HeisenbergFX4
Member
Oh another "cycle" is 100% coming, with multiple skus again even
Jeff Grubb postulates on Xbox's next gen plans. Steam, Epic...Playstation!?
Killer8
Member
This is their future but I don't think it's as far-fetched as it sounds.
They need to a) continue converting their Xbox GP subs into PC GP subs and b) while doing that, try to please the last holdouts of the Xbox faithful who have built up a digital library / attachment to the brand. It's basically a transitional period to, as you say, offering hybrid hardware at a premium for those who still really want it.
Hardware manufacturing costs have been an albatross around Microsoft's neck for a while. According to Phil they lose about $100 on every Series X sold and $200 on every Series S, and I don't believe they were ever able to get this amount lowered. Selling premium PC hardware at break even / for profit in order to eliminate that existing cost burden would probably make earning less elsewhere in the business easier to stomach (so long as their Game Pass subs don't collapse in the process).
Speaking of Live, they already converted their Gold subscribers into Game Pass Core a while ago, so on their numbers sheets I don't think they make a distinction any more between people paying for online versus not - it's all Game Pass numbers now and as long as they maintain that or see growth, shareholders will stay happy.
Microsoft's position is already that of a true third party. All their games are coming to PS5, PC and Switch 2. Forza is already there. Gears in August. Halo is on Unreal Engine to make multiplatform development easier. It's done - "no red lines".
They are also effectively printing money now by owning Call of Duty. I think the old paradigm of Xbox versus PlayStation is as good as dead and I would not be surprised to see a limited version of Game Pass worm its way onto PlayStation like Ubisoft+ or EA Play - because MS are now just any other third party like them, who happens to sell some PC boxes.
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SmurfMustard
Member
The Times They Are A-Changin'
This will be fun to watch.
This will be fun to watch.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
This is like devs appealing to the "Modern Audience."
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
At a console price? Not happening.
More powerful and capable than a console? I think that ship has sailed.
So either priced like a niche device or a Apple TV like box.
Both scenarios equal Xbox leaving the home console race.
Fess
Member
They want to launch a PC in a console shell with a big picture mode and Xbox legacy emulators and access to all third party stores.
Reasons, Grubb is speculating that they might be doing all this as a longterm move to show court market regulators that the closed gardens needs to open up. Similar to Epic vs Apple. Then they can get Microsoft Store everywhere and sell COD without a 30% cut.
lmao
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Nahh, trying to make a PC not feel so PC like for people who work all day long on PCs and don't want to come home and then game on said PC
Oh I have said all along it would not be console priced if they do it
It wont be cheap
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
I'm not sure about this; they are printing as much money as they are spending to make CoD happen every year.
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
their stocks will fall, a certain someone will guarantee it.
Wherever you comment, friends, express the greatest pessimism and skepticism possible because bad things are coming with such ideia.
Wherever you comment, friends, express the greatest pessimism and skepticism possible because bad things are coming with such ideia.
Killjoy-NL
Member
PS3 was free as well.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
thats even worse.
CrimsonTide
Member
Yeah, but was just listing those that came prior or at the same time as the OG Xbox
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Maybe to you but I know several who would move from Xbox consoles that work on a PC every single day of their lives to a machine like this simply because they do not want to also game on a PC
Many people here have echoed this as well when this topic has been talked about before
There is a market out there just who knows how big it is
None of us that's for sure
Post in thread 'Capcom Fact Book 2024 (FY3/24 data), Software Shipments: PS4/5: 3.08M units, Switch: 1.21M units, Xbox: 0.21M units' https://www.neogaf.com/threads/capc...units-xbox-0-21m-units.1677455/post-269811486
LordCBH
Member
Microsoft changing how they operate because they suck ass at operating the Xbox business should in no way force everyone else to change with them. That would be fucking retarded.
Durin
Member
It all rests on them being able to make their storefront actually good to use, because right now it's very barebones. It's a pain for discoverability beyond showing the most recent things added or coming soon for Game Pass, updates will often enough break or I gotta redo the extensions for EA and Ubisoft games, the social features suck, mod support can be a pain and their sales suck UI-wise to show all or let me sort to find the things I'd want to even buy.
Even the library sorting just kinda sucks so I use UWP Hook to add shortcuts to Steam because that's better. Then they gotta figure out how to de-bloat Windows and get a suspend state/sleep function working properly. Nothing indicates they're moving to improve things at the pace I see SteamOS and other Linux distros getting better every few months.
