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[hey_monkey]

Helping people become better at the game

oh sheesh. I need someone to help me become better tho.

LordOfCastamere - I'm actually kind of wary of you, you actually seem pretty unflustered, with less posts than the other townies on this list but your posts are no nonsense
.....<snipped>....
CornBurrito - your mistakes in this game are borderline silly it seems calculated.

I agree with these two reads. I can't get on board with lynching Stan right now though. I understand the motivation but - and I hate using meta but sometimes you gotta use meta - Stan is kind of a slow burn. I've never seen him do much early; later he's more talkative. But do we have that time in this game? And is he slower than usual getting going? Those are questions we gotta answer, I think.

But I'm sticking with CB for now.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

As for future proofing, it gives a distraction later.

They'll say "Are you the neutral Oreo?" and you'll say "Look at all these numbers I gave that hurt the neutral, would I willingly hurt myself if I was the neutral?" and people will be like "Hmm, I guess not,*shrug* might as well no lynch."

 

[nin1000]

I'm not singling you out. First game I played here was quite the fireworks display, Pineapple Mafia.

Sorry I don't want to beat the dead horse but how is this NOT singling me out

I've only been to three games in this site but I've seen you have problems with aggression and retaining players.

It is directed towards me.

 

[rac]

Scum
StanleyPalmTree - whole lot of nothing
rac - I honestly can't read you, you've probably got more posts than me but none of them feel good.
CornBurrito - your mistakes in this game are borderline silly it seems calculated.

I'm down to lynching any of the three of the people I've listed as scum. Right now, I'll go with

VOTE: StanleyPalmTree

do you think it would be more productive to lynch one of us then, since corn voted for me d1 and we're both seen as inactive

 

[hey_monkey]

As for future proofing, it gives a distraction later.

They'll say "Are you the neutral Oreo?" and you'll say "Look at all these numbers I gave that hurt the neutral, would I willingly hurt myself if I was the neutral?" and people will be like "Hmm, I guess not,*shrug* might as well no lynch."

If anything, I'd say his numbers ignoring some of the neutral possibilities might hurt him, especially if he doesn't expand engagement with the game as the days wear on, but I guess we'll see.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

DAY 2 CURRENT VOTE TALLY:

Sawneeks (1)
flatearthpandas 566 622
flatearthpandas 633

oreomunsta (1)
Lord of Castamere 719

No Lynch (1)
oreomunsta 614
flatearthpandas 622 633
hey_monkey 683 698

isaacnukem (1)
Sawneeks 674

CornBurrito (1)
hey_monkey 698

StanleyPalmtree (1)
isaacnukem 745

nin1000 (0): StanleyPalmtree 635 713

rac (0): Lord of Castamere 554 719

No active vote for Day 2: Christina Mackenzie, CornBurrito, kitsunelaine, Muffin1611, nin1000, rac, StanleyPalmtree (has previously voted), Trigger, Verelios

Day 2 Postcount: Christina Mackenzie 4, CornBurrito 5, flatearthpandas 18, hey_monkey 45, isaacnukem 17, kitsunelaine 8, Lord of Castamere 17, Muffin1611 13, nin1000 13, oreomunsta 18, rac 5, Sawneeks 14, StanleyPalmtree 10, Trigger 12, Verelios 12


Day 2 ends:

8 votes for majority

 

[oreomunsta]

Yeah, which benefits your potential scum allies as much as town, and you've been doing this without much/any contribution to town.

I've provided plenty of numbers as scum too, not hard a bit time consuming maybe, and it makes it look like your doing something.

I just said that I'm treating scum and neutral independently, and highlighted how scum will be killing town every day, but apparently I'm backing up my scum buddies?

As for future proofing, it gives a distraction later.

They'll say "Are you the neutral Oreo?" and you'll say "Look at all these numbers I gave that hurt the neutral, would I willingly hurt myself if I was the neutral?" and people will be like "Hmm, I guess not,*shrug* might as well no lynch."

It takes all of 10 seconds to come up with a strategy like that, LoC. Where I'm putting myself in this game is not the best place for a neutral to be.

If you're trying to pressure me with a vote, that's cool, but this is coming off as you sharpening your knife

 

[Lord of Castamere]

If you're trying to pressure me with a vote, that's cool, but this is coming off as you sharpening your knife

Good, that's how pressure is supposed to feel. Anything else and it's not pressure, its a joke.

 

[CornBurrito]

Vote: nin1000

 

[Muffin1611]

Vote: nin1000

Reasoning?

 

[hey_monkey]

A day and a bit left. No strong clues. Votes still scattered. A bunch of people still under the posting minimum. I'll update my list tonight if there's anything to change.

 

[CornBurrito]

Reasoning?

Posts and voting pattern. At work and on mobile.

This game was much easier when I didnt work.

 

[Trigger]

I'm at work, but I'll try to have something more substantial by the end of the RL day.

