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[NullPointer]

Please no.

Somethings are good in Warframe and it can possible be used in Destiny...

But most of things Bungie did better than Warframe devs and should change for better and not to Warframe state.

So I prefer Bungie envolve it own view.

The article isn't suggesting that Destiny become Warframe, but only that Warframe has solved some of the problems Destiny seems to have. Its more abstract than asking Bungie to take Warframe's systems whole cloth.

And yeah, I wouldn't want that either. Diablo 3 is another game they could look at for some inspiration.

If Bungie separated PvE and PvP and came up with systems that promote better replayability that'd be nice. I'd also like to see them continue to expand the game rather than doing things like tossing out the entirety of Destiny 1 and replacing it all in Destiny 2, with almost zero persistence across both games.

 

[TyrantII]

Really don't want random loot rolls to come back, nor do I want Crucible to become the super-grenade-shotgun party that D1 was. I'm all about adding in more rewards and more game modes, but I just don't want to return to the bullshit grind that frustrated me and repeatedly burnt me out on D1.

I get his position. I understand why streamers, in particular, want those changes. People who are spending more than 5-6 hours a week on Destiny are going to run out of meaningful content and I feel for them. At the same time, however, it's sad that as soon as I find myself enjoying Crucible people are hating it.

This is where Bungie failed, I could easily see the mod system allowing both camps to be happy here.

You could tie specific mod drops specific activities and they could be a little more forgiving so it's not as much a grind.

But, these drops can be slotted into all weapons, allowing some crazy customization. Streamers would be grinding enough mats and weapons to find the best rolls and combinations. Meanwhile those with less time can just hold onto their mats and weapons and wait for the meta to sort out, instead of an endless grind.

Imagine (light) farming a lost sector for Firefly and adding it to an auto riffle you like?

There's so many ways they can expand end games without going to pure grinds it's not even funny, just sad that nothing was implemented for launch.

Hell, the mod system could even be used to separate PvP / PvE by slotting perks that are only active in one vs the other.

 

[wuth]

This is where Bungie failed, I could easily see the mod system allowing both camps to be happy here.

You could tie specific mod drops specific activities and they could be a little more forgiving so it's not as much a grind.

But, these drops can be slotted into all weapons, allowing some crazy customization. Streamers would be grinding enough mats and weapons to find the best rolls and combinations. Meanwhile those with less time can just hold onto their mats and weapons and wait for the meta to sort out, instead of an endless grind.

Imagine (light) farming a lost sector for Firefly and adding it to an auto riffle you like?

There's so many ways they can expand end games without going to pure grinds it's not even funny, just sad that nothing was implemented for launch.

This seems like the path forward. The mod system feels totally underutilized right now outside of pushing gear past that 300 mark.

 

[Dynasty8]

I wouldn't mind this. I got to Power Level 305 and now what...? Even after I got to PL 265...there was so little reason to keep playing.

Progression has hit a brick wall in Destiny 2. There really is no reason for me to play the game anymore and it just feels so....limited and pointless. The one thing I'll praise about Warframe is that it totally separates the PvE and PvP....and because of that reason, the developers have much more freedom to dive deeper into game's progression, improving and making your character stronger, and customized modifications with classes/weapons/etc.. Sure, it can be somewhat grindy, but Bungie can find a sweet spot.

Honestly, I had a ton of fun with D2, but there is no reason for me to turn it on anymore. I'm not a fan of the new PvP experience (just not my cup of tea).

We need Bigger Worlds to explore with more meaningful rewards rather than relying on "slot machine" engrams that constantly generate duplicates. I remember them talking about how EDZ was huge....tbh, it's just a little bit bigger than the Cosmodrome.

Lost Sectors? After PL265....what's the point? They don't provide ANY challenge, no excitement or sense of discovery...no meaningful reward....nothing.

Challenges/Tokens? Again, what's the point? What meaningful reward or challenge do you get out of completing or collecting these? Faction gear all cap below your current power level. Ranking up a faction provides no incentive whatsoever.

Public Events/Heroic Public Events? They're fun at first, but again...no point. Mod System? Very underwhelming and limited. Storage? Why are they so stingy about giving players more space?


List goes on...There is so much more I can say...but I'm sure most people here understand what I'm getting at.

 

[Chronospherics]

You are "stuck" with 1 gun for like 2-3 hours when you get to some higher tier levels if all you care for is to get it to 30 and move on. Especially when in a full party and the game throws a lot more enemies at you.

The thing about Warframe is that some of the responsibility is on you the player to create variation in the gameplay by using new warframes. It just isn't possible for any loot game to have an infinite amount of new fresh content to play. In the end it always comes down to how much you are willing to grind and that applies to all games like this.

That's the point, Destiny is more like a traditional shooter. Imagine spending 2-3 hours with a gun in a game like Halo? It gets boring.

2-3 hours in, you've already gone through 20-30 weapons in Destiny 2, and they all feel both great to use, and distinct to each other.

 

[MikeyKlump]

I am still puzzled why we cant mark location or enemies on Destiny , why we cant change the other emotes rather than the only useful one.

