Faithless83
Banned
Devs never love having to go around limitations. They'll NEED to develop for it, because publishers and money are a thing.
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Aranea
Member
Just rumors of course. Japan has listed the PS5 for a November 20 release date.
www.altchar.com
New PS5 leaks on Amazon Japan suggest November 20 release
If Sony do not announce some PlayStation 5 related events these days, we might get flooded by all the leaks happening lately, and the newest one says November too.
www.altchar.com
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Empire Strikes Back
Member
Pedro Motta
Gold Member
Who's co-worker? iOS game? What are you talking about?
Dibils2k
Member
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
OK I found it.. so that guy worked at 22 cans on their random crap games with the title "Game Designer" and you claim he was Peter M's right hand man at Lionhead for years?
LOL The guy is a writer, not a programmer or tech guy..
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Pedro Motta
Gold Member
It was never about holding back the Series X, it's about extra dev time, cost, and de-scope, like he mentioned.
kyliethicc
Member
This is similar to how a lot of devs were disapointed by the PS4 Pro and One X.
Lots of devs would rather there be fewer consoles to design for. Like how it used to be. Just 1 PS and 1 xbox.
Lots of devs would rather there be fewer consoles to design for. Like how it used to be. Just 1 PS and 1 xbox.
BlueXImpulse
Banned
We'll see how many more developers come out saying they are unhappy. It's 3 so far.
Mahavastu
Member
* Backwards compatibility, PS1-P3? Upscaling 4k/HDR? PS4 Boost mode?
* what PS4 games gets PS5 enhanced for free?
* list of launch titles, launch window with dates
ethomaz
Banned
If you have to de-scope your project then you are holding back.
Of course in a dream scenario if you have unlimited time and budget you can have two teams with two different scopes for S and X and make complete different games using the best of each features.
People needs to understand the project scope for a game on X is different from a game for S... working on both means you will be limited to the lower scope unless like I said you make another team only to work to add things on the stronger machine not possible on the weaker one.
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kyliethicc
Member
Sony is bringing back the 500 GB PS4 slim this fall... smart move to cut price.
I bet this bundle will be around $150 this fall.
I wonder what PS5 bundles there will be.
I bet this bundle will be around $150 this fall.
I wonder what PS5 bundles there will be.
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Pedro Motta
Gold Member
You're right, Was 22 cans not Lionhead, my mistake. Anyway, you guys tend to devalue people that don't work in AAA games, as if a studio head or game designer would notunderstand about game scopes.
Angel of BOOM!
Member
I'm not surprised. Anyone who thinks less (and slower) memory and less CUs in the Gfx processor is just going to affect resolution, is kidding themselves. These are fundamental part of the system and could have an affect on lots of different aspects of a game (poly count, shader quality, physics, lighting, full screen effects, etc.)
If - like MS - you're seeing hardware (inc. the XBsS and XBsX) within the big soup of PC hardware (from pretty weak to uber powerful) then - yeah - it makes perfect sense. However, for developers who are trying to maximise an embedded system's performance, it's less that ideal.
I say this now, if MS 1st-parties have to support XBsS as well as XBsX (they must do), then their titles will never reach the lofty heights that Sony's will (at least from a visual/technical perspective). The TLOU2-like moments where you think ("How did they possibly manage that with PS4 hardware?") will very much exist on PS5. I'm not so sure about XB.
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Empire Strikes Back
Member
This scenario is far gone. Cross gen have 5 different Xboxs and 3 different PlayStations...
Xbox One, Xbox One S, Xbox One X, Xbox Series X, Xbox Series S
PS4 (Slim), PS4 Pro, PS5
Am I counting the PS4 and PS4 Slim as the same because I can't remember if it had a spec bump like X1 and X1S. Point still stands, I guess.
