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[Neo Blaster]

something some of you deny hard is ps5 advantage is not what compression data make it like to be (one compress huge part of the data better even if we don't have the detail of how much in practice (outisde 70-75% reference))
i did a quick math with 50% advantage on textures
and MS will keep up up to 6gb/s. if the advantage is 70-75% they can probably keep up to nearly 7gb/s
in the end the advantage will probably be ~3gb/s for ps5 so ~50% (still god like vs awesome like they said)
but the advantage will not be over 150%.

also MS advantage with this method is also smaller game sinstalled on the disk (1/5 less seems about right).

If you want to talk about theoretical speeds, then let's do it right, it's 6 vs 22. Average compressed is 4.8 vs 9.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Your numbers are funny and made me laugh. No offense, I like using that GIF I apologise for my rudeness.

Anyway, most people still dont get it so another go ....

What about a 24 GBs SSD LQD 4500 , that will smoke ps5 right ? .. Latency, abstration layers in Dx12 all say hello.

Tim sweeny again having some fun :

Thanks, Tim, that ending made my day, I was desperately needing that.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Which makes Sony's solution even more useless for multiplatform Games.
For developing multiplatform Games devs always use the lowest common denominator

No way they would optimize their games based on a single platform SSD/IO. This is just nonsense.
For multiplatform Games we will only see improvements in loading times. That's it.

This is PS3 Cell all Over again.

The only similarity I see is that Xbox will have again released two different boxes(XOX & XSX, previously XB amd XB360) closer together to try and displace a market dominant box that released years earlier (the PS4, previously PS2).

Despite the negative connotation you place on the Cell, imagine how that generation would have ended up had PS3 released at the same time as the 360 coming off the back of the industry making all 3rd party games specifically for PS2 (mostly using RenderWare)and throwing PC ports at the Gamecube and xbox as an after thought.

Publishers and Epic/Unity do very well out of PlayStation. If the PS5 has the look of a fast selling 100m unit console and needs games that showcase unique technology to blow gamers socks off to raise game sales. It isn't beyond the realms of possibility that publishers will fully align to PS5 and lump XsX in with PC while they wait for PC I/O hardware to surpass PS5.

Xbox's focus on gamepass across all three Xboxes may make it even easier for publishers to outsource XsX ports, or deliver them later to market and concentrate on PS5.

 

[martino]

If you want to talk about theoretical speeds, then let's do it right, it's 6 vs 22. Average compressed is 4.8 vs 9.

it's not about max theoretical speed it's about compression ratio not the same for the 2 solutions.
but Cerny didn't used those words so they probably don't exist for most of you.

 

[geordiemp]

Thanks, Tim, that ending made my day, I was desperately needing that.

I enjoyed it as well, so much.

 

[Kusarigama]

Your numbers are funny and made me laugh. No offense, I like using that GIF I apologise for my rudeness.

Anyway, most people still dont get it so another go ....

What about a 24 GBs SSD LQD 4500 , that will smoke ps5 right ? .. Latency, abstration layers in Dx12 all say hello.

Tim sweeny again having some fun :

I don't quite understand everything Tim Sweeney is saying but I still think he is owning that guy

 

[thelastword]

Your numbers are funny and made me laugh. No offense, I like using that GIF I apologise for my rudeness.

Anyway, most people still dont get it so another go ....

What about a 24 GBs SSD LQD 4500 , that will smoke ps5 right ? .. Latency, abstration layers in Dx12 all say hello.

Tim sweeny again having some fun :

Man, Tim Sweeney is laying some pipe. You would think Logo Renard would have had enough by now. I'm thinking Logo's walls should be on fire ATM....

 

[geordiemp]

I don't quite understand everything Tim Sweeney is saying but I still think he is owning that guy

Yes he is owning, he is saying its not about the horse power of a car if its got crap suspension, gear box and tyres on a rally course.

Also he mentions abstraction, a sly dig at DX12 as guess what uses lots of abstraction ? His analogy of a milkshake through a fire hose is hurting my sides.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

something some of you deny hard is ps5 advantage is not what compression data make it like to be (one compress huge part of the data better even if we don't have the detail of how much in practice (outisde 70-75% reference))
i did a quick math with 50% advantage on textures
and MS will keep up up to 6gb/s. if the advantage is 70-75% they can probably keep up to nearly 7gb/s
in the end the advantage will probably be ~3gb/s for ps5 so ~50% (still god like vs awesome like they said)
but the advantage will not be over 150%.

also MS advantage with this method is also smaller game sinstalled on the disk (1/5 less seems about right).

