Support NeoGAF

[SDCowboy]

How to say so little as possible.

What else is there to say? It flew over Japan, and wasn't going to be a threat to the US.

 

[JordanN]

You might be right. But, I honestly think Kim is bordeline insane. Add to that that there might be internal politics pressuring him.

So is Trump. And this is the guy who DOES want to use them.

We're screwed either way. No point letting both bad guys get their wish.

 

[Regulus Tera]

So we just sit around and wait as Kim builds up an arsenal of nuclear-tipped ICBMs and then...

? They already do

 

[Neith]

If he wasn't capable of killing millions of South Koreans or Japanese why wouldn't we attack and remove him? It's 100% self preservation.

IDK it seems there is more to the story. Maybe we just have trouble locating him, or maybe they don't want to kill him. There is leadership in the country that would absolutely not follow in his footsteps, but I have no idea if that is a majority, silent majority, or what.

So is Trump. And this is the guy who DOES want to use them.

We're screwed either way. No point letting both bad guys get their wish.

There is one thing I like about Trump's quote, as it exposes the utter ridiculousness of having actual nuclear weapons in the first place. Humanity is insane.

 

[blackflag]

The key has to be to negotiate with China, make sure NK loses their life-line.

except in the meantime our idiot in charge is trying to start a fucking trade war with them instead.

 

[4Tran]

Sorry if this was covered somewhere, but is Japan capable of defending itself and launching a counter? I don't know the extent of their anti-military WWII agreements.

Japan doesn't have much in the way of offensive capabilities, so no. And even if they did, they would need military cooperation from South Korea, and that's not coming any time soon.

 

[pulsemyne]

Wonder if this was a KN-08. They have tested the missile a few times and the last one broke up after launch.

 

[KHarvey16]

His country is.

He could get into a dick waving contest all he wanted without investing everything into their offensive capabilities. This isn't grandstanding, there is a goal and these missiles are mile markers to that goal.

The country has starved before. That's not his priority and it's not essential to him keeping power. Weapons and the capability to kill millions of people is.

This is 100% a sabre rattling exercise with the goal of keeping people from killing him. And it'll work because we don't have any options.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

And when he has those missiles he gets a big boost at the international stage. This literally happened with the China. We spent to decades ignoring Mao and the PRC. He gets nukes in the 60s? A few years later nixon goes to china and less than 10 years later we get the Shanghi Communique.

Not saying that will happen with NK but with his defense secured he can then focus on economic development. At least that's what he's shown to be his intention

NK GDP is higher than Israel's was when they built their nuke program and their GDP per capita is higher than China's and I think India's.

NK dosn't have and will never had Israel capital and inversions, and neither will have the natural resources from India or China...

The notion NK will become a economic potency in even the next 50 years, is laughable at best.

 

[reckless]

except in the meantime our idiot in charge is trying to start a fucking trade war with them instead.

Well its not like we really have any leverage over China. They want a buffer, and NK provides that well enough.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

1180km. That is based on what they keep saying on Japanese TV.

So basically this?

1180km is about 700 miles of the coast.

 

[Oriel]

You should keep reading that article.
"ballistic design" does not equal "ballistic missile"

Talk about dancing on the head of a pinhead. You insisted it was an SRV when what was launched was a three-stage IRBM disguising itself as a space launcher. Back-peddle all you want but today's launch of a ballistic missile has taken place before with the Taepodong-2, what the linked article accurately describes as a ballistic missile.

 

[Fenderputty]

His country is.

He could get into a dick waving contest all he wanted without investing everything into their offensive capabilities. This isn't grandstanding, there is a goal and these missiles are mile markers to that goal.

What's his goal?

 

[Maiden Voyage]

The country has starved before. That's not his priority and it's not essential to him keeping power. Weapons and the capability to kill millions of people is.

This is 100% a sabre rattling exercise with the goal of keeping people from killing him. And it'll work because we don't have any options.

It's sabre rattling until it isn't. It is only a matter of time before NK does something that starts a war.

 

[rpmurphy]

Korea in general have had issues with Japan way before the US even existed.

Of course a factor but the end of WWII shifted focus to the US as the new imperialist power to oppose. Japan itself was made toothless.

 

[Horp]

So is Trump. And this is the guy who DOES want to use them.

We're screwed either way. No point letting both bad guys get their wish.

Trump is just as crazy and a lot more stupid. But the military wont follow him blindly.

 

[ISOM]

So is Trump. And this is the guy who DOES want to use them.

We're screwed either way. No point letting both bad guys get their wish.

Congrats guys, you pro first strike people have something in common with Trump.

 

[dallow_bg]

Wonder if this was a KN-08. They have tested the missile a few times and the last one broke up after launch.

Speculation says it's the KN17/Hwasong-12 IRBM.