Warframe was ahead of Destiny 1, but Destiny 1 was saved by its amazing gunplay and community refusing the game to die

Nobody uses the default dance idk why it is even there

 

[Niceguydan8]

2-3 hours in, you've already gone through 20-30 weapons in Destiny 2, and they all feel both great to use, and distinct to each other.

Err..I don't know where you're getting that from. You have the different weapon classes(shotgun, pulse rifle, scout rifle, etc), but outside of that, all of the weapons feel pretty samey. Granted, they all feel good, I just don't think they feel particularly varied to any meaningful extent. Especially when you compare two shotguns in Warframe, for example.

If it's more like a traditional shooter, why don't they just ditch the RPG elements? If they keep watering those elements down (and they are), what's the point of their inclusion to begin with?

 

[NullPointer]

Err..I don't know where you're getting that from. You have the different weapon classes(shotgun, pulse rifle, scout rifle, etc), but outside of that, all of the weapons feel pretty samey. Granted, they all feel good, I just don't think they feel particularly varied to any meaningful extent. Especially when you compare two shotguns in Warframe, for example.

True. If we're talking weapon diversity, Warframe more than has that covered too. And that's before you get into all the ways you can change and fine tune them with mods.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I finally started getting into Warframe in a big way in the last month or so, after trying it a few different times over the years. When I picked up where I'd left off, I was on Venus, and 60 hours later I'm on Saturn and it feels like a different experience entirely in terms of enemy threat levels and loadout options. Bungie has better moment-to-moment gameplay, but in all other areas I'd LOVE if Destiny took nods from Warframe. Especially in stuff like class and weapon diversity, content repeatability, session value, and social features; Warframe clans are BONKERS. You build bases and unlock gear you can only get through your Clan, it's nuts.

Apparently things only get better from here on out. Can't wait to get into the real endgame content.

 

[Calvinpewpewpew]

Warframe is really good. I am only like level 10 and am playing it very slowly (mostly waiting for the X1X enhancements as it is a little janky right now) but I have enjoyed the gameplay loop in Warframe soooo much more than in D2. I played about 300 hours of D1 so I am a fairly experienced player, and D2 just does not do it for me anymore. Something about the end game is just fundamentally soulless, no matter how beautiful the game is and no matter how good the aesthetics and lore are.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I was just letting you know it was there

Warframe is a game about doing what you want. If I want to work my way towards those vertical progression things, I can do that. If I want to try out new/different types of guns, I can work my way towards getting those. If I see a cool Frame, I can work my way towards unlocking that. The whole "I unlock something new everyday" is largely by choice. A player is choosing exactly what he or she wants to unlock. There is no RNG to that sort of thing. If I want Sword A, I get rewarded Sword A after I craft it. I think that may be lost in the quotes. Players are basically never at the expense of RNG when it comes to getting new things. So yeah, if the game itself isn't your thing, the rewards won't be either. That being said, it feels much more rewarding to me to work towards crafting a specific item, crafting that item, and then figuring out the build for that item. I don't mind how Destiny does their stuff a whole lot, but I just don't think the RNG drops that are often times catalysts for progression feels as rewarding, I guess. I enjoy both games, so this isn't a case of me actively not liking how Destiny plays, I just think there are games out there (Warframe) that have a more interesting and rewarding structure that I wouldn't mind Bungie taking a look at and seeing if they can put their own spin on it.


I think the point behind those sorts of sayings is that the rewards fall off pretty quickly in Destiny 2. I think that's by design, but I also think that leaves some of the userbase wanting a little more
But in the end you're right, different strokes for different folks!

My question there is, in Warframe, is there still RNG in terms of getting the drops from the missions in order to craft? Because that's how it was when I played. RNG on drops to power things up. RNG on drops to use in crafting. Several points where if you didn't have the right Frame for a mission that was necessary to beat in order to advance, you had to group with stronger players to basically carry you through it.

Its collecting stuff for the sake of having different loadouts, different builds and thus different ways to play with different roles, and that constantly expands your repertoire for new missions types and enemies that are added to the game. For instance, with the Plains of Eidolon expansion extending the game's engagement ranges across larger landscapes, players are going to break out their old sniper rifles or start to collect them, with the purpose of having several sniper rifles at the ready depending upon the scenario. Another example is when DE added the Harrow warframe, which has a requirement to run a new mission type called Extraction in order to find one of its parts. Breaking down that mission's objectives and finding a custom build to overcome it led to me breaking out a frame I don't use as much, releveling it, and using a very custom set of weapons in a particular team role to solve it. This is how things go in Warframe.

If you want to collect a bunch of gear and then not use it that's up to you, but refining that gear to where its useful for different scenarios is the meaning behind it. And what may not be top tier right now could come into its own with a game update, or a new mod that changes how you can use them.

This is interesting but it illustrates that in order to overcome a challenge, you had to use a different frame that usual. But you were also already in possession of that Frame. If you hadn't been, then you would have had to grind for that Frame, wait the 3 days to craft, then work on that Frame's build before you could start tackling the challenge. Grind on Grind, to Grind some more. Sounds unappealing.

