Dolomite
Member
Mesh shaders are NOT the same as primitive shaders
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Nickolaidas
Banned
The 2-3 seconds? They don't need one. 1 sec to fade to black, 1 sec to remain black, 3rd sec for the screen to reappear.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
4news's Roberto Serrano. According to his sources, the new game is Xbox Series X exclusive with gorgeous visuals and online features. Here is the breakdown of the new info:
- Action-adventure
- Immersive fun game experience
- Photorealistic and interactive environments
- High detailed animations
- FX and outstanding visual effects
- Online features
- Unreal Engine 5
- No release date yet
New Xbox Series X exclusive is an action-adventure with photorealistic graphics
Xbox's newly formed studio The Initiative are set to reveal their first project at the upcoming Xbox event in July according to latest reports. Apparently, the game is an action-adventure with stunning visuals, built on Unreal Engine 5.www.altchar.com
Unreal Engine 5 isn't available for devs until 2021 though?
I am sorry but this won't be the case. Go to any ssd review site. They will show different specs based on file size and how sequential the data is. I believe (but maybe wrong) the reason why non sequential is a problem is you maybe unable to read off all the ssd chips at once.
As far as the gpu you can treat both as theoretical maxes if you want. But they apply to both consoles and these maxes will most likely be a similar percent for both consoles.
T-Cake
Member
It's not going to be July in which we can gauge the power of the XSX, it will be more like December after Digital Foundry have run through some of the third party launch games. We need the same games on both XSX and PS5 to see how the difference in specs make a difference (if any!)
I thought most here are saying hellblade 2 was not real gameplay? If it is great. It is the best game footage I have seen this gen.
Dolomite
Member
It's available to the public, indie devs you and me in 2021. Sony could not the only Company to get hands on the updated engine. It makes too much sense that Epic would allow thier close partners early access to , (for all we know, may be just updated plugins) UE5.
I've said in other threads that because UE5 is based on UE4; nanite, lumen, and all the other bell & whistles we haven't heard of yet could be simple plugins built on the same engine.
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Darius87
Member
i'm talking about ps5 ssd not PC(which has many overheads) which are totally different when you compare it PS5 SSD which are 12(64GB) flash chips soldered very close to it's APU which reduce latency there's no way you can get this type of SSD in PC's. and as far we know ps5 could get closer to it's tflops max(10.3) because of it's architecture, coherency engines, cache scrubbers.
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D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
That's when it's released for everyone to access. I can imagine that there are developers that already have access to it.
Vae_Victis
Banned
What does this even mean or tell anybody? Was the leaked info delivered to him by Phil Spencer directly?
Also, isn't this the same dude who before another event (I think the PS5 one?) boasted exclusive insider info on one of the games coming up, and all he ever gave out was a random google photo of an iceberg that turned out to most likely mean absolutely nothing in relation to anything that was actually shown?
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TLZ
Banned
There's no such thing in the PS5. 2.23ghz is its clock.
TBiddy
Member
What does this even mean or tell anybody? Was the leaked info delivered to him by Phil Spencer directly?
Also, isn't this the same dude who before another event (I think the PS5 one?) boasted exclusive insider info on one of the games coming up, and all he ever gave out was a random google photo of an iceberg that turned out to most likely mean absolutely nothing in relation to anything that was actually shown?
It's the one and only yes. He has absolutely no insider knowledge.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Unless I'm reading the below wrong it sounds like UE5 is in development until next year and devs can only build in UE4 for now and convert to UE5 after it releases in 2021.
A first look at Unreal Engine 5
Get a glimpse of new and improved real-time rendering features currently in development.
www.unrealengine.com
FranXico
Member
You are mistaking transfer times for bandwidth. Not the same thing. Sequential and random impact transfer times because seek times are non-zero, not even in SSDs (although they are negligible compared to those of mechanical drives). Bandwidth is intrinsic to the bus/channels.
