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[Hawking Radiation]

Its not hate. Name a single game he has made. I m waiting

He has not made a game . Thats a factual statement

Lol so why the fuck was this thread created then?
The forum is Sometime a dumpster fire with FUD and misinformation everywhere. The mods need to get control over this.

 

[Drewpee]

Mate, the shit goes both ways.
I love how everytime this topic gets brought up, the Xbox fans play the victims or get defended when they are guilty of the same shit.

There are examples of rabid Xbox fanboyism everywhere. I don't need to point out to you examples. Search through this forum and other social media platforms and you will find they are equally as toxic.

And they are equally toxic and ignorant, Im not here to defend any fan that behaves that way. My comment is geared toward Neogaf specifically and how insane the bias is here toward Sony.

I 100% believe that if Xbox was more popular we would see many more Xbox trolls. Its not that I think Sony fans are worse in some way, but here on Neogaf it is extremely apparent.

 

[Reindeer]

They could always just not include the incredible graphics fidelity settings on the series s version.

Also, while not ideal 900p is a big reduction from 1440p (2.56 times), so that and small reductions in some other settings really could solve the issue of any games that are only 1440p series x.

The problem would be large scale games that need a lot of data to be interchanged with Ram. A game like that would be bottlenecked by lower and slower Series S Ram. Game design would definitely be effected and devs would have to scale down their vision and this is driving most of the concern by devs talking about too little Ram.

 

[Business]

what sad is from what i see at here and various place out there like social media, lot of people simply label these developers as 'lazy' and stuff.

'Lazy' and add 'clueless' and 'shills' for the competition. Luckily we have our local shithead console warriors computer science wizards here to enlight and educate the rest of us on the difficult technical matters.

 

[Fake]

Lol so why the fuck was this thread created then?

Figures...

 

[Three]

Neither has 99.99999999999% of the posters here who post concern trolling threads about Xbox holding back the generation.

Yet here they are calling concern trolling when devs at id, and remedy say something negative with counters from none other than Odium and KirbyLouise who have nothing to their name.

 

[Redlight]

From one of his tweets:

'NeoGaf has some really great people. Decent folk who just enjoy gaming.

It also has some complete tools, and can be home to some of the most toxic fanboy bullshit I've ever seen who will turn anything you say against you if even blink badly towards Sony.

Absolutely pathetic.,

And there is more in his Twitter feed. Always lambasting Sony fans. Never Xbox or both camps for being toxic. It's only the Sony camp that is.

So really, who is this guy?
He doesn't even have devkits and he admits these are just educated guesses lol. The fuck? Is he a member here on Neogaf cause I came across a few tweets where he has a go at Gaf as well including the above tweet.

Isn't truth a defence in most defamation claims?

 

[MilkLizard]

All those XBoxes making people nervous af it seems

 

[ManaByte]

All those XBoxes making people nervous af it seems

$299 for a next-gen entry point seriously scares some people. I wonder why?

 

[GHG]

Neither has 99.99999999999% of the posters here who post concern trolling threads about Xbox holding back the generation.

Yeh everyone is just concern trolling.













It's a shame that much of what the rational posters on here have been saying has already been backed up.

It's like some people learnt nothing from the run up to the Halo Infinite demo when people were running around the place saying held back is just a "meme". If only it was just a meme.

 

[FeiRR]

Gavin Stevens isn't a developer. His studio is made up and doesn't exist. He also likes to seek attention.

 

[AlexxKidd]

When you're bringing out this guy to defend Microsoft, you've hit the bottom of the barrel.

 

[Vroadstar]

$299 for a next-gen entry point seriously scares some people. I wonder why?

The goal has moved, sales starting to matter again. I wonder why?

 

[Agnostic2020]

Neither has 99.99999999999% of the posters here who post concern trolling threads about Xbox holding back the generation.

Wtf ? We have comments from lead programmer at ID ,Remedy and Activision all expressing concerns .

Who cares about what we think ?

 

[MilkLizard]

$299 for a next-gen entry point seriously scares some people. I wonder why?

Tell us. Because I seriously have no idea?

 

[MiguelItUp]

Of course it won't. It's up to the devs and pubs to provide the best outcome they possibly can on both models. The dev, the publisher, and the project at hand are all variables of course. But to say it's being held back is ridiculous.

This "drama" has already been blown out of proportion. It feels like there are so many threads about it.