Xbox Series X will average 4.8GB/s in realistic data transfer of typical game data.
Its best case unrealistic scenario where it's only streaming an exceptionally compressible texture file will be somewhat higher, and I've seen 6 GB/s mentioned typically.
The elements that make up their streaming architecture (2.4GB/s SSD, BCPack decompression block, Sampler Feedback for Streaming filters, DirectStorage) aren't arbitrarily added onto those numbers. They result in those numbers when real world performance is measured.

PS5 will average 8-9GB/s in realistic data transfer of typical game data.
Its best case unrealistic scenario where it's only streaming an exceptionally compressible file will be higher at 22 GB/s.
The elements that make up their streaming architecture (5.5GB/s SSD, 6-LoP 12-Ch controller, Kraken decompression block, DMAC, IO coprocessor, memory mapping coprocessor, SRAM, Coherency Engine, GPU cache scrubbers, ID based storage API) aren't arbitrarily added onto those numbers. They result in those numbers when real world performance is measured.

 

[Neo Blaster]

it's not about max theoretical speed it's about compression ratio not the same for the 2 solutions.
but Cerny didn't used those words so they probably don't exist for most of you.

Compression ratio will save you space on disk, but what we are talking about here is decompression speed+raw SSD speed, once again it's 4.8 vs 9 average and 6 vs 22 theoretical.

 

[Insane Metal]

It just occurred that the PS5 is CPU Crazy, this can't be cheap.

1. The Actual CPU


2. I/O Throughput


3. Cell 2.0/Tempest

I/O + Tempest are not in the CPU. Those are separate parts.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Your numbers are funny and made me laugh. No offense, I like using that GIF I apologise for my rudeness.

Anyway, most people still dont get it so another go ....

What about a 24 GBs SSD LQD 4500 , that will smoke ps5 right ? .. Latency, abstration layers in Dx12 all say hello.

Tim sweeny again having some fun :

Don't understand why he even bothers with random twitter users that say dumb things.

 

[SSfox]

It's funny that by putting PlayStation there made it Xbox's most liked tweet ever!

IKR

But at the same time it's a good thing here, especially if it can heal some people and make them realize it's retard and nonsense to hate somebody else just because you don't share the same skin color.

 

[geordiemp]

Xbox Series X will average 4.8GB/s in realistic data transfer of typical game data.
Its best case unrealistic scenario where it's only streaming an exceptionally compressible texture file will be somewhat higher, and I've seen 6 GB/s mentioned typically.
The elements that make up their streaming architecture (2.4GB/s SSD, BCPack decompression block, Sampler Feedback for Streaming filters, DirectStorage) aren't arbitrarily added onto those numbers. They result in those numbers when real world performance is measured.

PS5 will average 8-9GB/s in realistic data transfer of typical game data.
Its best case unrealistic scenario where it's only streaming an exceptionally compressible texture file will be higher at 22 GB/s.
The elements that make up their streaming architecture (5.5GB/s SSD, 6-LoP 12-Ch controller, Kraken decompression block, DMAC, IO coprocessor, memory mapping coprocessor, SRAM, Coherency Engine, GPU cache scrubbers, ID based storage API) aren't arbitrarily added onto those numbers. They result in those numbers when real world performance is measured.

Its more than that, its the latency and REAL world performance as Tim sweeny referred to with driver abstraction layers (DX12) and slow reactions / bottlenecks.

Why do you think we see state of decay 2 loading in 10 seconds for a 5 GB RAM game, and resuming in 6 seconds on XSX (the resume will be using all the XSX hardware and tricks and has been written for fast resume).

I think MS with that 100 GB comment are trying to change the file system for streaming, I just dont think they are ready yet (otherwise they would of shown it last month is logical)

 

[Thirty7ven]

something some of you deny hard is ps5 advantage is not what compression data make it like to be (one compress huge part of the data better even if we don't have the detail of how much in practice (outisde 70-75% reference))
i did a quick math with 50% advantage on textures
and MS will keep up up to 6gb/s. if the advantage is 70-75% they can probably keep up to nearly 7gb/s
in the end the advantage will probably be ~3gb/s for ps5 so ~50% (still god like vs awesome like they said)
but the advantage will not be over 150%.

also MS advantage with this method is also smaller game sinstalled on the disk (1/5 less seems about right).

