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[The ๖ۜBronx]

Practically everything is presented in some form of lore context, but it's also really easy to ignore all of it if you don't care. It presents itself dead serious most of the time.

Neat, I'll check it out this week - thanks.

 

[GlamFM]

Its less of whether they know what they're doing and more of the fact that it's a matter of design philosophy on their part

Either way, they should take a hard look at Y2 and Y3 of D1 in order to improve further.

Reposting because last post on previous page..

I think they should take a look at Y1 and the game they actually wanted to make back then.

The narrative that Destiny was basically garbage until TTK fixed everything has been very hurtful to the game.

IMO TTK broke more than it fixed. TTK came in like a huge equalizer. Nothing mattered - everything was the same.

My personal theory (tinfoil hat ON) is that every big outlet rated the OG Destiny too low because they did not understand it. But when you look at it EVERY big outlet had a group of people stuck with it HARD. Polygon, IGN, GiantBomb, Kotaku - at some point they must have felt weird still playing a game they gave a 6.5 to.

TTK was the ultimate chance to finally give this game what it deserved in the first place and going forward the narrative (D1 garbage TTK great) was set.

I think Bungie drew the wrong conclusions.

 

[Švejk]

I wish I found the aesthetic of Warframe enticing, as that and the TPP puts me off jumping in. That said, it consistently receives praise so it seems like it's something I should check out as my initial impressions could be gating me from something I'd enjoy. How much lore is there in the game and how [if any] is it presented? For all its faults the universe of Destiny is one that I enjoy immensely.



Not this nonsense again. Just because a good game is F2P doesn't mean you should question why you're having to pay money for others.

LOL. Go give Warframe a try.

 

[MaKTaiL]

My problem with Warframe always goes back to the fact that any group content is purely about speed. Whenever I end up in a pick up group to do a mission you’ll have several members shoot off at 2000 miles an hour, and you’ll spend the rest of the time desperately chasing them until it’s complete. It feels like the range of speed mods in the game is too high, or that it matches people with extreme gear with newbies too much which creates unfunny situations.

 

[Listonosh]

While I really like warframe, no way do they implement that complicated of a system in destiny... just no way. Also while the gameplay is solid... destiny is just that much better in the feel of combat that warframe imo.

I don't think anyone is arguing that. I also don't think the article suggests any sort of gameplay refinement. What Bungie has in terms of "game feel" is perfection. What they need to work on is scalable content.

Once I reached 304-305, I immediately felt way less pressured to log in and play, because there wasn't anything for me to attain at that point. It's the first weekend since it launched that I haven't played. Exotics? Maybe like 1 or 2 that I don't have. Armor? Sure, if I want an entire set and beat my head against the Raid over and over. But that in no way is meaningful content I'm trying to attain.

The article is 100% right by saying you could play dozens and dozens of hours with the same warframe, and still be making progress toward new zones, new gear, and even building new warframes that largely change up combat.

Like many said, I don't think the answer to Destiny's problems is to copy and paste Warframe's formula, because that kind of grindy gameplay isn't for everyone, but they certainly need more to keep people with 305 Power levels to come back and keep playing.

 

[140.85]

I recommend SkillUp's review of WF in its current 2017 state if you're interested in it:

https://youtu.be/0vuJitrbTFY

 

[Razzmatazzer]

ARTICLE title is silly... future of Destiny 2 can be found in Destiny 1, sadly. Bungie decided to build a sequel for the complainers, not the fans

 

[MaKTaiL]

Thread title is silly... future of Destiny 2 can be found in Destiny 1, sadly. Bungie decided to build a sequel for the complainers, not the fans

Thread title is the article's title. If you've read it you would know what he means by that.

 

[Niceguydan8]

My personal theory (tinfoil hat ON) is that every big outlet rated the OG Destiny too low because they did not understand it. But when you look at it EVERY big outlet had a group of people stuck with it HARD. Polygon, IGN, GiantBomb, Kotaku - at some point they must have felt weird still playing a game they gave a 6.5 to.

I don't know about the other outlets, but Jeff was very clear on what he did/didn't like about Destiny. Listening to his rants about how good the game could have been and how much it missed that mark makes sense for his score.

 

[GlamFM]

I don't know about the other outlets, but Jeff was very clear on what he did/didn't like about Destiny. Listening to his rants about how good the game could have been and how much it missed that mark makes sense for his score.

