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[rnlval]

Read carefully again. Project acoustics is an API (available on Unity since last year), notice the word 'leverage' here.



Leverage' means the custom audio hardware (probably some audio decompressor like on PS4) will help project Acoustics API, well it's probably going to decompress the audio before being processed by the CPU with the API.

AFAIK they never actually detailed what their 'custom audio hardware' exactly do.

Xbox Series X packs dedicated audio hardware acceleration

Microsoft dials audio up to 11 on the Xbox Series X with dedicated hardware-accelerated audio.

www.tweaktown.com

Microsoft explains: "Learn from the audio designers of Borderlands 3 and Gears of War 5 around how a collaboration between Microsoft, Dolby, and our middleware partners kicked off a revolution with spatial sound that turns any pair of headphones into a multi-dimensional gateway to another world. Attendees will dive deep into the audio design pipeline (Project Acoustics) and the relationship to dedicated hardware-acceleration on newer generation Xbox consoles".

Read again LOL.

 

[Mobilemofo]

It's all about Audio, except the PS5 won't play audio CDs and it's not designed for audiophile 5.1 surround setups, just headphones or Stereo TV speakers.

So it's all about audio for bad audio systems.

It's not a fuckin sound system. 3d audio for games.. Not for pumping out rebecca blacks friday on your sound bar..

 

[rnlval]

Read carefully again. Project acoustics is an API (available on Unity since last year), notice the word 'leverage' here.

Leverage' means the custom audio hardware (probably some audio decompressor like on PS4) will help project Acoustics API, well it's probably going to decompress the audio before being processed by the CPU with the API.

AFAIK they never actually detailed what their 'custom audio hardware' exactly do.

From https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7110...edicated-chip-and-ray-traced-audio/index.html

"With the introduction of hardware-accelerated ray tracing with the Xbox series X, we're actually able to enable a whole new set of scenarios, whether that's more realistic lighting, better reflections, we can even use it for things like spatial audio and have ray traced audio," Ronald said in a recent interview with Major Nelson.

XSX GPU has 52 CU (12.147 TFLOPS shaders) with RT cores (13 TFLOPS equivalent). XSX GPU has 13 TFLOPS equivalent for RT workload, hence 13 TFLOPS / 52 CU = 250 GFLOPS equivalent for CU RT cores and 233 GFLOPS per CU shaders.

PS5's CU DSP has 100 GFLOPS, LOL.


Read carefully again.

 

[marquimvfs]

People here are just using words like boost and throttle like they mean something for PS5. What people need to understand is that they were used in a context of trying to explain how the new approach works. But, in fact, by analysing Cerny words, the system will not "boost", it will just go below it's capabilities when they are not needed both to conserve energy and keep the thermals in a good measure, period. There's no throttling, ffs.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

This article just confirms what everybody already knew. The PS5 is a great system, the XSX is just better

That's not what I got after hearing Richard and John talk about in the video!

 

[marquimvfs]

That's not what I got after hearing Richard and John talk about in the video!

Well, I think it is a case of the XSX being a system with more raw power. The problem I see in this thread is several people trying to downplay the PS5, painting the system as a something weaker than it really is by saying it will throttle, or by calling it a "last minute overclocked thing".

 

[Hendrick's]

People here are just using words like boost and throttle like they mean something for PS5. What people need to understand is that they were used in a context of trying to explain how the new approach works. But, in fact, by analysing Cerny words, the system will not "boost", it will just go below it's capabilities when they are not needed both to conserve energy and keep the thermals in a good measure, period. There's no throttling, ffs.

Of course there is boost. This thing does have a base clock regardless of Sony trying obfuscate that number.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Well, I think it is a case of the XSX being a system with more raw power. The problem I see in this thread is several people trying to downplay the PS5, painting the system as a something weaker than it really is by saying it will throttle, or by calling it a "last minute overclocked thing".

people are driven to a point of delusion and thoroughly misinformed. No saving them, perhaps when they see the games in action on the PS5 they'd come to their senses.

 

[marquimvfs]

Of course there is boost. This thing does have a base clock regardless of Sony trying obfuscate that number.

And you say that based on what info?