And let's not forget Microsoft's Skynet A.I that will be self aware by 2022 and will be able to compress textures even further, so we're really looking at 10GB/s in year 2, which is a testament to how future proof the Xbox Series X really is. People sleeping on this...

 

[chilichote]

Don't understand why he even bothers with random twitter users that say dumb things.

Because you shouldn't leave nonsense undisputed.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

I'm wondering how much Tempest Engine will be used for audio vs how much it will be used for things like accelerated physics calculations? It's not a trivial amount of processing power sitting outside of the CPU & GPU, and it's unlikely to be shared by systems relying on Dolby devices doing their own processing.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Because you shouldn't leave nonsense undisputed.

I would think his time is too valuable, but he can choose that himself of course. I don't see Bill Gates explaining on Twitter that corona isn't his fault to the weird conspiracy theorists...

 

[zaitsu]

I'm wondering how much Tempest Engine will be used for audio vs how much it will be used for things like accelerated physics calculations? It's not a trivial amount of processing power sitting outside of the CPU & GPU, and it's unlikely to be shared by systems relying on Dolby devices doing their own processing.

I think for quite some time ZEN2 will be enough, it is't bother with data transfer,sound like jaguar.
Samsung galaxy S6 has faster CPU than PS4, and PS4 CPU is running game like TLOU2. It's amazing.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I'm wondering how much Tempest Engine will be used for audio vs how much it will be used for things like accelerated physics calculations? It's not a trivial amount of processing power sitting outside of the CPU & GPU, and it's unlikely to be shared by systems relying on Dolby devices doing their own processing.

The PS5 will have more CPU available for physics. I think devs will use it as intended.

 

[hemo memo]

Your numbers are funny and made me laugh. No offense, I like using that GIF I apologise for my rudeness.

Anyway, most people still dont get it so another go ....

What about a 24 GBs SSD LQD 4500 , that will smoke ps5 right ? .. Latency, abstration layers in Dx12 all say hello.

Tim sweeny again having some fun :

Tim should be hired by Sony. He is doing a better job at educating people about the console.

 

[chilichote]

I would think his time is too valuable, but he can choose that himself of course. I don't see Bill Gates explaining on Twitter that corona isn't his fault to the weird conspiracy theorists...

I don't use Twitter, but Tim Sweeney was asked something to which he replied. Then this nonsense was written, which Tim then named as such. If I had so much knowledge of such technologies and someone would bother me with so much nonsense on Twitter, I would correct that too. And yes, what he "sacrifices" his time on Twitter for is his business. And since he's tech-savvy, he may enjoy sharing it with others from time to time.

 

[Madjako]

Hi everyone this is my first post here.
I would like to be added to the hype train, even though if you look closely, you'll find me in as I've been on this train since 1995. Yes I'm old

 

[ToadMan]

I would think his time is too valuable, but he can choose that himself of course. I don't see Bill Gates explaining on Twitter that corona isn't his fault to the weird conspiracy theorists...

Bill Gates isn't promoting a corporate product any more - he's semi retired..

Elon Musk is very active on Twitter as are most of the new breed of technologists. If you're not there, you're missing a major marketing opportunity.

 

[geordiemp]

Tim should be hired by Sony. He is doing a better job at educating people about the console.

To be fair, Cerny tried, but we were just not ready.

I think even PCs are so far behind with fat abstration layers and apis, 3rd party will limit streaming as nobody can do what ps5 does unless MS change windows file systems for gaming.

I think Sony first party will be 2 layers above everything else for next few years in image quality, especially large maps or open world with quality assets that cannot be used by others in the frame rendering times.

Lets come back to this in a a month...

 

[Throttle]

Soony could at least release the video on Friday or Monday. But probably it will take weeks, and then something else happens and: "Sorry, no fun allowed in this climate".

All this wait and silence is really annoying

 

[geordiemp]

Soony could at least release the video on Friday or Monday. But probably it will take weeks, and then something else happens and: "Sorry, no fun allowed in this climate".

All this wait and silence is really annoying

 

[SSfox]

VR ?

VR stuff from Sega? That's what supposed to compete with PS5 event?

Get the F outta here Famitsu dude

 

[Cobenzl]

If we're posting Besty quotes for some levity, here are a couple of my faves.