Even the library sorting just kinda sucks so I use UWP Hook to add shortcuts to Steam because that's better. Then they gotta figure out how to de-bloat Windows and get a suspend state/sleep function working properly. Nothing indicates they're moving to improve things at the pace I see SteamOS and other Linux distros getting better every few months.
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
Any word on ditching the name 'Xbox'?
They need to brand new.
They need to brand new.
Killer8
Member
Do you have numbers to show this?
Call of Duty costs a lot to make now, something like $700 million per game, but it's consistently the best selling game year on year and they make billions on it. It only took ten days for Modern Warfare II to pass $1 billion in revenue and they typically sell 30-40 million copies according to court documents.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
I think this is a much larger challenge than you might think. Look at the Steam Deck as an example. It's the premier PC handheld and its barely sold 3 million units. The Vita was a complete failure and even it sold over 15 million units.
The Xbox Series has sold ~30 million units. Presumably half of that on XSX... Their ceiling on a premium priced hybrid hardware is probably 5-10 million units and that's probably being generous.
It can't be for break even pricing. If you cant rely on software sales royalties, you have to rely on selling the hardware at a premium. Look up Alienware pricing and there is way more competition among PC hardware manufacturers.
I think you missed my point here. I'm saying these people who pay for GamePass Core just to play online, will not pay for it on a PC when ever other option is free. As soon as Xbox Series stops getting game support, GamePass subscription rates will crumble. Hell once Xbox One stops getting games like CoD and EA FC, you're looking at decreased subscriber rates.
They won't be a true 3rd party until there is no longer hardware.
They aren't printing money. They spent 70 billion to get CoD. If ABK diminishes in value because CoD diminishes in value, all the previous CoD sales under Microsoft won't mean anything. That's why I think they made a bundle deal with PlayStation, to keep the franchise as relevant as possible especially in the face of a new Battlefield that poses significant risk to Microsoft/ABK. The game will almost certainly have a deep marketing campaign with Sony.
It'll take a lot for Sony to allow Microsoft's GamePass onto PlayStation. Not just that they would never allow 3rd party publishing, but Sony isn't going to want to incentivize Microsoft to keep buying publishers. You'll note Ubisoft Plus Premium and EA Play Pro are not available on PS5. Only catalog titles can be added to subscription models.
Astray
Member
Containment of Steam and potential leveraging of its existence into getting regulators to open up the other ecosystems for them.
twilo99
Member
The democratic way of gaming.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Is there a large market for this (More than 20 million)?
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Not many.
Will be a super nice amount.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
There could be a large market for "A one-stop console that can play all Xbox, PC, and Playstation games".
All depends on what the specs are, how they market it, if they are able to price it aggressively, and if they can actually make it as convenient as a console.
Crayon
Member
This whole thing.... Best case we get a sort of reference box for a stationary integrated gaming pc and those get some traction then start shipping with steamos.
If they really try to put any effort into a gaming mode for windows and they decide to market it against steamos, I am somewhat looking forward to the fireworks and enduing ass-stuffing ms will get as they galvanize pc players with their gaslighting social bullshit.
If they really try to put any effort into a gaming mode for windows and they decide to market it against steamos, I am somewhat looking forward to the fireworks and enduing ass-stuffing ms will get as they galvanize pc players with their gaslighting social bullshit.
Haven't watched the video but how exactly would this work?:
"Xbox would try to make up for lost revenue by hosting other stores (Epic, Steam...even Playstation and IOS could if they wanted to)"
I'm no rocket scientist but that to me seems like even more revenue loss.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
If they can even hang on for that long. Sega's been on the brink a few times and they never had the overhead Xbox already has and will wind up with when they're finally done taking a hacksaw to their own ecosystem. Legitimately can see them shutting down or selling almost everything that isn't Minecraft and Candy Crush when all is said and done.
No, they aren't. They effectively burned themselves by slapping COD on Gamepass, enough that they're going to charge 80 dollars going forward. COD is huge in terms of player engagement, but not perceived high enough in quality for it to be coming from the same place as the Mario Kart price bump. It's not happening because they're comfortable and confident that they can sell for 80 bucks and still sell 30 million copies; it's because they have to make up lost cash. And it still won't be enough.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
If this is the case, how come Valve hasn't made a new Steam Machine to do this exact same thing yet?
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
PC handhelds have been said to have sold 6 million since the launch of the Steamdeck (4 million), Google AI just spat out the number of gaming laptops to be 17 million. (I don't know what time span google used)
Thats over 20 million right there.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Its where a multiple sku approach comes in again, so they hope
Topher
Identifies as young
GHG
Member
If the app resides on the windows store then Microsoft can take a ~12% cut from all transactions that take place through that app.