 

[Hawking Radiation]

If you haven't, I really recommend rewatching the PS5 deep dive. They have introduced an algorithm into the chip that allows the PS5 to detect workloads and on the fly shift power back and forth between the GPU and CPU to compensate for whatever it going on in the game. When you combine that with the speed of the assets being streamed through the I/O from the SSD, situations that you are worried about are almost literally not going to happen. Cerny discussed this at length during the talk.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but to me (reading another members post on this page about the data streaming off the SSD) the PS5 is design is focused on moving data super fast around the system. The goal for Sony is not brute force power but speed and efficiency.
Speed and efficiency between GPU, CPU, Ram and the SSD.
This is my thoughts. I must admit I'm not technical at all but reading some comments here and on Era and the last few videos from digital Foundry and the Cerny presentation leads me to believe this is the case.
Am I correct in this?

 

[BattleScar]

From https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7110...edicated-chip-and-ray-traced-audio/index.html

"With the introduction of hardware-accelerated ray tracing with the Xbox series X, we're actually able to enable a whole new set of scenarios, whether that's more realistic lighting, better reflections, we can even use it for things like spatial audio and have ray traced audio," Ronald said in a recent interview with Major Nelson.

XSX GPU has 52 CU (12.147 TFLOPS shaders) with RT cores (13 TFLOPS equivalent). XSX GPU has 13 TFLOPS equivalent for RT workload, hence 13 TFLOPS / 52 CU = 250 GFLOPS equivalent for CU RT cores and 233 GFLOPS per CU shaders.

PS5's CU DSP has 100 GFLOPS, LOL.


Read carefully again.

That's not really how it works. The Tempest engine isn't a regular GPU compute unit, its not even remotely comparable. Its dedicated purely to audio processing.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

PS5 is using AVFS (Adaptive Voltage and Frequency Scaling) which allows for higher frequencies with lower voltage requirements. It also helps reduce variance between chips, increases lifetime and reliability, and can improve yields.

As far as having to down clock during certain high workloads, I think it is to mitigate voltage droops.

https://www.amd.com/system/files/documents/polaris-whitepaper.pdf

Do you think this gives Sony an advantage in pricing?
I mean can they price the console cheaper ?

 

[Hawking Radiation]

And you say that based on what info?

You sure you want to engage that user. Just look at his post history. That should give you an indication of what you're dealing with.

 

[quest]

And you say that based on what info?

That is the problem Sony is hiding the numbers and faqs like Microsoft was hiding the details of their horrible drm scheme in 2013. All we all can do is guess on how low it goes what loads cause issues besides avx256 which was a huge upgrade for zen2. Sony can easily clear this up with a white paper and charts but refuse like the old Microsoft leadership.

 

[mckmas8808]

I need to read this article then......If there is an article, why was this video butchered.....I hope there's information on the Geometry engine too and more on Tempest....

I wish someone from DF could explain this difference too.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but to me (reading another members post on this page about the data streaming off the SSD) the PS5 is design is focused on moving data super fast around the system. The goal for Sony is not brute force power but speed and efficiency.
Speed and efficiency between GPU, CPU, Ram and the SSD.
This is my thoughts. I must admit I'm not technical at all but reading some comments here and on Era and the last few videos from digital Foundry and the Cerny presentation leads me to believe this is the case.
Am I correct in this?

You are understanding things 100% correctly! It's not that MS is bad or that Sony screwed up. These 2 companies just choose to go about building a console in two different ways. They focus on different things. Currently, the PS5 is being down in a way that some can't understand, because the design philosophy is just so different compared to your typical PC and consoles of the past.

 

[rnlval]

That's not really how it works. The Tempest engine isn't a regular GPU compute unit, its not even remotely comparable. Its dedicated purely to audio processing.

PS5 DSP is based on AMD's CU IP with the local data store (LDS), dual wave channels, DMA read/write engine without graphics hardware.

RDNA 2 CU has dual wave channels with LDS, texture fetch read/write engine with graphics hardware e.g. texture mappers, RT cores, texture filters and 'etc'.

PS5 has an odd CU configuration since GPU needs 36 CU for PS4 Pro 36 CU BC mode.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Xbox Series X packs dedicated audio hardware acceleration

Microsoft dials audio up to 11 on the Xbox Series X with dedicated hardware-accelerated audio.

www.tweaktown.com

Microsoft explains: "Learn from the audio designers of Borderlands 3 and Gears of War 5 around how a collaboration between Microsoft, Dolby, and our middleware partners kicked off a revolution with spatial sound that turns any pair of headphones into a multi-dimensional gateway to another world. Attendees will dive deep into the audio design pipeline (Project Acoustics) and the relationship to dedicated hardware-acceleration on newer generation Xbox consoles".

