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[Cindro]

While we're on the topic of story, what are some good resources to brush up on Metroid lore?

I'm starting to think that ZM -> SR -> SM could end up being one of the greatest gaming trilogies ever (at least in terms of sequential stories), and I'd love to refresh myself on the details of the universe before SR comes out.

I'm especially curious to read more about the chozo, some of the bosses, and what Mother Brain's endgame was in hiring space pirates to unleash metroids on the galaxy!

 

[Jonneh3003]

Just flat out no. Please tone down the ridiculous hyperbole.

It's very a well designed co-op shooter that seamlessly implements Metroid Prime gameplay mechanics. A familiar set of moves with some new agility sprinkled in to give you the feel of the original Prime games, used across good variety of combat, exploration, and recovery missions. I had an absolute blast with it.

I'll echo this. Federation Force gets way too much flack. Sure the timing of its release was poor when reflecting on the Metroid series at the time but it's by far the best spinoff Metroid has received (and I say that while acknowledging the excellence of Prime Pinball!).

Sure it isn't a traditional Metroid game but that's ok, it's a spinoff. A lot of what you love about Prime is there but converted down to a co-op mission based shooter. The story also sets up Prime 4 so I would suggest giving it a playthrough at some point.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

While we're on the topic of story, what are some good resources to brush up on Metroid lore?

I'm starting to think that ZM -> SR -> SM could end up being one of the greatest gaming trilogies ever (at least in terms of sequential stories), and I'd love to refresh myself on the details of the universe before SR comes out.

I'm especially curious to read more about the chozo, some of the bosses, and what Mother Brain's endgame was in hiring space pirates to unleash Metroid on the galaxy!

MamaRobotnik's big-ass Metroid thread

 

[yuoke]

I'll echo this. Federation Force gets way too much flack. Sure the timing of its release was poor when reflecting on the Metroid series at the time but it's by far the best spinoff Metroid has received (and I say that while acknowledging the excellence of Prime Pinball!).

Sure it isn't a traditional Metroid game but that's ok, it's a spinoff. A lot of what you love about Prime is there but converted down to a co-op mission based shooter. The story also sets up Prime 4 so I would suggest giving it a playthrough at some point.

I'll pass, not a fan of co-op shooters.

Spoiler

Plus there is only one 10 second end scene that sets up prime 4 as far as I know.

 

[Jonneh3003]

I'll pass, not a fan of co-op shooters.

Spoiler

Plus there is only one 10 second end scene that sets up prime 4 as far as I know.

That part directly sets up Prime 4 for sure but there's also other factors. The game takes place between Prime 3 and 4 and deals with events like the return of the space pirates and Metroids. It's not a MUST SEE kind of story but it's worth playing through if you're a fan of the Prime series.

 

[Mael]

I don't really get the hate FF gets, sure it's not what anyone expected or even demanded.
But no one asked for Metroid Prime First hunt either and it lead to Hunters which was pretty well received and sold well to boot.
It's not the most glorious Metroid game ever or something but it does the job it set out to do.
It's an inconsequential spinoff that is billed as such. If you liked it, great. If you didn't, it's ok and far from being essential.
FF seems like that to me.
The game has horrendous art direction but it's fairly competent otherwise, you can see the Luigi Mansion 2 roots here and there.
That it would trigger a reaction similar to Other M is rather surprising.
Kinda like people crapping on Super Mario Maker for 3DS saying that it means the death of 3D Mario or something.

That part directly sets up Prime 4 for sure but there's also other factors. The game takes place between Prime 3 and 4 and deals with events like the return of the space pirates and Metroids. It's not a MUST SEE kind of story but it's worth playing through if you're a fan of the Prime series.

Basically it's like the Clone Wars cartoon for the Prequel Trilogy movies.
It has some bits and pieces that ties the story together but hardly needed to enjoy the main story.

