Physiognomonics
Member
This is Matt at Reee. He is confirming Lockhart will be the new baseline for next-gen.
What is it about the Xbox Series S that worries developers?
- Thread starter BlueXImpulse
- Start date
GHG
Member
You mean like Dice, who have no problems with it?
Dice make some of the most demanding games out there period. If they can make it work, the others can too.
QA at DIce:
Angel Kavazov - MobyGames
Game credits, biography, portraits and other game industry information for Angel Kavazov - MobyGames
www.mobygames.com
SebastianM
Member
I get the point with XSS, I really do, but imagine this future scenario when late in the gen devs are neck deep in shit with -by then- xsx's and ps5's eventually outdated specs, using lower resolution, reconstruction techniques and variable 30fps to achieve their goal, AND THEN on top of that optimize to make it run on this weak ass box.
They could've easily dropped xbox one x price to make the transition into next-gen smoother, but unless they drop support for this down the line, they've held 3rd parties back for the entire gen.
They could've easily dropped xbox one x price to make the transition into next-gen smoother, but unless they drop support for this down the line, they've held 3rd parties back for the entire gen.
Yes they totally could lose 250-300 dollars a console. Great way to keep the lights on for the division. I know they can only play on Sony's terms be mini clone of Sony. That has worked out great for everyone who tried that game before them. Why should it matter according to this place sony will out sell them 20 to 1 so they won't get support anyways. Worried about nothing!
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geordiemp
Member
My conspiracy theory is MS new the XSS RAM limitation as it would force devs to make lower res games at faster frame rates to accomodate streaming 4 instances of xb1 s games on Xcloud.
So MS need 900p to 1080p low texture downscaled games for the online future. If everything had high quality texture packs it would not work is my guess (and its logical) ?
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SebastianM
Member
250-300 dollars? da fuq? yet you didn't discuss my initial points, i'm not pro Sony by any means, I know the crowd this box is targeted towards; FIFA and F2P guys can't and won't tell the difference between native or upscaled content on their low end uncalibrated 4k set, they don't read gaming news either, I'm aware of that.
I just don't see how it's beneficial in the long run, games will have to be developed under that 8GBs of ram requirement, you can't tell me with a straight face that it won't impact future development lmao.
Craig of War
Banned
some of devs that express concern is those who work with game like Doom Eternal and even Remedy studio.
if you want to judge them not based on their knowledge and experience but based on what kind of games their made, then to be fair on similliar point of view people also could said similliar stuff to MS for making this kind of game
I would not put too much into what they say and take it as actual fact when some of their AAA games look like this even if it run at 60 or 120fps on 'next gen' hardware.
Don't compare Halo Beta gameplay which is still 4k 60fps to that dolphin game that look like it can run on a PS2 lol bad comparison.
Grinchy
Banned
Anyone with half a brain knew it was true the second the S was rumored to exist.
Sell the series x at 299.99 yes that is 250-300 dollars lost a unit. Until they quit developing for toaster level PCs it won't hold shit back. We have no idea on the tools Microsoft is providing or expectations maybe 75% of series x at 1080p is good. Until I see it not going to worry.
Phrixotrichus
Banned
Nonsense.
Aside from a small indie game here and there not a single game released for consoles ever considers low specced PCs as a primary development target. The scope is decided by the smallest common standardized denominator...the XSS now.
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I think the original Series S info release was meant to be next week? There's probably developer videos and other materials that they're saving for coordinated release.
Kumomeme
Member
Well Rachet and Clank also alpha footage and it look way better. I would not put too much into what they say and take it as actual fact when their AAA games look like this even if it run at 60 or 120fps. Some kid nowdays probably call it ps2 game
Matt is a Sony man through and through. Working in an industry does not imply objectivity, probably quite the opposite.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
So basically what we already know. None of these fools spouting "concern" even have dev kits.
No I'm guessing he will be on with major Nelson to talk about the issue since he actually has hands on with series x to s scaling. I am betting we see a few developers who actually done it interviewed.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
I expect most Gamepass subscribers to stop buying new games, because they expect/hope that the games they would like to play will end up on that service one day. The more new games are added to Gamepass, the less incentive subscribers will have to buy a game on Day One. Publishers should stay the hell away from it.
I expect gamers on the PS5 to skip 3rd party games since they don't match the quality of Sony games. It will be doom for the industry. See two can play the concern troll game. Neither will happen gamespass players will still buy games to supplement it. People will still buy 3rd party games on the PS5.