 

[Sawneeks]

Saw, come on Saw. You and I both know this is bullshit unless you're pre-empting Nin being scum. I agree that it's good to look back at the votes if he's scum but going from how town operates I doubt they'll care whether he is or not.

Am I not suppose to note the things I see? I don't currently think Nin is Scum but if he happens to turn out to be then boom, we got something to look at. I'm sorry it's getting you all defensive and shade throw-y but that's honestly how it came across to me.

He was doing something? Before I went to bed he was basically at zero contribution, where the most useful thing he'd done was defend himself. Better is a relative term here.

I'm gonna go back and look but did you ever respond to Burb's whole 'dead weight' discussion? I feel like you're saying your CornBro vote was just to get rid of someone who wasn't contributing. :x

Twice now corn has come back with a sheepish "I was embarrassed" response to being called out, tugging at my heartstrings. Tbh, not what I expected but I'm not sure why I had expectations really. Not sure if we've played together before. Anyone else have thoughts there?

Current Thoughts: I have no idea.

I'm planning to go over Day 1 again at some point but CornBro is really a big ol' Null for me right now with his only notables being two mistakes ( which can happen and I don't think are alignment indicative ) and his sudden jump over to Rac. I don't feel great about the latter just because of how sudden it happened and how he just left his vote to the sidelines but that's really all I have right now.

Town
12. [m] CornBurrito (inactive, clearly not reading, but I don't think he's scum)
5. [m] isaacnukem (inactive)
8. [m] Trigger (was reading opposite yesterday, not making bold claims, whining, but I'm not feeling scum)
13. [m] Christina Mackenzie (not enough to judge, meta says he played the same way in Harry Potter as Town)
6. [m] verelios (discussing, lying a little low, but engaging)
7. [f] kitsunelaine (not seeing scum, soft claims, some conversation, but feeling more slow town)
14. [f] hey_monkey (active, decent discussion, no coasting, strong discussion, strong stances)
17. [m] rac (inactive)
4. [m] Muffin1611 (soft claims, bad vote yesterday, but some discussion)

Netural
3. [m] nin1000 (some coasting, some aggression, some caution, I'm not feeling good about nin this game, him and Sawneeks pulled back, him worse, and I don't like that. As a shot in the dark right now, I think that the neutral is with nin or oreo)

15. [f] sawneeks (active but coasting a bit too, good discussion, no strong stances, could be active scum)
10. [m] flatearthpandas and/or 11. [m] StanleyPalmtree, reasons I outlined above.
9. [m] oreomunsta (providing lots of number, not much else, the numbers are focused on neutral, nothing seen that would be town, all of the focus on the arson could be future proofing, makes him look good in hindsight)

I know it's been a bit since you've played LoC but Scum being in the low posters is now a more common occurrence and giving them all a pass for that seems terribly hand wave-y. Also question about your Vere and Muffin read: Vere is engaged but laying low? Muffin had a 'bad vote' and some discussion but yet you both put them as Town? Why?

So I'm on page 5 and the discussion of no lynches is still alive. I'm not sure if anyone has brought it up, but what if we fake vote on these no lynch days? A fake vote is a vote that you would've stuck with on that day's end. This way, we can still track voting patterns and changes to people's reads and get the discussion going.

PS: I'm on camp lynch everyday though

Answering this because I wasn't able to say this yesterday even though I wanted to.

I've been in a game before where Town decided early on what the vote was going to be but just decided to 'play it out' so they could discuss in that time. You want to know what Scum did? They blended in, distanced themselves from partners since they knew they couldn't be lynched, and answered Town's discussion to make it look like they were relatively interested in what was happening. Not only that but Town then tore themselves apart; they started jumping at shadows as people kept talking just to talk and saw Scumtells in every other post. Scum was doing Scummy things in that game but the uncertain air was enough to make Town lynch their own every single time.

Having seen and played against the Town notion of 'well just get Scum to talk and we'll find 'em', it almost never works. Scum get caught because they slip in logic or a vote doesn't make sense, I've rarely seen Scum get lynched just because 'they talked too much'.

so for the people wanting to lynch today

what are you going to do without a flip, continue on the same path or pick a new link?

if on day 4 we have 1 anti-town dead which lead will you follow up on?

what if the anti-town was the arsonist?

Just keep going, there's nothing else we can do with the cards we've been given. Our job is still to lynch Scum/Neutral, that doesn't change just because we don't get info.

if we get 1 anti-town dead on Day 4 then we celebrate because we got it right and then start WIFOM-ing every lynch to various degrees.

Spoiler

i'm only slightly joking :<

If the Anti-Town was the Arsonist we'd have no way to know unless a few Day Phases pass and no one unexpectedly explodes.

 

[Sawneeks]

and because Isaac did get back and actually started contributing

Unvote

gonna grab lunch and start reading some things over.