 

[geordiemp]

In a lengthy thread over on Twitter, Stevens (Co-owner/Design Lead at Indie Studio TeamBlurGames) explained why Series S won't hold back next-gen gaming in any way. He states that despite having less raw GPU power, the console is still packed with a ton of features that will help push games to the max.

"When you add in all the other areas of improvement that the XSX has, such as sampler feedback streaming, IO improvements, faster memory, ray tracing capability etc, the XSS eats the past gen X1X alive, and it really is no contest," he wrote in one of this tweets.

"4K rendering is expensive. It comes with a lot of trade-offs for decent perf and rarely do we get games on the current generation that are 4k/60. It's a mammoth task in terms of raw GPU power and the games that push this are usually graphically simple in rendering," Stevens explained.

"But a game that is targeting much lower resolution? Do the math. It requires MUCH less GPU power devoted to resolution alone. Of course, rendering at a lower resolution will also mean other visual effects are cheaper to render, too."

There's a lot more stuff in the Twitter thread below.

Xbox Series S won't hold back next-gen gaming, dev says

TeamBlurGames Design Lead Gavin Stevens has offered his opinion on the recently announced Xbox Series S, a less powerful but cheaper next-gen console from Microsoft. He claims that Series S won't hold back next-gen game development in any way.

www.altchar.com

Can we get a quote from a developer of games , this guy has never made, nor will ever make a game. He is a quake modder.

 

[Jon Neu]

They might not care about the specs that much, but they still expect to see a pleasant experience when turning on the machine, so you can't just throw away everything. It has to be as close to the other versions as possible.

It's going to be a pleasant experience at 3 or 4 times less resolution and maybe with less effects.

You know you're getting a less powerful machine so you should expect compromises. That's it.

 

[quest]

Yeh everyone is just concern trolling.













It's a shame that much of what the rational posters on here have been saying has already been backed up.

It's like some people learnt nothing from the run up to the Halo Infinite demo when people were running around the place saying held back is just a "meme". If only it was just a meme.

They guy with out kits stirring the pot. That is what you all acuse gavin of right?

 

[GHG]

They guy with out kits stirring the pot. That is what you all acuse gavin of right?

Remove him from the discussion then, it's not important. There's more than enough being discussed by other people who do have dev kits.

 

[ethomaz]

Odion with zero experience in gaming development.

vs

Seniors engineers at Remedy, ID, Activision, UbiSoft, etc..

Spoiler

It is will be fun to read the Odion FUD again.
Funny he blocked me again after I said he unblocked me for no reason yesterday lol he is reading all the people spreading his FUD

 

[ManaByte]

They guy with out kits stirring the pot. That is what you all acuse gavin of right?

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Gavin Stevens isn't a developer. His studio is made up and doesn't exist. He also likes to seek attention.

Jesus Christ he is not a developer?
So why OP label him as one? Thread title needs to change then isn't it?

I'd be very surprised if this thread is still open tomorrow morning.

 

[GHG]

Care to address the rest?

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

...after releasing one of the most buggy games this gen on consoles which even now isn't fully functional.

I assume you're talking about Control which is odd cause I got the platinum for it. It wasn't the best performing game but it wasn't this non functioning game you're speaking of. I cant imagine experiences would be that different between players since consoles are closed off static hardware.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Lol, where do you find this bottom of the barrel "developer"?

NeoGaf

 

[Vroadstar]

When you're bringing out this guy to defend Microsoft, you've hit the bottom of the barrel.

Just look at the people defending the so called "dev" with not a single game under his belt and comparing him to ID, Remedy devs. Desperate times indeed.

 

[Redlight]

Yeah, let's ignore experts at id Software, Remedy and Infinity Ward and take a word of indie developer who hasn't got a dev kit, lol. Also, wasn't this guy always defending Xbox on this forum?

It's hard not to end up defending Xbox on this site if you are even vaguely even-handed (and naturally argumentative ). I'm considered 100% pro-Xbox on Gaf but it's mostly because I can't ignore some of crazy comments made by the most extreme Sony fans.

It's not the majority of Sony fans, not even close, but Sony fans overall vastly outweigh Xbox, PC and Nintendo fans here, so it's not surprising that the number of rabid extremists is also proportionately high. If your a Sony fan you probably don't even notice it.

I think I might've become a bit blind to the worst Xbox fanboys over my time on Gaf. The truth is that we'd all be better off if we call out the worst bullshit from any particular faction.

That said, I've never seen an obnoxious Nintendo fan on here. Maybe we've all got something to learn.

 

[Flintty]

From one of his tweets:

'NeoGaf has some really great people. Decent folk who just enjoy gaming.