Craig of War
Banned
You think your real smart huh what does Rachet and Clank have to do with any of this we were talking bout indie devs talking out of their ass wile you bring up Halo and now Rachet and Clank lol your being real silly.Well Rachet and Clank also alpha footage and it look way better. I would not put too much into what they say and take it as actual fact when their AAA games look like this even if it run at 60 or 120fps. Some kid nowdays probably call it ps2 game
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Shmunter
Member
Saving grace may be the high watermark set by PS5. PS5 as the target may save XsX, and next gen in general.
Shmunter
Member
Fucking Microsoft . So disappointing, so deflating. Why couldn't they just do a digital XsX and let next gen breathe.
It's clear, XsS is there to be a target for xcloud server racks that will be streaming to 5" phone screens. That's why we are in this predicament.
As much as I hate what it means for competition, Microsoft must fail for the betterment of gamers.
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Knitted Knight
Banned
Principal programmers at ID or devs at Infinity Ward somehow are fools, don't have dev kits etc (neutral, big third party devs of AAA titles?)...... y'all are setting yourselves up. But when it comes to Xbox there is no low the damage control machine will reach. We gonna have walk backs for calling these devs like that when NDA's drop? Bet you not...... bet you we gonna have long ass silence and move into the next damage control talking point.
And mind you, devs hold a lot of comments back because they don't want to burn bridges, and know they can get in trouble if they don't chose their words wisely when saying the truth. So when they're whispering so explicitly, shit is that bad. This is what happens when marketing department BS. is taken as gospel. "There won't be a problem at all" "Scaling will be easy - nothing will be held back' "Everything will be a dream etc." "Mic drops in July" ......
All of this damage control for what? Cause you're too invested in the Xbox brand on a personal level so you fear its failure? Let that shit live or die by its merits. We have a console manufacturer releasing 2 consoles without a big 1st party exclusive to showcase the need to upgrade and differentiate from the competiton. When has this shit been acceptable? The crazyness has to stop. Don't reward low effort and incompetence, much less defend them when criticized rightfully.
And mind you, devs hold a lot of comments back because they don't want to burn bridges, and know they can get in trouble if they don't chose their words wisely when saying the truth. So when they're whispering so explicitly, shit is that bad. This is what happens when marketing department BS. is taken as gospel. "There won't be a problem at all" "Scaling will be easy - nothing will be held back' "Everything will be a dream etc." "Mic drops in July" ......
All of this damage control for what? Cause you're too invested in the Xbox brand on a personal level so you fear its failure? Let that shit live or die by its merits. We have a console manufacturer releasing 2 consoles without a big 1st party exclusive to showcase the need to upgrade and differentiate from the competiton. When has this shit been acceptable? The crazyness has to stop. Don't reward low effort and incompetence, much less defend them when criticized rightfully.
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Team Andromeda
Member
I grew up in an era when id didn't even bother to work on any console version of their games In-House, well unless you induced the Jaguar. I remember id saying DVD wasn't enough for RAGE and it might have to drop the game for the 360. In the end id found a way and that's what developers do. I don't have to look far to see how PC games can scale. I can play the same game on my old i3 laptop with 6 GB of Ram and then on my Ryzen 7 PC with 16B of Ram and I expect that to be the game for the Series S. Was Microsoft Flight Sim held back by it needing just 8 GB?
Of course the Series S games aren't going to look as good and I doubt many will push a screen res of above 1080p but for £250 one can't complain
Physiognomonics
Member
Actually it could be a bit more partial to Xbox. Xbox one X was his multiplatform machine and he already decided that Xbox Series X will be his multiplatform machine for next gen.
Armorian
Banned
Well Rachet and Clank also alpha footage and it look way better. I would not put too much into what they say and take it as actual fact when their AAA games look like this even if it run at 60 or 120fps. Some kid nowdays probably call it ps2 game
PS5 devs can use over 13GB of memory for ANYTHING, CPU and GPU stuff. This difference will be seen much more than some ~20% GPU difference in world od dynamic resolutions and upscaling techniques. Sony exclusives are still going to be the best looking console games.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Anyone not happy about the XSS and stating what was plainly obvious ( min specs matter, they affect and hold back faster HW) has been called a liar, a biased Sony fan, etc... (we have principal developers of some of the best engines on the planet spelling it out, nope we go scouring for the lone indie dev which is less negative) this is like a cult.
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Lazy devs is back! No it's business. If the series S severely outsells the series X a lot of devs will not put in effort for things only a series X can do then scale down because it isn't worth it. What's the point in spending some large amount of your dev budget on things only a fraction of your users will pay money for.
The reason you are seeing some switch ports is because the switch is popular. It outsold all xbox ones combined so they invested in creating a late port and hope to get some return.
Sorc3r3r
Member
Can you link the exact post?
Sorc3r3r
Member
Found it.
WTF, MS actually is trying to cripple an entire generation for real.
Impressive.