Sure, but he has come around in a big way and if Brad had reviewed it, it would be an entirely different story.

Keep in mind that Jeff reviewed D1 before the Raid was live and Brad got them to play it waaaaaaaaay after the review hit.

Jeff did not know what he was reviewing at the time.

 

[Seth Enosh]

Destiny 1 launched with an insane grind. The result was I dropped it until the expansion came out that reduced the grind (the dark below) and made content more accessible. At that point I dropped money on the expansion pass and got back into the game and it was great. Played a ton of strikes, crucible, etc during TDB and HOW, actually did the raids, and so on.

The RNG weapons were never fair. Unless you played every iron banner, every event (queens wrath), you were falling behind. People had perfect Supremacy snipers or perfect Jolders Hammers that I never could get because they were offered once or a few times and then changed. Crucible was still ok but it wasn’t fair, and the fairness mostly came from the dominance of exotic weapons (TLW, Thorn) that we all had access to. Then TTK and ROI dropped and the crucible became even more unbalanced because people who grinded and cheesed like crazy (Omnigul farming for Grasp), or who logged in every single week to check on gunsmith rolls and vendor rolls, had the best guns for multiplayer.

Warframe has no competitive multiplayer so saying destiny should copy its systems seems backward from that respect. The article just tosses off “Of course, that would be a balance nightmare for PVP, but anything’s better than the matches filled with MIDA Multi-Tools we see so often now” which doesn’t really grapple with the issue at all, just repeating a trope that MIDA is overpowered.

So far I’m quite happy that destiny 2 doesn’t waste my time. I’ve put 100 hours into the game including running Raids and Nightfalls multiple times in one week for fun rather than for grind or for loot. I already have all the guns I need to be competitive in crucible and rather than waste time grinding for them or grinding up each individual weapons’ stats, I can just play the game, experiment with the different weapons, and have fun.

Bungie saw the negative reaction to destiny 1’s grind and how people dropped off quickly and destiny 2 is their answer. They want a sustainable brand with the masses not just a game that can only be loved by those who have 10-20 hours or more a week to sink into one game.

 

[Razzmatazzer]

Thread title is the article's title. If you've read it you would know what he means by that.

Same thing, my statement still stands.

 

[Lucifon]

I don't really see a problem in being 'done' with a game and returning for DLC / event drops. I finished my time with Destiny 1 feeling like I wasted time, and with a sour taste in my mouth. I finished my time with Destiny 2 feeling like I had a blast but I was done with the game for now - I'm super interested in what they add moving forward and will absolutely play more.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

While I really like warframe, no way do they implement that complicated of a system in destiny... just no way. Also while the gameplay is solid... destiny is just that much better in the feel of combat that warframe imo.

This is what really disappoints me. Warframe is one of the most complex games I've ever played. They've added later upon layer of complexity to the game to the point that every player could be drastically different from each other when it comes to frames, weapons, polarization, mods, companions, customization and playstyle. It may not make complete sense an hour after downloading the game and some mechanics are saved post Second Dream/War Within which can take place 100+ hours into the game and it slowly introduces mechanics after you've mastered the previous mechanics.

Destiny has very little choice and even players look alike because they don't want to use their consumable shaders on anything but top tier gear. Why can't a game with mass market appeal take a cue from Warframe/Path of Exile/Diablo and allow players to come up with all sorts of crazy builds instead of binary options within subclasses?

 

[Kill3r7]

I always found it to be a nice and mindless podcast activity - sort of a victory lap when you got to level up your new cool raid weapons. I did not mind it at all. I actually liked it quite a bit. Made a gun feel more special when you had to put some work into it.

Like grinding in old RPGs or getting 1.000 headshots in COD for a gold skin.

Correct but I can still play with my friends and have mindless fun doing random shit in D2 because at the end of the day that is what Destiny endgame is all about. I don't need it to feel like work. Then again, I am not looking for a D1 vanilla experience. That shit cost me at least 300 hours of sleep.

 

[Niceguydan8]

Destiny 1 launched with an insane grind. The result was I dropped it until the expansion came out that reduced the grind (the dark below) and made content more accessible. At that point I dropped money on the expansion pass and got back into the game and it was great. Played a ton of strikes, crucible, etc during TDB and HOW, actually did the raids, and so on.

