Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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geordiemp said:
Because its a node as well, and at 50 % Perf / watt improvement and logic changes so higher frequencies are coming for RDNA2 than RDNA1.

So lets say RDNA1 5700 is about 1.9 Ghz right ?

So we would expect RDNA2 to clock up to 2.2 or 2.3 Ghz for same power and bottlenecks have been removed that restricted rdna1 propagation.

So Ps5 at 2,23 Ghz sure is on that node, Lets wait for pC parts, I also expect them to be 2.1 Ghz (size dependent, as ps5 is 36 CU its going to be on the faster end of teh RDNA2 range)

XSX is a lower frequency than 5700, maybe as its server application design ?
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I have a question about this, MS have been talking about using server grade chips in XSX, wouldn't that even be the least bit detrimental to game performance if it's potentially not a completely gaming focused architecture, or am I just confusing that with compute focused?
 
kyliethicc said:
Its because the feature set is maleable. Cerny knows this, Lisa Su knows this, everyone gets this except Xbox fanboys.

There is no such thing as "full RDNA2" because even the PC GPUs will lack some of the console customizations. "Full" is theoretical and flawed in premise.

A true full RDNA2 would be if all the features and tweaks of the PS5, XSX, and AMD 6000 GPUs were magically combined into 1 unity GPU. Never gonna happen.

Its a chicken + egg thing for some I guess. Sony & Microsoft both work with AMD PC architecture to form their consoles, which then influences the AMD PC parts. Its a cycle.

Cerny even told everyone on stage, if you see a graphics card from AMD someday that resembles the PS5, thats because they liked our customizations and used it, because we collaborate. But some of the customizations are just for us. Some of that feature set is used by all. These custom consoles don't just use stock PC CPU/GPU feature sets.

AMD already has their ideas for RDNA2 before, then they collab, and all influence each other. Thats why its not even true to say "PS5/XSX has some stuff from RDNA 3" or whatever, because RDNA 3 is going to be formed later on, partially by incorporating custom stuff from one/both of the consoles. If anything, its the other way around.
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To be completely up front, as a mostly non-technical person, I wanted to get better concept about that than mine.

I suspected as much because common sense would tell a person that a product would indeed need all features all custom versions and standard oem versions are able to use to be "full".. and even that is theoretical If new features get added over time.

Anyone arguing anything else just sounds foolish. Also, anyone stating that because a chooser supports application means they have full RDNA2 doesn't get that the chip supports the application not the other way around.
 
yewles1 said:
I have a question about this, MS have been talking about using server grade chips in XSX, wouldn't that even be the least bit detrimental to game performance if it's potentially not a completely gaming focused architecture, or am I just confusing that with compute focused?
Click to expand...

No such thing really as server grade chips, only chips better suited to server applications....Probably why its clocked low for RDNA2 is my guess.
 
Gavin Stevens said:
I like how you quote certain pieces, but not the main ones, of what I said.

My original text:



What this meant is clearly at this time, we have no idea what is going on with Ps5, as it's RDNA feature set is yet to be confirmed. You same idiots have been taking about RDNA 3 for ages.



Come on guys, play the game here, use your heads. The number after isn't actually important. What it DOES, it's feature set, is what defines it. At this stage in time, we have absolutely nothing concrete on several prominent features, and as such, we can't compare to them.

I swear, you people love a little bit of controversy. PS5 could be RDNA 1, it could be RDNA 17.6. Who gives a shit What they call it. It can officially be called RDNA 2 without certain features, and this is what we need to know; what is missing, and what's been changed. Stop putting so much focus on the number, it doesn't actually matter.

Edit: as a side note, if Sony came out and said "yes, we are using RDNA 1.5", but the feature set of this was vastly superior to that of xboxes RDNA 2, would that be an issue? Or would you suddenly realise that that this is all pathetic and stop being complete and total tits? Just a thought.
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I missed you, ffs. Don't leave me in the dark again.
 
geordiemp said:
No such thing really as server grade chips, only chips better suited to server applications....Probably why its clocked low for RDNA2 is my guess.
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Given Microsoft reps referred the question about that labeling to AMD I'm going to guess it is a pure marketing label because AMD got their chips in Azure.
 
THE:MILKMAN said:
Anyone listening to Moores law is dead stream? He just revealed he heard RDNA3 (and PS5) might have per CU clocks...?
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Per CU clock seems very odd, dont buy that, the timing and logic would be very complex. Why ?