I feel this thread by Slayerage on the subreddit illustrates the issues better and what needs to be improved

Ah yes... top .02% PvE player suggesting to Bungie to overhaul everything for the sake of PvE at the expense of PvP. You'd see opposing points framed in a similar way, from top .02% PvP players as well. These aren't the guys to listen to when discussing the game as a whole.

You can take notes from PvE guys about PvE and PvP guys about PvP but you don't want to listen to them when they're suggesting things that change the content they don't specialize in.

 

[Rexatality]

My question there is, in Warframe, is there still RNG in terms of getting the drops from the missions in order to craft? Because that's how it was when I played. RNG on drops to power things up. RNG on drops to use in crafting. Several points where if you didn't have the right Frame for a mission that was necessary to beat in order to advance, you had to group with stronger players to basically carry you through it.



This is interesting but it illustrates that in order to overcome a challenge, you had to use a different frame that usual. But you were also already in possession of that Frame. If you hadn't been, then you would have had to grind for that Frame, wait the 3 days to craft, then work on that Frame's build before you could start tackling the challenge. Grind on Grind, to Grind some more. Sounds unappealing.



Ah yes... top .02% PvE player suggesting to Bungie to overhaul everything for the sake of PvE at the expense of PvP. You'd see opposing points framed in a similar way, from top .02% PvP players as well. These aren't the guys to listen to when discussing the game as a whole.

You can take notes from PvE guys about PvE and PvP guys about PvP but you don't want to listen to them when they're suggesting things that change the content they don't specialize in.

You know, it'd be nice if you stop justifying Bungie's design decisions especially when it's hurting the game long term

This isn't a hardcore vs casual issue.

 

[Niceguydan8]

My question there is, in Warframe, is there still RNG in terms of getting the drops from the missions in order to craft? Because that's how it was when I played. RNG on drops to power things up. RNG on drops to use in crafting. Several points where if you didn't have the right Frame for a mission that was necessary to beat in order to advance, you had to group with stronger players to basically carry you through it.

There are 4 resources per planet. These resources list from most common (on top) to the least common, on the bottom. One obtains these drops by running missions on those planets. So, for example, lets say you need a neurode. You run a mission on a planet that has neurodes on the drop list, and if you are really looking for a neurode, you look through the map to find a neurode. They have a chance to drop out of chests, lockers, or enemies, but generally if you do one mission on a planet with the resource, you will likely find one of that resource, especially if you spend time looking for it. So yeah, there is some variance to whether or not you get 3 neurodes on a mission instead of 1, but every single mission I've been in (over 300 hours) has at least one of the rarest material on the planet within that mission.

Endo (which is used to power things up) is acquired one of many ways. Duplicate mods is probably the most straightforward way to do that. So an enemy drops a mod that you already have. You convert that mod into Endo, which can be used to power up that mod you already had, for example. Endo also has a chance to be a reward from missions like Survival or Extraction. Endo can also randomly just drop off of enemies. Endo serves as a clan reward for ranking up. Endo also can be acquired during the sorites (end game daily quests).

Also, every single frame is viable in every single scenario. Some frames that have innate stealth make something like a Spy mission easier, but I don't use any of those frames and it's entirely possible to play through those missions without issue on a non-stealth frame.

I took a long break between playing Warframe so maybe something happened in between there, but I have never felt that a specific frame is ever required for anything. Every single frame is end-game viable. Some are obviously better than others, but it's never the case where an Excalibur is required to beat a certain mission, for example. You could theoretically use the same frame for the entire game if you wanted to. I wouldn't advise that, but the game is not balanced in a way that requires you to have multiple frames in the same way that Destiny doesn't require players to have multiple classes on their account in order to clear content. I only grind (most of the time it's not particularly a grueling grind) for frames that I want to try out. I've never grinded out a frame in Warframe because I felt it was necessary for progression.

I appreciate you continuing the discussion, but it sounds like you haven't kept up with or don't understand how Warframe works. That's entirely okay, but I think you have most of the game and it's mechanics pegged incorrectly. The game gives players the tools to make their own solutions to problems. There's not one set solution. There is so much customization that two players could be equally successful on a given mission with completely different loadouts. Hopefully I could help out

 

[Jest Chillin]

You know, it'd be nice if you stop justifying Bungie's design decisions especially when it's hurting the game long term

This isn't a hardcore vs casual issue.

I didn't say it was hardcore vs. casual. I literally pointed out that players who specialize in one part of the game tend to have bad suggestions regarding the part they don't specialize in.

So when Slayerage, who specializes in PvE to the extent that he 2-man'd the final raid boss in Destiny... says things like,

All abilities and guns had to be proportionally toned down so that each of the archetypes and subclasses couldn't have too much advantage over the others. This results in, IN MY OPINION, stale gameplay that by and far does not create opportunities for exciting moments.

and

so I'll just end on my take, which is that imbalance in favor of chaos (6v6, faster movement, stronger guns) is more in tune with the whole immortal-space-magic theme that makes Destiny unique.

and

Point being: balance inherently requires shooting down certain strong weapon ideas. I do not think that is worth it at all.