It also has some complete tools, and can be home to some of the most toxic fanboy bullshit I've ever seen who will turn anything you say against you if even blink badly towards Sony.

Absolutely pathetic.,

And there is more in his Twitter feed. Always lambasting Sony fans. Never Xbox or both camps for being toxic. It's only the Sony camp that is.

So really, who is this guy?
He doesn't even have devkits and he admits these are just educated guesses lol. The fuck? Is he a member here on Neogaf cause I came across a few tweets where he has a go at Gaf as well including the above tweet.

Well he is right and we all know who the tools are here. I'd welcome him back here over any of them.

 

[BlueXImpulse]

I was waiting for Gav Odium's take.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Why is there a discussion about XSS holding back XSX?

Unless you make two completely separate games, the lowest common denominator will hold back the top flight consoles from reaching the stars.

We are all old enough to remember "can it run crysis", right?

 

[Jon Neu]

He was banned on ERA saying similar crap

That Matt dude from ERA has said a similar thing and he hasn't been banned.

 

[Connificent]

 

[AlexxKidd]

They guy with out kits stirring the pot. That is what you all acuse gavin of right?

What's your excuse for the devs who do have kits? And even if that guy doesn't have one, he's the senior gameplay programmer
at Squanch Games, makers of Trover Saves the Universe.

Gavin is the senior cashier assistant at Walmart. But you keep defending, it's cute.

 

[VincentMatts]

It's hard not to end up defending Xbox on this site if you are even vaguely even-handed (and naturally argumentative ). I'm considered 100% pro-Xbox on Gaf but it's mostly because I can't ignore some of crazy comments made by the most extreme Sony fans.

It's not the majority of Sony fans, not even close, but Sony fans overall vastly outweigh Xbox, PC and Nintendo fans here, so it's not surprising that the number of rabid extremists is also proportionately high. If your a Sony fan you probably don't even notice it.

I think I might've become a bit blind to the worst Xbox fanboys over my time on Gaf. The truth is that we'd all be better off if we call out the worst bullshit from any particular faction.

That said, I've never seen an obnoxious Nintendo fan on here. Maybe we've all got something to learn.

Ive honestly never experienced this much hate for an xbox product. Even with xbox one, it wasnt this bad mostly because sony fans didnt care then cause they had the better HW for most the gen. 3rd party games ran better there too. They had nothing to complain about.

But now that they dont have the better HW, suddenly they care a lot about what the competition is doing. Funny how that works. Lets call it what it really is: fear.

 

[Dodkrake]

Is this shit for real? A Fake dev says it won't hold back next-gen development, it's news, but ID software dev saying it will is not? My god, just tired of the run to this gen.

 

[Dunnas]

Yeh everyone is just concern trolling.













It's a shame that much of what the rational posters on here have been saying has already been backed up.

It's like some people learnt nothing from the run up to the Halo Infinite demo when people were running around the place saying held back is just a "meme". If only it was just a meme.

The problem is it is being backed up by people that talk about things like split memory being an issue when clearly the slower pool is 100% for the OS, or that compare the amount of ram to current gen consoles without factoring any benefit of the SSD or SFS that combined will have an impact on the effective available ram. even if the SFS savings stated by MS are highly optimistic best case scenarios.

 

[lukilladog]

If some dev wanted to make a 1080p game on series X in order to maximize GFX and take visuals to the next level, he probably wont do it now because the SeriesS version would look like a blurry mess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[VincentMatts]

What about actual devs like id software engine devs?

You mean like Dice, who have no problems with it?

Dice make some of the most demanding games out there period. If they can make it work, the others can too.

 

[Wina]

Is this shit for real? A Fake dev says it won't hold back next-gen development, it's news, but ID software dev saying it will is not? My god, just tired of the run to this gen.

Even if hes not a real dev, its obvious that XSS will have a hard time. X1X has similar power and the only way this will work is setting the standarts at XSS level. Sounds like a permanent cross-gen BUT microsoft cant stop the support to XSX because they said that the experience will be the same.

 

[Azurro]

It's going to be a pleasant experience at 3 or 4 times less resolution and maybe with less effects.

You know you're getting a less powerful machine so you should expect compromises. That's it.

I'm afraid it's a lot more complicated than that. If it was a matter of setting a profile for Series X with parameter: 4K and one for Series S with parameter: FULLHD, then no developer would be complaining.

You have to tailor every single texture to it, make sure whatever features you implement fit in the smaller RAM, make sure your performance doesn't die in the weaker system.