And nobody is calling any viewpoint controversial either.
mitchman
Gold Member
There are close enough in functionality in that they have access to primitives, close enough that even the wikipedia entry gather them on the same heading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shader. Perhaps you can explain the specific differences then?
thurnishaleygw
Member
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Summary: He believes only the effects are really next-gen and not possible on current consoles. Mostly the number of particles in the frame, Ray-Tracing application, and depth-of-field. Which is related to processing power. He didn't think the number of assets in a scene would be a problem for current-gen. He also didn't even mention the SSD and loading times when you jumped from 1 world to another.
Thirty7ven
Banned
In the previous video on Ratchet he addresses the SSD. The portals specifically.
So you're wrong on that.
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Dargor
Member
Did you watch the video? He literally "accuses" sony of going into insomniac studios and saying "hey guys, we have a ssd now, do a game around that"
edit: oops too slow ^
edit 2: oops seems its the wrong video, not my fault though, dude put the almost exact same thumbnail on both videos
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FranXico
Member
He added a caption about the SSD use in this video. Also, he mentioned the obvious use of the SSD for fast loads in his previous video (about the announcement trailer).
He does warn that ray-tracing is not necessarily used everywhere nor is it always obvious to spot.
Edit: as for the bold, he specifically said that the art style of this game would not benefit from higher detail geometry, etc. He didn't make any sweeping generalizations regarding next-gen hardware.
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pawel86ck
Banned
Edit. he made 2 videos about this game, first was trailer analysis and now gameplay.
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Nowcry
Member
Are we discussing bandwidth vs. Tflops by CU occupancy?
CU occupancy above 60% in a real program is considered good programming. 100% occupancy is only possible in benchmark. No real non-benchmark program will ever achieve 100% at least not for now and for the next decades.
You can squeeze their brains with the following heavy reading:
https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/t...lysis-method-for-optimizing-any-gpu-workload/
The coherence engines and the cache correctors will improve the use of the CU, as well as having a faster clock in the entire I / O complex (if the rumors are true and in PS5 the I / O controller is actually based on GPU CU tall clocks will improve the use of CU in several ways). I have read from leaks in ERA that inactive or standby CUs on PS5 are able to assist with I / O management to dedicated CUs, this will further enhance 2-way occupancy.
A stopped CU will not be because it will be managing I / O and on the other hand the I / O management aid will improve the times to occupy more CU.
It is a very brilliant idea and Cerny is a genius. It won't be long before we see CU GPU-based I / O management from here on out. Maybe improve utilization with good programming to 70% 75%? I would love to have a study in the future that talks about it. But I remember that a 10% -15% improvement on PS5 is being able to enjoy 1-1.5 more Tflops of power. Hopefully we could know the real impact, in August we will be able to know more about XVA and we will be able to know what SX has and see if MS made the right decisions. For now XVA is unknown. (I am speculating on the improvements, but I want to think that the improvement must be greater than the cost of the CU (2 CU on PS5) used for I / O at least)
The maximum theoretical speed of the PS5 SSD is 5.5 GB / s and I do not think it can be reached, however the actual use of the SSD will be through the I / O controller, Cerny spoke of a maximum I / O of 22 GB / s and that think 8-9 GB / s on average. That is the average data possibly achieved without Oddle Textures, possibly quite conservative and closer to 10 GB / s real according to all patents.
You have to think about the entire I / O group because the I / O was designed as a whole group. If you are worried about BC, it will probably load everything 10 times faster. 30 sec -> 3 sec 60 sec -> 6 sec. It is a very important gain, but a BC game will only serve to wait less in the loads it will not have any change beyond, so I think it is not important.
I hope the translator does a good job.
CU occupancy above 60% in a real program is considered good programming. 100% occupancy is only possible in benchmark. No real non-benchmark program will ever achieve 100% at least not for now and for the next decades.
