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[JareBear: Remastered]

I can’t vote excited or not because I don’t know enough details. I need to see/hear exactly how they intend the console to function first.

So I guess my vote is “I’m excited to learn more first.”

I’m all aboard for the XsX but I imagine there is a market for whatever the Lockhart is meant to accomplish

 

[Leonidas]

Can't wait for the reveal

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

So for the price of a Switch:
- 1080P box (most people here say it), like the Switch home
- is not both mobile and a home console
- bad controler
- does not play Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Smash, Mario Kart.


Good luck with that.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Meh.. don't do it MS.

 

[Genx3]

At this point with MS offering Xbox All Access I really don't see the point in Lock Hart.
A $36 a month payment for 24 months including GPU is a good deal and you get the full blown XSX HW.

 

[GHG]

MS, just cancel Lockhart. It's redundant. There's no genuine purpose for it. XSX and Xcloud are enough. If people want to get in on next-gen cheaply, literally just let them use Xcloud streaming on their One X/XBO or Samsung phone.

Just focus on XSX and price it right, because the more I hear about Lockhart (especially in light of the already great Xcloud and Gamepass services), the more I dislike it. The whole thing is feeling like a stopgap and a constant road bump to a smooth next-gen with XSX, Xcloud and Gamepass.

Hearing it could have critical next-gen features cut back just makes it sound even worst. Put that Lockhart production budget towards XSX, more software development or securing 3rd-party deals (or even a VR/AR headset). All of those would be better use of that Lockhart money, IMHO.

Agree with all of this. Nothing more to be said really.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

At this point, why even bother? It's more powerful than a doorstop, but not quite as capable as a raspberry pi.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I'll say the same here: I can't see how Lockhart can keep most of the new stuff like SSD, RT, Zen 2 etc while coming in at $299 retail. Bloomberg have the SSD BOM alone at $150 (grossly overestimated IMO but still) and XSX BOM estimate of $450-$500?

Either XSX and PS5 BOMs are being grossly overestimated or Lockhart will be more expensive or much weaker.

 

[Genx3]

bad controler

Bad controller?
No that's why everyone copies the Xbox controller design.
Outdated controller? Yea

 

[pr0cs]

Don't believe it at all, they can just keep producing oneX if they want a cheap machine to fill the gap.
Sounds more like someone wanting clicks than a legitimate story

 

[Leonidas]

So for the price of a Switch:
- 1080P box (most people here say it), like the Switch home
- is not both mobile and a home console
- bad controler
- does not play Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Smash, Mario Kart.

Good luck with that.

That sounds like PS4...

But Lockhart is way more powerful and has an SSD (if rumor is correct).

 

[Neo_game]

Yes, sadly this is happening. Not good for next gen IMHO.

I think this is going to be Microsoft main console. I wonder if this console start getting the lead in sales. Sony might also consider with their own version of a gimped console ? In few years time with slim version there was anyway going to be price drop and potential chance of Pro version for those who need it. But now that would be crazy thing to do.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Lockhart isn’t the answer to a recession, this shit has been on the cards for years now. It’s part of their pricing strategy and focus on subscription services.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Don't believe it at all, they can just keep producing oneX if they want a cheap machine to fill the gap.
Sounds more like someone wanting clicks than a legitimate story

Windows Central is basically MS magazine, why should they lie about this?

Xbox has basically said that after the Cyberpunk LE they will stop producing Xbox One X....

 

[GHG]

That sounds like PS4...

If Sony repackaged the PS4 Pro with a new CPU and an SSD and said it's going on sale later this year as a "next gen" console what would your reaction be?

 

[Dr.D00p]

A third of the power and you genuinely think that the only difference will be a drop in resolution?

If its only going to be 1080p/1440p or a 4K Checkerboard resolution machine then yes, a drop in resolution is all it will mean.

A 4Tflop RDNA2 GPU will offer at least the same perfromance as the 6Tflop One X GPU...combined with the far superior Zen 2 CPU, more RAM & faster storage, its specs are all they need to be at the price.

 

[longdi]

Yes! Either cancel lockhart or delay another year and let it tap unto xCloud powers.
There is no real reason for it now.
Sony is unable to make a $399 PS5, and unable to have any engineering perf/$ breakthrough.
Series X is more than enough to compete.

 

[SportsFan581]

Hearing it could have critical next-gen features cut back just makes it sound even worst. Put that Lockhart production budget towards XSX, more software development or securing 3rd-party deals (or even a VR/AR headset). All of those would be better use of that Lockhart money, IMHO.