Read again LOL.

And the relationship to

What does it even mean ? can they be more vague ?

The audio hardware is a distant cousin of their Project Acoutics ? LOL. The more I read those funny vague descriptions, and the more I am convinced most of their features are software based.

 

[Physiognomonics]

PS5 DSP is based on AMD's CU IP with the local data store (LDS), dual wave channels, DMA read/write engine without graphics hardware.

RDNA 2 CU has dual wave channels with LDS, texture fetch read/write engine with graphics hardware e.g. texture mappers, RT cores, texture filters and 'etc'.

PS5 has an odd CU configuration since GPU needs 36 CU for PS4 Pro 36 CU BC mode.

No the CU for audio isn't one of the 36CUs for graphics. It's an additionnal CU modified (without caches) for audio. It wouldn't be possible because of Pro BC to modify any of the 36 CUs for the audio.

PS5 has actually 37CUs. One is 100% dedicated to audio and 3D audio.

 

[rnlval]

No the CU for audio isn't one of the 36CUs for graphics. It's an additionnal CU modified (without caches) for audio. It wouldn't be possible because of Pro BC to modify any CU for the audio.

Note why I stated PS5 has an odd CU configuration since GPU needs 36 CU for PS4 Pro 36 CU BC mode.

36 CU is an even number.
37 CU is an odd number.

 

[Fake]

It isn't an appropriate comparison and a bit misleading to present without a disclaimer on the potential variables that make such comparison futile

• 5700 wasn't designed to clock that high
• Power starved at higher frequencies
• RDNA2 is supposed to clock higher
• The PS5 GPU architecture, silicon design and power delivery was designed around that high frequency which is far different from a PC gamer slapping an aftermarket cooler on a GPU and overclocking it

Not to mention the PS5 game dedicated low level acess API.

 

[rnlval]

What does it even mean ? can they be more vague ?

The audio hardware is a distant cousin of their Project Acoutics ? LOL. The more I read those funnly vague descriptions, and the more I am convinced most of their features are software based.

That's BS.

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7110...edicated-chip-and-ray-traced-audio/index.html

Ninja Theory in particular is enthusiastic about the chip. This is fitting given the Senua franchise's incredible sound effects and score. "It's extremely exciting. We're going to have a dedicated chip to work with audio, which means we finally won't have to fight with programmers and artists for memory and CPU power," senior sound designer Daniele Galante told Video Game Chronicle.
"We take for granted that graphics are powered by their own video cards. But in audio, we haven't had anything like that. Now we have some power dedicated to us," Ninja Theory's audio lead David Garcia also said.
....
"With the introduction of hardware accelerated ray tracing with the Xbox series X, we're actually able to enable a whole new set of scenarios, whether that's more realistic lighting, better reflections, we can even use it for things like spatial audio and have ray traced audio," Ronald said in a recent interview with Major Nelson.

Who are you to contradict the primary source?

 

[longdi]

No the CU for audio isn't one of the 36CUs for graphics. It's an additionnal CU modified (without caches) for audio. It wouldn't be possible because of Pro BC to modify any of the 36 CUs for the audio.

PS5 has actually 37CUs. One is 100% dedicated to audio and 3D audio.

It is more simple and logical to think that PS5 die has 40CU, like a typical Amd mid range part

Sony bought the lower end version with 36 fully functional CUs.

And they saw those disabled broken CU can be repurpose for audio.

Why would Sony pay to make a special 37CU part? Oh Please...

Mark Sony and his beautiful confusing words again.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

"With the introduction of hardware-accelerated ray tracing with the Xbox series X, we're actually able to enable a whole new set of scenarios, whether that's more realistic lighting, better reflections, we can even use it for things like spatial audio and have ray traced audio," Ronald said in a recent interview with Major Nelson.

Didn't some people slam Cerny for saying something like this? ... at least Sony has a dedicated core that was added to their system only for this.

So you have to sacrifice a CU on the sx to get spatial audio?

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Why would Sony pay to make a special 37CU part? Oh Please...