The RNG weapons were never fair. Unless you played every iron banner, every event (queens wrath), you were falling behind. People had perfect Supremacy snipers or perfect Jolders Hammers that I never could get because they were offered once or a few times and then changed. Crucible was still ok but it wasn't fair, and the fairness mostly came from the dominance of exotic weapons (TLW, Thorn) that we all had access to. Then TTK and ROI dropped and the crucible became even more unbalanced because people who grinded and cheesed like crazy (Omnigul farming for Grasp), or who logged in every single week to check on gunsmith rolls and vendor rolls, had the best guns for multiplayer.

Warframe has no competitive multiplayer so saying destiny should copy its systems seems backward from that respect.

So far I'm quite happy that destiny 2 doesn't waste my time. I've put 100 hours into the game including running Raids and Nightfalls multiple times in one week for fun rather than for grind or for loot. I already have all the guns I need to be competitive in crucible and rather than waste time grinding for them or grinding up each individual weapons' stats, I can just play the game, experiment with the different weapons, and have fun.

Bungie saw the negative reaction to destiny 1's grind and how people dropped off quickly and destiny 2 is their answer. They want a sustainable brand with the masses not just a game that can only be loved by those who have 10-20 hours or more a week to sink into one game.

A couple of issues I have with Bungie's handling of things:

-They really need to separate PvP and PvE stats. A lot of people are saying this, but it's really obvious. Most of the issues you had could be solved much easier if the two were split apart balance wise, and it would allow Bungie to make actually interesting exotics rather than (at least in my opinion) kind of boring weapons in terms of functionality.

-Warframe does have competitive multiplayer, they just don't put a whole lot of focus into balancing it the same way that Destiny does. As a benefit, the variety in weapons is much more diverse.

-Why is there no middle ground when people talk about the grind? Also, why is the solution people praise Bungie for pretty much entirely removing the RNG aspects of the game? Isn't there some happy middle ground where those looking to grind more could see fairly consistent yet marginal power gains (like Warframe, Diablo, and most loot games honestly) that doesn't rely on pure RNG? For a game that people seem to think is "Diablo with guns" it does a pretty terrible job in regards to the "Diablo" part.

I think it really comes down to Bungie just not wanting to separate PvP and PvE balancing to any meaningful degree. That severely hurts their PvE portion of the game, as I think it allows for far less interesting loot and a generally less interesting loot game overall. Destiny doesn't need to be filled with Warframe-esque amounts of grind, but a dose of something like that would sure help the lackluster looter aspect of Destiny 2.

 

[Dunlop]

I know, right? this is exactly what destiny needs, waiting 72 hours to unlock an armour set and then having to pay to speed it up.

Except a more apt comparison is that after 72 hours you get a brand new guardian type with completely different abilities.

The customization and variety in Warframe is insane. Different games but I agree with the article, there is always something to do in Warframe and work towards. I play D2 on Tuesday and then shelve it for the rest of the week

 

[RecRoulette]

Reposting because last post on previous page..

I think they should take a look at Y1 and the game they actually wanted to make back then.

The narrative that Destiny was basically garbage until TTK fixed everything has been very hurtful to the game.

IMO TTK broke more than it fixed. TTK came in like a huge equalizer. Nothing mattered - everything was the same.

My personal theory (tinfoil hat ON) is that every big outlet rated the OG Destiny too low because they did not understand it. But when you look at it EVERY big outlet had a group of people stuck with it HARD. Polygon, IGN, GiantBomb, Kotaku - at some point they must have felt weird still playing a game they gave a 6.5 to.

TTK was the ultimate chance to finally give this game what it deserved in the first place and going forward the narrative (D1 garbage TTK great) was set.

I think Bungie drew the wrong conclusions.

NOBODY understood Destiny 1, look at all the people that spent hours shooting up the goddamn loot cave. I wouldn't solely put that on reviewers.

There's really no way Bungie could've gotten out of that perception unless they did a Souls style "Fuck you, this is how our game works." But with the amount of money invested they were always going to cater to the majority, even if they were "wrong" about how the game worked.

As you said, The Taken King set the tone for things going forward, but the way people talk about it you'd think it was a Mass Effect to Mass Effect 2 jump for the series. It really wasn't. Which makes what Bungie did even more impressive as far as perception goes.

 

[GlamFM]

I play D2 on Tuesday and then shelve it for the rest of the week

Until you reach 305.

When you do you don´t even have to show up on Tuesdays.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

LOL. Go give Warframe a try.

