The state of NeoGAF

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I've been lurking and posting here for years. But I stopped going into discussions on OT because I got banned during E3 because of it. I liked it here. But having a proper discussion was impossible. I was sick of 20 people jumping at me calling me all kinds of nasty things instead of actually discussing. Trying to make me angry and not reading my posts and completely ignoring my points. Escalating to the point of me leaving the thread or somehow getting banned. Things I can talk about in public or in a bar with random people without any issues. I question things. I try to soak up knowledge from all kinds of different perspectives and form my own opinions instead of subscribing to an ideology. So I ask a lot of questions and don't consider anyone to hold a monopoly on truth especially when it's politically loaded. But I will listen to people and adjust my opinion. I don't see anything as being black or white and I like talking about a lot of social issues from a philosophical perspective. Because many sciences and philosophies are contradicting. So it's challenging to people subscribing to one ideology or way of thinking. And it pisses people off when their strongly held beliefs are being challenged.
I feel these complaints with you, but something I've learned after decades online is that you get back the energy you're putting out, whether you realize it happening or not.

Because like above, you are a hypocrite.
Can you explain? You don't know anything about me!
 
And for the uninformed? A lot of people get their news from here. Are people supposed to nod along to what people are saying without even knowing whats being talked about?

Do you hate people? No. Then there isn't anything to discuss about Bannon.
 
So what were all of you talking about since apparently you could never just talk about games?

Well we're not sure, but all we know is that we can finally talk about games. We can give our insightful comments on games without persecution, comments like:

"day one!"
"just buy the game already!"
"I'm in!"
"Hype!"
 
And for the uninformed? A lot of people get their news from here. Are people supposed to nod along to what people are saying without even knowing whats being talked about?

FYI, you weren't going to get banned unless the mods specially told you not do something in a thread. If you post, "hey, so, um, why is this wrong?" You might get a bunch of responses but you're not going to catch a ban unless it's super obvious like, "hey, pewdiepie isn't racist for saying the N word".

Context matters.

It isn't binary that gamergaters want you to believe. Difference of opinion was allowed, just don't double down on stuff that is demonstrably wrong or harmful to other people.
 
Legit question but why are people rushing for a permaban? I mean like what if the other forum doesn't work out? What if they decide to go back here?

I mean we're obviously at the peak of this chaos but it will pass... Rushing through this thinking is kind of baffling actually and not well thought out.

They could just log out.
 
Leaving a forum because the owner allegedly did something that sounds modestly rapey is depriving you of a great community to participate in. Would you also leave the US because our president is a vile immoral egomaniac who sells hatred and bigotry? No, you stand put, weather the storm, and focus on the good shit.

For me, it's almost more about just how badly he responded to the situation than it is the event itself. See the statements he gave journalists: https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...ct-allegations-rocking-neogafs-last-48-hoursd

The US is a bit of a different story, because you don't choose to live here. Sure you can immigrate elsewhere, but that requires going through a citizenship process and losing your job and stuff.

In this case, the mods are setting up on ResetEra, and I'm expecting a pretty big migration there. The mods are what really shape a community. And I REALLY don't want to contribute content to a site that thinks it can just delete half of all the contributions anyone has ever made at the snap of a finger, because they have become inconvenient.
 
You didn't know the forum I was talking about. Get over it and stop with the red herrings. Every time you're proven wrong you try to change the subject. Every single time.

Neither did you because you were lying all about it.
 
Everyone posting threads asking for a ban are just attention-seeking knobs. Just leave. You’d make your statement by not participating.
 
FYI, you weren't going to get banned unless the mods specially told you not do something in a thread. If you post, "hey, so, um, why is this wrong?" You might get a bunch of responses but you're not going to catch a ban unless it's super obvious like, "hey, pewdiepie isn't racist for saying the N word".

Context matters.

It isn't binary that gamergaters want you to believe. Difference of opinion was allowed, just don't double down on stuff that is demonstrably wrong or harmful to other people.

I call bullsh*t. It happened. There are two mods that literally got caught doing this kind of thing.
 
You don't get it, do you? See, even here, you subtly accuse me of being some closet Nazi.