Sounds like a bit of an overreaction when we don't know what features are cut just yet. Are these OS features (quick resume) and QoL features like the robust streaming engine included with XSX or are these features related to the games themselves, only time will tell.

 

[Leonidas]

If Sony repackaged the PS4 Pro with a new CPU and an SSD and said it's going on sale later this year as a "next gen" console what would your reaction be?

If they updated all those things then it's basically a next-gen machine.

 

[Flintty]

So for the price of a Switch:
- 1080P box (most people here say it), like the Switch home
- is not both mobile and a home console
- bad controler
- does not play Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Smash, Mario Kart.


Good luck with that.

Lol. You’re comparing LH to a Switch, just because it allegedly has a similar price, but also only comparing what you think are the negatives, and leaving out any positives? Ok then.

Bad controller

 

[GHG]

If its only going to be 1080p/1440p or a 4K Checkerboard resolution machine then yes, a drop in resolution is all it will mean.

A 4Tflop RDNA2 GPU will offer at least the same perfromance as the 6Tflop One X GPU...combined with the far superior Zen 2 CPU, more RAM & faster storage, its specs are all they need to be at the price.

So you take out everything else in my post which explains why that wont be the case and then answer the question.

As you will.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[GHG]

It would be a disaster, luckily Lockhart has a more powerful, more modern GPU along with an SSD and a CPU that destroy's PS4's Jaguar cores.

You've literally just described the PS4 Pro with a new CPU and an SSD.

Congratulations.

 

[Hendrick's]

Everybody loses!

But seriously, why are folks glossing over the reduced RT hardware? Yeah devs can “turn it off” for games developed around current gen hardware, but what do you get when you turn off RT on Minecraft RTX?

Regular Minecraft.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

I thought TF didn't matter

I like this comment because you can both sides the shit out of it. Xbox fanboys swinging around their tf cocks thinking it's automatically going to make a better machine. Playstation fanboys with the objectively weaker machine but screaming it doesn't matter because of the software. Very good comment indeed.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Lockhart isn’t the answer to a recession, this shit has been on the cards for years now. It’s part of their pricing strategy and focus on subscription services.

So will it support this through streaming or an emphasis of running on local hardware? Because if it's being built mainly for Xcloud streaming and at 4K60, that's the one way I can see it having some purpose. But, do you actually need 4 TF for that? I dunno, maybe?

If they focus on Lockhart as just a streaming device for Xcloud and can price it at $199 ($299 would be too much), maybe it can serve a purpose that way. But otherwise I don't see the point, personally.

EDIT: Also, if it's for streaming-only, they wouldn't even need the same CPU, probably wouldn't need the SSD (or could get away with a much smaller and cheaper one), and would only need a very little amount of RAM. But that's the only way I can see it working successfully and not be a drag on XSX.

 

[SonGoku]

lockart needs to match xsx at 1080p, otherwise it will be a mess
CPU same as XSX
SSD 500GB 2.4GB/s
GPU 4TF (1080p)
RAM 192bit 12GB GDDR6 @ 336GB/s - 11GB available for games (less OS features)

 

[SportsFan581]

You see a lot of the Switch comments in regards to ports and scaling games. People need to realize that lack of memory and memory bandwidth are a big part of why Switch ports look the way they do. An 8GB switch with even 70-80GB/s bandwidth would do well even with the current GPU.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Why do people in this thread think a $300 console with a 4TF GPU makes sense for xCloud streaming?

lol

That would be a really stupid product to put out. You can stream easily on a $100 box with a decent hardware video decoder.

Also STREAMING is a crapshoot.. you can't sell someone a $300 machine with the hopes and dreams they'll have internet capable of streaming games, or even want to play that way in the first place.

 

[Dr.D00p]

So you take out everything else in my post which explains why that wont be the case and then answer the question.

As you will.

..You're taking this all far too seriously.

 

[Leonidas]

You've literally just described the PS4 Pro with a new CPU and an SSD.

Congratulations.

And you literrally just described a next-gen console, congrats. New CPU + SSD + RDNA2 GPU.

 

[GHG]

And you literrally just described a next-gen console, congrats. New CPU + SSD + RDNA2 GPU.

So a substantial increase in GPU power is not necessary? When you upgrade your PC do you keep your 6 year old GPU hanging around when you upgrade the Motherboard/RAM/CPU/SSD or do you put it out of it's misery?

