not a scientist, but I would imagine undead dragonfire has magical properties.

Also the reason why the wall broke apart is most likely because of its own weight crushing and causing it to crumble.
Click to expand...
And take into consideration, dragons play some kind of role in creating valyrian steel, so it has some sort of magical properties in that respect since valyrian steel can kill white walkers
 
Red Arremer said:
I'm well aware that dragon fire and wildfire are considered to have different properties than regular fire, though so far they've only established that both dragon fire and wildfire simply burn hotter than regular flames so that they can melt metal and stone.

I'm just utterly confused what exactly the undead dragon's flames consist of. If they're hot, then the Wall wouldn't shatter like that. Parts of it would melt, and yes it would crack from the sudden change of temperature, but it wouldn't be fall apart like it did in the show.
And if they are supposed to be cold, the Wall wouldn't be affected by it either.

The way it was presented, the Wall was hit by a massive amount of force, like an explosion or, I dunno, a giant wrecking ball.
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I'm sick of you truthers, with your "Undead dragon fire can't melt ice beams!" nonsense!
 
How are people saying they didn't have proof? Carcetti sold Sansa and Sansa was in the room. What do you guys want, a bill of sale?

Plus Bran is there doing his omnipotent shit.

Lots of things to complain about with Baelish but no proof is pretty low on the list.
 
John Dunbar said:
was anyone else bothered by dany not expressing any interest in what happened to ellaria during the meeting? talk about forgetting your allies. at least theon tries to do something about yara.
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I already predicted Dorne would completely disappear into thin air once they had captured Ellaria.

I mean, the Dornish literally had an army standing ready to support Dany. Did that support suddenly evaporate because of Ellaria getting captured and the Sand Snakes getting murdered? That was pretty much exactly the reason why Dorne went ahead with the killing of the Martells in the first place - cause of the killing of Oberyn as well as Elia. And now the Lannisters ALSO took or killed their new leaders.
If they are so driven by vengeance over their leadership: Why aren't the Dornish coordinating their army with Dany? Wouldn't they want to free Ellaria? What happened to the other daughters of Oberyn's that were mentioned in the show?

That's not to mention of course the meeting between the factions that you already brought up.

But nope, lazy writing wins once more.
 
John Dunbar said:
was anyone else bothered by dany not expressing any interest in what happened to ellaria during the meeting? talk about forgetting your allies. at least theon tries to do something about yara.
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no because the show has already established that the entirety of dorne was eliminated from existence and everyone's memory the moment that ellaria was captured
 
Also, did they cast Harry Lloyd (who played Viserys) for Rhaegar as well? It was hard to tell cause of the perspective, which was likely on purpose, but the voice seemed similar, as did the body type and face structure.
 
Bullshit on Rhaegar loving Lyanna. He took advantage of a young girl's feelings for him to carry on his prophecy obsessed life. Bleurgh.

The house of the undying chapter has been ignored in the show, dunno why it's a defence for Jon being named aegon.

But ayy we finally get Aegon and the golden company!
 
hydrophilic attack said:
no because the show has already established that the entirety of dorne was eliminated from existence and everyone's memory the moment that ellaria was captured
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Except Bran brought up the idea that Jon could actually be Jon Sands (eww) and took us on a flashback to actual Dorne. And Theon bringing up Yara didn't help either. At least when everything's dies, Dorne will survive.

I enjoyed the episode, but it could have been great with better directions, particular the end of Littlefinger and the heroic turn for Theon. I don't like that they used that talk between Theon and Jon tand made it more about Jon at the end.
 
Red Arremer said:
So... I don't understand how that ice dragon brought down the Wall. What exactly is his breath made of?

If it is fire, wouldn't the Wall at least partially melt instead of shatter and crumble? Also why would the Others use fire, if that is one of the weaknesses of their army and potentially themselves?

If it is ice or "cold fire" or whatever, why would the Wall be affected at all, since it is made of the same material? And the breath also clearly isn't made of any solid material but in the same state that fire is, so the force in which the dragon launches it against the Wall barely matters (not that a dragon of its size could even emit enough force to break down the Wall that easily anyway, even if it were breathing solid material).

That aside, this episode was silly. All of it.



He was straight up a killer out of a Poirot novel.
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I think you are just thinking too much. It's a show about undead dragons and ancient Kings. It has direwolves and assassins that can change face.
Not a very realistic show to apply realistic laws of physics.
 