 

[Shmunter]

I'm wondering how much Tempest Engine will be used for audio vs how much it will be used for things like accelerated physics calculations? It's not a trivial amount of processing power sitting outside of the CPU & GPU, and it's unlikely to be shared by systems relying on Dolby devices doing their own processing.

Solid question. Can be applied to all sorts of things, maybe even super dooper upscaling

 

[Throttle]

VR stuff from Sega? That's what supposed to compete with PS5 event?

Get the F outta here Famitsu dude

If it's VR related it would be a ray of light in this darkness, but probably they will announce that they are going to invest all their resources in pachinko machines

 

[SSfox]

That memorial is at 1pm as well.

Now the delay make even more sens.

 

[IkarugaDE]

Did anyone still noticed sony removed the "holiday 2020"-info from the PS5-site at playstation.com and replaced the picture with a background-video?

PlayStation®5 | Play Has No Limits | PlayStation

Everything you need to know about the PlayStation®5 console and PlayStation®5 Digital Edition with a new slim PS5 design. The best PS5 games, PS5 accessories, and the DualSense wireless controller.

www.playstation.com

 

[Shmunter]

Your numbers are funny and made me laugh. No offense, I like using that GIF I apologise for my rudeness.

Anyway, most people still dont get it so another go ....

What about a 24 GBs SSD LQD 4500 , that will smoke ps5 right ? .. Latency, abstration layers in Dx12 all say hello.

Tim sweeny again having some fun :

A little nuke went off on the horizon. Ouch, the burn

 

[SSfox]

Your numbers are funny and made me laugh. No offense, I like using that GIF I apologise for my rudeness.

Anyway, most people still dont get it so another go ....

What about a 24 GBs SSD LQD 4500 , that will smoke ps5 right ? .. Latency, abstration layers in Dx12 all say hello.

Tim sweeny again having some fun :

Tim is a very patient guy. Surprise to see him still reply those kind of ignorant morons.

 

[Fdkenzo]

If the events in US will continue all the summer, Sony will not held the conference?
Weird year, this is the year of the rats in the chineze calendar, Until now we lived exactly like rats In 2020.

 

[zaitsu]

now it's about velocity architecture i guess

 

[jasondefaoite]

Don't understand why he even bothers with random twitter users that say dumb things.

He's on the Sony payroll, remember?

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

something some of you deny hard is ps5 advantage is not what compression data make it like to be (one compress huge part of the data better even if we don't have the detail of how much in practice (outisde 70-75% reference))
i did a quick math with 50% advantage on textures
and MS will keep up up to 6gb/s. if the advantage is 70-75% they can probably keep up to nearly 7gb/s
in the end the advantage will probably be ~3gb/s for ps5 so ~50% (still god like vs awesome like they said)
but the advantage will not be over 150%.

also MS advantage with this method is also smaller game sinstalled on the disk (1/5 less seems about right).

Here are some of my calculatioms from another thread.

On the Topic of SSD speeds in both consoles:

XSX : SSD Read Speed is 2.4GB/s
PS5: SSD Read Speed is 5.5GB/S

All those other numbers that are floating around already count in compressed data.

Example:
If both consoles would read 100Gb of data that has been compressed to 50GB of data. ( 50% compression)
XSX - 20.83 seconds to Read 50GB of compressed data and output 100GB of data
PS5 - 9.09 seconds to Read 50GB of compressed data and output 100GB of data

Another example with some of these numbers that have been reported:
If both consoles need to read 100Gb of textures that have been compressed by kraken / BCPack
XSX - BCPack compression 60% - 40GB Compressed Data - 40GB/2.4GB = 16.7 seconds
PS5 - Kraken compression 30% - 70GB Compressed Data - 70GB/5.5GB = 12.7 seconds

So in the time XSX reads those 100 GB of Data that has been compressed by 60% - the PS5 could actually read 91.85GB of Kraken compressed data, which would be 119.40GB of textures.

KEEP IN MIND HOWEVER THOSE COMPRESSION RATES ARE JUST ASSUMPTIONS
We have no idea how good either of those compression methods is at compressing texture.
Also not all data necessary is texture data.
Compressions rate might therefore differ between all kinds of data structures.

Care to correct me then?
I mean did I make any mistake with these calculations?
Are they wrong?
Sure the compression rates are assumptions I already said that.


Just so you know based on my example:
7.87 = 100%
5.99 = 76%
Delta = 24% aka XSX is 24% slower then PS5.