..You're taking this all far too seriously.

Oh you're taking the piss? Thank god.

 

[Genx3]

You've literally just described the PS4 Pro with a new CPU and an SSD.

Congratulations.

Pro does not have RDNA2 Architecture, SSD and a CPU 4X the Jaguars in current gen.
Pro also aims for 4K resolutions.
Lock Hart will aim for 1080P resolutions with next gen tech such as HW RT, SSD for loading and streaming, Improved CPU for better Physics and AI.

I understand where you're coming from as I personally rather MS do not launch Lock Hart but LH will be way better than XB1X or Pro as long as you're ok with 1080P resolutions.

 

[sircaw]

Wow, so many people hate lockhart.

As a Sony fan, I am not one of them.

I am 100% in favour of getting a ps5 this generation and will be looking to get that day one. However, If Microsoft can offer me a cheap system, to play Grim dawn, Ori fable and halo i am all in on it.
If those games are 60 fps at 1080 i will be extremely happy.

My main system will with out a doubt be Ps5, they will just have superior games, but Ms will have some very decent offerings this time round, i really would like to get both with out having to break the bank.

 

[sonomamashine]

My god man. Never change, please.

ALT account exposed ? what do you know about him NEO Member.

 

[icerock]

For selfish reasons alone I wish this console was nixed so devs didn't have to cater to lower spec consoles when they are designing their games. But, this was perhaps always in the pipeline when MS made the decision to integrate PC and Xbox players in the same family. Devs would have to decide upon a baseline not solely based upon consoles but PCs too. I guess Lockhart would be equivalent of a minimum spec requirement PC. I'm still hoping that they haven't gimped the CPU and SSD too badly.

Everybody loses!

But seriously, why are folks glossing over the reduced RT hardware? Yeah devs can “turn it off” for games developed around current gen hardware, but what do you get when you turn off RT on Minecraft RTX?

Unless some games aren’t compatible with Lockhart, the. this is going to severely limit the scope of RT next gen.

Smart business move and consumer friendly, but it’s disappointing to me that we likely won’t get a huge investment in RT next gen (or at least games built around path tracing).

My expectations for RT are bare-minimum for 12 and 10TF consoles anyway, so it was always barmy when people spoke about a 4TF console possessing RT capabilities. RT in next-gen is just a start of what games could be in a decades time, we are quite far away from leveraging its benefits fully. The term 'RT" will look nice to read on the box of Lockhart, but don't expect it to translate in real game world.

Great to see how Sony fans are so concerned about xbox now.

I think with the corona crisis and the how the economy will look like in a few months the series S is actually a pretty smart idea.

Lockhart won't sell in isolation in a post-COVID-19 economy, its success/failure is solely dependent on price tag of competitors machine. A $499 PS5 makes Lockhart an attractive proposition at $249-299. A $399 PS5 though? This thing will have its leg cut off before launch.

It's too early to speculate of how this thing will sell when we don't fully know its spec plus launch price of next-gen consoles.

MS, just cancel Lockhart. It's redundant. There's no genuine purpose for it. XSX and Xcloud are enough. If people want to get in on next-gen cheaply, literally just let them use Xcloud streaming on their One X/XBO or Samsung phone.

Just focus on XSX and price it right, because the more I hear about Lockhart (especially in light of the already great Xcloud and Gamepass services), the more I dislike it. The whole thing is feeling like a stopgap and a constant road bump to a smooth next-gen with XSX, Xcloud and Gamepass.

Hearing it could have critical next-gen features cut back just makes it sound even worst. Put that Lockhart production budget towards XSX, more software development or securing 3rd-party deals (or even a VR/AR headset). All of those would be better use of that Lockhart money, IMHO.

The fact this project was nixed and revived a number of times means they (and devs) weren't sure about it. I don't think xCloud is fully ready for the masses, laws of physics are always going to be a problem when it comes to game streaming. I'm sure MS weighed this decision when deciding to build a lower-spec machine.

But that's the thing; GPU isn't just for graphics. Asynchronous compute will be a massive thing for next gen, arguably more than the SSDs IMHO, and while non-graphical features of games are very scalable these days, there's a point to where you scale down so much it becomes a completely different gaming experience.

Thank you! But, you are talking to audience which mostly comprises of people thinking GPU is just there to push resolution. I mean I've had debate with someone who thought Killzone SF could've 'easily' been a PS3 game, just reduce the 'fancy effects' and 'resolution'. Same with Infamous:SS.