Let's see. I've been promoting generally anarchist, anti-capitalistic ideals for decades. That said, I do understand some of the benefits of both hierarchy and capitalism... it's not a cut and dried issue, especially when you take the present state of humanity into consideration. I'm pro love, and support you loving whoever the hell you want to love. I support legalization, even though I don't do drugs. I support privacy. I think our criminal system is antiquated and broken, with a fair amount of racism baked in [coke vs crack, etc]. I think prisons themselves create more problems than they solve and that we need to find a better solution than breaking up families. I've supported some sort of universal basic income solution for decades before it became hip, though I recognize there are significant economic issues that would need to be resolved and it's not a simple solution. I think both major parties in the US are anti-people and pro-big business. I think my taxes support murder overseas, and it pains me to pay them. I don't care what your religion is [or anything else], I only care about our interactions. I believe in being kind. I believe in personal responsibility, though that doesn't mean I believe people shouldn't work together to help everyone. I believe in open borders [heck, I don't even like the concept of borders]. I don't care where you were born, or what language you speak. If I see someone in trouble, I will try to help them. I've been part of cooperatives, I try to shop local [except gaming], I am anti-violence and anti-war. I love cats.

How long of an essay do I need to write before I'm 'okay'. Did I pass your purity test yet?

Oh, by the way, remember when you already implied I was some sort of Nazi because I feel like I can't express my opinions? Have you noticed you embody exactly what I say the problem was? I spoke up... so I must be the enemy, right?

But let's see -- you asked to "hear some of these opinions" that people are afraid to discuss. Okay, that's easy. Mention free speech, get treated like a Nazi [in fact, that's what got me involved in this conversation thread]. Talk about presumption of innocence, and you're propagating rape culture. Ask a question, and you'll get a response like "Oh, just questions. Riiiight. I see through you." Criticize Clinton and you'll be called a white supremacist Trump supporter. Man, I've hated Trump and everything he stood for from before he was a celebrity. I despise Clinton, too, though.

No. I've been fighting the fight for decades. Longer than people in their twenties have been alive. But that doesn't mean I support the culture of accusation you clearly participate in.

You assume the worst. Oh, he's defending free speech? What awful things do you want to say? The only awful thing I want to say is that your style of attack is gross.

Discussion is important. Discussion allows me to talk about things important to me, like the problem with our prison systems. But what people do here is try to shut others down with accusations, subtle and not-so-subtle, just like you did. That's ugly. That doesn't encourage growth and debate, it shuts it down.


God

Excellent post
 
Naw, I'm sure they wouldn't mind.

Also, I gotta question your memory about what transpired in that thread. Are you sure it was 100% dogling and zero discussion about Drumpf and Bannon?

Like zero?

What percent would you say?

Curious.

I don't know it's been a while since I last checked the stats for that thread so my numbers might be off. What would you say 100%? 0%? 200%?


I don't think it really matters. If you want me to give a number shooting from the hip I would say 80% of the thread was people saying he looks like a dead drunk zombie with the occasional post saying something of actual substance.



And yes they do mind. It's a rule. Stop talking nonsense.
 
Legit question but why are people rushing for a permaban? I mean like what if the other forum doesn't work out? What if they decide to go back here?

I mean we're obviously at the peak of this chaos but it will pass... Rushing through this thinking is kind of baffling actually and not well thought out.

Because most of those people don't want to support EviLore I imagine.
Which is something that won't change unless EviLore gives the site.
Also incase you don't know, EviLore has stated himself that he posted revenge porn.
 
I call bullsh*t. It happened. There are two mods that literally got caught doing this kind of thing.

OK, sweet. How many cases of wrongfully bans for a simple disagreement?

How many of those compared to all the bans in NeoGAF's history? I'm going to be conservative and say under 1%.

I don't know it's been a while since I last checked the stats for that thread so my numbers might be off. What would you say 100%? 0%? 200%?


I don't think it really matters. If you want me to give a number shooting from the hip I would say 80% of the thread was people saying he looks like a dead drunk zombie with the occasional post saying something of actual substance.



And yes they do mind. It's a rule. Stop talking nonsense.


Ah, so there was discussion.

Interesting.

Very interesting.

FYI, it does matter cause you just admitted there was legit discussion.
 