Timbuktu said:
Except Bran brought up the idea that Jon could actually be Jon Sands (eww) and took us on a flashback to actual Dorne. And Theon bringing up Yara didn't help either. At least when everything's dies, Dorne will survive.
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bran is the three-eyed raven

he can see everywhere, even into parallel universes of retcons
 
"robert's rebellion was built on a lie" was so stupid it's insulting. rhaegar and lyanna disappared and then the mad king killed ned's brother and father after they wanted some answers, and wanted to kill ned and robert as well. it might have been built on stupidity, but not a lie.
 
Violater said:
Have some of you never seen blue flames? Why are you calling it an ice dragon?
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Cause it's ice people who use ice zombies from an ice land who revived the dragon. Fire, regardless of its colour, is one of the main weaknesses of the army of the dead. Utilizing fire would be difficult unless there's a caveat associated with it (e.g. the fire is "cold fire" that freezes, rather than hot fire like normal dragons spit).

Gunslinger said:
I think you are just thinking too much. It's a show about undead dragons and ancient Kings. It has direwolves and assassins that can change face.
Not a very realistic show to apply realistic laws of physics.
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I suppose in a show where a whole major part of a continent with a standing army suddenly vanishes, a dragon can spit blue flame bombs.
 
John Dunbar said:
"robert's rebellion was built on a lie" was so stupid it's insulting. rhaegar and lyanna disappared and then the mad king killed ned's brother and father after they wanted some answers, and wanted to kill ned and robert as well. it might have been built on stupidity, but not a lie.
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For Robert it was a lie though, he assumed Lyanna was kidnapped.
 
Red Arremer said:
Cause it's ice people who use ice zombies from an ice land who revived the dragon. Fire, regardless of its colour, is one of the main weaknesses of the army of the dead. Utilizing fire would be difficult unless there's a caveat associated with it (e.g. the fire is "cold fire" that freezes, rather than hot fire like normal dragons spit).



I suppose in a show where a whole major part of a continent suddenly with a standing army vanishes, a dragon can spit blue flame bombs.
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Yeah man ever since the book material ran out the show became more pop corn entertainment. Just watch to have fun lol. There's plenty to nitpick if you want but where's the fun in that?
 
Branduil said:
BTW is Ilyn Payne still alive? I haven't seen him in forever.
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They stopped using the character cause the actor had been diagnosed with cancer and left the show. The actor has by now, to my knowledge, overcome the disease and mentioned he would like to return to the show, but at this point I imagine that D&D don't really care about bringing back a side character like him.
 
Betty said:
For Robert it was a lie though, he assumed Lyanna was kidnapped.
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She was. She's an underaged girl who was promised to him. No matter what the "facts" were lets be honest, he wouldn't have seen it any differently. Ragger Targy was older, a learned man, a crown prince, married with two children. Him doing what he did with or without consent from the girl he ran away with doesn't change anything, it would still be an insult on Robert's honor and generally seen as a really dodgy thing.
 
Gunslinger said:
I think you are just thinking too much. It's a show about undead dragons and ancient Kings. It has direwolves and assassins that can change face.
Not a very realistic show to apply realistic laws of physics.
Click to expand...
This has always been a stupid argument. That a show/book/film features fantastical stuff doesn't mean it can make up physics on the fly. There's something as internal consistency, nothing in the series has pointed towards GoT having their own special laws of physics. I mean, if Jon suddenly flies away next episode, are you also going to say: "Well, the show has dragons, so it's unfair to apply basic laws of gravity."?
 
The Bran + Sam scene was strangely really good. Great interaction, and the comedic timing on the raised letter was on point. I could have done without the voice-over during the Dany/Jon scene. But I think that was the point, to fuck with people's minds who wanted them to have sex. Basically a "you got what you want, but we are gonna remind you they are family literally as they are fucking"
 
JadedWriter said:
I guess this is Aiden's reward for not getting killed in the Wire. Carcetti finally got got.
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Carcetti was so much better at the game than Littlefinger, he even convinced himself that he's the good guy. I know they were going for a twist, but the last couple of episodes made it so obscure. I'm not sure when and how they figured it out, whether they talked to Bran and it seems like it didn't matter to the show and they just wanted to wrap things up.
 
