(Ars Technica) Loot boxes have reached a new low with Forza 7s pay to earn option
- Thread starter Toadthemushroom
- Start date
Well just think where they will be come Horizon 4.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
We don't cater to their needs
We as consumers are not tied to it, we purchase a product we feel that the price justifies it
This is like others who come and harp bu... bu.. But developers and their families have to keep the lights on... So?
Am I suppose to find every fucking developer now?, Cause I guarantee you most have families
Devs and Pubs present a product, we buy
Price it too high, we don't buy
Price it right, but add MTs that hurt enjoyment or obscure the boundaries of fairness, people will wait and see, most don't buy
The industry might be chasing for fast money, but in the long run hurt themselves
Yes the publishers will survive and move onto the next quick money making scheme
Went from DLC to Map Packs to MT to Online Passes to MT in GaaS to Season Pass to Loot Boxes and whatever the future may hold
Along the way there's a fuckton of dead developer houses that publishers forced those I'll gotten gains
Tgey were shuttered in the process cause sooner or later (mostly later) the consumer literally votes with their wallet and says no as a collective, so devs feel it in the end
By then the new wave(s) of squeezing dollars starts getting seeped into titles
BigEmil
Junior Member
No doubt they will inevitably soon, they see the western Devs all get away with it and get lots of free income they would want that too
deadscreensky
Member
I liked them in 6, though to be fair I barely played it. (I don't own an Xbox.) They didn't feel particularly intrusive either.
I hate loot boxes in general, the psychological aspects are gross as hell. But none of what I'm reading here seems like a new low, not even slightly. I wish other games let me disable real money transactions in the options.
Audioboxer
Member
They were a generation behind on HD towns, so the loot boxes might come for the PS5 and Xbox Two.
Japan might do a China anyway and demand drop rates which chases off developers and publishers when they need to let gamers know they have a 0.1% chance (sometimes will be this low) of something good per spin.
Blizzard were that scummy they immediately went to task to find a loophole around Chinas demands ~ http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1385862
SpideySenses
Member
Never had a problem with loot boxes in FM6 but having gone back to FM5 due to it being a GwG title, I have to admit that that it being more streamlined feels way better. I know it's a lesser game and generally you can ignore that stuff but it's nice to race and not even have to look at that stuff.
wapplew
Member
They run well oiled gatcha machine on mobile, just haven't bring them on full priced game yet.
Yep, it's a worry. Halo 6 after successful Halo 5 REQs. You go deeper and broader.
What other form of entertainment promotes being able to spend money to skip content?
Imagine if a movie studio said spend $12 to watch the movie, and then an extra $3 to skip right to the end. Books have cliff notes, but I read those because the main book was to long and boring to read. Jim Sterling put it best when it said microtransactions devalue the game because they are saying that it's not worth playing...just pay us money to skip to the good parts.
Imagine if a movie studio said spend $12 to watch the movie, and then an extra $3 to skip right to the end. Books have cliff notes, but I read those because the main book was to long and boring to read. Jim Sterling put it best when it said microtransactions devalue the game because they are saying that it's not worth playing...just pay us money to skip to the good parts.
NullPointer
Member
The main differences between F7 and F6 mod/credits as I understand them:
Forza 6 had two tracks to permanently increase CR gains, by either disabling certain assists (variable bonuses) or buying into VIP status (double credit rewards). Mod cards could be used and/or consumed to gain CR bonuses. You could only buy mods via in-game credits.
Forza 7 has eliminated permanent CR gain tracks. Disabling assists has no bearing on rewards. Mod cards can be consumed to gain CR bonuses. You can only buy mods via in-game credits right now, but will soon be able to buy them (in prize boxes with other items as well) with real money through tokens.
Somebody let me know if this is inaccurate.
Edit:
Forza 6 had two tracks to permanently increase CR gains, by either disabling certain assists (variable bonuses) or buying into VIP status (double credit rewards). Mod cards could be used and/or consumed to gain CR bonuses. You could only buy mods via in-game credits.
Forza 7 has eliminated permanent CR gain tracks. Disabling assists has no bearing on rewards. Mod cards can be consumed to gain CR bonuses. You can only buy mods via in-game credits right now, but will soon be able to buy them (in prize boxes with other items as well) with real money through tokens.
Somebody let me know if this is inaccurate.
Edit:
Rellik
Member
Delete this now before they see and use this.
clarknova156
Member
Loot crates/boxes are ruining gaming from every end. There is going to be a serious backlash one day. It's one thing for a F2P game but full price $60 game? Absurd.. and truly unregulated gambling.
Holy shit. They will do it 100%
A so called complete/ultimate/whatever version is more than $60 and sold day one in many cases. Publishers will take every revenue stream they can get. Game that is $100, they won't take out micro transactions. They can make more money, that's the reason.
Fox Mulder
Member
Pay rent on your virtual garage space. Pay shipping costs to fly a car to a race at Bathurst.
Jaguar Victory
Member
I have successfully implemented this system for years.
Forza rewards website has given me a shit ton of CR too so I can't complain.
Maintenance
Member
Audioboxer
Member
To be fair I'm sure the Tales of Series has "speed up/exp gain" MTs and things like that. MGS5 was full of MTs too. So while the loot boxes maybe aren't fully in Japanese games, the MTs are.
My biggest worry next isn't Japan, but Bethesda/Gearbox. Lootboxes in Fallout as Vault-Tec lunchboxes and in Borderlands because it's a loot game. Now that we're seeing them in SP games like Shadow of Mordor, they'll spread to many more games. Once Bethesda have the paid for mods well and truly underway, and ported Skyrim to mobile phones and calculators, I'm sure they'll get the loot boxes going.