LucidFlux
Member
There are so many variables beyond just what resolution the game is targeting (is it full fixed, dynamic on x/y or both axis, checkerboard, temporal injection, employ VRS?, etc) but at high resolutions (4k) and aiming for 60fps, most games are GPU bottle necked with plenty of breathing room left on the CPU. Of course this changes game by game, based on what they're doing specifically with physics, AI, multiplayer, etc. Games that are very simplistic graphically may hit a CPU bottleneck before a GPU one albeit at very high fps.
Now when games are optimized for their target resolution and FPS for consoles, ideally they are aiming to hit their FPS target (60) while under the most demanding scenes and gameplay scenarios. In practice a 60 fps console game could be outputting frames internally anywhere from 60-80 fps average during typical gameplay and only drop down close to 60 or even dip slightly below during those most demanding scenarios.
So if one system renders an average of 5fps higher than the other, then it has slightly more breathing room to stay at or above it's target during those most demanding scenarios. If both systems are consistently dipping below 60 then more graphical optimization is needed to bring that average up across the board.
Now that games are utilizing various techniques to render at slightly lower than native resolutions to preserve frame rates it's unlikely we'll see many fps drops on well optimized games between the two systems and instead it will come down to slight imperceivable differences in internal rendering resolution.
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Shmunter
Member
Who cares, what he said is basic and indisputable. Anyone with any semblance of rationale arrives to the same conclusions.
The reality is, can a game be designed to squeeze the maximum out of the XsX?....absolutely. Would this happened with reasonable consistency if XsX was the only system? yes. Will this still happen as consistently with XsS in the picture? No, time, money, budgets will ensure it doesn't.
Faithless83
Banned
Prediction time/tales from my ass:
In trying to undercut Sony in price, MS created another problem with XSS IMO:
MS will need to sell a shitton or the "less limitations box" will win devs over.
The I/O alone is likely to bring exclusive experiences to PS5 and Xbox will be on a weird (less capable "more capalble") spot.
In trying to undercut Sony in price, MS created another problem with XSS IMO:
MS will need to sell a shitton or the "less limitations box" will win devs over.
The I/O alone is likely to bring exclusive experiences to PS5 and Xbox will be on a weird (less capable "more capalble") spot.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
My point was some nobody doesn't need to back up what a senior tech person at Remedy says.
Then my point was to make fun of that guy for lying about this guy being Peter M's "right hand man at Lionhead" lol
My point wasn't that legit devs aren't concerned, but click that guys profile... if that person said something negative about PS5 you guys would be bashing him instead of lying about him being an infamous right hand to Peter Molyneux.
In the end I want to hear from devs who are actually working with these systems, and it's quite possible the Remedy guy is.. that random indie PS4 exclusive dev likely isn't.
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ethomaz
Banned
This.
Both PS4 Pro and Xbox One X never had games made to take fully advantage of them.
They were all limited to what Xbox One and PS4 can do.
Angel of BOOM!
Member
So it won't hold back games but will cost more (money is almost alway a factor when considering scope) but then goes on to say you'll have to de-scope a little bit. I'd argue de-scoping is hold back a game, no?
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DonJorginho
Banned
Luckily PS5 will not follow suit until they make another model like a Pro.
T4C Fantasy
Neo Member
The way FP32 is calculated is correct for non unified shaders, the 230 figure is correct.
The architecture is for sure different from the G70 chip. But the calculation remains the same.
- TechPowerUp GPU Database Editor
kyliethicc
Member
Nah slim is exact same spec.
But if you're making a next gen only game it could have been same as it was 15 years ago.
PS5, XSX, PC -2020
PS3, X360, PC - 2006
Cross gen is always like that, but soon if the mid-gen updates keep going there will be this many boxes to develop for in 2024.
PS5, PS5 Pro, XSS, XSX, XSSv2, XSXv2, + PC - 2024
instead of
PS3, X360, + PC - 2010
SportsFan581
Member
Is there even a $5 difference in manufacturing costs between a 500GB and 1TB spinner at this point (with single platter 2TB drives around)?