 

[backlot]

I don't really get the hate FF gets, sure it's not what anyone expected or even demanded.
But no one asked for Metroid Prime First hunt either and it lead to Hunters which was pretty well received and sold well to boot.

Federation Force is a $40 stand alone video game and First Hunt was a free demo. I don't really see how you can compare them.

 

[VDenter]

Just flat out no. Please tone down the ridiculous hyperbole.

It's very a well designed co-op shooter that seamlessly implements Metroid Prime gameplay mechanics. A familiar set of moves with some new agility sprinkled in to give you the feel of the original Prime games, used across good variety of combat, exploration, and recovery missions. I had an absolute blast with it.

There is nothing hyperbole about that post. FF is by the worst Nintendo game i have ever played. Past the first mission i had zero fun with that game and it was the only game that made me want to throw my 3DS out the window. It is the only game i regret spending money on. It is the only game that i am shocked that some people defend despite it being a failure on every single conceivable level.

 

[Jonneh3003]

There is nothing hyperbole about that post. FF is by the worst Nintendo game i have ever played. Past the first mission i had zero fun with that game and it was the only game that made me want to throw my 3DS out the window. It is the only game i regret spending money on. It is the only game that i am shocked that some people defend despite it being a failure on every single conceivable level.

-

 

[VDenter]

-

I wish i was joking.

 

[aidan]

I'm still semi-convinced that Federation Force began life as a proof-of-concept attempt at a Metroid Prime 3DS port.

 

[KingBroly]

Here's why people hate Federation Force

1 - Nintendo releases a shitty game in a beloved franchise
2 - Game sells terribly
3 - Nintendo goes dark on franchise
4 - Franchise re-emerges years later with a half-assed, half-baked, spit-up looking spin-off for a handheld
5 - Fans destroy new game on all media platforms
6 - Nintendo re-introduces game to "confused" fans
7 - Fans, not confused, continue to destroy game
8 - Game is released, sells worse than The Wonderful 101

Nintendo did everything, and I mean EVERYTHING wrong with Federation Force. Wrong game, wrong place, wrong time. They also insinuated their fans were stupid when they showed it off for the 2nd time. That didn't go over well AT ALL.

 

[VDenter]

Here's why people hate Federation Force

1 - Nintendo releases a shitty game in a beloved franchise
2 - Game sells terribly
3 - Nintendo goes dark on franchise
4 - Franchise re-emerges years later with a half-assed, half-baked, spit-up looking spin-off for a handheld
5 - Fans destroy new game on all media platforms
6 - Nintendo re-introduces game to "confused" fans
7 - Fans, not confused, continue to destroy game
8 - Game is released, sells worse than The Wonderful 101
9 - Game turned out the be worse than Other M and was possibly the worst Nintendo game ever made.
Nintendo did everything, and I mean EVERYTHING wrong with Federation Force. Wrong game, wrong place, wrong time. They also insinuated their fans were stupid when they showed it off for the 2nd time. That didn't go over well AT ALL.

FIFY

None of the previous points really matter in the end except that last one. I tried several times to give that game another go but there is just nothing good about it. The fact that Hunters a 2006 game released on much weaker hardware but still looks better and more like a Metroid game despite being a spin off says pretty much everything that needs to be said about what kind of a mistake FF was.

 

[KingBroly]

FIFY

None of the previous points really matter in the end except that last one.

I wouldn't know. I never played it. Never will, either.

And everything leading up to my point shows that it was a culmination of things. If you had another Metroid game released before Federation Force (or even announced), nobody would've given a shit about FF, it would've sold like shit, but it wouldn't be hated.

 

[Mael]

Federation Force is a $40 stand alone video game and First Hunt was a free demo. I don't really see how you can compare them.

I'm actually comparing FF to Prime Hunters but still.
They spinoffs, like 4Swords Adv if you hated the whole premise of the thing you just had to wait it out.