These things are in direct opposition to what top PvP players have said, which has praised the move to smaller fireteams in crucible and more focus on primary gun fights. He's making these suggestions because they will make the game more exciting to him in the PvE space but he really doesn't care at all about what it does to the PvP space.

He straight up says it:

Balance has taken a lot of the fun out of loot and the crucible without adding anything meaningful. Those who like it more this way are almost certainly rivaled by numbers who don't, because there's no question that the change is a matter of taste purely - but having less cool pve weapons is doubtlessly less fun. Therefore, balance has hurt the game more than it helps in my opinion.

Cutting off the nose to spite the face. I mean, he didn't even throw in a suggestion to separate PvE and PvP balance design, which is the bone that most PvE-only types throw out there to at least feign as if they care about PvP.

Informative post, snipped for space.

Thanks for the information. When I played, You had 3 frames to choose from. Loki, Excalibur, and Volt. If you happened to choose Loki, you had a MUCH harder time solo as he was extremely squishy in early game before you had a chance to mod him sufficiently. There was also one particular mission fairly early on that was extremely low rate of finishing in a matchmade group and blocked planetary progress. At that point in time, there were certain sections like that. The community solution was "join a clan and run stuff with them" which is pretty hit or miss tbh. I know they later changed up the starter Frames and overhauled/updated systems, added features, etc.. etc... By then, I had no interest in returning to the game because it was still going to be a long and complex road to endgame which wasn't appealing as the gameplay itself wasn't satisfying. Racing through randomly generated levels of the same tiles in new configurations just wasn't enjoyable for me.

 

[NullPointer]

This is interesting but it illustrates that in order to overcome a challenge, you had to use a different frame that usual. But you were also already in possession of that Frame. If you hadn't been, then you would have had to grind for that Frame, wait the 3 days to craft, then work on that Frame's build before you could start tackling the challenge. Grind on Grind, to Grind some more. Sounds unappealing.

I didn't *have to* and my solution to the problems of that mission was far from the only one. I could have gone with several alternatives to fit the bill for the specific idea I was going for, but the frame I chose and those weapons were the most optimized ones I had in my arsenal for the enemies we were fighting and the special circumstances of the mission type.

As an aside, my buddy who I played it with (just us two in a mission made for a full group) went a completely different direction, and we came up with ways to balance each other's ideas out.

But I did take the time to do my idea right, and that meant adding some mods I didn't have yet and couldn't afford in my chosen frame, so I took the time to relevel it up while progressing in other ways. So I'm patient, and honestly see the timers as a different rhythm that takes place across several game sessions across several days or weeks - a long term progression system that I play as a long term progression system. I don't need everything right this moment because there's always a ton of stuff on my list of to-dos whenever I start the game up. So if there's something I want, I might run a few missions, and if I get it, great - if not, I do something else for a while and come back to it later. I know its a grindy ass game, but I still don't farm ;p

Took me about a week (real time, with casual play sessions every few days) before we tried it again, and our ideas not only worked out well, but we got the parts and those builds are now saved loadouts for that particular new mission type.

 

[Niceguydan8]

. I mean, he didn't even throw in a suggestion to separate PvE and PvP balance design, which is the bone that most PvE-only types throw out there to at least feign as if they care about PvP.

I make that suggestion and it's not that I "feign" caring about PvP, I just think the PvP balancing hurts the PvE balancing significantly more than PvE hurts PvP.

I want people that enjoy PvP to continue enjoying the PvP. I also want to see more interesting guns in Destiny. So far, Bungie has shown me that they can't do both in a compelling way (at least not in D2), so to me the solution seems to be to separate them.

The game could fulfill a power fantasy much better than it currently does and provide a balanced PvP offering, I just think that requires separating the two to some extent. As of right now, i think it's an okay PvP game (I don't care for PvP, but it plays just fine) and a game that is reallly lacking when it comes to the looter aspect of it.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I didn't *have to* and my solution to the problems of that mission was far from the only one. I could have gone with several alternatives to fit the bill for the specific idea I was going for, but the frame I chose and those weapons were the most optimized ones I had in my arsenal for the enemies we were fighting and the special circumstances of the mission type.

As an aside, my buddy who I played it with (just us two in a mission made for a full group) went a completely different direction, and we came up with ways to balance each other's ideas out.

But I did take the time to do my idea right, and that meant adding some mods I didn't have yet and couldn't afford in my chosen frame, so I took the time to relevel it up while progressing in other ways. So I'm patient, and honestly see the timers as a different rhythm that takes place across several game sessions across several days or weeks - a long term progression system that I play as a long term progression system. I don't need everything right this moment because there's always a ton of stuff on my list of to-dos whenever I start the game up. So if there's something I want, I might run a few missions, and if I get it, great - if not, I do something else for a while and come back to it later. I know its a grindy ass game, but I still don't farm ;p

Took me about a week (real time, with casual play sessions every few days) before we tried it again, and our ideas not only worked out well, but we got the parts and those builds are now saved loadouts for that particular new mission type.

Sure. And I can appreciate that you enjoy these aspects of Warframe. But as an old WoW player that spent years doing dailies, farming, crafting, running Heroics, going through attunements just to stay relevant with progression (not leading it, just keeping up with the average playerbase)... I'm burned out on it. I don't want to spend my time like that anymore.