 

[CornBurrito]

Reasoning?

Work done. Going back to this.

Call it a gut call. Nin's vote for Burb doesn't feel right. He's also one of the top contributing posters but it doesn't feel like he's trying to lead town or provide much useful discourse.

 

[flatearthpandas]

It is directed towards me.

I read it as directed to the community as a whole.

I'm gonna go back and look but did you ever respond to Burb's whole 'dead weight' discussion? I feel like you're saying your CornBro vote was just to get rid of someone who wasn't contributing. :x

I don't think I got involved in that. My bit with corn was separate. But I don't necessarily disagree. My stance is more that no one should get a pass for anything. I'm okay lynching newbies day one, lynching replacements day 0, inactives at any time, etc. But we don't really have time for it and we have votes and at least ten posts a day to judge off. Shoving off dead weight is acceptable d1 maybe given nothing else but we ought to have some actually reason to vote at least someone by now.

 

[Sawneeks]

Sorry, ended up getting distracted and I've got a meeting soon so I'll get back to my re-read/reads list later today.

For now though:

Vote: Muffin1611

And before Vere comes in here and starts saying 'see! see! told you!', this isn't about the Day 1 Votes as this is more of a gut read. I keep forgetting he's in the game and just seems very reserved overall, more like he's reacting than solving.

I don't think I got involved in that. My bit with corn was separate. But I don't necessarily disagree. My stance is more that no one should get a pass for anything. I'm okay lynching newbies day one, lynching replacements day 0, inactives at any time, etc. But we don't really have time for it and we have votes and at least ten posts a day to judge off. Shoving off dead weight is acceptable d1 maybe given nothing else but we ought to have some actually reason to vote at least someone by now.

You never did, no. Although your initial reasoning that I did find for you staying on Corn read more like you thought he was unhelpful - not necessarily that he was Scum? Am I right on that?

 

[kitsunelaine]

Okay, just woke up and caught up.

Vote: Vote: nin1000

I'm not comfortable with the way they've been playing, and feel like it benefits anyone but town. Would be happy to see them gone.

Also, monkey, you podcast? Cool! I don't do anything like that, but I do produce music.

 

[hey_monkey]

I'm part of an angry feminist academic games studies collective, and we podcast. Angrily. It's rather easier than producing music!

So it looks like nin is leading right now because... reasons? I'm having trouble figuring out why (town?) is so uneasy with having conversation in this game. Town runs on information and discussion; why are we playing our cards close here?

 

[Sawneeks]

Sorry, day ended up being busier than I thought it was going to be. Gonna finish that read up now. :x

Vote: Vote: nin1000

Think you might need to fix that, don't think the tool counts it.

 

[hey_monkey]

Updated since the last count:

Day 2 Postcount: Christina Mackenzie 4, CornBurrito 8, flatearthpandas 19, hey_monkey 46, isaacnukem 17, kitsunelaine 9, Lord of Castamere 18, Muffin1611 14, nin1000 13, oreomunsta 19, rac 5, Sawneeks 18, StanleyPalmtree 10, Trigger 13, Verelios 12

Nearly half the players have no vote on the board.

 

[hey_monkey]

I am fine with keeping my vote on CornBurrito for now. I don't see no lynch happening and I'm fine with excising lower activity posters in light of the lack of discussion happening. CB is not only a lower activity poster in this game, but actively muddying the thread and it could be purposeful. Unless something changes in the last 12+ hours, I'm holding that ground.

 

[Verelios]

Sorry, ended up getting distracted and I've got a meeting soon so I'll get back to my re-read/reads list later today.

For now though:

Vote: Muffin1611

And before Vere comes in here and starts saying 'see! see! told you!', this isn't about the Day 1 Votes as this is more of a gut read. I keep forgetting he's in the game and just seems very reserved overall, more like he's reacting than solving.

I'm legitimately shocked you think a gut vote would make me point and and scream less, especially since we have no idea what grounds you're making the suspicion on.

I'm part of an angry feminist academic games studies collective, and we podcast. Angrily. It's rather easier than producing music!

So it looks like nin is leading right now because... reasons? I'm having trouble figuring out why (town?) is so uneasy with having conversation in this game. Town runs on information and discussion; why are we playing our cards close here?

So, quick thought, do you think corn bro is a viable lynch target tomorrow, and do you have any cards you'd like to share.

 

[Sawneeks]

3. [m] nin1000 - Town Gut Read on Day 1 due to his posting style which is just very 'relaxed Nin' and typically just reads Town to me. He's kinda toned it way down this Day Phase though so I'm not terribly confident about him but he's one of the few I Town Lean on so would rather not lynch.

4. [m] Muffin1611 - So I noted already about the vote and I still stand by the fact that if Nin is Scum, Vere/Muffin are ones to look at for potentially trying to save him. HOWEVER, sans that vote, Muffin has just been really, really reserved so far. He's simply reacting more to things than being proactive about them and it strikes me as someone more willing to sit on the sidelines than solve the game. My vote is there now and I'd be willing to lynch him today.