Also he rabbits on for ages, will wait for the time stamps :messenger_beaming:

Imtjnotu said:
what im guessing is both will use N7p.
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If there are many many layers to a chip, the critcal ones will be the gates / transistor switches if you like. The critical smallest one will be the gate and the speed of switching, which is based on the smallest dimension but also the material used in the gates and its properties.

So when people talk about 7nm, its a density but just about, some parts will be much larger than 7nm, thats just the smallest gate and you also have to think in 3D (thickness and widths / lengths). It could also be a fancy novel gate material that works better......secret sauces all the time bt you would not also get the transistor density.

A good indicator of how advanced in nm and how much EUV is used, which will allow smaller more consistent dimensions is the performance per watt and frequencies as well as density.

Hence we know ps5 is up there with 2.23 Ghz GPU which is impressive for such voulume parts, but also maybe PART due to the fancy cooling technology....

But you will never actually know unless AMD tell you. TSMC never will.
 
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Insane Metal said:
What? Where?
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Xbox doesn't have 560 GB/s of bandwidth. Its split. Its not that simple.

Could compare average bandwidth:

(560x.625)+(336x.375) =476
448x1 =448

476/448 = 1.06
448/476 = .94

So average bandwidth, XSX has 6% more.


Or could compare portions of bandwidth:

560/448 = 1.25
448/560 = 0.8
336/448 = 0.75
448/336 = 1.33

So for 10 of 16, XSX has +25% more than PS5
So for 10 of 16, PS5 has -20% less than XSX
So for 6 of 16, XSX has -25% less than PS5
So for 6 of 16, PS5 has +33% more than XSX

0.25 + -0.25 = 0.00
-0.20 + 0.33 = 0.13

XSX has an equal 25% advantage and 25% disadvantage when compared to the PS5.
PS5 has a larger 33% advantage than its 20% disadvantage when compared to XSX.

So comparing the portions, PS5 has 13% relative advantage in total.
 
Watched Moore's Law is Dead's recent livestream for added speculation on the Consoles. May have missed some timestamps since those weren't made available yet:

1:06:58 - 1:11:10 - What do you think on PS5 SSD's effect on MSRP? Also talks on the Xbox and the FUD on the cost of Consoles being at $600.

1:15:46 - 1:17:32 - How do you think AMD incorporates the PS5's 6 priority graphics pipeline into Navi 2 in the PC space (if at all)?

1:40:33 - 1:45:27 - Do you think Sony will have the PS5 teardown next week (assuming they mean this coming week)? Also discusses PS5 exclusives they're saving and the price of the Console. 'Playing chicken' talk, etc.

1:54:35 - end: PS5 Backwards Compatibility. Hopes of Microsoft's success with B/C will make Sony take it seriously.

Tom also actively refuses to talk about what game Mark Cerny is working on when asked.

 
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Me looking at the last 4 pages of the thread:
kVY3RaP.jpg
 
saintjules said:
Watched Moore's Law is Dead's recent livestream for added speculation on the Consoles. May have missed some timestamps since those weren't made available yet:

1:06:58 - 1:11:10 - What do you think on PS5 SSD's effect on MSRP? Also talks on the Xbox and the FUD on the cost of Consoles being at $600.
1:15:46 - 1:17:32 - How do you think AMD incorporates the PS5's 6 priority graphics pipeline into Navi 2 in the PC space (if at all)?
1:40:33 - 1:45:27 - Do you think Sony will have the PS5 teardown next week (assuming this coming week)? Also discusses PS5 exclusives they're saving and the price of the Console. 'Playing chicken' talk, etc.

Click to expand...

"PS5's SSD is not as expensive as you guys think".
"Microsoft would be insane to sell their console for too much although I have heard of up to $600. But I don't think they'll do it".
 
B_Boss said:
Found it! It's Grant Kot (@kotsoft). So to be accurate I'm not sure he believes his game would run better on Series X (please correct me if I'm wrong here, as perhaps he does which is perfectly fine 🍻) but he stated "Lastly, barrier to entry for PS5 is pretty high. No publicly available Graphics API specs or code and pricy devkits."

(source: https://www.neogaf.com/goto/post?id=257767950)

Fascinating work hes doing and at least one tweet here:
Click to expand...

Thats impressive, thanks for letting me know! I been looking at Grant Kot's YouTube channel for the last hour, his work is pretty damn good to put it lightly!