I make that suggestion and it's not that I "feign" caring about PvP, I just think the PvP balancing hurts the PvE balancing significantly more than PvE hurts PvP.

I want people that enjoy PvP to continue enjoying the PvP. I also want to see more interesting guns in Destiny. So far, Bungie has shown me that they can't do both in a compelling way (at least not in D2), so to me the solution seems to be to separate them.

The game could fulfill a power fantasy much better than it currently does and provide a balanced PvP offering, I just think that requires separating the two to some extent. As of right now, i think it's an okay PvP game (I don't care for PvP, but it plays just fine) and a game that is reallly lacking when it comes to the looter aspect of it.

It isn't that they can't but rather they don't want there to be a disconnect between the two modes. They decided that they want to cater to the people who do a little of both rather than separate the way weapons and builds work so that what works well in one mode operates differently in another. I have nothing against making improvements to either PvE or PvP... I'm just a fan of the balance as it is now.

 

[NullPointer]

Sure. And I can appreciate that you enjoy these aspects of Warframe. But as an old WoW player that spent years doing dailies, farming, crafting, running Heroics, going through attunements just to stay relevant with progression (not leading it, just keeping up with the average playerbase)... I'm burned out on it. I don't want to spend my time like that anymore.

There is no average that matters, nor Jones's to keep up with because all the various progression systems are cycles that are always repeating, and individual players might be maxed out with one frame, just starting at zero with another, half-way through with a weapon, etc. so you can end up straddling every part of that wheel of fortune, all at once, depending upon which gear and frames you use.

Or to put it better:

Warframe progression is largely lateral, not vertical. Getting to the point where you're powerful enough to complete sorties or high level endless missions doesn't take long. What you do from that point isn't increasing your power, but acquiring more options and different ways to play the game.

and for this:

It isn't that they can't but rather they don't want there to be a disconnect between the two modes. They decided that they want to cater to the people who do a little of both rather than separate the way weapons and builds work so that what works well in one mode operates differently in another. I have nothing against making improvements to either PvE or PvP... I'm just a fan of the balance as it is now.

The idea of seamlessly moving between PvP and PvE with the same gear and mechanics at work is a really great one. It just doesn't seem to work in practice without seriously compromising one part of the equation, or both.

 

[Niceguydan8]

It isn't that they can't but rather they don't want there to be a disconnect between the two modes. They decided that they want to cater to the people who do a little of both rather than separate the way weapons and builds work so that what works well in one mode operates differently in another. I have nothing against making improvements to either PvE or PvP... I'm just a fan of the balance as it is now.

Oh I'm not suggesting that they can't separate them, I'm suggesting that I think they can't create compelling exotic gear in PvE because it impacts balance in PvP.

I'm not opposed to them going the way they are, but I also think it's going to continue to be a fairly bland loot game if they continue the trend. If they want to go that way, that's more than okay with me, it just dampens any excitement for seeing where they go with loot.

 

[WickedLaharl]

I cannot believe the fact that bungie removed strike specific loot.

 

[Smokey_Run]

I cannot believe the fact that bungie removed strike specific loot.

Game feels like it needed another 6 months to a year. Not surprising when there were rumors last January that parts of D2 were being rebooted with a new leadership team being put in charge of the project.

 

[Zeneric]

So the open world patch is out this week. Sweet. Will check Warframe out when the patch is out.

 

[ZugZug123]

Funny thing, I got into Warframe via the Twitch Prime promo while being super hyped for D2.

3months later, I'm hooked into Warframe and will skip D2 after playing the beta and not finding anything impressive about it. I love how good the movement feels in Warframe and once I found a primary and melee weapons (Boltor / Galatide) I liked to use, the gunplay felt better for me.

One thing I would recommend for new Warframe players is to do try to find friends/clan. That will give you access to playing with more experienced players and there are some weapons whose blueprints are only available via clan research.

But even if you solo the game, you should be able to open up your way to the first portion of the Void, at which point you will have access to crafting material good for 90% of all the gear. Most of my planet exploration was done solo with the exception of those capture 4 points maps (Interception) and none of those blocked the way to move forward to another planet.

FYI, the Frost Prime from the Twitch promo is a tankier/more defensive frame compared to the starter ones, definitely recommend getting that if you have Amazon Prime (which gets you Twitch prime by default). I was trying to not use it and focusing on Excalibur at the start, but oh boy, any defensive leaning task is so much better to solo with Frost.

 

[MaKTaiL]

FYI, the Frost Prime from the Twitch promo is a tankier/more defensive frame compared to the starter ones, definitely recommend getting that if you have Amazon Prime (which gets you Twitch prime by default). I was trying to not use it and focusing on Excalibur at the start, but oh boy, any defensive leaning task is so much better to solo with Frost.