5. [m] isaacnukem - Doing what I kinda want to call the Nin Method ( patent pending ), disappears without a vote on Day 1 and then comes in with a flurry of posts here on Day 2. Didn't really have much on him before but I rather like his reads list that he ended on and it's easy to follow the train of thought as he posts which feels genuine. Light Town Lean.

6. [m] verelios - Here, posting, contributing....also defensive and shade throw-y, seems to like to attack whoever says anything scummy about him. Same thing what I said about Muffin applies here as well in regards to the Day 1 vote. I've got conflicting feelings here, I swap back and forth between Light Scum and Light Town a lot depending on the post. Wouldn't be against a lynch but it wouldn't be who I'd go after today.

7. [f] kitsunelaine - Whooo??? Hasn't really been here a whole lot and nothing really stands out.

8. [m] Trigger - A lot of 'hey, we should do X as that seems like a good direction to go in' without ever really going in that direction themselves. Trigger has always been rather passive in the games I've played with him so I don't know how alignment-indicative that is but I'm not a huge fan of it. Happened at the end of Day 1 with a 'this is a bad lynch' without pushing away and here with suggesting some directions to go in but with no follow-ups. Not against a lynch.

9. [m] oreomunsta - So the problem with Oreo isn't the numbers game going on, in fact it's rather comprehensive despite downplaying the Neutral, but it's the fact that's all he has. His Day 1 vote was an OMGUS against me that didn't go anywhere and wasn't pushed in the slightest, just kinda left out in the open. So far today it's only been defending the No Lynch and then needing to be prodded for a reads list or any scum leans he has since he hasn't done a whole lot. Not feeling great here at all and would not be against the lynch.

10. [m] flatearthpandas - Aggressive feels like the right word here. Only seems to really be concerned about lynching those who aren't being actively helpful, but his logic for this has been consistent over these 2 Day Phases at the very least. Itty-bitty Town Lean.

11. [m] StanleyPalmtree - Stan the Man, still have trouble reading him in this game as well. Day 1 he threw around votes a bit but never really backed them up or explained them, just kinda plopped them down and that's it. Feel like he's kinda 'wishy-washy' this time around with a lot of 'buts' and 'maybes', just seems 'here' but not engaged. He's asked a few questions that I've liked though and I kinda agree with Monkey on the 'wait and see' approach. Would not be against his lynch either though.

12. [m] CornBurrito - I feel like I've stated this before but there's not a whole lot happening right now. Two mistakes, which I still don't think are alignment indicative at all, and then a weird hop over to Rac when he gets suddenly scared by the idea of the Arsonist. Then just ups and vanishes by Day End, leaving his vote to just sit by and rot. He never got back to my initial thoughts regarding his Day 1 vote ( or anyone I asked, actually... ) and doesn't seem to still be on Rac's case or anyone else's for that matter. Would not be against lynch.

13. [m] Christina Mackenzie - Strong out of the gate on Day 1 only to just vanish today. With the way the post count is going I'm almost thinking replacement at this point so we'll see.

14. [f] hey_monkey - Active, contributing, pushing discussion. Probably my Top Townie right now just due to how she's pushing everything along, though I still keep getting the feeling she's conforming more to other's opinions this time around and it weirds me out.

15. [f] sawneeks - 2 sketchy would lynch

16. [m] LordOfCastamere - Here, discussing, pushing some things along. Was hell-bent on lynching Fire on Day 1 and then gets upset at Rac and votes for him for not voting, then argues with Oreo a bit. He's here but...call it a gut feeling I guess, not feeling super certain. Itty-bitty Town Lean just because he's one of the few actually contributing but something feels off to me and I can't place it.

17. [m] rac - Whole lotta nothin'. Has been here, slightly defended his no vote on Day 1 and has just sort of popped in every now and then to ask to ask broad questions then leaves again. Null, honestly.

I'm leaving my vote where it is right now and, honestly, I'm only really against lynching Monkey, Isaac, FEP, LoC, and Nin. Everyone else is up to varying degrees as I either don't have anything on them or don't feel great about them.

 

[hey_monkey]

So, quick thought, do you think corn bro is a viable lynch target tomorrow, and do you have any cards you'd like to share.

With half the players not voting, who could say? I'm more interested in why CB and others think nin is. What about YOUR cards?

 

[Sawneeks]

I'm legitimately shocked you think a gut vote would make me point and and scream less, especially since we have no idea what grounds you're making the suspicion on.

So you get mad at me but not Kits, CornBro, or others who don't explain votes? Thanks, Vere. </3

and honestly I was more hoping Muffin would pop back in since then but if you want quotes:

Shutting down discussion ( which I noted earlier ):

Drawing possibilites from the votes doesn't really seem like an option today either, votes are spread pretty evenly between several different players. FB also "won" barely.