It's a lot more headaches and the devs have to make sure it's a nice experience for the end user. You can't just give them something that barely works and tell them to get a Series X.

I think what you don't understand is this: The Series S is MS's next gen console, the X Is basically just the mid gen refresh but at launch, all the games will be done with the Series S as a baseline. There is no "porting down", this is it.

 

[Shrap]

Ive honestly never experienced this much hate for an xbox product. Even with xbox one, it wasnt this bad mostly because sony fans didnt care then cause they had the better HW for most the gen. 3rd party games ran better there too. They had nothing to complain about.

But now that they dont have the better HW, suddenly they care a lot about what the competition is doing. Funny how that works. Lets call it what it really is: fear.

I disagree completely. I don't think I've seen anyone hating on the Series X as a piece of hardware - it's excellent all around. Which is what makes the Series S all the more frustrating.

 

[quest]

Just look at the people defending the so called "dev" with not a single game under his belt and comparing him to ID, Remedy devs. Desperate times indeed.

The guy at remedy should get lessons from the guys doing cross fire X down the hall. They seem to be managing just fine maybe he can learn some things.

 

[Agnostic2020]

That Matt dude from ERA has said a similar thing and he hasn't been banned.

Cause he is an actual dev and people know him from gaf since 17 years ago ?

Odium has NOT made a single game or have dev kits. Matt has done both

 

[Redlancet]

You have devs from triple aaa studios having concerns but gavin who knows better, sure

 

[Jon Neu]

If some dev wanted to make a 1080p game on series X in order to maximize GFX and take visuals to the next level, he probably wont do it now because the SeriesS version would look like a blurry mess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Doing a 1080p game in the gen of the 4K would be kind of defeating the point. But why stop at 1080p anyways? You know the kind of games they could make at 480 upscaled to 720p? CGI stuff I'm telling you.

And still, they can make a Series X game at 1080p if they want it and port it to the Series S at 720p upscaled to 1080p. Problem solved.

 

[Reindeer]

I'm afraid it's a lot more complicated than that. If it was a matter of setting a profile for Series X with parameter: 4K and one for Series S with parameter: FULLHD, then no developer would be complaining.

You have to tailor every single texture to it, make sure whatever features you implement fit in the smaller RAM, make sure your performance doesn't die in the weaker system.

It's a lot more headaches and the devs have to make sure it's a nice experience for the end user. You can't just give them something that barely works and tell them to get a Series X. This is MS's next gen console, the X Is the mid gen refresh, all the games will be done with the Series S as a baseline.

I can see 30fps becoming common on Series S as time goes on, it's one effective way to take off strain from resources.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I agree XSS will not hold back XSX, but what Gavin Stevens has said in regards to XSS GPU power is just wishful thinking. MS has said they would never design a console taking architecture gains into account (because in the early stages of design architecture gains are unknown), but even if we take RDNA 25% gains it's still not enough to match 6TF polaris X1X.

Technically true. However, the current-gen systems, even PS4 Pro and Xbox One X, weren't particularly great with utilizing their theoretical peaks. That's one of the biggest things AMD focused on transitioning from GCN to Navi.

So while on paper, even with architectural gains Series S might not match the One X's theoretical peak, in terms of actual utilization I can easily see it at least matching One X, if not surpassing One X's real-case peaks since RDNA2 as an architecture shits all over what the current-gen systems have.

Wait for it...

Yeah it's kinda funny when people dismiss one dev over another for preferential reasons. At least hear out what the dev is saying and acknowledge they may have a valid perspective, even if two of them come to opposing viewpoints.

 

[quest]

Doing a 1080p game in the gen of the 4K would be kind of defeating the point. But why stop at 1080p anyways? You know the kind of games they could make at 480 upscaled to 720p? CGI stuff I'm telling you.

And still, they can make a Series X game at 1080p if they want it and port it to the Series S at 720p upscaled to 1080p. Problem solved.

It is funny we never hear in 2013 how about if a developer wants to do 640x480p game lol. The concern trolling is off the charts.

 

[Jon Neu]

I think what you don't understand is this: The Series S is MS's next gen console, the X Is basically just the mid gen refresh but at launch, all the games will be done with the Series S as a baseline. There is no "porting down", this is it.

Again, the Xbox dev said games are going to be made to the Series X and then ported to the Series S.

If there are devs lazy and cheap enough to not want to deal with that policy, then nothing will be lost, because they weren't going to set any impressive technical perfomance anyway.

The console is fine. The ports are going to be fine.