You can squeeze their brains with the following heavy reading:
https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/t...lysis-method-for-optimizing-any-gpu-workload/
The coherence engines and the cache correctors will improve the use of the CU, as well as having a faster clock in the entire I / O complex (if the rumors are true and in PS5 the I / O controller is actually based on GPU CU tall clocks will improve the use of CU in several ways). I have read from leaks in ERA that inactive or standby CUs on PS5 are able to assist with I / O management to dedicated CUs, this will further enhance 2-way occupancy.
A stopped CU will not be because it will be managing I / O and on the other hand the I / O management aid will improve the times to occupy more CU.
It is a very brilliant idea and Cerny is a genius. It won't be long before we see CU GPU-based I / O management from here on out. Maybe improve utilization with good programming to 70% 75%? I would love to have a study in the future that talks about it. But I remember that a 10% -15% improvement on PS5 is being able to enjoy 1-1.5 more Tflops of power. Hopefully we could know the real impact, in August we will be able to know more about XVA and we will be able to know what SX has and see if MS made the right decisions. For now XVA is unknown. (I am speculating on the improvements, but I want to think that the improvement must be greater than the cost of the CU (2 CU on PS5) used for I / O at least)
The maximum theoretical speed of the PS5 SSD is 5.5 GB / s and I do not think it can be reached, however the actual use of the SSD will be through the I / O controller, Cerny spoke of a maximum I / O of 22 GB / s and that think 8-9 GB / s on average. That is the average data possibly achieved without Oddle Textures, possibly quite conservative and closer to 10 GB / s real according to all patents.
You have to think about the entire I / O group because the I / O was designed as a whole group. If you are worried about BC, it will probably load everything 10 times faster. 30 sec -> 3 sec 60 sec -> 6 sec. It is a very important gain, but a BC game will only serve to wait less in the loads it will not have any change beyond, so I think it is not important.
I hope the translator does a good job.
BadBreathOfTheWild
Member
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Dargor
Member
DrDamn
Member
Of that "new" info everything in bold can be chalked up as the bleeding obvious and in italics as a reasonable assumption. So we can narrow down the "new" info to Photorealistic. Actually more pertinent are the implications of the XSX exclusivity and Unreal 5 which would put release date into 2022 territory? Given they were formed in 2018 that actually bodes well for them being given a decent amount of time to grow and develop the game.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
I'm talking about this video... Not a trailer which isn't the same as gameplay...
Thirty7ven
Banned
The trailer had gameplay. The guy was looking for new things to talk about.
Don't think it makes sense for you to die on this hill brother. Live to fight another day.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
I was only giving a summary of the video because it's 15min long.
My apologies to all Sony fans that I didn't mention that he discussed the SSD in the previous video, next time I'll make sure to include the summary of the 5 previous videos too.
Dargor
Member
Since you're offering, be sure to do that, my friend.
MasterCornholio
Member
To be fair I believe that after receiving that feedback from their last show they probably thought about doing better.
Just my thoughts
Neo Blaster
Member
This generation saw both the rise and the fall of open world games, at the beginning everyone was rejoicing about the sheer size of maps and number of missions, literally hundreds of hours of gameplay. But from middle to end, people began to suffer OW fatigue due to colectatons, dull side missions and mostly empty worlds. It's not about quantity, it's about quality of time again, not every game can be a Witcher 3.
This situation reminds me of TV series, what do you prefer: a 24-episode full of fillers series or a 10-12 episode one that goes straight to the point?
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Neo Blaster
Member
4k is cool and nobody would say otherwise, but when you start to see diminishing returns compared to post-process effects/techniques and quality assets like we saw on that UE5 demo, you begin to wonder if all that processing power wouldn't be better used on other stuff, like framerates.
Setsuna Mudou
Member
If you say there's no arguing that you're in for disappointment lol. You would need to define what it even means 20% more powerful. Normally in benchmarks you would measure 20% fps advantage at running the same software with all else being the same. I doubt you have any way to prove that claim anytime soon.
SSfox
Member
This too, but also combined with the PS5 show, imo at least. I think both will be factors on how they will handle their next event.