Talk about dancing on the head of a pinhead. You insisted it was an SRV when what was launched was a three-stage IRBM disguising itself as a space launcher. Back-peddle all you want but today's launch of a ballistic missile has taken place before with the Taepodong-2, what the linked article accurately describes as a ballistic missile.

Cool. You didn't read what you linked to then which states the opposite.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

I would wager a lot of money that Japan wouldn't do shit unless the missile actually had a warhead on it.

May I ask about your opinion about what would happen if a NK ICBM w/o a warhead crashed on American soil 'by accident'?

Let it go?

 

[Xyrmellon]

Some are suggesting the missile may not have broken up and it could have been a simulated mirv attack.

 

[mrklaw]

Let’s play devils advocate for a moment. If you were a landlocked country or surrounded by other countries like NK is, how would you carry out long range missile tests without crossing neighbouring airspace?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

NK dosn't have and will never had Israel capital and inversions, and neither will have the natural resources from India or China...

The notion NK will become a economic potency in even the next 50 years, is laughable at best.

I'm sorry you're wrong. NK has more than Israel did.

ICBMs and nukes are 60 year old tech.

Let's play devils advocate for a moment. If you were a landlocked country or surrounded by other countries like NK is, how would you carry out long range missile tests without crossing neighbouring airspace?

China just launched them around its desert lol.

Mao when he wanted to show off his ICBM and prove its full range I believe fired it across the country.

Otherwise, you raise the apogee of the test so it goes hire but shorter.

 

[avaya]

Pandora's box was opened when the Soviet Union got nukes.

It's too late for humanity to change their mind on nuclear weapons.

Either a country uses them and they all get wiped out, or they just sit in the silos forever like that's already the case with USA, Russia, France, UK, Pakistan, India etc.

Think about why would North Korea use them? For the lawls? Come on. No different to asking why doesn't a U.S submarine just launch one right now.

Why was it opened when the Soviet Union got nukes?

It was already always going to happen somewhere the moment when Meitner, Hahn and Strassmann discovered Fission. You can't unlearn things. It was always there waiting to be discovered.

 

[Bob Coffee]

Sorry if this was covered somewhere, but is Japan capable of defending itself and launching a counter? I don't know the extent of their anti-military WWII agreements.

JSSDF is pretty big for a self defense force, plus murricas got troops based in japan and SK. if shit really went down, it would move very very fast.

 

[JigglesBunny]

Terrifying stuff. Is KJU just too ignorant to realize that he's going to get the entirety of North Korea ethered if he keeps pushing this way?

 

[Fenderputty]

It's sabre rattling until it isn't. It is only a matter of time before NK does something that starts a war.

What is their goal?

"It's saber rattling until it isn't" is a meaningless platitude.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

while it never seems like it's been conclusively concluded whether it was him or his brother at various schools in France of Switzerland....

assuming he was at least educated a few years in Europe, wonder what it must be like to have been his former classmate lol

or how normal he may of been then, only to be who he is now

 

[4Tran]

What's his goal?

Immunity from invasion. Gaddafi gave up his weapons of mass destruction, and he ended up dying. Everyone was going to learn from that lesson.

It's sabre rattling until it isn't. It is only a matter of time before NK does something that starts a war.

North Korea hasn't started a war in over 60 years. Unless conditions change in a major way, that's probably not going to change.

 

[KHarvey16]

It's sabre rattling until it isn't. It is only a matter of time before NK does something that starts a war.

There's no reason to believe that. Experts don't believe that. He believes the threat his weapons represent will shield him, and he's right. They won't work anymore if he uses them though and he knows that.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Sorry if this was covered somewhere, but is Japan capable of defending itself and launching a counter? I don't know the extent of their anti-military WWII agreements.

Hm by itself, no. But even then, if any populated center in Japan is hit and casualties are substantial, you can be guaranteed every nation allied with Japan will attack immediately and without hesitation.

 

[Stone Ocean]

What is their goal?

The status quo

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

May I ask about your opinion about what would happen if a NK ICBM w/o a warhead crashed on American soil 'by accident'?

Let it go?

You really think NK would do that, and basically declaring war to USA?

 

[Regulus Tera]

Trump is just as crazy and a lot more stupid. But the military wont follow him blindly.

He is commander in chief. If the military doesn't follow him, he will replace whoever is in charge until he gets to someone who listens to him. Never mind that a military refusing to exercise their duty is an incredibly dangerous precedent to set.

 

[Fenderputty]

Immunity from invasion. Gaddafi gave up his weapons of mass destruction, and he ended up dying. Everyone was going to learn from that lesson.

The status quo

Right I agree. I don't think Maiden Voyage does.

 

[ExVicis]

This talk about decapitation strikes reminds me of the paranoia during the Cold War and how America's top brass wanted to nuke the Soviet Union while they still had the confidence of "only" losing Europe to nuclear fire and radioactive fallout. Meanwhile, the Soviet Union, which was scared as shit of America's nuclear arsenal, had to bluff big 24/7 in order to look much more menacing than it was, which probably played no small part in saving it from a preemptive strike.