Here's why people hate Federation Force

1 - Nintendo releases a shitty game in a beloved franchise
2 - Game sells terribly
3 - Nintendo goes dark on franchise
4 - Franchise re-emerges years later with a half-assed, half-baked, spit-up looking spin-off for a handheld
5 - Fans destroy new game on all media platforms
6 - Nintendo re-introduces game to "confused" fans
7 - Fans, not confused, continue to destroy game
8 - Game is released, sells worse than The Wonderful 101

Nintendo did everything, and I mean EVERYTHING wrong with Federation Force. Wrong game, wrong place, wrong time. They also insinuated their fans were stupid when they showed it off for the 2nd time. That didn't go over well AT ALL.

Yeah, you'll never see me defend whatever marketing plan they had there.
As far as I'm concerned the last Metroid stuff was Metroid Blast and it was great.

9 - Game turned out the be worse than Other M and was possibly the worst Nintendo game ever made.

Some of you are really throwing shit at the wall to make it look like Other M is anything but unadultered crap.

 

[KingBroly]

Yeah, you'll never defend whatever marketing plan they had there.
As far as I'm concerned the last Metroid stuff was Metroid Blast and it was great.

plan? They didn't have a plan for Federation Force. When you suggest fans were "confused" about a game you're making, you're insinuating they are the problem. Nintendo should've taken the high ground and not brought fans into it, but no, they went low. At that point, the game was beyond DOA.

 

[VDenter]

Some of you are really throwing shit at the wall to make it look like Other M is anything but unadultered crap.

Do not worry Other M is still terrible. But i can never say that it is worse than FF.

 

[Toxi]

Urban Champion is the worst Nintendo game.

 

[Mael]

plan? They didn't have a plan for Federation Force. When you suggest fans were "confused" about a game you're making, you're insinuating they are the problem. Nintendo should've taken the high ground and not brought fans into it, but no, they went low. At that point, the game was beyond DOA.

Again, you're absolutely right.
Their marketing "plan" if we can call it that was incredibly bad.
the game could have been Metroid Prime 2 tier (also known as best tier), no one would have bought because of how fucking bad the marketing plan was!
I'm fairly ok with spinoffs of all kinds.
Heck I could tell you great things about all Star fox games but the last one (because fuck importing bad games really) but even I was turned off by that.

Do not worry Other M is still terrible. But i can never say that it is worse than FF.

I have a really hard time to believe that.
Even the free demo I barely played was more fun than whatever the fuck Other M tried.
Who knows when I'll get it for peanuts down the line maybe I'll make a thread asking for penance.
Then if you still remember, you can throw that picture

 

[J@hranimo]

Urban Champion is the worst Nintendo game.

Haven't you heard? It's Federation Force since it's an automatically bad game no one wanted yet never tried to see it's merits as a game /s

 

[Neoleo2143]

It's really cool how the Ice Beam Reverses the Melee Counter -> Shoot core strategy.

Spoiler

Instead, you Freeze an enemy and Shatter them with the melee.

Combat in this game looks pretty cool. I really like how enemy placements look in this game so that variety is injected to some degree. Enemy Placement in the beginning of the game is rather basic so the counter is clearly the dominant strategy (probably the get players used to the new type of flow that combat has) there but it seems to get much better around the time Gamma Metroids are introduced.

This might be the best combat in a 2D metroid game, fitting for a remake of what was previously the most combat centric metroid.

 

[Andyliini]

It's really cool how the Ice Beam Reverses the Melee Counter -> Shoot core strategy.

Spoiler

Instead, you Freeze an enemy and Shatter them with the melee.

Combat in this game looks pretty cool. I really like how enemy placements look in this game so that variety is injected to some degree. Enemy Placement in the beginning of the game is rather basic so the counter is clearly the dominant strategy there but it seems to get much better around the time Gamma Metroids are introduced.

What is this? Someone talking about Samus Returns in a thread about it? That certainly has not accured in a while.

 

[Neoleo2143]

What is this? Someone talking about Samus Returns in a thread about it? That certainly has not accured in a while.

