Dibils2k
Member
it will look like it in the 60fps mode...
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sircaw
Banned
It's a highly technical patent that is pretty hard to read.
Yup. I get $200/hr
Hello Beautiful, I love your mind too.
Paycheck third honest
geordiemp
Member
Not too sure what UE5 demo is doing exactly, but this is very different, its hardware silicon compression and decompression in different parts of the GPU vertex to pixel shader for more efficiency / bandwidth and smaller cache it seems.
The below flow diagram shows what its doing, standard shaders do not do the compression and decompresson stages I believe. Higher efficiency shader hardware / bandwidth.
We do not know if this is in ps5, but would not be surprised, and Sony are not only compressing SSD data but also data between parts of the GPU.
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Vaztu
Member
With all the talk of Sony money hatting 3rd party games, is it likely those devs will focus on PS5's SSD ?
Say if Sony get a 6month timed exclusive, the devs could very well focus on PS5's strengths first then after release start optimizing for other consoles. Is that a possibility ?
Say if Sony get a 6month timed exclusive, the devs could very well focus on PS5's strengths first then after release start optimizing for other consoles. Is that a possibility ?
jose4gg
Member
I think part of those deals could include those things as we saw in the Project Anthia, Designed for PS5
Jerm411
Member
So they're going to make one build of their game for a 6 month window and then have to go back and do more work and re-vamp it after that for the other platforms....?
Not a chance....
I read the whole fucking patent and they state what the example usage would be.
And it's software rasterization.
UE5 uses software rasterization.
We don't now if it's an "assisted" one like what's described in the patent, but still.
Jerm411
Member
"Designed for PS5" is marketing speak, just like "Optimized for Series X.....
Hell 2k21 said the same thing and it's coming to everything....
MasterCornholio
Member
I'm willing to bet that after all their efforts with the PS5s I/O they are going to try and get developers to use it properly. One of the things that I saw that proves this is the added support for the PS5s I/O with Epics Unreal Engine. I expect similar with other developers.
KURDISTAN YPG
Member
Great read thanks for this info-
Metroiddarks
Member
I love this armchair devs.
For me always was clear you don't like Playstation, but just before this post you made another
complaining about this thread is the same as PS5 thread I mean is okay if you like more Xbox, is your money,
the thing is you are never show any technical ability in this thread but now based in your personal
preference your able to known if a game can run in PS4.
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Vaztu
Member
Is it the time limit that makes you skeptical or just that 'lazy devs are lazy' ?
If its 1 year timed exclusive is there a chance ? RDR2 took 12 months to come to PC.
Jerm411
Member
The time, effort, and $$....not to mention Covid.
Has nothing to do with "devs being lazy"....
What is the point? How would that even be organized, negotiated, and put into practice? "You must put something in your game that takes advantage of OUR SSD?"
Come on....
Dibils2k
Member
i dont hate PS, but i dont like PS4 Pro cause its a terribly built system, but i am excited for PS5 and spiderman was the most fun game i played this genI love this armchair devs.
For me always was clear you don't like Playstation, but just before this post you made another
complaining this thread is is the same as PS5 thread I mean is okay if you more Xbox is your money,
the thing is you are never show any technical ability in this thread but now based in your personal
preference your able to known if a game can run in PS4.
i am just talking based on calculated assumptions, there hasnt been long enough of a time for them to make the drastic graphical improvements, ray traced puddles is probably the biggest upgrade but i dont see that being available in 60fps otherwise why bother having a 30fps mode
this is common sense to me
geordiemp
Member
Sorry if I upset, its not an easy read for me either, would not be surprised if UE5 demo is doing this as well and I said I do not know I am just reading the patent.
Here it says the compression is done by the vertex shader and I read that as hardware but I could be wrong
Then the benefits are increased shader throughput and rendering.
Appreciate your inputs.
To me this is a Shader throughput optimisation method by increasing the throughput of compressed vertex shaders pipeline before the next stage which is pixel shader.
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Vaztu
Member
Yeah Covid can affect, but the other 3 is mostly solved by Sony money hatting. Money to the publisher / devs means enough resources to hire or pay more to staff. Then after timed-exclusive release, with that money, they can choose to keep their contract workers/staff and start optimizing for other consoles.