This is not exactly a CU, it has no cache, etc. can't be used for anything else... it's elsewhere in the system.

 

[Hendrick's]

And you say that based on what info?

Mark Cerny

 

[Deto]

Mark Cerny

the discord group has already decided to stop with "PS5 will catch on fire and explode" and return to "fake clock"?

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

From https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7110...edicated-chip-and-ray-traced-audio/index.html

"With the introduction of hardware-accelerated ray tracing with the Xbox series X, we're actually able to enable a whole new set of scenarios, whether that's more realistic lighting, better reflections, we can even use it for things like spatial audio and have ray traced audio," Ronald said in a recent interview with Major Nelson.

XSX GPU has 52 CU (12.147 TFLOPS shaders) with RT cores (13 TFLOPS equivalent). XSX GPU has 13 TFLOPS equivalent for RT workload, hence 13 TFLOPS / 52 CU = 250 GFLOPS equivalent for CU RT cores and 233 GFLOPS per CU shaders.

PS5's CU DSP has 100 GFLOPS, LOL.


Read carefully again.

Is that you MisterXMedia?

 

[Journey]

In the DF video didn't they get vastly diminishing returns on FPS as the clock went higher and higher ?

Yup, and only 4 compute units made a difference.... FOUR, while both pushing out the same TF number. Just imagine what 16CU would while also having a 20% extra teraflop advantage.

 

[Handy Fake]

Yup, and only 4 compute units made a difference.... FOUR, while both pushing out the same TF number. Just imagine what 16CU would while also having a 20% extra teraflop advantage.

But that's based on RDNA1.
We haven't seen RDNA2.

 

[thelastword]

People here are just using words like boost and throttle like they mean something for PS5. What people need to understand is that they were used in a context of trying to explain how the new approach works. But, in fact, by analysing Cerny words, the system will not "boost", it will just go below it's capabilities when they are not needed both to conserve energy and keep the thermals in a good measure, period. There's no throttling, ffs.

No matter how many times you explain it to them, not matter how many times you quote or link Cerny's actual words, they will counter with the same FUD...….These people are not arguing with good intentions, it's the very reason they also keep mentioning 9.2TF when Cerny said the console is 10.3TF.....They don't want the truth, the just want to FUD...….I do not see any PS fan misrepresenting the Series X's numbers, it's the state of affairs on GAF these days and yet XBOX fans always claim they are persecuted....

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

One thing I can't quite comprehend is why it seems like such a daunting task to cool Sony consoles. What is designed so differently that led to noisy Pro's vs. whisper quiet One X's? People can dislike the XsX tower design but it seems to have made cooling a breeze (pun intended).

It seems to be a point of emphasis on Cerny's PS5 talk like they had to really brainstorm to figure out how to cool the PS5. Curious to find out what their solution ended up being.

 

[ethomaz]

There is nothing efficient by having to overclocked and run at max clocks in a game profile.
PS5 APU will be forced to run above its weight.

Besides Nvidia slides indicate W(att) = power/workload. Same thing. Just not locked overclocked, there is no need for it in a real smart efficient design.

That is assumptions about PS5's running above it weight or overclock... there is no boost or game clock in PS5.
It is base clock limited by power budget... if remove the power budget the RDNA 2 can run all the time at these clocks.

Cerny did that to offer a cooling solution that better than what you saw on PS4... so it won't matter if you machine is the good or the bad lottery it will cool the same... different from PS4 where some are loud and others silent.

 

[Ascend]

Even Nvidia is clearer and more tranparent with this work around power shifting tech.

And people get mad at me when I say that the PS5 is being treated like a laptop....

That's similar to AMD Smartshift.

PS5 is different although it also incorporates the AMD technology.

PS5 will throttle based on workloads and not based on thermals. CPU and GPU will run at maximum frequency for normal workloads (which is 99% of the time). It will only throttle down by a few percent if the work load has reached its maximum for BOTH the CPU and GPU. If the workload has reached 100% utilization for the GPU only, it will not throttle because the CPU can shift its power budget.

It's like having the PS5 APU running at constant boost without having to revamp its power budget and cooling budget. There will be no worst case scenario that Sony has to account for because that 10 milliseconds of 100% utilization for both CPU and GPU (which is very rare) will be compensated by throttling the frequency back by a few percent.