Everybody go read this book.

Interesting stuff, thanks for the recommendation.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Sorry if this was covered somewhere, but is Japan capable of defending itself and launching a counter? I don't know the extent of their anti-military WWII agreements.

Vice did a doc on Japan having a big fear of China, and how Japan can't have a military but can have "defense". I don't remember the details, but I would watch it because its interesting.

 

[GiantBombGamer]

The difference between launching a missile into the ocean compared to over a country (with people getting missile warnings and everything) is monumental. People telling others to calm down/not be frightened are totally misjudging what it must feel like to be the average Japanese citizen right now, especially with the history they have with bombs being dropped on cities. I'd be petrified.

Exactly. Its quite hysterical that people feel the need to tell people how they should feel/respond. Doubly hysterical when its westerners telling those in Japan to calm down. The need to feel like the smartest one on the message board is real.

 

[avaya]

May I ask about your opinion about what would happen if a NK ICBM w/o a warhead crashed on American soil 'by accident'?

Let it go?

The question you ask is are you OK with 10million dead South Koreans? That is the same question Steven Bannon, the white supremacist fuck, posed and said it was unacceptable.

No one will do anything unless NK actually launches a strike.

 

[Oriel]

I don't know you or know what you've been threw in your life. But telling people to calm down when the OP says he woke up to this shit and Japanese people who may not be use to this are claiming to hear the missile fly over head tends to rub people the wrong way. There are people in here who live in Japan and they are scare for a good reason. Then they are other people like me who automatically thinks of how my nation (US) will react, especially with someone like Trump in office. I read this and saw this in the news and yes my thinking is that the next 4 years will be the most likely we will see the US invade or wipe out NK. If it doesn't happen with Trump then it'll never happen.

Yeah, silly me for wanting to inject some reasoned and informed commentary into a thread full of people pissing themselves over a test launch.

 

[KHarvey16]

May I ask about your opinion about what would happen if a NK ICBM w/o a warhead crashed on American soil 'by accident'?

Let it go?

If your options were diplomacy or an attack that will lead to the deaths of millions of South Koreans and Japanese, what would you do?

 

[SDCowboy]

Let’s play devils advocate for a moment. If you were a landlocked country or surrounded by other countries like NK is, how would you carry out long range missile tests without crossing neighbouring airspace?

NK isn't landlocked.It has water on 2:4 sides...

 

[Maiden Voyage]

What is their goal?

"It's saber rattling until it isn't" is a meaningless platitude.

I assume it is to payback the Americans for our war and potentially get SK back.

There's no reason to believe that. Experts don't believe that. He believes the threat his weapons represent will shield him, and he's right. They won't work anymore if he uses them though and he knows that.

Experts, huh?

 

[Green Yoshi]

This isn't fucking dick-waving, it's a missile aimed at a country.

It flew over the country.

Still unacceptable.

 

[Foxy the Fox]

Has NK ever launched a missile against japan like that? I know they always launch missiles near their own country just to scare other countries but this is the first time they launched something that went across the whole country right?

I don't think Japan is going to let it pass, what could be the consequences of this?

I know President Trump had some hunger to destroy NK asap.

 

[El_Mau]

Immunity from invasion. Gaddafi gave up his weapons of mass destruction, and he ended up dying. Everyone was going to learn from that lesson.


North Korea hasn't started a war in over 60 years. Unless conditions change in a major way, that's probably not going to change.

But those actions could start one, what if the missile fails and lands in Japan? That could start an armed conflict.

 

[Zophar]

Trump is not going to take us to war with North Korea. If he wants to have a war, he only wants one that will make him look good and not result in immense blowback. A war that wipes Seoul off the map and results in millions of dead/catastrophic economic damage, and potentially even nuclear escalation is not a war that will cast Trump in a favorable light.

 

[Jintor]

You really think NK would do that, and basically declaring war to USA?

by blasting over japan and sk they are effectively doing that yo

 

[Meadows]

Has NK ever launched a missile against japan like that? I know they always launch missiles near their own country just to scare other countries but this is the first time they launched something that went across the whole country right?

I don't think Japan is going to let it pass, what could be the consequences of this?

I know President Trump had some hunger to destroy NK asap.

They did it in '98 and '09

 

[Neith]

If your options were diplomacy or an attack that will lead to the deaths of millions of South Koreans and Japanese, what would you do?

It's not certain at all that millions would be dead. I can't see an attack provoking some random oh that was a medium hit let's see if they respond kind of thing. If they hit, it will be all out, and who is going to wage the war of atrocity against an innocent people?

Last I heard not everyone in this government even likes the leader at this point.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Yeah, silly me for wanting to inject some reasoned and informed commentary into a thread full of people pissing themselves over a test launch.

So you think the Japanese government sending everyone warnings was pissing itself?

Cool