I'll disown From Software if they ever do loot boxes or MTs in a Souls game.
People are inpatient = profit. People will spend money and set the trends for want games and money making features are used. The only way to stop this is mass outrage or regulation. I just ignore it, but others actually use it. That's the big problem.
NullPointer
Member
The problem with that is that its too easy to see the connection between the price paid and the benefit gained.
These schemes are usually far more indirect, to make it difficult to figure out the money paid / time spent for the resulting reward. So instead of buying fuel, you'll pay some real money (or real money backed virtual currency or tokens) to buy some other in-game virtual currency that allows you to buy something else that provides some bulk amount of fuel, or some item or status that makes the fuel deplete slower.
Its always got to be something indirect and shady.
Either way, the push lately has been to get players used to using in-game storefronts that mix both in-game items and real-money items, to make it such a common occurrence that its only one quick, small and instant step away from spending real money.
This is again why I heap praise on Respawn for Titanfall 2's DLC. You can plainly see what you get for your money spent. Its one-to-one with no price misdirection or RNG elements. And of course all of the game's maps and modes are free.
Yup Turn 10 tried it with Forza 5 and it was a big issue than but both of the forza horizon games this gen implementionations have been great and now are just reimplementing crap like this. I don't like how they have stopped rewarding people for turning off assists even if I don't turn off most assists. I also have a big issue with how they are handling the VIP model in Forza 7 as well.
Audioboxer
Member
Space buuuuuuuux.
Which is why in NBA 2K18 even $1.99 gives you 5,000 coins. That sounds like a lot of coins! Even although a haircut might cost you 2,500 coins or something (yes you can buy fucking haircuts), when you're on the screen to swipe that credit card the psychology behind space bux and the ludicious currency numbers is to make you think this sounds like good value.
Get 200,000 FREE*
*when you spend $100 fucking dollars on an annual sports title.
3/10 review was deserved in principle for how scummy and preying this is getting in $60 products. Bring on the reviewers/journalists with big balls, metaphorically speaking, who start trashing these games in review scores. Watch even more scummy devs and publishers only flip the switch for MTs/loot boxes a week after release to avoid reviews.
Pretty much. It's just an ongoing credit sink - something the game needed - and it helps fulfill the currently popular need for 'winning' something with loot boxes.
A worthwhile addition I'd say is that both FM6 and FM7 have the option to totally disable the real-money "token" feature's visibility in the interface through a menu option. I think credit where it's due is important.
Sales for AAA titles such as these have also risen dramatically, as have revenue from reasonably implemented and priced DLC. Cost of production has not risen so greatly since 2011 that these lootboxes, a relatively new problem, could even possibly be the only answer.
Zombie James
Banned
And let's not forget all the overtime publishers never pay and the tax evasion.
Maintenance
Member
ilikesanta
Member
It's awful I have to spend in game money so I can get mods to earn more in game money. Someone think of the gamers! /s
Seriously you can buy loot boxes with in game credits, it's not a big deal.
Seriously you can buy loot boxes with in game credits, it's not a big deal.
lol exactly- all of the borderline illegal shit too, how could I forget.
I love when people try to spin something that is an obvious degradation into something that is beneficial.
"Remember that thing you liked that was unlimited? It's now limited. Yay!"
Man I really like the Forza crew. They've spent the last 4 years implementing MTs in a way that never felt invasive. But this shit right here...
What difference does it really make? Even if you turn them off, you can't turn off how Forza has been changed to accommodate them. Putting them out of sight doesn't remove their poisonous nature.
Also, I think it's a bad idea to "give credit" for a putting a fig leaf over the creeping intrusion of monetized casino psychology into full-priced games. They can have credit when they take them out entirely.
Audioboxer
Member
JackAubrey
Member
Some rubbish typed by tired idiot.
Audioboxer
Member
JackAubrey
His name isn't Jack, it's Dan Greenawalt
(Today, 08:23 PM)
Some people do think like that, but a lot of these games are subtly fine-tuning themselves to longer grinds or some sort of minor frustration to encourage people to spend. That and a lot of cosmetic content that was once easily 100% earned in the game is either being shoved into loot boxes, being exclusive to MTs or part of longer than previous grinds (again to frustrate and encourage spending).
For a response to your post, you can either wait 72 hours or purchase a response box. Each response box has a chance to include a relevant rebuttal:
1. Bronze Response Box: $2.50
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Sir Blaming
Member
Wow, this is literally the slippery slope argument happening rn.
I guess everyone is going to try until no one can do it anymore (like military shooters)
I guess everyone is going to try until no one can do it anymore (like military shooters)
You can literally assess the game with no influence from the real-money element using that option. If the game isn't fun in that context then criticize it for that, but being able to completely strip out the heart of the problem-content with a toggle is almost perfect. When money isn't part of the equation, it's just a game economy system. I did my best to explain earlier why I think the prize boxes were put in at all:
JackAubrey
Member
WTF?
Jubenhimer
Member
I don't have a problem with loot boxes as long as it's just fun cosmetic stuff like in Overwatch. But when you start including things that change the gameplay, like what this supposedly does, then that's where it crosses the line.
Audioboxer
Member
It's a light-hearted joke from Dan (Forza dev) having to respond on Twitter to anger about VIP http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=250429988#post250429988
This
Just sounded like something the devs would want to say, but wouldn't dare try to publicly
JackAubrey
Member
I agree when they add real world money to these loot boxes it's utter bullshit.
But in terms of the system within the game now, without using real money, it's a neat feature which I like.
So I'm by no means saying it's okay for them to add real money to this later.
But in terms of the system within the game now, without using real money, it's a neat feature which I like.
So I'm by no means saying it's okay for them to add real money to this later.
That is exactly what they are doing.