Runs over the lynch v no lynch discussion:

So, if I understand everyone so far correctly, no lynch would buy more time for town generally, but runs the risk of the neutral igniting on specific days which would bork our info we get. Then again, it might be in the neutrals best interest not to garner that much attention and they would end up in a position where they'd get lynched by scum.

Is that basically it? Because then No Lynch would seem like the best option to me. I'm open to discuss if we should turbo it or use the day more, though.

M E T A and a soft joke response to Monkey:

This meta is really deep to think about. Thanks for the writeup, that we could never be sure if a scum death was lynched or ignited didn't even cross my mind.



The same could be said about your D1 votes

Observations about the Neutral and Anti-Town number:

We also probably won't be 100% aware if neutral gets lynched that they're gone, right? Since they're counted as "anti-town" just like scum. So we'll be pretty much constantly operating under the assumption that neutral is alive.

'Scum read Nin on a gut read but I've been wrong on Fire ( and LB2 example ) so I don't know and I'm a bit lost.' Aka the Scum-tactic of using a mislynch as an excuse to be worried about a future mislynch so you can easily absolve guilt when the targets flips Town. Seen it, used it before myself, and this response was towards Trigger's question of who Muffin is suspicious of. He only gives Nin, no one else, and hasn't shown much interest in pushing others either and just seems to sit by.

Hard to say. My gut feeling on Nin is the same as yersterday, but I also scumread Fireblend all the same for playing kind of lazy and weird in contrast to his play in LB2 which was very coolheaded. This might be just me not really liking Nins kind of rapid post with some hidden aggressiveness and only sometimes with substance play style (i know Nin is going to say he isn't playing aggressive again, but that's just how it seems to me and apparently some others as well).

It was the same with Ouro in LB2 (well, a rather extreme example though). I constantly scumread him because his posts seemed to be entirely in bad faith and lazy and anti-town etc. etc. and he turned out to be town. Might be that I'm doing the same again to a lesser degree.

So to answer your question, not really. I'm currently trying to change my line of thinking a bit and see if some of the high activity and long post-posters seem deceptive to me in what they do, or if they seem to be doing something with a potentially bad intention. I have to say, not an easy task.

General response to Oreo:

To be perfectly honest oreo, I don't really see how this was needed to be held back or would be helping neutral if stated, it's a pretty obvious thing mechanic-wise and I would assume the neutral is perfectly aware of that.

Nothing wrong in mentioning it, but this is a pretty obvious take to have.

Kind of a weird 'Scum would never be SO BOLD/act so out in the open' defense that's, frankly, a bit WIFOM-y.

I can understand that, but isn't that a bit of a too flashy position for scum to take? I kinda put myself out there by breaking the tie this way. I'd expect scum to be not quite that risky in the beginning.

So far the only real push at anything I've seen and it wasn't ever followed up:

...That still doesn't answer my question about misdirecting on the neutral, oreo :/ I have no clue what I or the other two have done in that direction.

BASICALLY, he's passive and not active. Sure he's posting and responding to people but isn't pushing much outside of that and, if he is, it's not followed up or pursued much further. It's a very 'I'm here but not doing much' style that reads to me like he's rather disinterested in the proceeding and doesn't care, just needs enough to get by.

 

[Verelios]

That's all I wanted from you Saw <3

With half the players not voting, who could say? I'm more interested in why CB and others think nin is. What about YOUR cards?

Are we playing them monkey games or...? Your response to a question is to Jedi mind force it back to me? Fine, I guess, there are some people I'm uneasy about, such as Oreo and Trigger.

 

[nin1000]

If I die tonight that's ok but if the heat will become more and more I will of course try to defend myself.

This will be seen as an omgus vote but between all the other players I am most happy with this one leaving the camp

Vote: kitsunelaine

The matter of the fact that she did not even bother to fix that vote gives me enough reason for now to see her go.

 

[nin1000]

Today of course.

This game sure feels like a coasting game.

 

[rac]

Vote: CornBurrito

omgus and all that

voting for me for being inactive and being inactive

comes in to make a few posts witch was followed up by a lord read list that puts inactives as town

sawneeks explained that scum like to hide there much more now, but i still have a wired feeling about it

 

[Christina Mackenzie]

I think nin1000 is tied with sawneeks at the moment with 2 votes? Count tool isn't working so I might be mistaken.

Maybe Muffin1611 panicked and move his vote off at the last minute D1 to avoid lynching his scum buddy nin1000. That's one lead we can choose to pursue.

So from those with the most number of votes at the end of Day 1 (2 votes or more)

Burbeting (2)
Cornburrito (2)
nin1000(2)
Trigger (2)
Fireblend (4)

With both Fireblend and Burbeting are gone, there might be a scum among Cornburrito, nin1000 and Trigger. WIFOM if you think that's why they did in Burbeting. I however think that it's more likely that scum was not among the lynch candidates on Day 1 and decided to spread their votes elsewhere.