How does that in any way relate to my point that one good game being F2P doesn't mean that you should expect other games to follow a F2P model? Not really sure what made you laugh so hard, I even said I would give WF a go this week.

 

[Vanillalite]

Warframe's total setup is radically different though, and I say this as someone who's dabaled in WF and my son actively plays.

I actually think Bungie is doing ok so far with stuff like Faction Rally and Iron Banner. They just need to keep it up. Can't have lul between now and the DLC.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

Outside of the movement and applicable weapon sets, warframe's grind is too intense. It's a fantastic game but Destiny is far more rewarding. Getting drops of weapons and armour that you can use instantly use is preferable to warframe's approach.

Bungo could learn a thing or two from DE regarding end game but I doubt their ego would allow it.

I know people hate the timer but I'm at the point where I always have at least three things being built at any given time meaning I am always anticipating the next 12-72 hours by the end of a play session.

Sure, I'd enjoy loot drops that are usable immediately but it's not like Destiny's loot is exciting. The vast majority of armor and weapons play exactly the same as other equipment with higher numbers.

Except a more apt comparison is that after 72 hours you get a brand new guardian type with completely different abilities.

The customization and variety in Warframe is insane. Different games but I agree with the article, there is always something to do in Warframe and work towards. I play D2 on Tuesday and then shelve it for the rest of the week

Yep, or 12-24 hours, a new weapon which plays extremely different even within their weapon type classes.

 

[Xyber]

My problem with Warframe always goes back to the fact that any group content is purely about speed. Whenever I end up in a pick up group to do a mission you’ll have several members shoot off at 2000 miles an hour, and you’ll spend the rest of the time desperately chasing them until it’s complete. It feels like the range of speed mods in the game is too high, or that it matches people with extreme gear with newbies too much which creates unfunny situations.

Your problem isn't that they have some speed mods that make them super fast (there are movement speed mods but that's not where you get your speed from). If you get good at combining slide, jump and roll then your lvl 1 unmodded Warframe can keep up with most people as long as you don't get stuck on stuff because that is how you build speed. Some warframes gets modded to take advantage of their movement abilities though. Like Volt who has a movement speed buff, but it is also granted to everyone near him.

 

[Tovarisc]

Warframe's total setup is radically different though, and I say this as someone who's dabaled in WF and my son actively plays.

I actually think Bungie is doing ok so far with stuff like Faction Rally and Iron Banner. They just need to keep it up. Can't have lul between now and the DLC.

• Raid
• ToN
• Faction Rally
• Iron Banner

There is just your end game until December where we get small leveling, gearing and exploration spurt before we return to that end game activity list. I don't personally expect anything more than those, maybe Sparrow Racing if they feel like heating up that chestnut.

Edit: and oh, like you know none of those make you advance after hitting 305 which is current hard cap

 

[Chronospherics]

I find that Warframe feels really repetitive. With the fact that you don't change gear often (as the article states, you're often stuck with one gun trying to 'level it up') combined with the relatively monotonous enemy types, it just feels like I'm doing the same thing, over and over.

Of course, you can say the same for Destiny, but the increased variety of weapons, enemies, and interactions between them, makes it feel more varied, moment to moment.

The rewards for Destiny's long-term grind are less compelling, but much of that is because it rewards the player much faster than Warframe does. 30 hours into Destiny I already had hundreds of weapons and powers to play with. All of that slows down in the late-game, and some of that is a little disappointing, but it still gives me plenty of reasons to try something new, like a new weapon, subclass, or whatever. And even though the amount of content I can work towards is slimmer, there's still exotics, colours, cosmetics, and weapons I'm missing, that I can seek out.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

• Raid
• ToN
• Faction Rally
• Iron Banner

There is just your end game until December where we get small leveling, gearing and exploration spurt before we return to that end game activity list. I don't personally expect anything more than those, maybe Sparrow Racing if they feel like heating up that chestnut.

I mean the actual weekly end-game list is:

• Nightfall (+/- Prestige)
• Raid
• Trials of the Nine
• Crucible Milestone
• Flashpoint Milestone
• Treasure Chests
• Possibly: Clan EXP Engram

With the following to come at some point before December:

• Iron Banner
• Faction Rally
• Prestige Raid

I don't think the levelling spurt is that small each week either. Light/power progression seems far more lenient and accessible than D1 was.