This is a smart and efficient design. PS5 APU will be punching above its weight 99% of the time without Sony having to increase power and cooling budget.

Wow. Someone that understands how it actually works. Color me surprised, and kudos to you.

People here are just using words like boost and throttle like they mean something for PS5. What people need to understand is that they were used in a context of trying to explain how the new approach works. But, in fact, by analysing Cerny words, the system will not "boost", it will just go below it's capabilities when they are not needed both to conserve energy and keep the thermals in a good measure, period. There's no throttling, ffs.

I feel there should be this emoticon as an option too under the like/fire/thoughtful etc. Cerny said in his presentation that the PS5 system is running in constant boost.

 

[SportsFan581]

That is assumptions about PS5's running above it weight or overclock... there is no boost or game clock in PS5.
It is base clock limited by power budget... if remove the power budget the RDNA 2 can run all the time at these clocks.

Cerny did that to offer a cooling solution that better than what you saw on PS4... so it won't matter if you machine is the good or the bad lottery it will cool the same... different from PS4 where some are loud and others silent.

Some systems will still be hotter and/or louder than others. There is a natural variance in power consumption among chips, some will need to draw more power (creating more heat) to hit the frequencies required by the PSV specification. The PSV should have a very even acoustic profile, games created early and late in the gen will stress the system to the same thermal max. The XSX on the other hand will probably grow louder with age as devs start maximizing the APU as the generation progresses (raising power consumption and generating additional heat).

 

[SportsFan581]

And people get mad at me when I say that the PS5 is being treated like a laptop....

In a laptop this matters a lot more, in a desktop or console, just use a bigger power supply and/or cooling system.

 

[Sacred]

This thread is ridiculous, the whole point of the wordplay Cerny used was this: They can both achieve max clock speed until the power budget is hit, then one or both will have to be downclocked to allow heat dissipation and max draw limits.

So when a game is running a massive environment with a million different processes running in the background, the smartshift will determine which element needs the additional power draw.

 

[Jigga117]

Time stamped because he fucking says downclock for the worst games which translates to the most demanding games

 

[ethomaz]

Some systems will still be hotter and/or louder than others. There is a natural variance in power consumption among chips, some will need to draw more power (creating more heat) to hit the frequencies required by the PSV specification. The PSV should have a very even acoustic profile, games created early and late in the gen will stress the system to the same thermal max. The XSX on the other hand will probably grow louder with age as devs start maximizing the APU as the generation progresses (raising power consumption and generating additional heat).

That is the opposite of what Cerny said... all machines will have the same level of noise.

 

[ethomaz]

This thread is ridiculous, the whole point of the wordplay Cerny used was this: They can both achieve max clock speed until the power budget is hit, then one or both will have to be downclocked to allow heat dissipation and max draw limits.

So when a game is running a massive environment with a million different processes running in the background, the smartshift will determine which element needs the additional power draw.

Wrong it is not the SmartShift that decide.
It is the custom chip created by Sony to handle these things.
SmartShif is only there to make the unused power on CPU be used by the GPU.

 

[vpance]

One thing I can't quite comprehend is why it seems like such a daunting task to cool Sony consoles. What is designed so differently that led to noisy Pro's vs. whisper quiet One X's? People can dislike the XsX tower design but it seems to have made cooling a breeze (pun intended).

It seems to be a point of emphasis on Cerny's PS5 talk like they had to really brainstorm to figure out how to cool the PS5. Curious to find out what their solution ended up being.

One X went vapor chamber which was a huge leap beyond the traditional fan and heat sinks we saw in consoles at that point.

Depending on how efficient RDNA2 is, XSX gigantic tower design might actually be overkill in a similar way launch X1 was. It'll be interesting to see how the size and noise levels of the 2 stack up.

 

[ZywyPL]

In a laptop this matters a lot more, in a desktop or console, just use a bigger power supply and/or cooling system.