Yeah it seems a case of familiarity with directx that he's aspiring to be an Xbox dev. Personally I think his talents will more benefit the big game engines UE or Unity
 
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Gavin Stevens said:
I like how you quote certain pieces, but not the main ones, of what I said.

My original text:



What this meant is clearly at this time, we have no idea what is going on with Ps5, as it's RDNA feature set is yet to be confirmed. You same idiots have been taking about RDNA 3 for ages.



Come on guys, play the game here, use your heads. The number after isn't actually important. What it DOES, it's feature set, is what defines it. At this stage in time, we have absolutely nothing concrete on several prominent features, and as such, we can't compare to them.

I swear, you people love a little bit of controversy. PS5 could be RDNA 1, it could be RDNA 17.6. Who gives a shit What they call it. It can officially be called RDNA 2 without certain features, and this is what we need to know; what is missing, and what's been changed. Stop putting so much focus on the number, it doesn't actually matter.

Edit: as a side note, if Sony came out and said "yes, we are using RDNA 1.5", but the feature set of this was vastly superior to that of xboxes RDNA 2, would that be an issue? Or would you suddenly realise that that this is all pathetic and stop being complete and total tits? Just a thought.
Click to expand...


Well let me ask you this Gavin, do we know of any proven research that would suggest that the "RDNA2" name is or can be misleading or that if a chip is "RDNA2-based" that means that there are too less "RDNA2" features to be called "RDNA2"?

What you seem to imply or outright say is that just because it is called RDNA2 doesn't mean it is. My contention is that if it is called or known as RDNA2, that it must necessarily have enough features to be properly called as such and it's really as simple as that (perhaps not?)

Isn't the Series X "RDNA2 based" as well? I feel that this entire "RDNA2" intellectual discussion is sometimes semantics based and there's something fishy to me about the term "full RDNA2" 🤔....the PS5 & Series X both seem to be customized with RDNA2 features as a basis. If I've err'd in my thinking here someone please correct me.
 
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Digital live show (not pre-recorded) will be in LA instead of in Germany this time around

Event mainly on extended gameplay footage with only a handful of guests. Less talking, more games

 
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Wraith Phantom said:
Next week is going to be a game fest. The games are coming lads.



Click to expand...

Please next gen versions appears before I be so bored start to hur... hug people.
Gavin Stevens said:
I like how you quote certain pieces, but not the main ones, of what I said.

My original text:



What this meant is clearly at this time, we have no idea what is going on with Ps5, as it's RDNA feature set is yet to be confirmed. You same idiots have been taking about RDNA 3 for ages.



Come on guys, play the game here, use your heads. The number after isn't actually important. What it DOES, it's feature set, is what defines it. At this stage in time, we have absolutely nothing concrete on several prominent features, and as such, we can't compare to them.

I swear, you people love a little bit of controversy. PS5 could be RDNA 1, it could be RDNA 17.6. Who gives a shit What they call it. It can officially be called RDNA 2 without certain features, and this is what we need to know; what is missing, and what's been changed. Stop putting so much focus on the number, it doesn't actually matter.

Edit: as a side note, if Sony came out and said "yes, we are using RDNA 1.5", but the feature set of this was vastly superior to that of xboxes RDNA 2, would that be an issue? Or would you suddenly realise that that this is all pathetic and stop being complete and total tits? Just a thought.
Click to expand...

What to fuck are you talking about, what is a RDNA 1.7.6 is hardware not software. Both consoles use RDNA 2 customized that is the name, if you don't
understand that, then we can say the GPU of PS5 is more than RDNA 2 because has cache scrubber which is not present in RDNA 2 means now
PS5 is 2.98 or 2.57.... understand how stupid this sounds.

Man you probably think MIxtermedia,Timdog are good sources, I mean common this talk many about how big is your bias is or even worst the
lack of logic you have.
 
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THE:MILKMAN said:
Anyone listening to Moores law is dead stream? He just revealed he heard RDNA3 (and PS5) might have per CU clocks...?
Click to expand...
Didn't RedGamingTech leak this almost a month ago? He did say take it with "a truckload of salt".

Good 'ol Tom recycling already leaked info. Nothing new.