Just my opinion, but the whole thing with Lockhart feels very 32X-ish. A potential long-term anchor solution for a short-term problem (recession and casuals not able or willing to jump in @$450/$500). It just feels redundant now thanks to stuff like Xcloud streaming.

Maybe the ONLY way I could see Lockhart being justified is IF it's a streaming device, perhaps they could get it to $199. In that case, I can see it being of some value and not have any big impacts on XSX. But you don't need 4TF for a streaming device IMO....not even for 4K60 I would assume.

I'm interested to know the full specs of the machine, if MS are aiming for a $249-299 price tag then they will eat hefty losses. Although, I suspect many folks would think a 4TF console is 1/3rd of power than Series X, hence price would be that much cheaper too lol.

 

[Leonidas]

So a substantial increase in GPU power is not necessary?

Absolutely not when it's targetting a lower res.

When you upgrade your PC do you keep your 6 year old GPU hanging around when you upgrade the Motherboard/RAM/CPU/SSD or do you put it out of it's misery?

This isn't the same GCN GPU from 2013. This isn't the same enhanced GCN GPU from 2016/2017.

If I was gaming at a lower resolution I'd have no problem switching out my GPU for one that is much weaker, but I would never buy a 6+ year old architecture GPU.

 

[DeepEnigma]

ALT account exposed ? what do you know about him NEO Member.

People do lurk before getting account approvals or making them.

 

[GHG]

ALT account exposed ? what do you know about him NEO Member.

To be fair it only takes a minute.

 

[sendit]

This is Phil Spencer’s plan to win next gen.

 

[Agnostic2020]

You see a lot of the Switch comments in regards to ports and scaling games. People need to realize that lack of memory and memory bandwidth are a big part of why Switch ports look the way they do. An 8GB switch with even 70-80GB/s bandwidth would do well even with the current GPU.

True as long as it has same cou and ssd it will be fine. Game designs will be impacted but not game graphics .

Game graphics scales with correct decisins in weaker hardware but game design doesnt really scale that well with weaker hardware. Gpu does more than resolution but it is what it is

 

[SportsFan581]

Why do people in this thread think a $300 console with a 4TF GPU makes sense for xCloud streaming?

lol

That would be a really stupid product to put out. You can stream easily on a $100 box with a decent hardware video decoder.

Also STREAMING is a crapshoot.. you can't sell someone a $300 machine with the hopes and dreams they'll have internet capable of streaming games, or even want to play that way in the first place.

Agreed that would be a bigger fail than the 1080p console, IMO. A dedicated streaming device would need to be (and should be) cheaper, say $99. Xcloud is designed to work on phones and PCs with integrated graphics, I can't see where you would need 4TF. You can do 4k streaming on a lot less (just maybe include a capable heatsink/cooling system so you don't have the heat issues the chromecast has). Unless there is a performance penalty to game streaming that is not present in typical video streaming (very well could be the case and simply something I am completely unaware of).

 

[GHG]

Pro does not have RDNA2 Architecture, SSD and a CPU 4X the Jaguars in current gen.
Pro also aims for 4K resolutions.
Lock Hart will aim for 1080P resolutions with next gen tech such as HW RT, SSD for loading and streaming, Improved CPU for better Physics and AI.

I understand where you're coming from as I personally rather MS do not launch Lock Hart but LH will be way better than XB1X or Pro as long as you're ok with 1080P resolutions.

Absolutely not when it's targetting a lower res, can't wait till this thing is revealed so this can be put to rest.

This isn't the same GCN GPU from 2013. This isn't the same enhanced GCN GPU from 2016/2017.

If I was gaming at a lower resolution I'd have no problem switching out my GPU for one that is much weaker, but I would never buy a 6+ year old architecture GPU.

If I see people complaining that we are playing the same games next gen but with a coating of ray-tracing and faster loading times then don't say I didn't tell you so.

The biggest issue comes in when games have to be designed around this thing. GPU power is not purely used for resolution.

 

[Genx3]

Gpu does more than resolution but it is what it is

Its true that's why Lockhart is rumored to be 4TF's which is 33% of 12TF's yet shooting for 25% of the resolution.
That should leave the overhead for other things like GPGPU features and ML.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Sounds like a bit of an overreaction when we don't know what features are cut just yet. Are these OS features (quick resume) and QoL features like the robust streaming engine included with XSX or are these features related to the games themselves, only time will tell.

