Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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rntongo said:
Valid points but it's highly likely it wasn't using the decomp block. There's been no demo confirmed using the decomp block. Most likely CPU was used to compress and decompress from SSD.
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Of course it isn't. I didn't even mention decompression in my post.
 
alabtrosMyster said:
The point of the PS5 SSD tech is to lessen RAM "wastage", Cerny claims it's the equivalent of having 2 to 3 times more memory, MS claims theirs is equivalent of having twice as much memory after Eve is taken into consideration, we have our answer right there.

I suspect that most of the difference is because going from 9GB/sec down to 4.8 yields diminishing returns (not all data can be swapped in and out at all time.

I just hope those drives have HUGE Total bytes written totals (or red)... Because they will read a megaton or data.
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Both machines are going to give developers the option to use RAM in the same way, i.e load data into RAM only when it's needed.

This is from Jason Ronald:
" there are entire classes of assets you don't even need to load into memory until just before you need them"

I'm interested to see how the two systems categorize what data is needed instantly and what is not. The PS5 has a major advantage in terms of throughput and with SFS(not making an equivalence here), the XSX can more efficiently stream heavy data like textures more efficiently.

But yes I also see diminishing returns.
 
sircaw said:
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I think there are diminishing returns to how good a game can look. If the next rachet and clank game looks like the last but would rather focus on things like bigger/more complex map/world/ship/boss battles design. i will be a happy bunny.

I play alot of indie and retro games, don't get me wrong looks are important, i love the way Horizon zero dawn looks and the new one i am sure is going to blow my mind. It just there comes a point, when their can be to much eye candy.

I personally think 30 fps just for the sake of selling better looking visuals would be a huge mistake. If they went that route i can understand why they do, but i just don't see it.
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Ask the normal person not any of this forum we are talking about how a console works or game is made so we
are not normal kind of user. If they prefer 60 fps and 30 fps or better graphics, even when is true 60 fps feels better
a game running to 30 fps.

Will be easier to sold since the normal user buy a game because they like but their first
impression comes with commercial where the only we the graphics.

Looks like Nintendo for example many of its games run to 60 fps but many of the same also 30 fps and this doesn't affects the sales or critics just see
in their first year The legend of Zelda Breath of Wild and Mario Odyssey is okay to say we prefer 60 fps but this will never will affect my decision to buy a
first party game in any console.

Because also yes this consoles are much more powerful and balanced but in four years the high end pc will be so again far of the console I mean is normal
so your games console will be enough to reach a similar graphics running to 60 fps.

I personally do not share the drastic opinion of some of wanting everything running at 60 fps with RT 4k and wil graphics similar to some tech demo or else it will
not be worth it.

A high framerate help you gameplay to feel better but it is far from being something that I take as the main point of buying a game or not and I have a pc with
its monitor at 144 Hz and cannot be considered a mistake if the companies sold millions of copies of game probably the only game in console which runs to 60 fps
and sold a huge quantity are the CoD,MK8 and EA sports games and this sold this quantity for others reasons not because your uncle go Best Buy and ask if the
game is running to 60 fps,

I reiterate my position you will see more games running at 60 fps because now they have a decent CPU and an SSD but I do not see it as something that works as a
standard in the end these are consoles that should exists for many years.
 
Metroiddarks said:
Ask the normal person not any of this forum we are talking about how a console works or game is made so we
are not normal kind of user. If they prefer 60 fps and 30 fps or better graphics, even when is true 60 fps feels better
a game running to 30 fps.

Will be easier to sold since the normal user buy a game because they like but their first
impression comes with commercial where the only we the graphics.

Looks like Nintendo for example many of its games run to 60 fps but many of the same also 30 fps and this doesn't affects the sales or critics just see
in their first year The legend of Zelda Breath of Wild and Mario Odyssey is okay to say we prefer 60 fps but this will never will affect my decision to buy a
first party game in any console.