Legit question but why are people rushing for a permaban? I mean like what if the other forum doesn't work out? What if they decide to go back here?

I mean we're obviously at the peak of this chaos but it will pass... Rushing through this thinking is kind of baffling actually and not well thought out.

They could just log out.

They feel they are making a statement.
 
Let me assure everyone, I’m not going fucking anywhere.

I almost lost my marriage and substantial sums of money due to an illicit affair I had while playing mobile strike. Did that stop me from continuing to offer my opinions on neogaf? No it did not. Now is the time for us all to take stock in who we are and double down. Not run.

Leaving a forum because the owner allegedly did something that sounds modestly rapey is depriving you of a great community to participate in. Would you also leave the US because our president is a vile immoral egomaniac who sells hatred and bigotry? No, you stand put, weather the storm, and focus on the good shit.

I didn’t lose my wife and kids due to my online fling on Mobile Strike because I made the hard decision to break things off and curb my passions. Today, I’m better off for it. This forum can bounce back too. We just need to accept our weaknesses and move forward as a group.

I've been a member of neogaf, and before that gaming age forum for close to 20 years. Not going anywhere. I'm a centrist, so if anyone doesn't fit in here, it's me. I hate Trumpism, I'm no fan of Clintonism, SJW madness, or any of the hypocrisy on the left. Hell, I had to write in candidates the last two elections because both sides were either too right or too left. But I do fit in because I like games. That's what neogaf is about- games. Why don't we try talking about our common interest (i.e. games), and leave everything else at the door.
 
And I suppose you know everything about me? Right?
tenor.gif
 
Everyone posting threads asking for a ban are just attention-seeking knobs. Just leave. You’d make your statement by not participating.
How else are they going to have a link to share with other dumbasses on Twitter? Imagine being an adult who brags on social media about leaving a ridiculous final post on a video game forum. It must be the highlight of the week for some of these idiots.
 
This thread is everything that was wrong with NeoGAF and I am now convinced it will never change.

Also, here are some words I encourage Tyler to meditate on:


Humility
Responsibility
Integrity
 
Sometimes I think social media is the root problem of all these things, also hearsay news, heh. But that's just me.
 
I laughed at a racial joke in the confines of my company while having a beer, clearly I am the equivalent of Hitler and an alt right scum.
At this point, I'm wondering when it's going to be as obvious to you as it is to us that the problem you have isn't with others. Seriously, why did you just type this?
 
Sometimes I think social media is the root problem of all these things, also hearsay news, heh. But that's just me.

Hearsay news eh
Guess I need to post this again since there are some people who seem to have already forgotten after 2 page. Wow, how the mind slips!

"Allegedly"

Opening admitting to sexually assaulting someone(then banning anyone who called him out for it)
1508785001663-WgTMVEd.jpeg


Posting revenge porn with their real full names then another admin(a now jailed pedophile) printed the photos and jacked off over them and sent it to the boyfriend.
uRGmEGL.jpg


You're right, how can we even know if he's guilty or not? HMMMM

Also:
6B7C1lb.jpg
 
What BS?

That people claiming there were witch hunts is really just a fabrication created in the minds of those who were bit by their own ignorance?

Like, you do realize the grand majority of those who say they were targets of witch hunts or seen them are lying right? Can you direct me to any thread or posts that show a witch hunt? What about 10? 20? With the size of NeoGAF there should be plenty of examples. Guess what? None are ever brought up and when they are they get called out like AALLX for being a liar.

But guess what? They'll still believe and parrot they were victims.

You want to throw up your hands in faux innocence and declare that there are and have been no witch hunts, that the "grand majority" of people who say they were targets are nothing more than liars, right after having posted this?

So, what is the state of NeoGAF? All I can see is the more likable / progressive posters leaving en masse. You then have this silent group coming up and starting to lay the foundation to normalize their views by believing themselves to be victims of oppression. They clearly don't care about context or believe that their words carried harmful weight. You got all the key terms like, "safe place", "SFW", "wrong-think", "witch hunts", "disagreement bans". Like, they clearly only care about getting back at them damn SJWs *shakes fist in the air* and not dissent because avenues for dissent are being removed entirely. Is this the current and future state? That sucks. Maybe Evilore can stabilize things but at the moment the gamergaters are taking root and they're being pretty blatant about it. Hopefully the pool of mods Evilore can choose from doesn't include them.