I hear you, and I don't want to fearmonger regarding Lockhart, but I'm just having trouble thinking it isn't redundant in the face of Xcloud support for smartphone devices. And cutting out OS features like Quick Resume won't necessarily bring down the BOM on a 4TF Lockhart intended for games to run locally on the system.

So maybe I can clarify: IF Lockhart is a streaming-focused device, it won't need 16 GB RAM, or even 8 GB. 4 GB would be plenty. And they probably wouldn't need an SSD (or just a really cheap and possibly slower one). At $199, I think THAT could work.

However, IF Lockhart is intended for running games locally, it's going to need the same internal SSD as XSX, it's probably going to need 12 GB of RAM (how do they even replicate the XSX's bus setup with 12 GB? Or do they go with a narrower bus?) , same CPU, most of the same OS features, and it'd probably be priced around at least $299 ($350 could be possible). But I don't see the BOM pricing near, say, $300 in that situation, it would still be something around $350 or so for the BOM so MS would be selling potentially two systems at a loss instead of just one?

Like you said, we'll be finding out soon but while I personally hope Lockhart's not a thing, if it is, it'll be a streaming-only device that can hit a very low BOM and come in at $199. Otherwise, it's not gonna go over well.

Thank you! But, you are talking to audience which mostly comprises of people thinking GPU is just there to push resolution. I mean I've had debate with someone who thought Killzone SF could've 'easily' been a PS3 game, just reduce the 'fancy effects' and 'resolution'. Same with Infamous:SS.

I'm interested to know the full specs of the machine, if MS are aiming for a $249-299 price tag then they will eat hefty losses. Although, I suspect many folks would think a 4TF console is 1/3rd of power than Series X, hence price would be that much cheaper too lol.

That's crazy to think people even considered that . Say what you want about ShadowFall as a FPS in terms of gameplay or whatever, but there were a lot of things going on there aside visuals that would've been impossible to do on PS3 without completely changing the gaming experience.

About specs, well if it's real they'll have no choice but to go into it at one of these two planned events (if the rumors are true about the events, and they seem strongly plausible to happen). Personally I want even *lower* specs because that would at least mean it's just for streaming purposes. Which, it's true Xcloud still has to be refined, and it'll never be perfect, but if people want to pay less for next-gen they have to accept certain compromises, just part of the game.

 

[Leonidas]

If I see people complaining that we are playing the same games next gen but with a coating of ray-tracing and faster loading times then don't say I didn't tell you so.

Series X has that problem too, pretty sure MS said all games would work across all devices for however many years...

 

[Fun Fanboy]

I thought TF didn't matter

L O L. Got em.

 

[Thirty7ven]

So will it support this through streaming or an emphasis of running on local hardware? Because if it's being built mainly for Xcloud streaming and at 4K60, that's the one way I can see it having some purpose. But, do you actually need 4 TF for that? I dunno, maybe?

If they focus on Lockhart as just a streaming device for Xcloud and can price it at $199 ($299 would be too much), maybe it can serve a purpose that way. But otherwise I don't see the point, personally.

EDIT: Also, if it's for streaming-only, they wouldn't even need the same CPU, probably wouldn't need the SSD (or could get away with a much smaller and cheaper one), and would only need a very little amount of RAM. But that's the only way I can see it working successfully and not be a drag on XSX.

Subscriptions =/= streaming. That’s just one type. Xbox Live and Gamepass are the main ones, Xcloud’s emphasis is mobile.

Just looking at Xbox Game Studios, I see the emphasis on 4k60fps meaning 1080p for Lockhart, frame rate pending. If the CPU and SSD are the same then the RAM and its bandwidth will be scaled down to achieve the 1080p target too.

There’s no reason to worry. GPU related ops are the easiest to scale.

 

[GHG]

Series X has that problem too, pretty sure MS said all games would work across all devices for however many years...

I know it does, which is why I've always been against that idea.

Overall it has a massive impact on the games we see arriving on the PC, especially their 1st party games.

 

[baphomet]

Don't believe it at all, they can just keep producing oneX if they want a cheap machine to fill the gap.
Sounds more like someone wanting clicks than a legitimate story

One X will always be a last gen machine.

Why the fuck would they want to keep it on the shelves?

A $299 Lockhart will do things a $299 One X couldn't ever imagine doing.