 

[Niceguydan8]

Of course, you can say the same for Destiny, but the increased variety of weapons, enemies, and interactions between them, makes it feel more varied, moment to moment.

I can get behind the enemies feeling better to fight in Destiny 2, but I have no idea what you are on about saying the weapons feel more varied. Care to elaborate? In my opinion, Warframe has far better weapon variety to the point where it's not even a fair comparison.

 

[Tovarisc]

I mean the actual weekly end-game list is:

• Nightfall (+/- Prestige)
• Raid
• Trials of the Nine
• Crucible Milestone
• Flashpoint Milestone
• Treasure Chests
• Possibly: Clan EXP Engram

With the following to come at some point before December:

• Iron Banner
• Faction Rally
• Prestige Raid

I don't think the levelling spurt is that small each week either. Light/power progression seems far more lenient and accessible than D1 was.

That is full list of weekly reset content, true. But does it even matter? You hit hard cap for progression rather quickly in D2 because of how generous they have made game about it. Why you as player come back week after week after hitting hard cap?

If you are kinda player to set yourself goals like "This week I / we do flawless this or that" even when game doesn't give you anything for it (not even achie anymore) then thats cool. If you are kinda player who comes back for progression being it vertical or horizontal climb then in D2 you quickly run out of reasons to come back before December content release.

Weapons and armor have set perks. Raid and ToN gear doesn't even have any unique and interesting ones. Knowing what I know about D2 (and I know quite a bit for someone waiting for PC release) I expect to run out of reasons to play D2 very quickly between PC release and December content release as I would be chasing only fashionDestiny and there isn't much of it in D2 that interests me.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Someone mind posting a quick TL;DR of the loot system in Warframe?

That is full list of weekly reset content, true. But does it even matter? You hit hard cap for progression rather quickly in D2 because of how generous they have made game about it. Why you as player come back week after week after hitting hard cap?

I was correcting your post, not necessarily disagreeing with your main sentiment. I don't see the point in reducing the list just to make it look smaller when people at cap run out of things to do with what is there. For me I think progression is just too easy (as is getting loot in general). You progress each week with ease and then hit cap (or 300+ - for which there is little reason to push further), with most of the items you wanted already attained.

All that said by far my largest issue with Destiny is the separation of reward from activity. It's really put a dent in the re-playability of activities for me.

 

[Seth Enosh]

A couple of issues I have with Bungie's handling of things:

-They really need to separate PvP and PvE stats. A lot of people are saying this, but it's really obvious. Most of the issues you had could be solved much easier if the two were split apart balance wise, and it would allow Bungie to make actually interesting exotics rather than (at least in my opinion) kind of boring weapons in terms of functionality.

-Warframe does have competitive multiplayer, they just don't put a whole lot of focus into balancing it the same way that Destiny does. As a benefit, the variety in weapons is much more diverse.

-Why is there no middle ground when people talk about the grind? Also, why is the solution people praise Bungie for pretty much entirely removing the RNG aspects of the game? Isn't there some happy middle ground where those looking to grind more could see fairly consistent yet marginal power gains (like Warframe, Diablo, and most loot games honestly) that doesn't rely on pure RNG? For a game that people seem to think is "Diablo with guns" it does a pretty terrible job in regards to the "Diablo" part.

- I think it really comes down to Bungie just not wanting to separate PvP and PvE balancing to any meaningful degree. That severely hurts their PvE portion of the game, as I think it allows for far less interesting loot and a generally less interesting loot game overall. Destiny doesn't need to be filled with Warframe-esque amounts of grind, but a dose of something like that would sure help the lackluster looter aspect of Destiny 2.

- I understand why some people want separate PvE vs PvP stats but I disagree. It’s nice being able to take a gun into patrol and practice a bit with it before heading into the crucible. I think that’s the experience bungie is trying to go for.

- There is still quite a bit of RNG in the game, after 100 hours I still don’t have all the exotics or even all the legendaries that people talk about (nameless midnight, curtain call, Mananana sr4). However it gives enough loot that I don’t feel left out by that. And I like that I’m at 300 power so I can do the most challenging end game content without being at a disadvantage. Since this is a cooperative game any system where there is an endless level up grind would lead to being left behind. The current system allows you to play with others easily, the challenge is to get better at the game rather than increasing a number. I don’t like diablo or warframe or any of those type of games that I’ve tried, my attraction to destiny is due to the gameplay not due to a loot treadmill - TTK and ROI had those massive treadmills of loot and they didn’t keep me playing.