So for example if valve were to put a steam app on there (and Sony a "PlayStation" app for the PC games they publish) then all games sold though them would be subject to the 12% cut.
Personally I think it's far more likely that instead of making people pay for online gaming, they simply force people to pay for gamepass by putting all Xbox BC games in the "retro classics" category.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
But you are assuming every gaming laptop owner and Steamdeck owner will buy this new Xbox hardware. That seems silly to believe right?
ChorizoPicozo
Member
what im taking about is for all the money CoD generates, MS needs to spend a shit ton of money too on it. this is not Minecraft situation.
i think ABK was reporting around 1.5 / 2.7 Billion in profit before the MS acquisition. asking to ChatGPT/Grok to estimate CoD contribution:
it sound about right
RetroGamingUK
Member
That seems somewhat inevitable at this point.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
I don't think it's a me thing. But I'm sure we are talking about a very small market anyway.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Maybe but that is also why they will have other options for next gen
ChorizoPicozo
Member
so you are talking about two different things:
1. Windows "gaming friendly"
2. a traditional Xbox (closed system)
?
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Also, let's examine the idea that Microsoft taking down their walled garden will push regulators to allow Microsoft's store on PlayStation.
I don't think so. Regulators purposefully didn't look at this when they were looking at Android and iOS in Europe. As long as Sony allows physical media to be played, there are other avenues for stores to compete, which will probably suffice. Unlike with iOS, you can't simply go to a physical store and get an app. It's digital only.
There's also the factor that PlayStations aren't sold at a large profit like iPhones. Sony will argue and likely win on the basis that it would destroy their business and their platform. There's also enough competition from Switch and PC that suggests this isn't a monopoly or even a duopoly.
There's also a slippery slope here. Do all platforms have to open themselves up to competitors?
I think people look at what was going on with iOS in Europe, but they don't look at the details of the case.
You have to have a Gatekeeper designation, which Sony isn't going to get if you can pick up games in retail. It's also a much smaller market and a non-essential market. There are so many key differences between Apple and Sony, but gaming journalism doesn't care to investigate these differences. We need better gaming journalism.
I don't think so. Regulators purposefully didn't look at this when they were looking at Android and iOS in Europe. As long as Sony allows physical media to be played, there are other avenues for stores to compete, which will probably suffice. Unlike with iOS, you can't simply go to a physical store and get an app. It's digital only.
There's also the factor that PlayStations aren't sold at a large profit like iPhones. Sony will argue and likely win on the basis that it would destroy their business and their platform. There's also enough competition from Switch and PC that suggests this isn't a monopoly or even a duopoly.
There's also a slippery slope here. Do all platforms have to open themselves up to competitors?
I think people look at what was going on with iOS in Europe, but they don't look at the details of the case.
You have to have a Gatekeeper designation, which Sony isn't going to get if you can pick up games in retail. It's also a much smaller market and a non-essential market. There are so many key differences between Apple and Sony, but gaming journalism doesn't care to investigate these differences. We need better gaming journalism.
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bender
What time is it?
It's just difficult to imagine the benefit for Microsoft or the consumer here. Without getting a cut of all software and a high probability of a subscription service, Microsoft wouldn't be able to subsidize the hardware. And if you are a consumer, you'd have little incentive to buy something off of Steam and if the hardware is expensive, why limit your options? Trying to walk that line just seems like it is combining the worst aspects of both worlds, but considering this is Microsoft, the rumors are probably true.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
This. Quite amusing the absurdity of some reactions.
GHG
Member
Under the current cut structure they would still get 88% for any game sold via their app, so it would more be a case of "why not".
The bigger question to ask is why would Xbox open themselves up to a scenario where they stand to lose so much more, and could end up seeing absolutely no revenue for purchased/owned games if people simply purchase and redeem Steam keys from 3rd party sites.
Skifi28
Member
Or perhaps the complexity of a PC coupled with the limitations of a console, it remains to be seen I suppose. It could go either way.
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
Basically Game updates taking longer. Why does the Xbox app version of games differ from the Steam Deck version? I've never understood this.
Just copy and paste the damn game between stores.
ExtendEmbraceExtinguish
Member
I 100% agree with op posting. Software company is going full software. Hardware = oem; fully eventually.
Deregulated so all parties get full amount and will lead to the end of the "middleman" in this industry.
Deregulated so all parties get full amount and will lead to the end of the "middleman" in this industry.