While you are correct it will not be negotiated like that, but if they HAVE to put into practice, I would guess they would put loading time range or even minimum 4k(or 8k) resolution textures in the clause. Again, not saying its gonna happen.
Just speculating if timed-exclusive deals affect game design (if done early).
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I was answering the "what it can be used for" question.
Where there exists hardware support for that remains to be seen.
I would say it's not that a hardware comp/decomp is needed, but the hardware needs to be aware of the comp scheme when doing the interpolation step.
Essentially the compression schemes are "online" ones where you don't need to decompress stuff to do some specific manipulations (like linear interpolation).
VFXVeteran
Banned
Ouch, I just read this paper. Not a big fan of using stack storage to maintain precision. Ugghh.. these tricks give me a headache. I'd rather just brute force it. That's the film guy in me.
Moridianae
Member
Past the mid-August point. I really hope Sony says something before Gamescom or just after.
geordiemp
Member
Thanks - the benefits bit is interesting as well.
I would not be surprised if this was the special Geometry engine benefit, as it would be automatic on all shader performance as all data from first part of GPU (vertex) after computational changes is then compressed and sent to second part of GPU (Pixel) with higher throughput and then decompressed.
To me it reads like two parts of the GPU with compress and decompress between them for higher shader throughput.
Had enough reading patents for the day, its like being at work reading technical papers,.and semiconductor papers are just as bad lol...
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jose4gg
Member
The game is coming for PC and is a Next-generation only game, so the similarity with Optimized for Series X does not really add up... Of course, as you said it can still be a marketing tag, but if the game end-up having some kind of functionality, level design, that takes advantages of the I/O power of the PS5 and because of that it cannot be ported "completely" to PC, than we can talk about the Designed for PS5
Metroiddarks
Member
At least you are able to see the already released captures and video and tell us
which features you can see in screen and explain in general way how works for me
you comment doesn't have any base and its based in personal tastes.
You can ignore RT if you want, assuming the game will not have when runs to 60 fps.
The game development is something much more complex than the use of common sense.
Dibils2k
Member
yeah ok but can you tell me what you expect the difference between 30fps and 60fps modes to be then? the thought that 60fps mode will downgrade the visuals (to be close to PS4) is way more realistic than the claim earlier thinking 60fps mode will just be same visually.... i dont need to be a developer to know there will be sacrifices to get double the frames
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FeiRR
Banned
Insomniac are a very ambitious dev studio. They design their games in a future-proof way. This is a fascinating insight into their engine. When you have the right tool, you can expand your open world map in a rapid way. MM game introduces two new districts of New York because they've already done their job on the programming side.
FeiRR
Banned
Zilog guy per chance?Atari VS Amiga
I don't know which popcorn eating gif to use!
JonnyMP3
Member
No... I'm only just slightly younger than you lot I guess as my first system was the NES.Zilog guy per chance?
geordiemp
Member
Hello Beautiful, I love your mind too.
Paycheck third honest
I will give you a simpler version.
First part of GPU works out where triangles are in space, changes them then outputs lots of big numbers into a strore, this slows down the GPU throughput.
The second part of the GPU takes the numbers from the store and colours them in and lights em up.
The patent adds compression between part1 and part 2 decompresses making GPU go faster.
ToadMan
Member
6 month exclusive? Hmmmm. Well they might get a company to add in basic haptic support - that's something easy to remove in subsequent ports.
Other than something "simple" like that your suggestion seems unlikely - 6 month exclusivity is probably just a marketing arrangement.
But the longer the period of exclusivity and the less complete the product, the more latitude Sony (or MS) has to define the requirements of the game.
Adding haptics and perhaps making use of things like the Tempest engine are relatively easy for Sony to request because those things can be cut out easily enough.
Asking a dev to make a game which relies on PS5's data throughput as an underpinning of game design .... that's a more fundamental requirement. They'd need to get a game early in development and be prepared to pay for full exclusivity because that kind of product can't easily be ported.