So where is there a comparable number or group of visible and appreciated NON-progressive posters here on NeoGAF? You say there are no witch hunts. You never bother to mention the absolute chilling effect that has been in place on these forums, while unintentionally making this point directly by mentioning this "silent group coming up and starting to lay the foundation to normalize their views".

WHY ARE THEY "SILENT" EXACTLY? My god, I actually have to ask a basic logical question here. WHY ARE THEY SILENT? WTF HAVE THEY BEEN ALL OF THESE YEARS? Oh yeah, no witch hunts here. No one is being called a racist that didn't deserve to be called one, except, oh yeah, just earlier in this thread it is basically "any republican is a racist or supportive of racism or completely ignorant. try and debate this if possible". As if that kind of rampant sentiment was the exception, RATHER THAN THE DAILY EVER PRESENT NORM.

People are silent because there has been a clear chilling effect here on NeoGAF. You have lived in a protective bubble for progressive echo chamber group think. All a person needed to do is post an opinion that diverged from the largely leftist norms here and they were most likely to have at least 2-3 people immediately assume the worst motivations and possible intentions on their part. A person had to literally prove their innocence, which was rarely ever believed as a whole. You were outside the circle of progressive virtue. That you are trying to portray it as being otherwise, while completely stating the obvious nature of things unintentionally, is evidence of your own intellectual failings or refusal to listen to or acknowledge the clear statements by others as to THEIR OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCES.


They clearly don't care about context or believe that their words carried harmful weight. You got all the key terms like, "safe place", "SFW", "wrong-think", "witch hunts", "disagreement bans". Like, they clearly only care about getting back at them damn SJWs *shakes fist in the air* and not dissent because avenues for dissent are being removed entirely.
You also denigrate and label opposition to you with words that "carry harmful weight". Your "progressive" ilk has been doing so for years, almost completely unopposed or criticized on this forum until the owner of this forum, who specifically accepted and promoted the labeling and attacks on those opposing your ilk, until he transgressed those very values he pretended to hold to, and your beloved progressives left in droves in response. But wait! Now "dissent" is apparently precious again. Now the fear is WHAT exactly? That other will impose their positions and beliefs like you and your ilk were largely absolutely ecstatic to do here??? Are you afraid that your progressive groupthink echo chamber is going to be exchanged for one that doesn't echo in your favor?? Save precious dissent as long as it benefits you and doesn't interfere with your crushing of it in favor of your favorite flavor of progressivism!

All because people finally feel emboldened enough to state their own experiences and opinions, for once. Because the progressive morass of moderators and fallen leader are not being vigilant to defend themselves or their desire for a forum devoid of opposing political/social viewpoints. So a forum vacuum of power of sorts exists, and suddenly, THERE IS MORE FREE SPEECH and no chilling effect, because really, who at this point cares if they are banned. At the least, people with viewpoints in opposition to yours get to say what they are thinking without the fear or sudden appearance of a heavy progressive boot to the throat.

Has anyone seriously suggested a mirror based exchange of one kind of toxic groupthink for another? No. You fear what you have enjoyed. I think most who have viewed this forum as being mostly toxic, which it has been for quite some time, would rather have a standard of CIVILITY and well reasoned debate/discussions. Instead of being literally accused of racism because someone might be a Republican, which just happened earlier in this very thread.


Complete strawman.

If you're a Republican you are either completely uninformed, ok with racism, or supportive of racism. It's just facts... :/

Doesn't make you a nazi, but no need to cuddle your views.

Explain how a Republican is not one of three above and we can discuss.
 
Hearsay news eh

Generally speaking of course. Not necessarily that.

But still, no one is perfect and I try not to associate one's acts with the community, but hey that's just me. I like this community and I'm glad the politically driven posts are near-gone, end of story.
 
Their statement is worthless. It achieves bugger and makes them look like attention-whores.

The same can be said of all protests. While I am not one to participate in them because of this, it feels foolish to me to hold a negative view of those who would participate just because they are doing what they can to have a voice.
 
Now assumptions are bad?