Because also yes this consoles are much more powerful and balanced but in four years the high end pc will be so again far of the console I mean is normal
so your games console will be enough to reach a similar graphics running to 60 fps.

I personally do not share the drastic opinion of some of wanting everything running at 60 fps with RT 4k and wil graphics similar to some tech demo or else it will
not be worth it.

A high framerate help you gameplay to feel better but it is far from being something that I take as the main point of buying a game or not and I have a pc with
its monitor at 144 Hz and cannot be considered a mistake if the companies sold millions of copies of game probably the only game in console which runs to 60 fps
and sold a huge quantity are the CoD,MK8 and EA sports games and this sold this quantity for others reasons not because your uncle go Best Buy and ask if the
game is running to 60 fps,

I reiterate my position you will see more games running at 60 fps because now they have a decent CPU and an SSD but I do not see it as something that works as a
standard in the end these are consoles that should exists for many years.
Click to expand...

The thing is a huge chunk of gamers have never experienced 144hz gaming so no the majority of the people don't care about it.

Give you 2 examples.

My adult son 30+ years old had never played anything above 60 fps until about 2 years ago when I bought my first 144hz monitor.

The first time he played Fortnite on my PC he kept laughing saying it wasnt even fair how fast and fluid things were for him.

He since had to have a nice PC and a 144hz monitor and hopes like hell, like me, most upcoming games will have a high frame rate option.

Second my then 13 year old nephew who plays on a base PS4 was visiting so i let him try my set up.

The kid was literally an unstoppable god in Fortnite.

He has visited many times over the last 2 years and I always lose my PC to him.

Now at 15ish he keeps saying he never knew.
 
Metroiddarks said:
Ask the normal person not any of this forum we are talking about how a console works or game is made so we
are not normal kind of user. If they prefer 60 fps and 30 fps or better graphics, even when is true 60 fps feels better
a game running to 30 fps.

Will be easier to sold since the normal user buy a game because they like but their first
impression comes with commercial where the only we the graphics.

Looks like Nintendo for example many of its games run to 60 fps but many of the same also 30 fps and this doesn't affects the sales or critics just see
in their first year The legend of Zelda Breath of Wild and Mario Odyssey is okay to say we prefer 60 fps but this will never will affect my decision to buy a
first party game in any console.

Because also yes this consoles are much more powerful and balanced but in four years the high end pc will be so again far of the console I mean is normal
so your games console will be enough to reach a similar graphics running to 60 fps.

I personally do not share the drastic opinion of some of wanting everything running at 60 fps with RT 4k and wil graphics similar to some tech demo or else it will
not be worth it.

A high framerate help you gameplay to feel better but it is far from being something that I take as the main point of buying a game or not and I have a pc with
its monitor at 144 Hz and cannot be considered a mistake if the companies sold millions of copies of game probably the only game in console which runs to 60 fps
and sold a huge quantity are the CoD,MK8 and EA sports games and this sold this quantity for others reasons not because your uncle go Best Buy and ask if the
game is running to 60 fps,

I reiterate my position you will see more games running at 60 fps because now they have a decent CPU and an SSD but I do not see it as something that works as a
standard in the end these are consoles that should exists for many years.
Click to expand...

I get what your saying, and i do agree with alot your saying. In the end i think these companies need to find a way to sell their products. They need to be able to distinguish or say what the benefits or differences we will get next generation.

The point ofc is to get us to want to buy or upgrade into their ecosystem. Buying a system that just show the same things i.e 30 fps is not a good selling technique.

This current generation seems to have a lot of locked 30 fps games, 60 fps is just the natural evolution of the tech i think.

If we are lucky enough to have a ps6 and and xbox sex 1 360 box edition(who the fuck knows what they will call it) next generation i imagine the focus will switch to 120 fps and 8k and again we will be having this discussions.
 
Kazekage1981 said:
I dont want to be in the hype train anymore for neither sony or msft. Im so taaaaiirdd of dis chaaild' No more tickets for me.