Regarding Twitch Prime, I just want to let people know that Frost Prime will be leaving the promotion sometime this week. Soma Prime and Scindo Prime will take it's place. So anyone still interested make sure to grab that free trial as soon as possible so you can score Frost Prime and the two new weapons.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

Honestly the real truth here is that Warframe also has problems with its end game. I have close to 1000 hours in warframe, I have no use for standard materials and I can generally grind the rare materials I need if I want to build something in an hour or so, so polygon's claim about every session being rewarding is like, not the most correct statement. Even going in to crack open a few relics rarely yields anything that won't just be fodder for the next void trader appearance. And I rarely do the sorties anymore because what's the point of another trash riven to sink a ton of kuva into or my 110th ayatan sculpture?

Basically if I want to build something unless it requires nitain I can usually just pop it in the oven and wait until it's done. So while my large play time might put me in the minority, I got my friend into Warframe at the start of the summer and he's started running into similar problems. There are very few things that feel like they're worth doing to me, at least until PoE releases other than logging in, doing the sortie and checking alerts. You really need to set your own goals.

Sure there are raids in warframe but because of the nature of warframe the only raid specific thing you can get out of them are arcanes and they're not particularly necessary for any content. Especially with PoE releasing and arcanes getting reworked. Basically because you can get just about anything from anything in warframe there are few reasons to do a lot of the content. A lot of people (myself included) generally only like doing survival, defense, assassination or interception missions whenever we need something.

A lot of the player base jokes that warframe only has 2 real end games, fashion frame and helping new players lol.

As far "mods your way", this is also true to a point. You CAN technically build things however you want however the reality is every single weapon will use the base damage mod, multishot, some combination of the elemental damage mods, and either build for status or crit depending on the weapon. Realistically you get 1 or maybe 2 mod slots to play with. The bulk of mods that don't contribute to your weapon's damage in some way just aren't considered useful, the two main exceptions here are punch through (helps clear hordes) and ammo mutations to increase the amount of ammo you get (some weapons have horrible ammo economy and need this to be useful). Modding your warframe is a lot more satisfying because you can build to specialize in one of your 4 skills, a balanced build, a tanky build or a mobile build and they're all generally viable.

Don't get me wrong, warframe is a wonderful game and it's a very one of a kind game gameplay wise, but lets not pretend that it has stellar end game. Because there is no end game. The closest there is to actual end game is seeing how far you can get to in endless survival before you get wiped.

The joy of warframe is figuring out how to be more broken than the game allows lol, it's about combining your guns and warframe so in perfect harmony they're doing stupidly powerful things. There isn't really an end game, you've reached the end game when you're bored of warframe.

 

[NullPointer]

There isn't really an end game, you've reached the end game when you're bored of warframe.

This works for me

When I've gotten bored with it or just gotten deluged with other games I always end up coming back at some point - usually after a big update, only to find my zone with the game all over again.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

This works for me

When I've gotten bored with it or just gotten deluged with other games I always end up coming back at some point - usually after a big update, only to find my zone with the game all over again.

Right and that's fine with a lot of people, after all since the game is F2P the beauty of it is that if you're bored you just leave the game alone until a big patch comes out and then you come back and binge for a few months.
The only real downside is that the game gave me all this power but I have nothing to use it on lol.

 

[Niceguydan8]

Right and that's fine with a lot of people, after all since the game is F2P the beauty of it is that if you're bored you just leave the game alone until a big patch comes out and then you come back and binge for a few months.
The only real downside is that the game gave me all this power but I have nothing to use it on lol.

Isn't that kind of how these sorts of games generally work? I felt the same way with Diablo.

 

[Bold One]

Eventually, all grind games hit a wall, Warframe just hides for much longer behind a plaster of tedium.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

Isn't that kind of how these sorts of games generally work? I felt the same way with Diablo.

Eh diablo 3 gives you something to keep working towards WITH your new powerful gear, the greater rift leaderboards are an example of that. Warframe doesn't particularly offer such a thing.

Eventually, all grind games hit a wall, Warframe just hides for much longer behind a plaster of tedium.

Unfortunately this is quite true lol.

 

[texhnolyze]

So the open world patch is out this week. Sweet. Will check Warframe out when the patch is out.

I believe the map is not for low-level characters, so you might want to start today in preparation of the new open world map.

 

[Niceguydan8]

I believe the map is not for low-level characters, so you might want to start today in preparation of the new open world map.

Low level characters can still explore. During the day, the enemies get stronger the farther one is away from the hub city.

 

[texhnolyze]

Low level characters can still explore. During the day, the characters get stronger the farther one is away from the hub city.

That's good to know.

 

[Vilam]

I'm going to take this thread as yet another reminder that I should set aside Destiny 2 for awhile and check out Warframe.

 

[Syf]

I'm going to take this thread as yet another reminder that I should set aside Destiny 2 for awhile and check out Warframe.

I'm going to give it another try before buying Destiny 2 at least.

 

[JustSurvive]

Honestly, I had a ton of fun with D2, but there is no reason for me to turn it on anymore. I'm not a fan of the new PvP experience (just not my cup of tea).

We need Bigger Worlds to explore with more meaningful rewards rather than relying on "slot machine" engrams that constantly generate duplicates. I remember them talking about how EDZ was huge....tbh, it's just a little bit bigger than the Cosmodrome.