Let's lay some facts for you:

1) He entered a thread that was heavily moderated and warned you shouldn't shitpost and actually engage the arguments
2) He didn't follow those rules
3) He was banned

What purpose comes from a live debate? I've asked the other guy but he seemed to deflect then bounced. Can you tell me? What purpose is there to debating whether or not women are negatively defined in the video game industry? It's an honest question. You should think about the answer clearly and then understand the people in that thread came to the same conclusion you will come to.



Why do you feel as if Bannon has validity? We already know his arguments are bullshit.

What you are presenting now is a circular argument. You say he was banned because he broke the rules and he broke the rules because he was banned. Thats all those "facts" you present say. This is actually extraordinary. The discussion is whether or not he was shitposting, and as proof, you are presenting me with "facts" that say that you get banned for shitposting. Amazing.

The second part of your post is absolutely irrelevant, as others have pointed out, but sure, ill bite. I frequently seek out debates about influential people on the internet, both people i am in agreement with and those im not, especially when im not in the mood for reading longer essays or pieces, as it is more easily digested and you get a broad sense of the arguments. I do this both for people whom i agree with and disagree with, so right of the top of my head is a valid reason ask that question.
 
At this point, I'm wondering when it's going to be as obvious to you as it is to us that the problem you have isn't with others. Seriously, why did you just type this?

And I am wondering when it will become obvious to you and your peers, that your fanaticism and extreme bias, ready to vilify at first chance and put up labels, is not doing anything good to these important social issues of our days, but rather you magnify these issues and make them even worse because you promote nothing but hostility.
 
Hey guys, if you're upset about people calling you racist, it's really easy to not be racist? Being called this is not a problem for people who actually don't have weird as fuck feelings about other races.

And I am wondering when it will become obvious to you and your peers, that your fanaticism and extreme bias, ready to vilify at first chance and put up labels, is not doing anything good to these important social issues of our days, but rather you magnify these issues and make them even worse because you promote nothing but hostility.
Are you checking yourself, man?
 
Generally speaking of course. Not necessarily that.

But still, no one is perfect and I try not to associate one's acts with the community, but hey that's just me.

I feel there is a huge gap between no one is perfect and posting revenge porn of someone.
Not to mention this is a forum, the admin abusing his power like the last example definitely changes the community.
 
Use wayback machine, though it might take awhile to find an example
Yeah it's not finding the thread. Thanks for warning about the site.

I don't have an easy way, but you could put search terms into Google with site:neogaf.com and then use Google's cache. If the cache button isn't available, or you need to follow a link, copy the URL into http://cachedview.com
This is kind of working. I can't move beyond the first page though unfortunately.
 
You want to throw up your hands in faux innocence and declare that there are and have been no witch hunts, that the "grand majority" of people who say they were targets are nothing more than liars, right after having posted this?



So where is there a comparable number or group of visible and appreciated NON-progressive posters here on NeoGAF? You say there are no witch hunts. You never bother to mention the absolute chilling effect that has been in place on these forums, while unintentionally making this point directly by mentioning this "silent group coming up and starting to lay the foundation to normalize their views".

WHY ARE THEY "SILENT" EXACTLY? My god, I actually have to ask a basic logical question here. WHY ARE THEY SILENT? WTF HAVE THEY BEEN ALL OF THESE YEARS? Oh yeah, no witch hunts here. No one is being called a racist that didn't deserve to be called one, except, oh yeah, just earlier in this thread it is basically "any republican is a racist or supportive of racism or completely ignorant. try and debate this if possible". As if that kind of rampant sentiment was the exception, RATHER THAN THE DAILY EVER PRESENT NORM.

People are silent because there has been a clear chilling effect here on NeoGAF. You have lived in a protective bubble for progressive echo chamber group think. All a person needed to do is post an opinion that diverged from the largely leftist norms here and they were most likely to have at least 2-3 people immediately assume the worst motivations and possible intentions on their part. A person had to literally prove their innocence, which was rarely ever believed as a whole. You were outside the circle of progressive virtue. That you are trying to portray it as being otherwise, while completely stating the obvious nature of things unintentionally, is evidence of your own intellectual failings or refusal to listen to or acknowledge the clear statements by others as to THEIR OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCES.