It does make me wonder why they bothered so much with power saving on a stationary device, Cerny in Eurogamer/DF article even said the devs will now have to design their games around... the power consumption:

Mark Cerny sees a time where developers will begin to optimise their game engines in a different way - to achieve optimal performance for the given power level. "Power plays a role when optimising. If you optimise and keep the power the same you see all of the benefit of the optimisation. If you optimise and increase the power then you're giving a bit of the performance back. What's most interesting here is optimisation for power consumption, if you can modify your code so that it has the same absolute performance but reduced power then that is a win. "

Now why on earth would devs need to do that for something that's plugged into the wall? This doesn't make any sense at all and looks like a mess. That "race to idle" paragraph is waaaaay more convincing and calming description of how the whole boost solution works, which still - why would anyone care for a device that will be plugged into the wall 24/7? He should've completely skip the conversation about that, the power saving would be there, whatever, no one would notice or care anyway, he should've just went out there, throw the numbers and call it a day. Unless the clocks aren't stable/constant/guaranteed and he wanted to play it safe, have a backup in case someone complains or even tries to sue him once the consoles are shipped. I see there is this whole FUD drama going on the internet, but if anyone is spreading FUD about PS5, it's Mark Cerny himself. Maybe he's a good designer, programmer, consultant etc., he has the hard skills to back up what he's doing for a living, but he seriously lacks soft skills like Jack Tretton or Kaz Hirai had, or Phil Spencer currently. He's not a good spokesman simply speaking, Sony should leave him in the lab and let others do the talking.

 

[Connxtion]

and yet the xone x version is still superior in resolution output:

• PS4P - 2880x1620, CB
• XOX - 2160p with reconstruction

doesn't matter if it's native or not, there is a reason why console can't do 8k cbr, because it's still fucking heavy on performance, it's not free just because it's cbr.
if you think that with resolution parity an inferior hardware can get better framerates i don't know what to say except lazy af devs not optimizing for the better hardware.

ps5 vs sex differences are gonna be far less because the difference is not that big, i give you that.

Same thing with COD MW 2019, the only thing that's the same between these two games, is Sony has the marketing deal. (Plays better on Playstation)

Worse performance on superior hardware, and both Activision/Capcom probably won't ever fix them. (Even DF don't know why COD doesn't scale in both axis on XB1X)

They may look into fixing it after launch,

Edit: spelling

 

[Sacred]

Wrong it is not the SmartShift that decide.
It is the custom chip created by Sony to handle these things.
SmartShif is only there to make the unused power on CPU be used by the GPU.

Nope sorry, that is exactly why smartshift was created to dictate the power draw..

 

[welsay01]

Wrong it is not the SmartShift that decide.
It is the custom chip created by Sony to handle these things.
SmartShif is only there to make the unused power on CPU be used by the GPU.

I don't think it's something totally custom or specific for Sony. It's AVFS (Adaptive Voltage and Frequency Scaling). AMD has been using it since Excavator in 2015 and continues to use it in Ryzen today.

 

[SonGoku]

nah, gta6 is gonna be full nextgen, that game is not come out before 2022-2023, rdr2 was in developing for 8-9 years with 1000+ people working on it (so almost nothing to spare for gta6 development) and gta6 is even more ambitious and bigger as a brand.
no chance that rockstar is gonna waste the new cpu\ssd stuff to develop for 10+ years old machine.

I hope you are right! what worries me is they might want a last job to profit from a 150m+ install base.
But as you said lets hope timing and logistics take crossgen out of the picture.

 

[ethomaz]

Nope sorry, that is exactly why smartshift was created to dictate the power draw..

Wrong... there is a custom unit for that.
SmartShift is only used if needed after the custom unit decides the GPU can use the non-used CPU power.

 

[ethomaz]

I don't think it's something totally custom or specific for Sony. It's AVFS (Adaptive Voltage and Frequency Scaling). AMD has been using it since Excavator in 2015 and continues to use it in Ryzen today.

There is a custom chip with the logic to decide the decrease in frequencies that is different from anything AMD did in the past or even today (there is no AMD CPU or GPU that does what PS5's APU does in terms of frequency management).
Said that the SmartShift is only asked when that unit decides the unused power of the CPU can be used by GPU.

Every AMD chip indeed has a Power Control Unit but Sony customized it to archive what they want.

People saying it is like AMD do in CPUs in the past 20 years or it is just SmartShift is just plain wrong... it is not like any of these... it only uses SmartShift after it decided what to do if needed.

We need to see how it works because there is no example in real world.