Lost Sectors? After PL265....what's the point? They don't provide ANY challenge, no excitement or sense of discovery...no meaningful reward....nothing.

Challenges/Tokens? Again, what's the point? What meaningful reward or challenge do you get out of completing or collecting these? Faction gear all cap below your current power level. Ranking up a faction provides no incentive whatsoever.

Public Events/Heroic Public Events? They're fun at first, but again...no point. Mod System? Very underwhelming and limited. Storage? Why are they so stingy about giving players more space?


List goes on...There is so much more I can say...but I'm sure most people here understand what I'm getting at.

When they revealed all that content they added to the patrol zones I was initially so excited for it, but now looking back after a month with this game, I have hardly touched anything outside of what was required to progress the story. You reach the endgame so fast in D2 you blow past so much content that isn't worth going back to as it gives you nothing of value.

I will say in some ways I do find it better than how D1 was handled as the endless endgame grind was not fun at all, I remember running VOG so many times to get nothing but one weapon/armor piece I already had and shards; however they may have course corrected a bit too much the other way as now you don't have the need to see a good portion of the content. Even when it comes to strikes, I don't think I have even seen them all yet as that is another content loop that you can easily pass by without touching.

I first played Warframe around the launch of the PS4, but only checked into it once since then (earlier this year). It was so overwhelming all the stuff you can do I did not know where to begin, always think about going back to the game, but it might be best to just start fresh with a new character rather than trying to figure out where I left off.

 

[Plague Doctor]

Something needs to be done.

I don´t care where they learn from as long as the learn something. They could just look a their own game and draw some conclusions.

This is not a hardcore vs. casual thing and I don't understand why people try to spin it into just that.

There is nothing "hardcore" about having a reason to play adventures or lost sectors.
I don´t think the casuals are happy that there is no reason to ever play a single strike.

I have been 305 for about a week now and I don´t know why I should play the nightfall ever again or do any of the milestones on Tuesday.

Yes, some things should be locked behind significant time investment, but they should be purely cosmetic.

Make 305 easily attainable for everybody - fine, but leave some bars in there for me to fill up.

There are little things that could be done that would not disrupt the playerbase that I would really appreciate.

How about a quest on every exotic - 10.000 kills - BOOM - exclusive ornament. I´d be up for that.

Super cool ship for completing 100 Strikes? Cool shader for 100 Crucible matches?


Go Bungie. Turn this around. There is a great framework here.

A lot of these things are pretty good. I think it needs to be a community thing personally with some personal achievements.

1. Like globally showing the amount of times "X" strike has been completed and once that bar is open, an exclusive extra zone, boss, or storyline is open for it that provides new loot for all players. Nightfalls build that meter faster.

2. Your career kills against one of the enemy factions is tallied and unlocks new lore (all within the game itself in a form of a grimoire section of the gui). When it is maxed out, it opens a questline relevant to that enemy faction for exclusive rewards.

3. A certain amount of Public Events completed by the community a week in a specific map will open up a Public Raid Boss event at a certain time.

4. Those named yellow enemies should have a chance to drop something specific and not just a chest/generic purple engram.

 

[Symbiotx]

1 month vs 4 years. Destiny 2 will grow.

 

[Raven117]

I will say in some ways I do find it better than how D1 was handled as the endless endgame grind was not fun at all, I remember running VOG so many times to get nothing but one weapon/armor piece I already had and shards; however they may have course corrected a bit too much the other way as now you don't have the need to see a good portion of the content. Even when it comes to strikes, I don't think I have even seen them all yet as that is another content loop that you can easily pass by without touching.

I

It seems like they over-corrected on alot of things. One, Loot....Pure and simple. There aren't many guns out there that really make you drool. Fatebringer, G-horn..etc. They toned the "Fun" of these guns waaaay back.

Then, they took out some of the grind. While I support that one should not have to play Destiny like a job, there should be a few things...novelties even, for those who WANT to play the game like a job. Even the "Record Books" while a little lazy would helped out.

They also missed the mark on the Strikes and Adventures this go around as you pointed out. There is just no reason to do them. Its a shame because they obviously put some work in to them.

I don't know how they will re calibrate, but until then...I play for a bit every so often and hope there is something to chase.

 

[Jack Scofield]

Three years of Destiny and Bungie has still not perfected the endgame?

 

[Smokey_Run]

1 month vs 4 years. Destiny 2 will grow.

You normally don't regress in many areas with a sequel.

 

[Maintenance]

 

 

[Orochinagis]

1 month vs 4 years. Destiny 2 will grow.

With DLC, 20 dollars minimum because god forbid them to add free content.

People said the narrative got better, but we had paid for it

 

[katsais]

Interesting. I’m a 3K+ hours D1 veteran, and D2 falls short. It’s literally D1 rebooted with a less replayable PvE and same shitty PvP. I used to play D1 every day, and now I find myself playing D2 3 days a week, and even forcing myself on the 3rd day.

Time to give Warframe a chance.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

This is where Bungie failed, I could easily see the mod system allowing both camps to be happy here.

You could tie specific mod drops specific activities and they could be a little more forgiving so it's not as much a grind.