I've not seen much from StanleyPalmtree that makes me think he's town. Lots of joke posts between him and nin1000 on Day 1. I could have also gone with kitsunelaine, her last post on Day 1 about not burning the house down comes off like she's trying to attract an investigator.

VOTE: StanleyPalmtree

Getting this sense of deja vu, like how there were multiple candidates tied near the end of the day.

 

[hey_monkey]

That's all I wanted from you Saw <3

Are we playing them monkey games or...? Your response to a question is to Jedi mind force it back to me? Fine, I guess, there are some people I'm uneasy about, such as Oreo and Trigger.

You're demanding more from people but this is all you give. That's why I turned it back to you.

 

[kitsunelaine]

Sorry, day ended up being busier than I thought it was going to be. Gonna finish that read up now. :x



Think you might need to fix that, don't think the tool counts it.

Oh. Thanks.

Vote: nin1000

 

[kitsunelaine]

If I die tonight that's ok but if the heat will become more and more I will of course try to defend myself.

This will be seen as an omgus vote but between all the other players I am most happy with this one leaving the camp

Vote: kitsunelaine

The matter of the fact that she did not even bother to fix that vote gives me enough reason for now to see her go.

I was too busy going to an event where grown men fight each other on top of a box with ropes around it for our entertainment, but okay, sorry for having a life

 

[hey_monkey]

The longest post incoming. Vere pushing others for more without giving anything himself was bugging me but I couldn't quite frame why. It helps discussion, right? But I went back through his posts and what I'm seeing is basically a few short things:
-flipflopping on lynch v no lynch after taking a strong anti-no lynch position d1, but not really explaining it (and not carrying through, either - seemed more like trying to go with flow instead of taking a position)
-mechanics/approach talk (which is NAI this game; everyone did it)
-not following thorugh with investigative efforts but prodding others (see also: Sawneeks as scum)
-defense

Thanks Bear, you're still the worst.

I don't think restricting town from claiming 'I'm town!' or some variation of 'You're making a HUGE mistake because I'm town!' is a feasible option. When someone's on the lynching block they may act erratically, say whatever to prove their innocence or cave under pressure, even blurting the above out when agitated. It's going to be a clusterfuck to word police all game, that it really isn't worth it.

Anyway, best option is for Hypnotist to claim whenever they feel necessary.

Not hugely indicative here but maybe of note because it's one of several posts against efforts to try to reconsider how we play this game.

No adjustment, either git gud or go home.

On the topic of lynch or no lynch, I'm going to go for lynch, always. I don't want to give scum and arsonist time to plan and prepare, I don't want to give them leeway and I especially don't want town getting complacent because there's no incentive to scum hunt today. Dead air has to be scum's favorite mode of progress and I'll be damned if I let that happen.

quoting here because later he says he's not against a no-lynch on d2. Also says he's anti dead air but his efforts to advance have been... lackluster. See also:

Honestly? I have literally zero cares to give, no lynch just doesn't sit well with me when I can't see a big negative for not lynching today. Do you agree or disagree with what I said?

and then the turn:

I mean... I'm not against a no lynch today but what are our contingencies? What happens if we get a town check tomorrow, should our cop claim? Probably not. Hypnotist? Would be garbage using it on such a big pool but runs the risk of getting NKed before using it.

Then where do we go tomorrow?

Prods/questions:

That plays a little to close into 'All those against me shall DIE' territory for me Monkey.

And by that, I'm asking if you're automatically scum reading people who disagree?

Because he just dropped a note that he'd be busy and would only come around tomorrow. It's not like I was intentionally singling you out, that mentality just seemed weird and you were likely to answer.

You've been really strange today Nin, like you're dropping in lines between lines to seem active.

What's going on bro?

That's a bold play cotton, let's see if it works out for them. Why don't you think Saw couldn't be scum? I haven't seen anything to sway me either way day 1 but you seem pretty confident.

Does this mean you're interested in a Fire lynch? Seems like you pre-empt it by saying he might be town but then 'I want to make sure so wouldn't mind the lynch'. Seems like an odd stance.

Can you elaborate on your Burb vote Saw? I think you got around to why you generally suspect him but not any specifics.

I mean...that very much sounds like a neutral reading, same as I have. I'm just surprised and a little disconcerted at how readily you're checking Saw's town boxes on day 1. Reminds me too much of Pokemon Mafia.

not a question as such, but basically a question:

?

I don't think Stan is in contention so you could have always changed your vote. This reads like absolving guilt.

To be sure, when you say unconfident what do you mean specifically? You didn't think anyone was scum, or you didn't want to put yourself in a position of hitting town?

Saw, come on Saw. You and I both know this is bullshit unless you're pre-empting Nin being scum. I agree that it's good to look back at the votes if he's scum but going from how town operates I doubt they'll care whether he is or not.