BkvEhcB.gif
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I prefer be hype for Xbox,Play,Nintendo and some studios because I prefer to believe will great and fail than realize I was
an embittered for something I love.

Philosophy taken from a fortune cookie that I read the other day :lollipop_kissing:
 
HeisenbergFX4 said:
The thing is a huge chunk of gamers have never experienced 144hz gaming so no the majority of the people don't care about it.

Give you 2 examples.

My adult son 30+ years old had never played anything above 60 fps until about 2 years ago when I bought my first 144hz monitor.

The first time he played Fortnite on my PC he kept laughing saying it wasnt even fair how fast and fluid things were for him.

He since had to have a nice PC and a 144hz monitor and hopes like hell, like me, most upcoming games will have a high frame rate option.

Second my then 13 year old nephew who plays on a base PS4 was visiting so i let him try my set up.

The kid was literally an unstoppable god in Fortnite.

He has visited many times over the last 2 years and I always lose my PC to him.

Now at 15ish he keeps saying he never knew.
Click to expand...
And probably many of them never experience we cannot have a big market and in the same time all them be hardcore users when they
bough monitor instead to tv displays which usually go a maximum of 60 Hz.

I think most of here we are agree we want the game as far as possible have two options:

1) Fidelity: max detail running to at least 30 fps
2)Framerate: 60 fps using the AI reconstruction techniques

I really I couldn't care less the 4k I prefer graphic quality and framerate above that.
 
DaGamez said:
Metroiddarks Metroiddarks , I feel like "XBOX The Series X" would be the next name, in order to avoid confusion.
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I don't know what was thinking Xbox when decide to use tha kind of name, is hard to say to a common person than exists all this versions of Xbox
and each is different only this holiday:

-Xbox one S
-Xbox one X
-Xbox Series X
-Xbox Series S (probably)

Nintendo did to same mistake with the Wii U and they learn is better to have a name easy to be remember but well this came from the company
which use this names Windows Me->XP->Vista->7-> 8->10.
 
Metroiddarks said:
I don't know what was thinking Xbox when decide to use tha kind of name, is hard to say to a common person than exists all this versions of Xbox
and each is different only this holiday:

-Xbox one S
-Xbox one X
-Xbox Series X
-Xbox Series S (probably)

Nintendo did to same mistake with the Wii U and they learn is better to have a name easy to be remember but well this came from the company
which use this names Windows Me->XP->Vista->7-> 8->10.
Click to expand...

:messenger_tears_of_joy:

I do expect that X1X will no longer exist on store shelves by launch day. They've been shipping so few S models to retailers lately, it wouldn't surprise me if that one is also out of production (or nearly) at this point as well. We'll have to see what models are still around at launch.
 
whoever81 said:
IGN: "You May Need to Lower Your Expectations For Next-Gen Graphics"

Oh give me a break. I am not lowering anything. Maybe my wallet for quite a while. With those specs and those developers?
Our expectations should be actually fully raised and with neon signs flashing in red 24/7: "High Alert! Balls melting graphics incoming! (soonish...)"
IGN may need to lower the quantity of clickbait titles. That was mainly Xbox damage control/filler.
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I lower my expectations when I need to deal with IGN "journalism."
 
Dee_Dee said:
Lmfaoooo!!!!! He reeled that in hella fast. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
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Hopefully there are being coy with us and its a FULL TWO HOUR GAMEPLAY montage of HALO, Fable, Cyberpunk, Assassins creed that is coming on Tuesday night.

BUT i refuse to get HYPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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geordiemp said:
I read reason is is the signals are quite complex, and I also read on B3D someone mentioned maybe MS were trying to solve the complex timing of RAM access, there are 4 simulateous signals per clock.


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Considering the 10GB still uses the whole 320-bit interface, I'm assuming it's not a problem. MS actually already said it's not a problem and that because 16GB is cheaper in the DF article.