 

[Deeper Underground]

It does make me wonder why they bothered so much with power saving on a stationary device, Cerny in Eurogamer/DF article even said the devs will now have to design their games around... the power consumption:




Now why on earth would devs need to do that for something that's plugged into the wall? This doesn't make any sense at all and looks like a mess. That "race to idle" paragraph is waaaaay more convincing and calming description of how the whole boost solution works, which still - why would anyone care for a device that will be plugged into the wall 24/7? He should've completely skip the conversation about that, the power saving would be there, whatever, no one would notice or care anyway, he should've just went out there, throw the numbers and call it a day. Unless the clocks aren't stable/constant/guaranteed and he wanted to play it safe, have a backup in case someone complains or even tries to sue him once the consoles are shipped. I see there is this whole FUD drama going on the internet, but if anyone is spreading FUD about PS5, it's Mark Cerny himself. Maybe he's a good designer, programmer, consultant etc., he has the hard skills to back up what he's doing for a living, but he seriously lacks soft skills like Jack Tretton or Kaz Hirai had, or Phil Spencer currently. He's not a good spokesman simply speaking, Sony should leave him in the lab and let others do the talking.

He literally just explained why and you say He is spreading FUD? The Lead System Architect? Alllllright, off to the Ignore dumpster you go!

 

[marquimvfs]

It does make me wonder why they bothered so much with power saving on a stationary device, Cerny in Eurogamer/DF article even said the devs will now have to design their games around... the power consumption:




Now why on earth would devs need to do that for something that's plugged into the wall? This doesn't make any sense at all and looks like a mess. That "race to idle" paragraph is waaaaay more convincing and calming description of how the whole boost solution works, which still - why would anyone care for a device that will be plugged into the wall 24/7? He should've completely skip the conversation about that, the power saving would be there, whatever, no one would notice or care anyway, he should've just went out there, throw the numbers and call it a day. Unless the clocks aren't stable/constant/guaranteed and he wanted to play it safe, have a backup in case someone complains or even tries to sue him once the consoles are shipped. I see there is this whole FUD drama going on the internet, but if anyone is spreading FUD about PS5, it's Mark Cerny himself. Maybe he's a good designer, programmer, consultant etc., he has the hard skills to back up what he's doing for a living, but he seriously lacks soft skills like Jack Tretton or Kaz Hirai had, or Phil Spencer currently. He's not a good spokesman simply speaking, Sony should leave him in the lab and let others do the talking.

Without sarcasm, I think I understand what you're trying to say. But that's in fact a paradigm shift in efficiency, but being a technicality (and a hard to understand one) make it sound like Cerny is the only person excited about it. Remember when the Wii U power consumption where released and the system where more capable than the current gen at the time? Its the same right now. If the paradigm of optimization really changes, we could see in the future more things being done with less computational power! It will affect the portables even more! Think of Switch running the same games but with, maybe, 25% more battery autonomy... Wouldn't that be great?
Or, in a more spread example, your very smartphone could do the same but throttle less by running the same game you play today, and even save some battery! The possibilities are numerous, and great, just not something everyone will drop tears of joy about it.

 

[SonGoku]

Nope sorry, that is exactly why smartshift was created to dictate the power draw..

You are mixing things, theres a power control unit inside the SoC that regulates frequencies based on activity information (load) from CPU/GPU.
There's enough power that both CPU and GPU can potentially run at their limits of 3.5GHz and 2.23GHz simultaneously while under high utilization most of the time.

Smartshift comes into play during frames or scenes where GPU CUs are near full utilization and CPU isn't using all of its power budget and developers want a sustained 10.27TF.
In this scenario where the CPU isn't using all of its power budget there are two possibilities:

1. CPU runs at 3.5Ghz but isn't processing a particularly power hungry instruction or its cores aren't close to full load.
2. CPU cores are at (or close to) full load alternating on the fly between 3.2GHz and 3.5GHz

Cerny & Richard described it

If the CPU doesn't use its power budget - for example, if it is capped at 3.5GHz - then the unused portion of the budget goes to the GPU. That's what AMD calls SmartShift

Several developers speaking to Digital Foundry have stated that their current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core. It makes perfect sense as most game engines right now are architected with the low performance Jaguar in mind - even a doubling of throughput (ie 60fps vs 30fps) would hardly tax PS5's Zen 2 cores.

As the generation progresses into midgen we'll see devs relying on smarshift only when available and drop GPU to 10TF during CPU & GPU intensive scenes