I respect that not everyone will have the same desire for this game but my main purpose in posting was to point out destiny 2’s systems seem to be designed for the people who were frustrated by destiny 1. IMO pointing to f2p systems as good solutions for the game, as this article does, misunderstands what bungie is trying to do.

 

[Don Friday]

I recommend SkillUp's review of WF in its current 2017 state if you're interested in it:

https://youtu.be/0vuJitrbTFY

Thank you very much for linking this, it's inspiring me again to try it.
I had a similar experience, playing it early in its life and being confused and turned off.

I actually tried to play it recently in the lead up to D2's launch, however I got some error that prevented me from completing the installation and decided it wasn't worth the effort. Maybe I'll try to work through that this week.

 

[Dunlop]

Someone mind posting a quick TL;DR of the loot system in Warframe?

You build almost everything, so your farm or trade for blueprints and then get the materials required to complete it.
It's a very different game from Destiny, the customization available can be very intimidating.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

You build almost everything, so your farm or trade for blueprints and then get the materials required to complete it.
It's a very different game from Destiny, the customization available can be very intimidating.

Oh alright, so is there no case of say defeating a boss and then getting a usable item (meaning without requiring crafting) from it? How are cosmetics (if any) handled? Sorry if this comes across as severe ignorance, but it is lol.

 

[Razzmatazzer]

- I understand why some people want separate PvE vs PvP stats but I disagree. It's nice being able to take a gun into patrol and practice a bit with it before heading into the crucible. I think that's the experience bungie is trying to go for.

I 100% agree and assume this is the intention of Bungie.

My thought process on this matter is why not ban exotics from pvp and make them pve only? Exotics should be unique/fun and currently they're clearly held back because of being OP in pvp. Why not just eliminate them entirely from the pvp experience? It would help to keep things competitive/balanced in pvp and allow for a more fun pve experience. win win imo!

 

[Tovarisc]

Someone mind posting a quick TL;DR of the loot system in Warframe?

I was correcting your post, not necessarily disagreeing with your main sentiment. I don't see the point in reducing the list just to make it look smaller when people at cap run out of things to do with what is there.

Fair point, I did simplify the list tad too much.

In WarFrame you basically farm three things

• Raw materials + currency (money and mod upgrade... thing)
• Blueprints
• Mods

I think there is 4th thing, but it's so super end game that I'm nowhere near it yet.

Still core idea is that you farm specific raw materials from specific planets / areas of the solar system that are then used to craft new weapons, warframes, medkits, components for your ship etc. from blueprints. These blueprints can be obtained by farming specific bosses (boss X gives blueprints for warframe Y and so on), by purchasing from other players, by farming Rifts (special modifiers to existing mission nodes) and by purchasing from in-game store with in-game currency.

Each blueprint has unique time it takes to craft item. From seconds to hours. Completing all parts of Warframe and turning them into Warframe itself can take 1.5 - 2 days total where decryption key for hacking minigame takes seconds per key.

Then you can give weapons and Warframes special modifiers, give them more power in specific areas of use etc. by using mods. Each weapon and frame has X slots total and one mod can use e.g. 6 out of that maximum value. Every mod can be upgraded with in-game currencies to more powerful versions of themselves.

Why you want to level existing gear to max level of 30 and keep crafting new gear ties into games leveling system. Think it like prestige levels from CoD's, but in Warframe you gain small stat increases and such from increasing your "prestige level".

P.S. bad TLDR I know, but there is quite bit depth and complexity there

Edit: You asked about cosmetics. Majority of them are for premium currency called Platinum (they run sales on that stuff quite regularly and you can get in-game discounts for it), but some are obtainable for free via timed in-game mission events and then just craft it.

 

[Švejk]

How does that in any way relate to my point that one good game being F2P doesn't mean that you should expect other games to follow a F2P model? Not really sure what made you laugh so hard, I even said I would give WF a go this week.

It sounded more like you were comparing apples to oranges. If I'm misunderstanding, then my bad. My point was that in the end, time and money talks... and at the moment, I haven't felt I got my moneys worth for dropping $60 on D2 as of yet... but it's still early. Warframe on the other hand, I feel I get the same amount of fun while not having paid anything.. that's where my perspective is at the moment.