Dan_of_Rivia said:
RedGamingTech on the PS5's Ray-tracing:

"I'm also way less certain about this but I heard something about the ray-tracing aspect of the PS5's GPU, and I was told that it IS based on RDNA 2 much like the Xbox Series X but allegedly it's customised by Sony, I don't know the exact details here and I would take this with a truckload of salt, as this is not from a regular source....I was told it is based on RDNA 2 but the PS5 can run ray-tracing at different frequencies calculations when running RT, I don't have the architecture specifics, so I don't know if the RT cores themselves are decoupled or wether it's the CU or wether this is true at all, the only reason I have any faith in this rumour is that one of my more reliable sources hinted to me that specific CU of the PS5 could possibly operate at higher clock speeds and could basically be independent of the entire GPU".
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Dan_of_Rivia said:
No I don't think he's implying the GPU or CU's will go over 2.23 Ghz, but that if the GPU and CU's are not fully saturated or running at a clock speed of let's say 1.8 Ghz, then a specific CU(s) or RT core(s) can run at a higher clock up to 2.23 Ghz
Click to expand...
 
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Me browsing the likes of twitter from the guy number 17 which I am sure will he will swear not
to be a fanboy, then will say that he has all the consoles and a PC so he has no preference
for anything in particular, to finally say if you are not agree with him you are ponny or something.
giphy.gif

People if you want at least pretend not be bias at least try your social network not looks like
a politician in campaign.
 
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Gavin Stevens said:
I like how you quote certain pieces, but not the main ones, of what I said.

My original text:



What this meant is clearly at this time, we have no idea what is going on with Ps5, as it's RDNA feature set is yet to be confirmed. You same idiots have been taking about RDNA 3 for ages.



Come on guys, play the game here, use your heads. The number after isn't actually important. What it DOES, it's feature set, is what defines it. At this stage in time, we have absolutely nothing concrete on several prominent features, and as such, we can't compare to them.

I swear, you people love a little bit of controversy. PS5 could be RDNA 1, it could be RDNA 17.6. Who gives a shit What they call it. It can officially be called RDNA 2 without certain features, and this is what we need to know; what is missing, and what's been changed. Stop putting so much focus on the number, it doesn't actually matter.

Edit: as a side note, if Sony came out and said "yes, we are using RDNA 1.5", but the feature set of this was vastly superior to that of xboxes RDNA 2, would that be an issue? Or would you suddenly realise that that this is all pathetic and stop being complete and total tits? Just a thought.
Click to expand...


I'm aware of the context, but you clearly said I deal with facts and not rumors.

The facts we have now is that the PlayStation 5 is RDNA 2. Everything goes in the rumor\speculation category if we assume PS5 is not a full RDNA 2 because Sony hasn't revealed every feature of their PlayStation 5 architecture.
 
Bo_Hazem said:
Could be as well, I heard about the fan issues prior to mine, and followed the serial number that suggests the second wave of PS4 Pro. Always keep the room well cooled, and the console in a good space to breath. Open space is even better.
Click to expand...
Yes very important that. I take mine for morning walks to the park and let it loose to run wild take in the fresh air. Just gotta keep an eye on it doesn't go chasing squirrels or tries to get frisky with an Xbox...
 
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Hey guys, I'm a few pages behind, but after the DC show yesterday (8/22), I'd like to share some thoughts:

Neither Gotham Knights or Suicide Squad looked good to me. Arkham Knight, a 2015 game, looked better than the cartoony mess from WB Montreal. Who the hell the authorized the development of a RPG BATMAN GAME? Don't get me wrong, exploring Gotham City and controlling the "Batfamily" is a good concept on itself, but maybe it should've been more akin to Arkhamverse.

SS could turn out to be interesting (as we've only seen a CGI trailer), but I feel it'll be very similar to CD's Avengers - bland.

Lastly: oh God the cringe with the Will Arnett bits.

Spider-Man PS4 is not a perfect game, but damn, Insomniac/Sony are leaps and bounds ahead of anyone with their Superhero entry. The upcoming Miles Morales game already looks better than anything else shown so far (in the respective genre).
 
gojira96 said:
Hey guys, I'm a few pages behind, but after the DC show yesterday (8/22), I'd like to share some thoughts:

Neither Gotham Knights or Suicide Squad looked good to me. Arkham Knight, a 2015 game, looked better than the cartoony mess from WB Montreal. Who the hell the authorized the development of a RPG BATMAN GAME? Don't get me wrong, exploring Gotham City and controlling the "Batfamily" is a good concept on itself, but maybe it should've been more akin to Arkhamverse.