Jon Neu
Banned
You know what else is business? Keeping MS happy. And that means follow their guidelines and program for the Series X and then downport for the Series S.
You know, that console that is not targeted for the enthusiast market and that it will not matter that much if it has compromises.
Jon Neu
Banned
The same Matt from Reee that has said that people believing that the Series S is going to hinder all next gen are deluded?
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You think devs are MS' bitch? Cool.
Devs would do what is best for them and MS has not mandated a downport.
vdopey
Member
All I can really say is:
I mean if they cant accept that xss will have negative impact on microsofts own 1st party offering, never mind third party so be it, we already saw the issues with halo infinite.
Ultimately games sell consoles, once the first party titles come out all of this bickering will end, its going to be blatant what is better.
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This is fine though. Same CPU, same SSD. Set your baseline to 1080p 60 and then the Series X will do the same at 4k
This would be an issue if the Series S had a worse CPU or no SSD but because those components are the same it means devs don't have to worry about the CPU or SSD in the weaker console causing bottlenecks. Even the smaller ram amount is fine as devs will just tune textures to the output resolution where 1080p can work fine with smaller texture files.
Shmunter
Member
supernova8
Banned
It'll hold back Xbox first party titles but it won't hold back PS5 first party titles. Surely that's all PS5 would-be purchasers need to know.
If PS5 pulls ahead then PS5 will become the target device, XSX will get a roughly equivalent version and then XSS will be dropped down, possibly even below native 1440p and then upscaled back up.
The only shitty situation is if the XSS sells gangbusters and the development community ends up spending more time making sure that side of things is a better experience.
In other words, I sincerely hope that the XSS doesn't sell very well.
If PS5 pulls ahead then PS5 will become the target device, XSX will get a roughly equivalent version and then XSS will be dropped down, possibly even below native 1440p and then upscaled back up.
The only shitty situation is if the XSS sells gangbusters and the development community ends up spending more time making sure that side of things is a better experience.
In other words, I sincerely hope that the XSS doesn't sell very well.
vdopey
Member
you are completely on point, completely agree.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
I said it before and I'll say it again: casuals don't buy consoles at launch. The sales always peak in year 3. By then the systems will be at a more casual friendly $€399 with a game library to entice them.
There is absolutely no problem with launching at $€499- the hardcore gamer crowd will run into Mediamarkt regardless.
I see no reason why next gen consoles suddenly need to be $€299.
Azurro
Banned
Again, you don't understand how the development world works. Projects will target Series S and scale up, much less risky that way. It's not about keeping MS happy, it's about getting a project out of the door.
genesisblock
Member
Exactly what I feared the Series S that would be. People have incredible expectations if they would believe 4k/60fps would be a "standard" for next-gen. This is the same for 1080p back in the PS3 era and 4k for the PS4 Pro this gen. It's nothing more than a ballpark estimatation for "applicable" games and nowhere near practical for a AAA title.
To think that you can justify such arbitrary standard that the Series S can take because every game could be expected to run at 4k AND 60FPS simultaneously shows only how impractical this scenario can be as a norm.
MS truly fucked up at this point, they've already established they have the most powerful console this gen but they've completely made that redundant with the presence of the series S.
I can't believe they've made another Kinect scenario this gen. They should've gone all next-gen like Sony.
Jon Neu
Banned
Again, you still ignore what MS has said (seems you know more about development than MS) and you still keep ignoring that what MS wants developers to do has been done all the motherfucking time (and it will continue to be done).
Much more complicated projects have come out of the door, so you can keep your concern trolling in check.
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Jon Neu
Banned
No, it wont.
It's actually multis with cheap third party devs the ones at risk of being held back. But multis aren't the best graphical games anyway.
First party devs are going to program for the X and then downport for the S.
I find the prospect of the entire generation being held back across both systems (with third party games on PS5) because of the SS.
I want a nice clear generational difference. I want to see devs creativity unleashed with the massive increase in power since the 8th started.
I'm way more with Sony on this. With the PS5 you're getting the next generation vision clearly. It's not muddled up by two consoles with different power levels.
I want a nice clear generational difference. I want to see devs creativity unleashed with the massive increase in power since the 8th started.
I'm way more with Sony on this. With the PS5 you're getting the next generation vision clearly. It's not muddled up by two consoles with different power levels.
It's really frustrating isn't it?
We ballsed up last gen with a underpowered console with a white elephant gimmick and bad strategy.
This gen we're going to have the most power and ditch expensive Kinect gimmick (plus buy loads of studios etc). Our console is a beast.
Except....its development floor will be that of a much weaker second console we're bringing out. Whoops.
This is better for consumers in some ways but Sony's strategy is much better for the medium of games and for the industry (clear Dev floor, lots of power).