But, these drops can be slotted into all weapons, allowing some crazy customization. Streamers would be grinding enough mats and weapons to find the best rolls and combinations. Meanwhile those with less time can just hold onto their mats and weapons and wait for the meta to sort out, instead of an endless grind.

Imagine (light) farming a lost sector for Firefly and adding it to an auto riffle you like?

There's so many ways they can expand end games without going to pure grinds it's not even funny, just sad that nothing was implemented for launch.

Hell, the mod system could even be used to separate PvP / PvE by slotting perks that are only active in one vs the other.

Please, no. I enjoy Warframe's style, too, but Destiny's particular genius has always been to offer a huge array of tools for whatever situation you find yourself in. As it is, mods make it so that swapping in and out armor pieces is difficult, exacerbated by the fact that many are tied to certain elemental subclasses. I don't want that problem to continue.

 

[Izayoi]

For me, it's the difference in the way that the games treat you - and the expectations they have of you as a player.

Destiny treats you like a child. Like you are incapable of logical thought beyond the level of a sixth grader. It holds your hand and gives you a tiny amount of options for character classes, loadouts, customization, etc.

Warframe treats you like you have a PhD in gaming. It gives you dozens of classes (30+), hundreds of options for loadouts (well over a hundred unique weapons - weapons that all perform, look, and act wildly different from one another, and dozens of mods with which to augment them), and thousands of customization settings (you can change your character's animations, right down to how they holster and wield their weapons - it's insane).

I feel like Destiny revels in patronizing its players. It acts as if you've never touched a videogame in your life. Warframe, on the other hand, treats you like an adult - and is aware that you are not an idiot, and can make rational and logical decisions about the way you build your character and approach missions.

All other things aside (and there are a lot of other things, obviously), this aspect alone places Warframe far above Destiny for me.

 

[Niceguydan8]

1 month vs 4 years. Destiny 2 will grow.

Destiny as a series has been out for over three years. Destiny 2 grew in some ways and absolutely got smaller in other places.

I mean, I get that they threw out a lot of solutions they had already established in the expansions following the base launch, but they've had a lot of time to build on their systems and fix issues with the game. Instead of adding and changing the base game(like Warframe does), they just made a new one.

Not even acknowledging the three years Destiny 1 was out on the market really cheapens this point.

 

[Izayoi]

Interesting. I’m a 3K+ hours D1 veteran, and D2 falls short. It’s literally D1 rebooted with a less replayable PvE and same shitty PvP. I used to play D1 every day, and now I find myself playing D2 3 days a week, and even forcing myself on the 3rd day.

Time to give Warframe a chance.

Drop by the OT. The folks there have been incredibly helpful to me when I was starting out a few weeks ago. The in-game clan and our alliance is full of wonderful people.

 

[Aztechnology]

This is where Bungie failed, I could easily see the mod system allowing both camps to be happy here.

You could tie specific mod drops specific activities and they could be a little more forgiving so it's not as much a grind.

But, these drops can be slotted into all weapons, allowing some crazy customization. Streamers would be grinding enough mats and weapons to find the best rolls and combinations. Meanwhile those with less time can just hold onto their mats and weapons and wait for the meta to sort out, instead of an endless grind.

Imagine (light) farming a lost sector for Firefly and adding it to an auto riffle you like?

There's so many ways they can expand end games without going to pure grinds it's not even funny, just sad that nothing was implemented for launch.

Hell, the mod system could even be used to separate PvP / PvE by slotting perks that are only active in one vs the other.

It's simply not possible with the way Bungie is trying to create this meek universal gameplay. They can't push PVP or PVE into an interesting direction when they are trying to make sure gear balances carry over correctly between them. They clearly have a different priority, I can't remember their name, but a big Destiny vid maker did a good job of covering I think what Bungies objective is with Destiny 2. And it's not creating unique gameplay loops unfortunately. It's creating an environment where casual players will feel that each week they've "Completed" the weeks offerings, and won't fall behind the more hard core players.

Everything in Destiny 2, more or less, has been designed around making things more level all around. The sad effect of that, is most of the gear, in a loot based game has become rather dull and homogenous. The agency for playing around with builds and gear is almost non-existent. But even if they did, the way they've set up the content wouldn't complement the system they have anyway. And you'd just bee back to grinding for mods/rolls that give you a competitive advantage in PVP more or less.

 

[Aztechnology]

1 month vs 4 years. Destiny 2 will grow.

So we're not counting Destiny 1? That's weird that we'd give Destiny leeway here because it's a "new game" (It's not really). Many similar titles usually expand their content, with expansions, instead of replacing. If anything you'd think we'd be lamenting the fact they didn't bring back any of Destiny 1's content for replay.

I realize this is also silly, and there's more to folding in content from the first game then simply dragging and dropping (Also download/patch etc. Sizes are an issue). I'm just saying you cannot really use the Destiny is a month old argument here, after we had three years of development within D1. Which they apparently didn't take much away from.

I also have to wonder, have they started development of Destiny 3? If they have, and they're still learning, does it mean that D3 is essentially going to reset the progress made throughout D2?