It's kinda sad that so little talk of this game has sprung up because it looks really intelligently put together unlike the previous two entries.

 

[Immaculate]

While we're on the topic of story, what are some good resources to brush up on Metroid lore?

I'm starting to think that ZM -> SR -> SM could end up being one of the greatest gaming trilogies ever (at least in terms of sequential stories), and I'd love to refresh myself on the details of the universe before SR comes out.

I'm especially curious to read more about the chozo, some of the bosses, and what Mother Brain's endgame was in hiring space pirates to unleash metroids on the galaxy!

read the manga

 

[Jawbreaker]

Counting down the days here. Do we have any estimates on the amount of time it takes to complete the game (not 100%)?

 

[Neoleo2143]

Counting down the days here. Do we have any estimates on the amount of time it takes to complete the game (not 100%)?

Gamexplain took 12 hours on a first playthrough but it could be an outlier.

 

[yuoke]

I'm still semi-convinced that Federation Force began life as a proof-of-concept attempt at a Metroid Prime 3DS port.

According to tanabe, it was always going to be a spinoff, but he first started working on it around 2009 for the dsi.

 

[Jonneh3003]

Gamexplain took 12 hours on a first playthrough but it could be an outlier.

Took me 7 to finish at any%

 

[Mael]

It's kinda sad that so little talk of this game has sprung up because it looks really intelligently put together unlike the previous two entries.

It's a blessing that it seems like some thoughts went into it.
I don't think they really should are really remaking Return of Samus though.
Zero Mission already took liberties with the original games but here it is drastic to the point that it's more Super Metroid template with additions rather than trying to remake Metroid II.
Can't go 2 steps without finding manmade structures with doors everywhere when the game was going for a way more organic feel to begin with.
Basically you get to a planet with seemingly no intelligent life and your only traces that intelligent life was even there are ruins.
Of course the Metroids control the lava level to protect the queen and all that.

Here it seems like the whole thing was a test by the Chozos with their hands being all over the planet from go.
Also they're reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally pushing the Metroid Prime aesthetic here. You can even hear it in the audio.

 

[13ruce]

Gonna play through the game 20+ times just like Sonic Mania i already have 55 hours on Mania lolz.

@ post above well i love prime so a 2D prime like game is fantastic. Can't wait for dat new Chozo lore and art.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Gamexplain took 12 hours on a first playthrough but it could be an outlier.

Took me 7 to finish at any%

Wow, that's quite the range! I tend to skew towards longer playtimes, so mine may be closer to 12 unless Gamexplain spent a few hours twiddling their thumbs.

 

[Mael]

Gonna play through the game 20+ times just like Sonic Mania i already have 55 hours on Mania lolz.

@ post above well i love prime so a 2D prime like game is fantastic. Can't wait for dat new Chozo lore and art.

Everyone love Prime.
I feel like they edged their bets on making something closer after the disaster of 2010 so that they could at least try to get people who liked Prime games but weren't that interested in 2D Metroid games.
Can't blame them after Zero Mission, it doesn't seem like there's a huge market for what they're trying to do with 2D Metroid's usual aesthetic.

 

[AmayaPapaya]

I was expecting a really short game, so the length sounds great! I think the embargo drops on the 12, so I'll look forward to that.

 

[casey_contra]

I completely forgot this comes out next week.

Between Mario + Rabbids, Splatoon 2, Pokken, and Sonic Mania I'm going to be very busy until Mario Odyssey comes out.

 

[yuoke]

Wow, that's quite the range! I tend to skew towards longer playtimes, so mine may be closer to 12 unless Gamexplain spent a few hours twiddling their thumbs.

Knowing gamexplain, they tend to do that kind of stuff, but I could see maybe a close to 10 hour or so average.

 

[13ruce]

Everyone love Prime.
I feel like they edged their bets on making something closer after the disaster of 2010 so that they could at least try to get people who liked Prime games but weren't that interested in 2D Metroid games.
Can't blame them after Zero Mission, it doesn't seem like there's a huge market for what they're trying to do with 2D Metroid's usual aesthetic.