SS could turn out to be interesting (as we've only seen a CGI trailer), but I feel it'll be very similar to CD's Avengers - bland.

Lastly: oh God the cringe with the Will Arnett bits.

Spider-Man PS4 is not a perfect game, but damn, Insomniac/Sony are leaps and bounds ahead of anyone with their Superhero entry. The upcoming Miles Morales game already looks better than anything else shown so far (in the respective genre).
Click to expand...
Sony should do a AAAA Punisher. Give us a gritty, adult super hero tale. Especially important with seemingly others chasing GaaS with Fortnite / Overwatch aesthetic.
 
gojira96 said:
Hey guys, I'm a few pages behind, but after the DC show yesterday (8/22), I'd like to share some thoughts:

Neither Gotham Knights or Suicide Squad looked good to me. Arkham Knight, a 2015 game, looked better than the cartoony mess from WB Montreal. Who the hell the authorized the development of a RPG BATMAN GAME? Don't get me wrong, exploring Gotham City and controlling the "Batfamily" is a good concept on itself, but maybe it should've been more akin to Arkhamverse.

SS could turn out to be interesting (as we've only seen a CGI trailer), but I feel it'll be very similar to CD's Avengers - bland.

Lastly: oh God the cringe with the Will Arnett bits.

Spider-Man PS4 is not a perfect game, but damn, Insomniac/Sony are leaps and bounds ahead of anyone with their Superhero entry. The upcoming Miles Morales game already looks better than anything else shown so far (in the respective genre).
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure the SS trailer was an in-engine trailer. Not CGI. I highly doubt the gameplay will look that good but just to clear that up.
 
Shmunter said:
Sony should do a AAAA Punisher. Give us a gritty, adult super hero tale. Especially important with seemingly others chasing GaaS with Fortnite / Overwatch aesthetic.
Click to expand...
Agreed! Maybe also Daredevil, he is my favorite of Superheroes (I prefer more grounded stuff, not much sci-fi or mysticism, other genres do these better)
 
MasterCornholio said:
Honestly someone looked at this and said " Looks good enough to show off the XSXs capabilities".

halo-infinite-brute-community-director-news.jpg


I'm pretty sure Phil Spencer was keeping a close eye on this title since it's their biggest franchise and it was supposed to be a system seller at launch.

Phil knew just like he knew about Crackdown 3.

Edit: For comparison sake.

images

4e6fb316c121a7a7a5edfbbdbd47958a.jpg

latest
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Can anyone explain to me what the hell is going on here???

LdIugtt.jpg

Am I just a perv an it IS what I think it is... and even then I'm not sure what that is?!
 
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geordiemp said:
PS5:
4 x 2.23 GHz ~ 8.92 Billion triangles per second

XSX:
4 x 1.825 GHz - 7.3 Billion triangles per second

Triangle culling rate is twice number triangles rasterised per cycle.

PS5:
8 x 2.23 GHz - 17.84 Billion triangles per second

XSX:
8 x 1.825 GHz - 14.6 Billion triangles per second


PS5:
64 x 2.23 GHz - 142.72 Billion pixels per second

XSX:
64 x 1.825 GHz - 116.8 Billion pixels per second

PS5:
4 x 36 x 2.23 GHz - 321.12 Billion texels per second

XSX:
4 x 52 x 1.825 GHz - 379.6 Billion texels per second

PS5:
4 x 36 x 2.23 GHz - 321.12 Billion ray intersections per second

XSX:
4 x 52 x 1.825 GHz - 379.6 Billion Ray intersections per second

Then you have the customisations and efficiency savings in design....
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Stop this at once. You damn well know that the only thing that matters is that 12 > 10!
 
existensmaximum said:
Stop this at once. You damn well know that the only thing that matters is that 12 > 10!
Click to expand...

Why would he stop showing actual facts? These matter as much as the 12TF number. Xbox has definitely the "slight" or should I say "slightest" GPU advantage we have ever seen between competing consoles, but at the same time PS5 have the edges in some areas too, the more than double SSD speed, the above mentioned GPU stats, the consistent Ram...etc.
 
Aceofspades said:
Why would he stop showing actual facts? These matter as much as the 12TF number. Xbox has definitely the "slight" or should I say "slightest" GPU advantage we have ever seen between competing consoles, but at the same time PS5 have the edges in some areas too, the more than double SSD speed, the above mentioned GPU stats, the consistent Ram...etc.
Click to expand...
tenor.gif
 
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