Yeah, I know, but pre-supposing our lynches on scattered day 1 votes made to [/I]protect Nin[/I] is ridiculous garbage. Any reason is good enough for suspicion but at least make it convincing before throwing up torches. It sounds like you don't care who gets lynched so long as you seem productive.

I'm legitimately shocked you think a gut vote would make me point and and scream less, especially since we have no idea what grounds you're making the suspicion on.


So, quick thought, do you think corn bro is a viable lynch target tomorrow, and do you have any cards you'd like to share.

That's all I wanted from you Saw <3

Are we playing them monkey games or...? Your response to a question is to Jedi mind force it back to me? Fine, I guess, there are some people I'm uneasy about, such as Oreo and Trigger.

All of these - poking, questioning, but not offering much up at all. In face. Vere hasn't really taken a stance, except against Saw semi-coming for him. Nor has he followed through with some promised scum-hunting:

Yikes...time to get brainstorming. Maybe Burb was onto something, maybe it was a random kill, we've gotta start somewhere so I'll start with that.

You say that as if anything else we could investigate right now wouldn't be circumstantial. It's at least better to have an analysis of Burb's posts and a theory for why he might have died than not have one and flounder around.

Yeah, I agree with you. There's a lot of other things to discuss (right?) and we shouldn't get hampered down on speculation and theory crafting. Just felt like you were saying it was moot thinking about Burb's death.

So what happened, Vere? All you wanted to do today after your first appearance was turn things back on others? As you said to Sawneeks, do you just want to look productive?

Here are the Vere posts that I feel do demonstrate some productivity. What I don't know is if they are genuine, because there's not much:

The ironic thing is that this never works. Policy lynching low activity posters doesn't motivate other low activity posters because they know you'll have to look elsewhere eventually.

This could be townie. It could also be part of a larger effort to clear out more vocal/active posters and leave a coasting game scum could easily win.

Hm? How didn't I notice Fire didn't give a reason for his nin vote. Was that a prod? How are you going to prod but not expand on it?

Vote:Fireblend

Wait...was this the reasoning?

The info around his vote for Fire.

So...what I'm getting here if I understand you correctly is that you have some reasons for suspicion and are therefore interested in pursuing them. Reasons. Like, you don't have any of your own, but wouldn't mind piggybacking on a lynch. If you have reasons for doubt, I'm willing to hear them.

I'm not above being lynched, I'm lynched every other game, that's not the problem. No one should be absolved from guilt until their alliance is known. My problem is when people, like you're doing now, throw shit at me for the general reasoning of because 'I felt like it'. That's not suspicion. That's illogical hearsay. That's busywork.

I'm sure I'll hear some variation of this from him. This, though, is somewhat legit reasoning. The only problem is that it's only in defense; he's not playing any offense. Town doesn't win through defense.

It wasn"t my intention to be aggressive, if you saw it like that then sorry, my bad. Just wanted to convey how fucked it feels being on the other side of town apathy where I can get lynched for nonsense reasons and garbage swing votes, just because it doesn't matter to them in the long run. And then when we lose the game it's like some magical scales fall from their eyes and they suddenly see the light: All of.a sudden they regret swing lynching and it's their fault but not really, maybe I shouldn't have been so scummy and-

Can you feel the exasperation?

This feels townie. This is the only thing that really feels townie from me. But in light of everything else, it could well be performative, a calculated move to look so exasperated because that doesn't really come through in his other posts, not like this.

Follow-up to come.

 

[hey_monkey]

I'm torn now between Verelios and CornBurrito. CB has made mistakes, yes, and mistakes are NAI. BUT not reading the thread, not paying attention, in a way that results from misinformation that has to be cleared up and will only get cleared up if someone is paying attention? I don't know that he's scum, but I feel like town has a lot more reason to read a thread carefully than scum. That said, I know there are skimmers.

I'll sit for a bit and see where others go. But right now, these are the two places I have my primary attention.

 

[Muffin1611]

So, catched up. I see your arguments Sawneeks, and as they don't strike me as dishonest or forced, I'll keep them in mind.

About not following up on oreo, you're right, I should have done that. As you noticed I only made one quick post to CB about his vote reasoning when I popped in for a second. I wasn't really able to look over posts again timewise to give informed opinions. And as much as my answer to Trigger seems like an old tactic or something, it was a genuine concern to me.

As of right now, there are two people I'd be ready to lynch today: Nin and oreo. While I had concerns over my read on Nin, after thinking long about it it hasn't changed, and "maybe my gut is wrong" isn't strong enough to dispell my concerns.