Yeah agreed and honestly i think it looks great while sure it's 3DS graphics the backgrounds look really cool and neat and i am sure the game will actually look quite good in person.

I prefer this look above the classic 2D metroid looks, those games ofcourse are still super awesome tho.

I was expecting a really short game, so the length sounds great! I think the embargo drops on the 12, so I'll look forward to that.

Same i played through Fusion and Zero Missions in 2-3 hours and 4-5 or so hours for the forst time so 7+ sounds very good.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Wow, that's quite the range! I tend to skew towards longer playtimes, so mine may be closer to 12 unless Gamexplain spent a few hours twiddling their thumbs.

One was answering 100%, the other was any %, hence the range

 

[Jawbreaker]

One was answering 100%, the other was any %, hence the range

Ah, that was their 100% run total?

 

[KingBroly]

Ah, that was their 100% run total?

They got 94%, I think. But Derrick isn't exactly skilled.

 

[Mael]

Yeah agreed and honestly i think it looks great while sure it's 3DS graphics the backgrounds look really cool and neat and i am sure the game will actually look quite good in person.

I prefer this look above the classic 2D metroid looks, those games ofcourse are still super awesome tho.

Well the art design is closer to what Mercury Steam did with Castlevania anyway and the result is really much better anyway.
I mean the Prime games are so good at environment design that you could probably get a picture from any room and be able to pinpoint its exact location from the visuals.
All the rooms are that distinct.
Makes for better exploration when you don't have to rely on the map to navigate anyway.
Hopefully it delivers on more than 1 level.

Same i played through Fusion and Zero Missions in 2-3 hours and 4-5 or so hours for the forst time so 7+ sounds very good.

I hope the special endings are more geared toward completion than just speed.
I don't want the answer btw, I just prefer exploring in my games.

 

[Opa-Pa]

12 hours sounds like they weren't very good at it unless they took their sweet time and got 100% completion. 7 hours sounds quite reasonable and good though.

Do not worry Other M is still terrible. But i can never say that it is worse than FF.

I was a huge detractor of everything involving this game and admittedly I've only played a couple of hours of it, but I really, REALLY doubt it's worse than Other M. FF strikes me as a kinda dull, but competent game that had a lot of awful decisions around it while Other M is a fundamentally flawed game that's a straight up dumpster fire.

Urban Champion is the worst Nintendo game.

I agree.

Other M has to be their worst big budget, home console effort by a country mile though.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

12 hours sounds like they weren't very good at it unless they took their sweet time and got 100% completion. 7 hours sounds quite reasonable and good though.

The 12 hours was for 100% according to the original post

 

[TheMoon]

I mean, the real problem with FF is that Metroid isn't a "missions" shooter, and so that gameplay template was seen as an inauthentic Metroid experience.

Yes, of course it wasn't a "Metroid"-Metroid, but a game set in the Metroid-universe and it never claimed to be anything else.

 

[Nerrel]

So, do you use Select for Dash for something?

Like I said, if you played Super first and built up that muscle memory with a more cumbersome system, I can understand preferring it, but no matter how you slice it you're pressing more buttons for the same functionality in Super Metroid. One button to switch to missiles, another button to shoot them and a third button to cancel them is just a clumsy and inefficient use of the controller, and the GBA games solved that problem perfectly.

Admittedly you still have to use Select to switch between supers and regulars in the GBA games, but you don't really need to rapidly switch back and forth with missile types like you do with your beam and missiles. I pretty much only use super missiles for green doors and bossfights, and when I'm fighting a boss I generally just want to use supers until I run out. Meanwhile I'm pretty much constantly switching between the beam for charge shots or shooting down projectiles or weaker enemies and missiles for stronger enemies or boss weakpoints.