Glad to hear that you'll try Warframe. =) I can understand aesthetics though.. If the art direction is not my thing, I can't bring myself to play it no matter how fun it can be.

 

[GlamFM]

- I understand why some people want separate PvE vs PvP stats but I disagree. It’s nice being able to take a gun into patrol and practice a bit with it before heading into the crucible. I think that’s the experience bungie is trying to go for.

At least they should be able to tweak damage output separately.

Making guns useless in PvE because they were OP in PvP was super annoying in D1.

 

[Niceguydan8]

I 100% agree and assume this is the intention of Bungie.

My thought process on this matter is why not ban exotics from pvp and make them pve only? Exotics should be unique/fun and currently they're clearly held back because of being OP in pvp. Why not just eliminate them entirely from the pvp experience? It would help to keep things competitive/balanced in pvp and allow for a more fun pve experience. win win imo!

I'm okay with other solutions, I just see so much potential for cool functions on exotics that isn't happening because it would be too hard to balance in PvP.

It's like taking out all of the cool/crazy stuff in Diablo so Diablo could have a balanced PvP system. My opinion obviously isn't everyone else's opinion, but I'd rather have crazy cool stuff in PvE that is balanced differently/isn't available (whatever the solution is, I don't really care) as opposed to having relatively tame exotics that have to exist the way they are because of PvP balancing issues.

Yes they should definitely do that. I think they did do it a few times in destiny 1, for instance shotgun damage against PvE content was changed multiple times without affecting damage in the crucible. Ideally all weapons should be viable for PvE just with their own play style.

The shotgun damage example is exactly what I was talking about though. Splitting the stats apart to the point where changing one of the stats in PvP does not necessarily change the same stat in PvE.

 

[Seth Enosh]

I 100% agree and assume this is the intention of Bungie.

My thought process on this matter is why not ban exotics from pvp and make them pve only? Exotics should be unique/fun and currently they're clearly held back because of being OP in pvp. Why not just eliminate them entirely from the pvp experience? It would help to keep things competitive/balanced in pvp and allow for a more fun pve experience. win win imo!

There are some exotics that are great in pvp though so I don’t know if that would be great for us.

But I’d definitely like to see the return of more “PvE” only type perks and abilities. A lot of destiny 1 gear had things like “more super energy when used against minions of darkness” - powers that explicitly applied only to PvE content. I do hope bungie is planning to expand the Mod system at some point to allow that stuff again, or will add it back as part of the Curse of Osiris. Exotics that have perks like that could be cool also - right now we have things like riskrunner’s chain lightning which is very easy to proc in certain PvE content, but hard to use on demand in the crucible. More exotic powers like that will be welcome in my book!

At least they should be able to tweak damage output separately.

Making guns useless in PvE because they were OP in PvP was super annoying in D1.

Yes they should definitely do that. I think they did do it a few times in destiny 1, for instance shotgun damage against PvE content was changed multiple times without affecting damage in the crucible. Ideally all weapons should be viable for PvE just with their own play style.

 

[ElfArmy177]

Most appropriate gif response to warframe and Diablo ever

 

[Niceguydan8]

Fair point, I did simplify the list tad too much.

In WarFrame you basically farm three things

• Raw materials + currency (money and mod upgrade... thing)
• Blueprints
• Mods

I think there is 4th thing, but it's so super end game that I'm nowhere near it yet.

The last thing you are talking about are arcanes. They will be easier to come by (presumably) with Plains of Eidolon. Right now you either trade with a player in order to get them or you do the Trials (raid equivalent, although not as good as Destiny raids IMO) to get them. There are a bunch of different stat boosts found in arcanes.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

Oh alright, so is there no case of say defeating a boss and then getting a usable item (meaning without requiring crafting) from it? How are cosmetics (if any) handled? Sorry if this comes across as severe ignorance, but it is lol.

Nothing is immediately usable except for certain quest rewards (quests after Second Dream rival anything Destiny has done).

I find that Warframe feels really repetitive. With the fact that you don't change gear often (as the article states, you're often stuck with one gun trying to 'level it up') combined with the relatively monotonous enemy types, it just feels like I'm doing the same thing, over and over.

Of course, you can say the same for Destiny, but the increased variety of weapons, enemies, and interactions between them, makes it feel more varied, moment to moment.