FeiRR said:
About game switching: we see that it takes about 6 seconds to switch between games on XSX. What happens when you switch a game is probably the following: the whole used memory is dumped into a special partition of the SSD and another game state is loaded from a different instance. We don't know if there's a difference between read and write speeds of that SSD they're using, let's simplify for now that there isn't. It then takes about 3 seconds to transfer the whole memory pool of Xbox One (those are BC games, remember) to and from SSD.

My question is: how big can X1 games be in memory? If we divide this size by 3, we might get a very, very rough estimate of average SSD speed (sustained R/W).
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First, you don't dump the whole game to the SSD (compress + copy) first and then dump the new game from the SSD to memory (decompress + copy) but as the old game gets removed from memory the new game is written to the newly freed areas in memory at the same time. So I'm assuming the whole process is bound by the writing + compressing speed considering these consoles are probably optimized for reading and decompression.

Regarding the X, games have 9GB available so XSX games should take 50% longer to swap (assuming all games take advantage of the whole 9GB on X1X and 13.5GB on XSX 100% of the time, which they don't).
 
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DaGamez said:
:messenger_tears_of_joy:

I do expect that X1X will no longer exist on store shelves by launch day. They've been shipping so few S models to retailers lately, it wouldn't surprise me if that one is also out of production (or nearly) at this point as well. We'll have to see what models are still around at launch.
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I expect you have right if not just imagine a mom or dad want to buy the new console for its boy/girl in medium of the black friday and
they only see a wall with many consoles name Xbox <something> and you ask which console run the new Halo and the person of for example
Target tell you whatever works, that my friend will not end well.

 
Uzupedro said:
A lot of good remakes came out this gen. Really looking forward to what the devs will be able to do in the next-gen when it comes to remake a game.
https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/e...-retro-remakes-on-ps4-essential-buyers-guide/
Click to expand...

I'm more excited to see how BC works, hopefully so that remakes aren't as needed. With XOX MS had OG and 360 games with boosted resolution, improved AF, more stable framerates, Improved LODs, Better shadows, HDR, and Higher res textures. Can you imagine if the next gen consoles can manage this for the current gen? We could see games like AC Unity at 4k with a locked 30, Problem games like Just cause 3, or even grail games like Bloodborne running smoothly and in high res. If they nail BC, we could basically see entire Gens get remasters all at once
 
Barakov said:
It better be. The current dashboard is a nightmare. All versions of the metro UI need to die in a fire.
Click to expand...

what? Really? It's super fast right now.
And you can even filter games on number of players, local coop, online coop etc! Filter based on genre etc.
i love it. And it's so damn fast now
 



It's a wonderful interview overall, and it's wonderful what Unreal Engine is doing for us, I hope we skip the shitty 2D and 8-bit crap, I would rather play an indie game developed in Dreams (a PS4 game) than most of the indie games flooding the store.

Still with many NDA's, the answers don't give everything away.
 
DrKeo said:
Take a step back and think how the PS4/PS5 would link its' CPU and GPU to memory with the 256-bit interface or how the XSX would have done the same with 20GB (or 10GB) using a 320-bit interface. Now change nothing but replace x4 2GB modules with 1GB modules. You are over-analyzing a pretty simple case which was predicted long before MS told us their memory has split speed. For instance, here is me, talking about it in December 2019.
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So you'd rather talk GitHub than officially released AMD, Xbox and Playstation info that aligns to make better speculations?

It just looks like you didn't read , or didn't want to read what I actually wrote, and don't want to address the topics I raised because it doesn't support your assertion, and it inevitably leads to a scenario where XsX and PS5 diverge in how everything interconnects, and diverge in how many memory controllers each has for CPU and GPU(and whether they can be 'ganged' together), and most importantly, implies that the PS5 is closer to AMD's future (US) government winning Exoscale unit technology than their current Zen2 Infinity fabric tech - which I believe is in the XsX because of its odd bus widths setup.