Oreos mentioning of people misdirecting on the neutral and then not really following up and saying his scum list is maybe gonna answer my question (it didn't) and then saying the scum list isn't necessary related to the neutral misdirection (why not) and just making vague statements that some people (who exactly) seemed to misdirect on it while he tried to make it clearer (okay, he did some good calculations earlier, but that thing about igniting only once or every other day really wasn't some new important info as he tried to make it seem) just seems overall...inconsistent to me. It's weird behaviour.

Besides those two I guess low-activity posters come into question for me, after Burbs whole dead weight argument. The question would be which, and I'm not sure on that.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

DAY 2 CURRENT VOTE TALLY:

nin1000 (2)
StanleyPalmtree 635 713
CornBurrito 759
kitsunelaine 784

CornBurrito (2)
hey_monkey 698
rac 781

StanleyPalmtree (2)
isaacnukem 745
Christina Mackenzie 782

kitsunelaine (1)
nin1000 779

Muffin1611 (1)
Sawneeks 768

No Lynch (1)
oreomunsta 614
flatearthpandas 622 633
hey_monkey 683 698

Sawneeks (1)
flatearthpandas 566 622
flatearthpandas 633

oreomunsta (1)
Lord of Castamere 719

rac (0): Lord of Castamere 554 719

isaacnukem (0): Sawneeks 674 765

No active vote for Day 2: Muffin1611, StanleyPalmtree (has previously voted), Trigger, Verelios

Day 2 Postcount: Christina Mackenzie 5, CornBurrito 8, flatearthpandas 19, hey_monkey 53, isaacnukem 17, kitsunelaine 11, Lord of Castamere 18, Muffin1611 15, nin1000 15, oreomunsta 19, rac 6, Sawneeks 20, StanleyPalmtree 10, Trigger 13, Verelios 14


Day 2 ends:

8 votes for majority

 

[Muffin1611]

Forgot to vote.

VOTE: oreomunsta

Mind you, Nin still comes into question for me, but I don't think that I'm gonna hear anything interesting from him today. So a few hours before day end, I'm gonna pressure oreo a bit to follow up and then decide if I'm gonna stay on him or not.

 

[hey_monkey]

Oh. Thanks.

Vote: nin1000

are you planning to elaborate on why beyond a vague "doesn't benefit town?"

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

welp, i guess i will just be going for a gut-ish vote more than anything.

vote: kitsunelaine

i do hope nin doesn't go, he is probably the only one i feel genuinely townie on right now.

 

[Muffin1611]

If I would have to name players I feel townie on and don't want to lose today it probably would be monkey and LoC

Spoiler

and me

.

 

[rac]

If I would have to name players I feel townie on and don't want to lose today it probably would be monkey and LoC

Spoiler

and me

.

don't think you will lose them today since there is no pressure there at the moment

so which one is scum monkey or loc?

 

[Muffin1611]

don't think you will lose them today since there is no pressure there at the moment

so which one is scum monkey or loc?

I don't understand the question

Since both feel townie to me, neither?

 

[rac]

I don't understand the question

Since both feel townie to me, neither?

i dunno just find it weird to worry about people that have 0 chance of being lynched today

 

[Muffin1611]

i dunno just find it weird to worry about people that have 0 chance of being lynched today

I'm not exactly worrying, I just meant this as my general townie reads

There are too many people I feel entirely neutral on, so I thought it'd be worth noting.

 

[Christina Mackenzie]

Unless my maths is wrong, we have 5 players currently sitting on 2 votes each with only Trigger and Verelios yet to vote.

nin1000
CornBurrito
StanleyPalmtree
kitsunelaine
oreomunsta

 

[oreomunsta]

So, doesn't look like No Lynch is happening :/ those of us who are on board with it didn't get a majority, so we'll be losing a day if another town gets lynched.

I'm perfectly aware that I'm voting against someone who voted on me for the second day in a row, but at least you're on my short list, Muffin

Vote: Muffin1611

As for your post!

Forgot to vote.

VOTE: oreomunsta

I'm gonna pressure oreo a bit to follow up and then decide if I'm gonna stay on him or not.

The neutral is a bit of a ticking time bomb situation. We don't know when they'll ignite, and who they'll take out. So they are a very dangerous threat to town, especially in the later game, but after I ran the numbers, it's clear that they still aren't the bigger threat to town than mafia, who have several team members that need to be taken care of in order for that threat to dissipate, versus one member of the neutral group.

I hate having to constantly bring this stuff up, because I'm looking like the neutral's best friend, and they're probably getting a crack out of me doing this, but when I see discussion focus on the threat of neutral over scum, I feel like we're focusing on the wrong thing.

Muffin, I feel like you're trying to misdirect the conversation softly through some of your posts. Sawneeks did a great analysis up above that I'm in agreement with.

That put you on my short list for scum picks, but your pressure vote on me with little time left in the day is sealing the deal for me.

 

[Christina Mackenzie]

I'm not exactly worrying, I just meant this as my general townie reads

There are too many people I feel entirely neutral on, so I thought it'd be worth noting.

No love for sawneeks?