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TBiddy
Member
Next time, you better watch all his videos before making uninformed reviews of his newest video. You never know if he commented on a certain subject in 2017.
It's literally right there in the numbers. XSX is roughly 20% more powerful than the PS5. 10 vs. 12 TF.
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Setsuna Mudou
Member
That's only true if you don't look at the video. He disclaims at 6:09 he was excluding the fast loading.
Neo Blaster
Member
They started with tflops, then went to velocity architecture, BC, Smart Delivery, size and now immersion. It's like everytime something positive is said about a certain PS5 feature, they have to brag 'me too'. Too reactionary to my tastes.
sircaw
Banned
You can see mesh shading/VRS? effects in both Horizon and AC Valhalla, just zoom in to see clear square-like construction:
AC Valhalla (most likely running on PC). Here has slightly bigger squares, more visible/rough:
I zoomed in but then i realised that Pose of Aloy has some serious curvature to it. Not trying to sexualize her or anything but i suspect there is some serious Booty hidden under that outfit and by Booty i am not talking about the Microsoft dude.
Setsuna Mudou
Member
Please re-read my statement. A tflop count does not equal a "power" advantage in any way. Performance tests are not made with theoretical tflop counts, but with FPS counts under similar conditions. Therefore, the only way you can prove that claim is having the same game playing on both PS5 and XSX and with all the same settings still see a 20% higher fps count (assuming no frame limiting). So, please don't use a tflop theoretical number to prove any power advantages in this regard, especially when seeing 2 different system architectures, it's just meaningless.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I zoomed in but then i realised that Pose of Aloy has some serious curvature to it. Not trying to sexualize her or anything but i suspect there is some serious Booty hidden under that outfit and by Booty i am not talking about the Microsoft dude.
It's a rock-hard booty, but a soft lick would make it relax a bit.
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MasterCornholio
Member
Yep im pretty sure Sony is listening to feedback from their last event as well. For example they might do a better job with the streams quality for the next event.
TBiddy
Member
Right now, the only thing we have to go on are theoretical measurements, and by them, the XSX is 20% more powerful than the PS5. I'm sorry that doesn't fit your world view. If it helps, the theoretical measurements show that the SSD in the PS5 is about twice as fast as the one in the XSX.
sircaw
Banned
It's a rock-hard booty, but a soft lick would make it relax a bit.
I am always trying to learn technical stuff on these forums but every bloody page i turn, people are always distracting me with awesome screenshots. Regardless if it's Spider man, Aloy butt pics or Amanda Cerny, there is just to much eye candy on display.
When will this Madness end.
Neo Blaster
Member
Actually he did that on the previous video, he kinda mocked the publisher for bragging 'look what I can do with PS5 SSD!!!'
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Setsuna Mudou
Member
The correct answer to lack of information is not making up information based on bad premises. I have no particular world view or agenda, just thought I would point out an incorrect statement based on faulty assumptions, nothing more
If you want me to really be pedantic is not really the SSD in of itself that gives such a huge advantage to the PS5, but rather the full I/O architecture solution. You have faster SSDs on pc that should perform much worse than the PS5 just because of the dedicated I/O architecture being optimized for gaming.
TBiddy
Member
The correct answer to lack of information is not making up information based on bad premises. I have no particular world view or agenda, just thought I would point out an incorrect statement based on faulty assumptions, nothing more
If you want me to really be pedantic is not really the SSD in of itself that gives such a huge advantage to the PS5, but rather the full I/O architecture solution. You have faster SSDs on pc that should perform much worse than the PS5 just because of the dedicated I/O architecture being optimized for gaming.
There's nothing incorrect about it. It is what it is. It's a theoretical advantage, sure, but it's there and it's 20%.
And you're right about the I/O architecture, but as you said yourself earlier: "Please re-read my statement".
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Neo Blaster
Member
If they came to the point of literally apologizing for their last presentation, MS can't be that dumb to not show REAL gameplay this time.
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