WhispersintheWind
Member
One of the greatest misconceptions peddled by some folks around here is that Sony marketing is geared mainly towards the US market:
Hate to break it to you America, but you're less important than you think you are!
I mean this is Fake News! America is Great...the greatest and everybody knows it! If they don't know it then too much Fake News!
kyliethicc
Member
No but why would you pay more for half the storage? It has to indicate a price cutIs there even a $5 difference in manufacturing costs between a 500GB and 1TB spinner at this point (with single platter 2TB drives around)?
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Not in manufacturing but those who sell the drives continue to sell based on value, not cost.Is there even a $5 difference in manufacturing costs between a 500GB and 1TB spinner at this point (with single platter 2TB drives around)?
Faithless83
Banned
US is the PCMR of the world.
Empire Strikes Back
Member
My prediction is:
Devs will look to their games in pre production and think "Can this downscale OK at the XSS?". If the answer is YES, then they'll just scale down to the XSS and be fine with it. If the answer is NO, then they'll focus on squeezing every last pixel from the XSS then scale up for other consoles.
Problem lies in answering this question wrong. If a dev think the game can scales down OK, but the game can't, they'll need to sink more money and time on making a decent version for XSS. Then as the generation goes and they are so fed up of missing the mark and doing more work on XSS, they'll simply limit themselves on game design not to run on this problem ever again.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Who said that? Right, no one... Don't be so insecureWhy is the velocity architecture not getting the memo to be 4 seconds? The experts here said VFS will make it faster than PS5??i m shocked
SportsFan581
Member
Certainly, but even at retail there is like a $20 difference. How much difference could there be with a decent wholesale contract?
With that said, I could see MS transitioning back to 500GB, just so the XSS doesn't have comparatively less storage. Crazy times. Come to think of it, relative drive size might be a motivating factor for PS as well.
kyliethicc
Member
I bet there are not even Series S devkits. Sounds like the Series X devkits will just have a mode to simulate the Series S.
Wonder how that will affect games developed for it
Wonder how that will affect games developed for it
jose4gg
Member
I think he means popular fanboys on Twitter, and those said it... but no experts.
Finem Orientis
Member
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Xbox is like a polished diamond, not some cubic zirconia that's just lying around everywhere. There is value in scarcity.
jose4gg
Member
Behind a kabinet.. out of sight . No joke , it's to extravagant in my living room. We have mostly black device's.
But on the flip side my Series X also won't be visible in sight .
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MasterCornholio
Member
Its coming. The only question is when.
Mod of War
Is there no way to ban their twitter URL from being able to be displayed on site? The amount of tweets from these guys linked is ridiculous.
Nah, the community can challenge any arguments they don't agree with.
Killer Sakoman
Member
Generally the GCC is a big market for many car manufacturers such as Toyota, GMC, Nissan, Ford, Honds.... Etc. Actually many of them survive on GCC.
yewles1
Member
Policenauts remake confirmed?do do do do-do-do
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Well if you are trying to hit a price point, and expect to sell millions.. every dollar saved is millions made.
That's why something like an "expensive cooling solution" that's actually $10 instead of $2 matters in this world. Multiply that by 50 million and you have real money.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Official Playstation Magazine
itsnotme
Member
Regarding PS5 pre orders and price if we use logic we can deduce that we're 100% getting something within the next couple of days, iirc vr week ends on Friday and Xbox pre-orders start on the 22nd so Sony should definitely have something between then and now to try and convince the last people on the fence to get their console.
Then again logic doesn't work with Sony://
Then again logic doesn't work with Sony://
T4C Fantasy
Neo Member
the 90nm chip which is first gen was clocked at 500mhz for the GPU, they increased the clock for newer revisions
I don't remember where the 230GFLOPs figure came from that entry was from 2012ish information was still very incomplete from then
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
It's the same here, priced at ~35,000 OMR ($101,000 USD) for VXE model, same price goes to Nissan Patrol LE, both with their variants dominate the roads. But because offroad is still relevant here, although streets stretch nearly everywhere.
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