You also denigrate and label opposition to you with words that "carry harmful weight". Your "progressive" ilk has been doing so for years, almost completely unopposed or criticized on this forum until the owner of this forum, who specifically accepted and promoted the labeling and attacks on those opposing your ilk, until he transgressed those very values he pretended to hold to, and your beloved progressives left in droves in response. But wait! Now "dissent" is apparently precious again. Now the fear is WHAT exactly? That other will impose their positions and beliefs like you and your ilk were largely absolutely ecstatic to do here??? Are you afraid that your progressive groupthink echo chamber is going to be exchanged for one that doesn't echo in your favor?? Save precious dissent as long as it benefits you and doesn't interfere with your crushing of it in favor of your favorite flavor of progressivism!

All because people finally feel emboldened enough to state their own experiences and opinions, for once. Because the progressive morass of moderators and fallen leader are not being vigilant to defend themselves or their desire for a forum devoid of opposing political/social viewpoints. So a forum vacuum of power of sorts exists, and suddenly, THERE IS MORE FREE SPEECH and no chilling effect, because really, who at this point cares if they are banned. At the least, people with viewpoints in opposition to yours get to say what they are thinking without the fear or sudden appearance of a heavy progressive boot to the throat.

Has anyone seriously suggested a mirror based exchange of one kind of toxic groupthink for another? No. You fear what you have enjoyed. I think most who have viewed this forum as being mostly toxic, which it has been for quite some time, would rather have a standard of CIVILITY and well reasoned debate/discussions. Instead of being literally accused of racism because someone might be a Republican, which just happened earlier in this very thread.

Oh no! Some random person on the Internet doesn't like me anymore! FYI, that happens in real life if you spew hateful stuff out loud.

Chilling effect? Oh come on. Plenty of folks didn't get banned for expressing divergent perspectives. You gotta do better than this. Not buying your rhetoric. :3

What you are presenting now is a circular argument. You say he was banned because he broke the rules and he broke the rules because he was banned. Thats all those "facts" you present say. This is actually extraordinary. The discussion is whether or not he was shitposting, and as proof, you are presenting me with "facts" that say and that say that you get banned for shitposting. Amazing.

The second part of your post is absolutely irrelevant, as others have pointed out, but sure, ill bite. I frequently seek out debates about influential people on the internet, both people i am in agreement with and those im not, especially when im not in the mood for reading longer essays or pieces, as it is more easily digested and you get a broad sense of the arguments. I do this both for people whom i agree with and disagree with, so right of the top of my head is a valid reason ask that question.

You actually seek out debates where people argue whether or not women are not negatively portrayed in the video game industry?

Interesting. I'm sure there's a lot of insight coming from the "it's totally fine" camp.

Come on, just admit it. You know a debate against Anita's points is stupid. Nothing insightful would come from it. The mods knew at the time and recognized the shit posting. It was an attempt to de-legitimize her. Ya not fooling anyone of worth.
 
Generally speaking of course. Not necessarily that.

But still, no one is perfect and I try not to associate one's acts with the community, but hey that's just me.

But his acts affect the community greatly as you can see. Let's say this blows over, lots of people leave but the forum continues on. What happens next time? Do you have confidence he'll handle it correctly or is it just going to be another dumpster fire like this? Even if I thought he was 100% innocent, I wouldn't trust him to run this site anymore. Especially after the new rules that have been put in place.
 
All the "evidence" or "damage" has come from Tyler's own posts.

Damage? of being accused of something he has said he is not guilty of?

What was he suppose t post?

Lets not talk shit for another 20 pages.

He defended himself with a post, and basically said this board is for the users and all the personal bullshit shouldn't be happening.

HIs post was the best he could have done to stop the bullshit.
 
How else are they going to have a link to share with other dumbasses on Twitter? Imagine being an adult who brags on social media about leaving a ridiculous final post on a video game forum. It must be the highlight of the week for some of these idiots.

Yeah who posts things on twitter that they did that day?
 
I feel there is a huge gap between no one is perfect and posting revenge porn of someone.
Not to mention this is a forum, the admin abusing his power like the last example definitely changes the community.

Is the abuse of power in the gaming side or the OT side (other than the GG issue and the latest ND issue)? I don't venture to the OT side much but all I know it was hell there. :P
 
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