Vaztu
Member
Not in 2-3 hours thats for sure. Europa League Semis starting in 10mins.
kyliethicc
Member
Jim Ryan actually told Sony investors that they expect the PS4 to be "the engine of engagement and profitability for the next 3 years" when discussing PS5 plans. He labeled that slide as "The critical role of PS4" in the presentation section on Next Gen strategy. They basically don't intend on making that much profit from PS5 for at least 2 years or so.
The estimates of total PS4 build cost was ~ 380. PS5 seems more expensive to build, and has been estimated around 450. Sony could sell PS5 at 500 and probably break even. It could even become profitable shortly after, perhaps 1 year later or so.
I wouldn't be shocked if the digital PS5 is sold at a loss. Sony made 80% of their revenue last quarter from digital games, digital subscriptions, digital add ons and DLC, micro transactions etc. Less than 10% of their revenue last quarter was physical games. They will want to push the digital PS5.
I still expect PS5 $500 and PS5 Digital $450 or $400.
SportsFan581
Member
This is true, but it's still interesting read the back and forth.
SportsFan581
Member
Has to be the best cartoon theme ever!
Never played it, what kind of game was that (fighting, rpg, etc.)?
Have you played marvel ultimate alliance? X-Men Legends 1 and 2 pretty much set the ground work for that game. Very similar but just with X-Men characters
sircaw
Banned
I am not gay but if I was, I would hit you.
Still confusing but less so lol
thank you.
FeiRR
Banned
Your post made me google the first thing I owned, I think I was 5 at that time.
Atari ST still sucks balls
Jboemios
Banned
You are right. Some people are just dumb. It does not make sense MS stop the production of Xbox. The Xbox business not only about games, it is about DirectX, it is about cloud, it is about AI research.
Lets suppose MS stop to produce Xbox and release Gamepass in PS. What prevent that sony blocks Gamepass in the future?
sircaw
Banned
yer its fun, a lot of the stuff its to complex, but sometimes you can get some good information, fucking crumbs.
But still, it's something.
Besides that, i spread havoc in the mean time.
sircaw
Banned
Its the one from the arcade yer? the scroller, like turtles, it might be a neo geo title.
that was very good?
Oh no this was on Gamecube, PS2, Xbox and psp. 4 players.
sircaw
Banned
ah ok Dammit, sorry.
Metroiddarks
Member
I can try but we don't have any media from that mode as we know will be only baseless theories.
When you are arguing is not good choose to make the other person explain your points, is like
say "I don't know nothing you have to defend my point".
Also you need to be a dev to try to understand how much they can cut and even then only someone of Insomniac can
say it with security.
I will try a couple of points because I am bored where I think Insomniac will make sacrifices but is just speculation:
-The RT will be not eliminated completely but only will work for the reflection of the main characters or other very important
objects with probably work a fraction of the resolution.
-Many of the RT reflection will be replace for SSR, Planer reflections (still expensive) or even cubemaps even
with 30 fps is probably they can use for very specific situations
-Less pedestrians per frame
-System of particles or any similar like fog will be affected in quantity of particles or even resolution
-Complex shader like the water will be also affected
-LOD more aggressive in general in the city so that means more impostors per frame
-Less dynamic lights
-Shadows with a lower resolution or heavier use of static shadows
-Is probably many of systems of particles doesn't project a shadow
-Dynamic resolution
-Aggressive culling solution (I am not sure about this)
-Material which use Tessellation or similar can affected but I am not sure how much the 30 fps version will use it
But even after all this an image of that game to 60 fps can looks better and with higher resolution than another of PS4 pro,
things like the animations of the speed of spiderman will be better than the old game and I don't think suffer for 60 fps mode.
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Nickolaidas
Banned
sircaw
Banned
that looks ace.
I think this was it, memory is a bit fuzzy, its along time ago. When you said 4 man i naturally assumed this.
I do recall the arcade looking a lot better than this though, maybe some strange port,
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JonnyMP3
Member
What the...? Wow. What a rarity. Also you were 1 of 100,000... Those numbers then compared to the millions sold now lol.Your post made me google the first thing I owned, I think I was 5 at that time.
Atari ST still sucks balls
sircaw
Banned
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