I've argued about this with a friend already but does Tyrion love Dany in that romantic way? He admires her as a leader, but so does Varys. In my mind, the show hasn't really established that he cares for her in that way but my friend was suggesting he was waiting outside that room because he was jealous.
 
duckroll said:
She was. She's an underaged girl who was promised to him. No matter what the "facts" were lets be honest, he wouldn't have seen it any differently. Ragger Targy was older, a learned man, a crown prince, married with two children. Him doing what he did with or without consent from the girl he ran away with doesn't change anything, it would still be an insult on Robert's honor and generally seen as a really dodgy thing.
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Fair enough but the show proves she wasn't quite treated like Robert and most of the realm thought she was.

Had people learned that Lyanna was willing to be with Rhaegar maybe things would've turned out differently.

John Dunbar said:
but he did not rebel (or more precisely jon arryn did not rebel) until ned's dad and brother were killed and robert and ned were going to be next.
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Yeah, I guess it is wrong to say the rebellion was built on a lie then, Robert and Ned were reacting to Aerys' actions.
 
whytemyke said:
How are people saying they didn't have proof? Carcetti sold Sansa and Sansa was in the room. What do you guys want, a bill of sale?

Plus Bran is there doing his omnipotent shit.

Lots of things to complain about with Baelish but no proof is pretty low on the list.
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1st : It's a joke, unless you're taking the Ace Attorney comparison seriously which you shouldn't
2nd : One witness and a magic user seeing things are not "proof", they just listed everything that Littlefinger has done so far and that we know is true but that were just assertions with nothing to back it of.
The only thing where there was a definitive witness is Lysa's murder and that relies on Sansa which benefits a lot from Littlefinger's death and clearly has a personal grudge (100% legitimate) against him for making her wed Ramsay (which wasn't a crime)

In the end it striked me as a bit similar to (Ace Attorney 4 spoiler)
Kristoph Gavin in Apollo Justice, you know he's guilty as fuck, everyone knows it, but there's 0 proof and he's only found guilty because of the jury system.

In the end there's no fair trial in this series and there never was one, even on the "good side" they end up slitting the throat of the bad guy just because they think it's fair.

This subplot relied on a lot of contrivance to happen anyway.
 
Cersei's plan doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

All they wanted her to do was agree to a truce and not attack while they were fighting the undead.

She refused that, and then came back and gave an even bigger pledge, to actually fight alongside them.

But she was lying, and was really going to sit it out and let everyone kill each other.

Why not just agree to the first deal then, which was basically what she is going to do anyway??

Now, they're going to know instantly that she is betraying them, because obviously her armies are not going to go north.


Also, Littlefinger not denying everything, not bringing up that he saved Sansa's life when he got her out of King's Landing, saved her life and Jon's life and the entire North when he brought the knights of the Vale to win the Battle of the Bastards...just so stupid.
 
Tuffty said:
I've argued about this with a friend already but does Tyrion love Dany in that romantic way? He admires her as a leader, but so does Varys. In my mind, the show hasn't really established that he cares for her in that way but my friend was suggesting he was waiting outside that room because he was jealous.
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it's possible. grrm's original plan had a love triangle that involved jon and tyrian (and arya, lol), and show tyrion has already convinced dany to send both jorah and daario away (though boomerang mormont always comes back).

i don't think it's particularly earned, but it would explain why he hasn't pushed for a marriage between jon and dany.
 
Excellent season finale, best episode of the season by far. This season has been too fast paced and short imo. Never had a moment to breathe and simmer really like earlier seasons.

But the season has had it fair share of great moments like the stuff with the dragons. Too bad they couldnt pad out the last 2 seasons with 10 episodes each. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Shit will go down next season though.
 
okay so in terms of the books, there are historical cases of Stark uncles marrying their nieces, right?

combined with the fact that Ned's parents were cousins and Sansa was warm to the idea of marrying Robin, isn't it reasonable to believe that aunt/nephew shouldn't even be bad by Northern standards?
 
The Artisan said:
okay so in terms of the books, there are historical cases of Stark uncles marrying their nieces, right?

combined with the fact that Ned's parents were cousins and Sansa was warm to the idea of marrying Robin, isn't it reasonable to believe that aunt/nephew shouldn't even be bad by Northern standards?
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Who cares about Starks?

They're Targaryens. Targs do incest.

The Faith is destroyed, so who's gonna even oppose incestuous relationships at this point?
 
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