The rewards for Destiny's long-term grind are less compelling, but much of that is because it rewards the player much faster than Warframe does. 30 hours into Destiny I already had hundreds of weapons and powers to play with. All of that slows down in the late-game, and some of that is a little disappointing, but it still gives me plenty of reasons to try something new, like a new weapon, subclass, or whatever. And even though the amount of content I can work towards is slimmer, there's still exotics, colours, cosmetics, and weapons I'm missing, that I can seek out.

I felt this way at first but now at any given time, I have three things being built by the end of a proper play session. Warframes, primary weapons, secondary weapons and melee weapons. They all feel incredibly different from each other, even compared to weapons of the same "class". Takes about an hour to go from unranked to max.

Right now there's 51 warframes (including the Prime variants of some), 307 weapons, 20 companions (including Prime variants and Kubrows/Kavats). The interesting thing about this game is ALL weapons and warframes are viable for all content given the right mods and forma. Absolutely no shortage of this stuff.

 

[Xyber]

I find that Warframe feels really repetitive. With the fact that you don't change gear often (as the article states, you're often stuck with one gun trying to 'level it up') combined with the relatively monotonous enemy types, it just feels like I'm doing the same thing, over and over.

You are "stuck" with 1 gun for like 2-3 hours when you get to some higher tier levels if all you care for is to get it to 30 and move on. Especially when in a full party and the game throws a lot more enemies at you.

The thing about Warframe is that some of the responsibility is on you the player to create variation in the gameplay by using new warframes. It just isn't possible for any loot game to have an infinite amount of new fresh content to play. In the end it always comes down to how much you are willing to grind and that applies to all games like this.

 

[Švejk]

Oh alright, so is there no case of say defeating a boss and then getting a usable item (meaning without requiring crafting) from it? How are cosmetics (if any) handled? Sorry if this comes across as severe ignorance, but it is lol.

Totally legitimate question. If you play on PS4, be sure to download the Warframe starter pack. You get a decent handful of platinum amongst other things... But don't spend it! Wait till you get the feel and the flow of the game before jumping on cosmetics. Some can be bought with platinum, others with in game currency. There's hundreds of color palettes and 3-4 different shaders, per se per frame. But there's the little details you can do that I love like moving the angle and position of how your blades rest on your frame, for example. And well over 60 indle animations, which I only recently found out about. =P

 

[MaKTaiL]

Warframe gave me one of the most epic soundtracks I've ever listened to.

https://youtu.be/-TKyPSw1Rlk

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

Warframe gave me one of the most epic soundtracks I've ever listened to.

https://youtu.be/-TKyPSw1Rlk

The Second Dream and War Within music is fucking amazing to the point where I bought the soundtrack on vinyl.
https://youtu.be/xrQtsLVa504

 

[Niceguydan8]

The thing about Warframe is that some of the responsibility is on you the player to create variation in the gameplay by using new warframes. It just isn't possible for any loot game to have an infinite amount of new fresh content to play. In the end it always comes down to how much you are willing to grind and that applies to all games like this.

I think that's what I like about it so much. Pretty much after clearing the star chart (and even a bit during it), I'm setting goals that I want to achieve. The game isn't telling me where to go at this point, it's just a bunch of stuff for me to do in whatever order I want to do and there's pretty much no penalty for doing anything in the game.

So over last week, I made a goal to farm out Atlas parts by Wednesday and play him over the weekend. This weekend, I made a goal to try to get Harrow parts with a friend while getting ducats to get some cosmetic stuff/Primed Mods from Baro. To me, this game is all about setting personal goals and accomplishing them. In that sense, I think it's incredibly rewarding.

 

[RollerMeister]

Once you get the balance just right for free players, Warframe's method of charging for extra storage is one of the smarter ways to implement microtransactions that I've seen.

Honestly, I probably just feel that the game is too aggressive in pushing the f2p model.

Limited inventory space probably wouldn't be a problem for me, if it wasn't on top of everything else.

 

[Hedge]

Arcanes will be attainable in PoE? Drops or missions?

 

[Niceguydan8]

Honestly, I probably just feel that the game is too aggressive in pushing the f2p model.

Limited inventory space probably wouldn't be a problem for me, if it wasn't on top of everything else.

You could always farm up some prime parts from relics and trade those for plat, which in turn would allow you to purchase inventory space for weapons/frames.

Arcanes will be attainable in PoE? Drops or missions?

It sounds like it will be obtained through mining.