You keep saying XsX's solution was about cost, but that doesn't match the XsS and XsX pincer affront on a PS5 by price and performance. They can literal price an XsX as high as they like if it is genuinely more performant than the PS5 by 20% and the niche gamer it is aimed at would still buy it. A couple of gigabytes of GDDR6 aren't a bank breaker (IMHO). The reality is that if they had a unified 560GB/s they would need 5 memory controller units in the Zen2 and another 5 in the GPU, and there is no way they have the area (and probably not enough layers) in their chip to do that.

Why not go back read what I wrote and engage with the points I made? From your GitHub data, does it explicitly state how many memory controller units are in each of the APUs - for XsX and PS5 ? If the XsX has a total of 8 MCUs then in all likelihood the XsX is unified as you claim.
 
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Can be a Crash game, Ratchet or maybe Sonic? Some mascot next gen game. Trying to figure out that 'fun' part. I can see a new Ratchet and Clank game.
 
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~Fake said:
Can be a Crash game, Ratchet or maybe Sonic? Some mascot next gen game. Trying to figure out that 'fun' part. I can see a new Ratchet and Clank game.
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This totally makes sense since it's been very long since the other Insomiac studio released the last R&C. But I don't see Sony acknowledging that their rat/dog/whatever franchise is minor and doesn't deserve to be in the full reveal.
 
PaintTinJr said:
So you'd rather talk GitHub than officially released AMD, Xbox and Playstation info that aligns to make better speculations?

It just looks like you didn't read , or didn't want to read what I actually wrote, and don't want to address the topics I raised because it doesn't support your assertion and inevitably leads to a scenario where XsX and PS5 diverge in how everything interconnects, and diverge in how many memory controllers each has for CPU and GPU(and whether they can be 'ganged' together, and most importantly, implies that the PS5 is closer to AMD's future (Us) government winning Exoscale unit technology than their current Zen2 Infinity fabric tech - which I believe is in the XsX because of its odd bus widths setup.

You keep saying XsX's solution was about cost, but that doesn't match the XsS and XsX pincer affront on a PS5 by price and performance. They can literal price an XsX as high as they like if it is genuinely more performant than the PS5 by 20% and the niche gamer it is aimed at would still but it. A couple of gigabytes of GDDR6 aren't a bank breaker (IMHO). The reality is that if they had a unified 560GB/s they would need 5 memory controller units in the Zen2 and another 5 in the GPU, and there is no way they have the area (and probably not enough layers) in their chip to do that.

Why not go back read what I wrote and engage with the points I made? From your GitHub data does it explicitly state how many memory controller units are in each of the APUs for XsX and PS5 ? If the XsX has a total of 8 MCUs then it all likelihood the XsX is unified as you claimed.
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What does Github have anything to do with it? The split memory speed didn't appear on the Github leak.

Your posts are full of false assumptions, like the XSX and PS5 having the same die size, which leads you to a wild goose chase around irrelevant things and solving things that don't need solving. The rumors are actually the other way around, that the XSX die is much bigger than the PS5. Actually, the original rumor about the XSX and PS5 from the chines bulleting board was that XSX is 360mm^2 and the PS5 is 300mm^2. There is no way in hell MS has the same die size, they have 40% more CUs and extra 64-bit worth of memory controllers in the APU.

I read your posts, but instead of commenting about irrelevant things, I tried to get you back to basics and make you use Occam's razor. Would the XSX work just like any other unified memory console ever, or will it have a freak of nature setup you are suggesting causing them big performance problems? Which one makes more sense? Why even have a big pool of GDDR6 if the CPU and GPU stay separate instead of going with a much cheaper split pool? There is zero sense in the setup you are suggesting.

Yes, both the CPU and GPU will use a full 320-bit interface, both will have access to 100% of the memory pool. I'm willing to place any bet on that.
 
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Radical_3d said:
This totally makes sense since it's been very long since the other Insomiac studio released the last R&C. But I don't see Sony acknowledging that their rat/dog/whatever franchise is minor and doesn't deserve to be in the full reveal.
Click to expand...

Well, SEGA logo was on seX gameplay reveal, so can be a possibility.
 
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