Please note that while xsx has nearly 6.0GB/s compressed data in this case the PS5 has only 7.9GB/s which is still not what Cerny said.
I mean this is simple math you can probably tell me if I've made any mistakes.

Yes as stated.
I've read somewhere textures are the biggest chunk thats constantly loaded on hdds and about 25% of all data thats usually loaded.
However this was last gen. I have no idea how things will be on next-gen. Hard to tell.

Either way this example was all in favor of xsx anyways. My guess is PS5's speed advantage will be bigger in real life environments if its neccesary. Because the 60% compression of bcpqck will only effect 25% of the overall data thats beeing loaded.
The rest will use zlip which has about 25% less compression then kraken.

Xsx: 100GB Data = 25GB Textures @ 60% Compression + 75GB Other Data @ 22.5% Compression = 10GB compressed Textures + 58.125 GB other Data = 68.125GB @ 2.4GB/s = 28.39seconds

PS5: 100GB @ 30% compression = 70GB @ 5.5GB/s = 12.73 seconds

Just another take at this. Theres no way we can say which scenario games will use in the future. Either way PS5's SSD will always be faster. Even in the worst case its still 24% faster then xsx.
In this case here its even about 55% faster.

 

[ResilientBanana]

PC's have loosy cases that can't create enough air pressure to hit the heat sink fast and hard enough nor taken out of the case as fast, that's why you end up with plenty of fans or other cooling solutions. Consoles can smartly tunnel air and produce more air speed and pressure so it hits the heat sink fast and gets out fast as well. Plus, the PS5 cooling solution is not gonna be something traditional.

That's great, but I'm not sure if you seen the heat sink on the XSX but it's huge. Not to mention Rumors are floating around that the PS5 isn't much different.

 

[LED Guy?]

The differences between Xbox Series X SSD and PlayStation 5 SSD is huge, don't let anyone lie to you, guys, the PS5 can do stuff that isn't possible on XSX, it's just that simple.

"Velocity" architecture won't close that huge gap, sorry, both console have their own architectural nuances & efficiencies and all that.

But the difference still remains.

PS5 = 5.5 GB/s (compressed 9 GB/s).
XSX = 2.4 GB/s (compressed 4.8 GB/s).

 

[Leo_Barcellos]

'quit dreaming' guys

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

moving goalposts ...funny

Says a guy who has a perma reply ban warning for posting clickbait links

That is funny.

 

[FeiRR]

now it's about velocity architecture i guess

I see a missed semicolon!

Just joking

 

[HawarMiran]

'quit dreaming' guys

that dude clearly likes to smell his own farts. what a retard
Edit: Logo Renard? More like Hobo Retard, AMIRIGHT?

 

[M-V2]

This year....

FUUUUUUUUUUUCKKKKKK!!!!!!!

 

[IkarugaDE]

Segas big thing really could go into a hybrid-console - or cloud-gaming.

WIPO - Search International and National Patent Collections

 

[SportsFan581]

That's great, but I'm not sure if you seen the heat sink on the XSX but it's huge. Not to mention Rumors are floating around that the PS5 isn't much different.

That's more an example than a contrary argument. The tighter space of the XSX chassis allows MS to control air flow. 1u & 2u servers can be modelled in the same way. As soon as you get large open cavities' in the PC, you can no longer micromanage airflow.

 

[SportsFan581]

It isn't beyond the realms of possibility that publishers will fully align to PS5 and lump XsX in with PC while they wait for PC I/O hardware to surpass PS5.

Xbox's focus on gamepass across all three Xboxes may make it even easier for publishers to outsource XsX ports, or deliver them later to market and concentrate on PS5.

You'd think that devs would be smart enough not to give up their seat at the table. Which is what happens the very moment you are limited to a single distribution avenue. I'd hope they'd see the value in an open and competitive market, without that, they devalue their own work.

MS's relationship with developers and publishers is stronger than ever at the moment, with a few of the bigger names especially. I think they'll be fine.

 

[IkarugaDE]

Did anyone still noticed sony removed the "holiday 2020"-info from the PS5-site at playstation.com and replaced the picture with a background-video?

PlayStation®5 | Play Has No Limits | PlayStation

Everything you need to know about the PlayStation®5 console and PlayStation®5 Digital Edition with a new slim PS5 design. The best PS5 games, PS5 accessories, and the DualSense wireless controller.

www.playstation.com

GAF -> Reddit -> Internet -> GAF.