I guess I just don't really have a problem with diagonal shooting not having two dedicated buttons. You can shoot diagonally up or down with the D-pad alone; I honestly can't think of many other sidescrollers that devote even one extra button to diagonal shots, let alone two.

Also, yeah, what button do you use for Dashing if you have both weapon switch and weapon cancel mapped to the face buttons?

Run is set to L
Aim up is ZR
Aim down is R
Missile select is A
Cancel is X
Shoot is Y
Jump is B

Nothing cumbersome about that setup at all (though the default controls do suck pretty badly). I like having speed control, since there are times when I don't necessarily want to speed boost, and I like being able to freely blast missiles without having to hold a trigger to do it. For something like a Ridley fight, where you're going to be emptying your entire missile supply, I think Super's system is better. Not having to hold that extra trigger to shoot does make it easier to aggressively wall jump and aim up and down simultaneously. If you're just quickly blasting a door open, the GBA system is better, but in those casual situations it doesn't really matter. I'm fine with tapping a button, and like I mentioned, if you tap while holding X it cancels itself after firing.

There are other things I prefer about Super, like the jump physics. I like the potential for adjustment and building momentum Super had; the GBA games made Samus feel very heavy and every jump feels pretty much the same. The wall jumping is also a lot stiffer in those games, especially Fusion. I do like the corner grip and shinesparking expansion those games added, though.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've never been bothered by Super's system, but the GBA games regularly get on my nerves. And I've put enough time in them that it's not an issue of bias. I'm not saying they didn't make improvements, just that I still prefer Super overall. Hopefully Samus Returns will have good enough controls that it surpasses both styles.

Some of you are really throwing shit at the wall to make it look like Other M is anything but unadultered crap.

Say what you want about Other M, but it at least had the basic principles of exploration, powerup collecting, and atmosphere that the series is based on. It didn't execute any of them well and subjugated them in favor of storytelling, but it had them. Federation Force didn't even attempt to base itself off any of those things.

 

[LegendofLex]

Yes, of course it wasn't a "Metroid"-Metroid, but a game set in the Metroid-universe and it never claimed to be anything else.

Shockingly

Spoiler

not shockingly

, I think you'll find that very few people care about the Metroid universe without the Metroid gameplay format.

 

[TheMoon]

There is nothing hyperbole about that post. FF is by the worst Nintendo game i have ever played. Past the first mission i had zero fun with that game and it was the only game that made me want to throw my 3DS out the window. It is the only game i regret spending money on. It is the only game that i am shocked that some people defend despite it being a failure on every single conceivable level.

Going by your previous post, it came down to bad netcode that lead to frequent disconnects and you not enjoying the solo game (did you use the drones + lone wolf mod?). You make generalizations when your dislike stems from circumstantial issues.

I'm still semi-convinced that Federation Force began life as a proof-of-concept attempt at a Metroid Prime 3DS port.

it started life as a DSi game.

Shockingly

Spoiler

not shockingly

, I think you'll find that very few people care about the Metroid universe without the Metroid gameplay format.

Oh I'm well aware.

 

[WeirdoStalkerJr]

Looking into getting the Metroid 3ds. Worth it? Or is the Metroid 2 limited edition better?

 

[Living the Dream]

it started life as a DSi game.

And never improved

 

[Mael]

Say what you want about Other M, but it at least had the basic principles of exploration, powerup collecting, and atmosphere that the series is based on. It didn't execute any of them well and subjugated them in favor of storytelling, but it had them. Federation Force didn't even attempt to base itself off any of those things.

Are you joking?
The principles of exploration are dead.
Powerup collecting is made pointless and irrelevant and the atmosphere is shite on sticks.
It's basically the worst parts of the game!
Even StarFox Command did all this better.
Everything in the game is made to go counter everything the Metroid gameplay loop is known for.
It's the perfect anti-Metroid game except that it's billed as the "Ultimate" Metroid game.
an indie game made in a game jam would have better success doing the basic principles right.

 

[thestopsign]

Do we know when the review embargo will be up on this?